• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Passing Cone Discussion (because it deserves it's own topic)

DJ_Tet

Banned
Hey guys,

I just wanted to start some in-depth passing cone discussion in here. I personally think it's the biggest addition to Madden since at least the Hit Stick, and is arguably 10x the addition to the series. I'd love to hear everyone's opinions and strategys involved in using the cone, or even reasons why you don't use the cone.

For starters, most of the benefits of using the cone become apparent only against another human. I have noticed that the CPU will occasionally pass outside their cone (not often), and the same accuracy penalties seem to apply. However, the strategy of the cone is only readily apparent against another human. Even then, you have to have a good understanding of football and video football, and plays which haven't worked in the past.

In past years, draws and delays were basically useless against an opponent. The occasional surprise was massively offset by the lost yards, sacks before handoffs, and risks of fumbles. The passing cone helps draws tremendously however. The cone by default highlights the middle of the field, giving the strong illusion of pass. If you are used to starting locked into a receiver, you can change that too in your pre-snap drills. So if your opponent is playing LB and you want to draw right at him, perhaps sent a TE out into the flat and lock into him. The camera pulls back just like a regular pass play, your opponent reads your eyes, and boom(tm), draw play right into an open hole. Not only have you busted a run right up the gut, you've demoralized your opponent.

Play-action too has seen a big boost with the passing cones. In years past, PA was often blown up, and when PA gets blown up, it's ugly. We're talking 10 yard losses, backwards fumbles resulting in TDs, and injured QBs. Madden had attempted to fix this by hiding the passing icons for a bit, and it helped. However (in combination with a stronger running game), the cone has opened up PA tremendously. If your opponent is a blitzer (I know it's outlawed in the GA league to some extent), he is almost forced to respect the run. PA's in general are designed to suck overly aggressive D-linemen and middle linebackers in, and when it works your time to throw opens up. Although a CPU blitzer doesn't always fall for the PA (and as well he shouldn't), the aggressive human opponent often can't help himself in battle from hit-sticking the RB and hoping for a fumble. Meanwhile the CPU safetys bite and you're going 60 yards to the house.

If you understand the game of football, you know how crucial draws and PA plays can be to keeping a defense honest. However, the cone doesn't only help on the offensive side of the ball. It allows you into your opponent's head. Repeated plays are that much easier to spot, due to his cone movement. You can tell how many reads your opponent is making, how quick he is making them, and his overall skill. A truly skilled player will start "looking off" human safetys and LB's, trying to get a human defensive player out of position. This is what real QB's do people. And what real safetys do for that matter.

Some other small niggling complaints about the series have been addressed too, and many of them seem to have been made with the 2k crowd in mind actually. For years they have claimed that the speed of their series and the split second reads required for completions has made them feel "more like a QB." They hated Madden for it's ability to run 10 yards backwards and chuck it 40 yards downfield off their back foot. I want them to try that this year. First, if your cone isn't on the receiver, you can't put touch or direct the pass. Second, there are catching and accuracy penalties on the throw if they aren't in the cone. Third, if your feet aren't set, your pass isn't going 40 yards accurately, cone or not. Madden has improved the QB scrambling while making it more essential to throw from a good base.

Another praise of the 2k crowd was the simplified control scheme from offense to defense, i.e. speedburst is the same button on both sides of the ball. Well, to the dismay of some Madden diehards, the controls are subtley, but vastly different. Speed is the same button on both sides, as is diving for balls/tackles. They also lifted the quick-switch idea for choosing your defender at the beginning of the play. In combination with more hot routes/blocking schemes/defensive adjustments, just about everything that was great about the 2k series has been placed into Madden. Unless you love arcade style running and wide open spaces after the catch, and of course, the presentation, I don't see why anyone would outright hate this game (other than the fact that there can BE no other NFL games). Seeing how much EA has stolen from VC over the years, it should be duly noted that VC (Take 2 or whomever) should start stealing back. They should start with the interface and saving mechanism. Their sports games have been broken at this very basic level ever since the Dreamcast days. I for one will not miss having to sub players in formations, load profiles, change audibles, and mess with coaching settings before every game. EA's user interface for their sports games is as far ahead of the competition as VC's presentation (at least the NFL 2k series) was over Madden.

In summary, the passing cone is a tad cumbersome, but once you adjust to the overall speed of the blitz, and learn to read it, and learn your plays, and memorize the new control scheme, and stop pressing L to adjust your cone, and stop pressing the wrong receiver button because of a blitz, and stop trying to return punts, and turn off all the awful songs and remixes, you'll never want to play another football game this year. Until 360 of course. This game isn't perfect, but I think most sports fans realize they never will be. If you are a sports fan first over sports video games, they will never have the realism that we get watching a game, but this is the best football game that's ever existed. And it's really not even close.
 
My thoughts from another thread:

Cone is a decent idea but the implementation is clunky and counterintuitive. Why do I have to fumble around with buttons when I have a guy WIDE open on an out pattern and end up getting sacked? It might be better for folks with star QBs who see the whole field but it's retarded to have to switch views for an open guy parallel to and running in stride with the QB.

My play style is rinky-dink sidearm passes while running out of the pocket (with Jgar) and there's just no way to get into an offensive rythm since I can't scramble, make my reads and fumble with buttons simultaneously. And that's when guys aren't blitzing every down!

Matrix said I run PA too much but that's cos I can hardly get time to pass in regular sets IMO, it's a cheap way to lower the passing stats without changing the game engine...
 
In summary, the passing cone is a tad cumbersome, but once you adjust to the overall speed of the blitz, and learn to read it, and learn your plays, and memorize the new control scheme, and stop pressing L to adjust your cone, and stop pressing the wrong receiver button because of a blitz, and stop trying to return punts

:lol

My problem is that I don't have that kind of time to devote to one game anymore. What happened to "deep' football sims with "simple" controls that you could pick up and play intuitively while learning the complexities of the game gradually as you play.


Oh yeah....
 
Cry me a fucking river cloudy,you're bitter that ESPN is gone,you're gonna bitch regardless,we all understand,you don't have to try so hard!
 
My thoughts from the other thread...

i have an idea... what if the passing cone worked like this instead...

say you have X selected as primary receiver: you drop back for a pass... if X is open, you use the R-Trigger to pass to him. that's it!

if you want to change to a different receiver, then just hit his button. for example, if A came open, you just hit the A button, then R-Trigger to pass to him.

this saves having to do two buttons to switch to someone else, then another button to throw it to him.

also, if your QB is a lefty, you would instead use the L-Trigger to throw. having the Triggers for the passing just would feel right, like my right/left arm is throwing the ball by using the left/right Trigger. not only that, but the tremendous range of the analog Triggers could make for more accurate lobs/bullets and everything in between.

of course you would lose being able to throw to anyone at anytime (without a quick switch) but to me that would be more realisitc. you'd have to look at who you throw to, like in real life (real QB's can't throw to someone without looking at them!). it would mean the pre-snap reads would be as important as they are in real life.

it would also let the defense "read your eyes" like in real life. which would setup, of course, the ability for good QB's to "look off" a safety or LB to open up the field. again, exactly like real life QB's do (or the good ones). to me, this would factor more of a gamers skill into the game.

what do you guys think?
 
shpankey said:
My thoughts from the other thread...

i have an idea... what if the passing cone worked like this instead...

say you have X selected as primary receiver: you drop back for a pass... if X is open, you use the R-Trigger to pass to him. that's it!

if you want to change to a different receiver, then just hit his button. for example, if A came open, you just hit the A button, then R-Trigger to pass to him.

this saves having to do two buttons to switch to someone else, then another button to throw it to him.

also, if your QB is a lefty, you would instead use the L-Trigger to throw. having the Triggers for the passing just would feel right, like my right/left arm is throwing the ball by using the left/right Trigger. not only that, but the tremendous range of the analog Triggers could make for more accurate lobs/bullets and everything in between.

of course you would lose being able to throw to anyone at anytime (without a quick switch) but to me that would be more realisitc. you'd have to look at who you throw to, like in real life (real QB's can't throw to someone without looking at them!). it would mean the pre-snap reads would be as important as they are in real life.

it would also let the defense "read your eyes" like in real life. which would setup, of course, the ability for good QB's to "look off" a safety or LB to open up the field. again, exactly like real life QB's do (or the good ones). to me, this would factor more of a gamers skill into the game.

what do you guys think?

That's horrible.
 
Cloudy said:
:lol

My problem is that I don't have that kind of time to devote to one game anymore. What happened to "deep' football sims with "simple" controls that you could pick up and play intuitively while learning the complexities of the game gradually as you play.


Oh yeah....


I thought you'd like that sentance. Those are the main problems with Madden as I see them, but it's hardly as complex as I made it out to be. I was exaggerating for effect, something you know a little about. :) The thing is, once the controls become a little more second nature, it's going to be the deepest passing simulator in videogame history. Nothing can simulate the physical nature of being a QB, but this simulates the mental aspect of what is the hardest job in sports. The controls are a little clunky, but the ideas behind the mechanics are revolutionary.

Shpanky, thanks for copying that in this thread. I read your post a couple of days ago and I think your control scheme would work great with the cone idea, and would streamline it in a few ways. For Xbox, black and white are a somewhat difficult change from the L/R trigger of the past, but I understand why they had to go that way. It has opened up the A button to sprint in the pocket (or out) without losing your passing windows (sound familiar NFL 2k fans?) Now, to change your primary receiver, you have an R trigger pull in combination with a button, release R trigger, set your feet, pass, put touch on ball. That's overly complicated, I don't think anyone would argue that. Your method would eliminate a long travel (pulling the R trigger) and release, which would speed up the process AFTER you decide whom to throw. In addition (and the true brilliance of your scheme), by using the R trigger to pass, you would gain a lot more control over the velocity/arc of the pass. I wish you would email EA and let them know of the control scheme so they can implement it in the 360 version in some fashion.


edit: Bog, couldn't disagree more, except when it comes to using R/L trigger based on the hand of the QB.
 
yes i too hope they have the cone challenges in pgr3. i agree it was hard to pass some of the levels but boy was it fun!
 
shpankey that is actually a great idea but to me it would feel a lot like single button passing in madden 99-2001. these maddens basically used the blitz setup, and while it was fun at times, i felt like it really limited my options. i know it would be more realistic, but i like how the cone is now.

but i would definitely give it a spin if they implemented an option to go either way. i would have to request they slow down the pass rush just a tad though
 
Barnimal said:
yes i too hope they have the cone challenges in pgr3. i agree it was hard to pass some of the levels but boy was it fun!

god I hope not. I completed the entire game on silver (yes I'm a pussy) except for three cone challenges. I hated them. Too much pressure on keeping things chained - if I wanted that I'd buy a shitty extreme sports game.
 
My thoughts on the cone:

Pros:

-The precision passing brought on with the vision cone is an incredible addition.
-Being able to "look off" defenders. FMT, Malley, and Fifty are the notable guys that play in the secondary. I've luckily been able to trick them a few times.

Cons:

-Nearly impossible to check down passed your second receiver.
-Human defenders will gravitate towards the cone
-Some player's cones are so small that manually moving it with the right stick is asking for trouble.

My biggest problem with Madden 2006 is the incompetent blocking on behalf of my oline. Even with slide protection active, they get beat outside, inside, left, right... it's ridiculous. Especially considering that the Giants' oline is actually pretty damned good this year. The cone does nothing but worsen the problem with the slight delay it introduces.

Something I have been working on to fix my checking down on receivers is to not move the cone to the guy before I want to throw. It takes too long to move the cone more than once each play.
 
Wellington said:
My biggest problem with Madden 2006 is the incompetent blocking on behalf of my oline. Even with slide protection active, they get beat outside, inside, left, right... it's ridiculous. Especially considering that the Giants' oline is actually pretty damned good this year. The cone does nothing but worsen the problem with the slight delay it introduces.

I've noticed this too. I'm using the Browns so my Oline isn't that good to begin with. But even playing scrub teams they collapse and leave me ope to a sack at a huge loss. It's frustrating because I slide my guys to protect and try to buy myself at least SOME time in the pocket, to no avail. I'm face down in the grass and 2nd or 3rd and 15...

I have no big problems with the cone, it is a bit cumbersome, but I tend to choose and lock on my receiver after I look at the defense.
 
More thoughts I posted elsewhere:

I'm pretty much forced to commit to one guy way too early and just hope I don't get picked off. Hell, that's probably safer than trying to switch to the better option and getting sacked for a 10 yd loss cos the only way you get enough time to pass is in PA or dropping back forever >_<

In every football game I've played till now, when I call a play I have 2 guys in mind. My main guy and the backup in case shit happens. Maybe I'm just not a good enough videogame player but in this game, 90% of the time, I can't switch to the other WR in time O_o
 
I like the addition of the cone. I was suprised how easy it was to get into, but I haven't played online yet, so I guess it's probably harder to use there. It helps open up guys for big plays, which is a big advantage, but a problem is that during some play action plays, my QB will get sacked less than a second after he fakes it to the RB. In times like that, I NEED to throw the ball (There's usually 3 receivers open since they blitzed), but the cone takes up too much time. That and passing with the black and white buttons are my only gripes with the passing system. The cone's a great addition, but it definitely could be refined a bit.
 
Some observations about the cone, and a mini strategy guide (NOTE: I use Daunte Culpepper, his cone is average sized but he is a very highly rated QB. Your mileage may vary.):

1) People who's passing game is based off of Slingin' and Slangin' are screwed unless you use Favre, Manning or Brady. If you generally just chose a cool looking passing play and fly by the seat of your pants after the snap, the cone is going to be very hard on you. I actually admire the skill involved in playing that way, but I'm not a good enough player to be successfull with those tactics. I think most of the loudest critics of the cone might be used to playing this way in previous Maddens. You'll have much more success if you make yourself more intimately familiar with a smaller set of passing plays.

2) You do not need to directly focus your cone on a receiver to throw to him. This is obvious, but it needs to be said and understood. Most passing plays have routes that will not be within the cone at the start of the play, but will intersect it shortly after the snap. These should be your second and third reads. It's easier to let receivers wander into your cone then to try to place your cone on them. Don't mess with the cone until you have to.

3) Maximize the number of reads you have by choosing an appropriate primary receiver before the snap. For example: lets say you're in the 2-1-2 formation, the default primary route is a fly pattern to the receiver on the left, and the TE on the right side does a 5 and in. The fly pattern takes for ever to develop, which will get you sacked if you stare at it the entire play. On the other hand, the TE pattern is great to dump the ball to when you're being blitzed. Change the primary receiver to the TE before the snap. Snap the ball and read the linebackers. If the blitz is on, unload the ball to the TE, take your 5-7 yards and reload for next play. If it's not, notice that as the TE moves from right to left the cone will naturally swing to the left and into the path of the fly pattern. Convenient, eh? This also effectively "looks off" cheating safeties without the user having to make a concious effort to do so.

4) Checkdown routes to the flats don't seem to need the focus of the cone to be successfull. I've had good success throwing to swing patterns without the the cone anywhere near the flats. Just don't try to throw across your body. If the cone is on the right side of the field, you should be able to make a reasonably accurrate throw to the right flat without moving the cone an inch.
 
hmmm, im starting to think that the cone is going to be fun to use against the computer, but for 2player/online games i might have to turn it off. It just feels too limiting, and like someone else mentioned, defenders just have to gravitate their secondary or just one or two safeties and linebackers toward your cone and it could fuck you up. I usually am able to have a "backup" 2nd reciever incase the first doesn't pan out, but even then it has to be a reciever on the same side of the field as my 1st option, like my tight end running a very quick little out route or something, otherwise i'll have to throw the ball recklessly across the field, which will probably be picked off.
 
Top Bottom