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[John Harker]

Hey guys.

I'm moving, and I'm looking for a new computer to get. (small)

I want my budget to stay in the $500-$700 price range... and I can always use my mouse, keyboard, and lcd monitor from my other computer.

I had a dell and an emachine, but I'm thinking so far...

The Mac Mini or the HP Pavilion s7210n Slimline PC?

Both seems great for the price - but I've never been a Mac user before, and I feel like that would end up costing me more in the end - I feel like I'd need a new mouse/keyboard, and I'd want to buy microsoft office.

Anyone know which of the two is better for your money, or have any other suggestions?
I'm looking for something small, quiet, effiecent, and functional for that price range.

THANKS

 

[Gantz]

Build your own.

 

[Culex]

Buy a bare bones Shuttle PC and build from there.

 

[John Harker]

i would, but I'm looking for a quick fix.
My comp just blew yesterday, and I need my own for when I move into my apartment on Dec 1st.

can't go a day without the pc brain waves, ya know

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

If you mainly use your pc for the net, email, music etc the Mac Mini is freakin awesome. If you want to game it's obviously a bad chouce.

 

[Slurpy]

He doesn't need to build his own. These days, you will not save money building a basic pc. Quite the opposite.

 

[Pack of Wild Rats]

If he's looking for a 500-700 dollar pc, I doubt he plans to game much. The Mac Mini is probably the best choice. OSX>XP

 

[John Harker]

If he's looking for a 500-700 dollar pc, I doubt he plans to game much. The Mac Mini is probably the best choice. OSX>XP

Yea, I havent PC gamed much in awhile. I just can't afford it and my consoles, so it got the shaft.

I recently played FFXI for a month, and WoW for two months. Will those run decently on either computer, if the settings are low enough? Thats all the gaming-intensive I need.
Unless StarCraft 2 finally comes out... haha

 

[Teknopathetic]

www.ibuypower.com

?

 

[emomoonbase]

The Mac Mini 1.3ghz, 512mb, 40 gb HDD is going for like $499. And on /. I seen a thing were MS was doing like a 50% off thing on MS Office for OSX in December. Not sure what days though. Plus if you already have some PC's this would give you a chance to learn a new OS. And they are really quiet.

At least that's what I tell myself whenever I think about getting one.

 

[Deg]

If you want games dont touch Macs.

Get a cheap pc with/without monitor and you'll get better $ per performance. Companies tend to give offers.

 

[John Harker]

So no one likes the HP Slimeline, eh? I just thought it was a good equivilant of the mini for the same price + it looks sleek.

So, if no gaming than mac mini
if gaming, build it self.


Is that the general consensus? Well, I'm prolly not building it myself, as I want it by like, Tuesday/Wendsay, so maybe the mini it is?

 

[Shogmaster]

So no one likes the HP Slimeline, eh? I just thought it was a good equivilant of the mini for the same price + it looks sleek.

So, if no gaming than mac mini
if gaming, build it self.


Is that the general consensus? Well, I'm prolly not building it myself, as I want it by like, Tuesday/Wendsay, so maybe the mini it is?

The Slimelines uses much more capable CPU than the Mac Mini (512KB L2 cache versions of Dothan), but Mac Mini buyers don't give a crap about CPU power so....

The slimlines would do a much better job at HD video playback, that's for sure.

 

[John Harker]

The Slimelines uses much more capable CPU than the Mac Mini (512KB L2 cache versions of Dothan), but Mac Mini buyers don't give a crap about CPU power so....

The slimlines would do a much better job at HD video playback, that's for sure.

I was actually hoping you'd pop your head in here... you always seem to know what your talking about regarding tech specs and the like.

I was worried about an underpowered cpu on the the mini.

But the mini processor g4 at 1.42 mhgz is more efficient than the celeron in the Slimline, no? Or is the power downgrade that significant

 

[Big Takeover]

But the mini processor g4 at 1.42 mhgz is more efficient than the celeron in the Slimline, no? Or is the power downgrade that significant

Not to say hardware specs aren't important, but the pros and cons of OSX vs. XP dwarfs any percentage points in speed between machines. If you are interested in moving to a new platform, you do so for the os and the applications. If your not drawn by OSX nor the applications it runs, stick with XP.

 

[John Harker]

Not to say hardware specs aren't important, but the pros and cons of OSX vs. XP dwarfs any percentage points in speed between machines. If you are interested in moving to a new platform, you do so for the os and the applications. If your not drawn by OSX nor the applications it runs, stick with XP.

Man, we can turn this into a Rev vs Ps3/X360 argument reaaaally quickly, couldnt we? Haha. Damn those parallels.


But yea, your right. I know. It's just, Ive been immersed into PCs and Windows for so damn long, I feel like someone whose almost an expert vs someone totally clueless on OSX... its like becoming a newbie all over again.

But so many people swear by Macs OS, so it could be fun to learn all over again, right?

I think I'll go with the mini (is the system easy to learn?) unless someone convinecs me otherwise.

 

[Mr Jared]

When my PC died (Power Supply failed) I finally got sick of it and switched to a Mac Mini -- something affordable that I knew wouldn't go bad.

Best. Decision. Ever.

I've left the world of RTS and FPS games for the world of better computing.

If you just want a computer to do you typical computer tasks and PC gaming isn't your plan, get a Mac There is absolutely no reason to stay on a Windows based PC unless you plan on playing a PC exclusive game or you really want to connect to your 360.

And in the latter, just build a cheap box with hard drives later =D

Oh, and swtiching from XP to OSX is simple. You just have to get used to the fact that there is no "Maximize". . at least, that was the biggest obstacle in my switch and a pretty silly one at that.

 

[John Harker]

When my PC died (Power Supply failed) I finally got sick of it and switched to a Mac Mini -- something affordable that I knew wouldn't go bad.

Best. Decision. Ever.

I've left the world of RTS and FPS games for the world of better computing.

If you just want a computer to do you typical computer tasks and PC gaming isn't your plan, get a Mac There is absolutely no reason to stay on a Windows based PC unless you plan on playing a PC exclusive game or you really want to connect to your 360.

And in the latter, just build a cheap box with hard drives later =D

Oh, and swtiching from XP to OSX is simple. You just have to get used to the fact that there is no "Maximize". . at least, that was the biggest obstacle in my switch and a pretty silly one at that.

Post of the year.

Thats exactly what happend to me - harddrive failure, lost everything. Got fed up, want new toy. The confidence there is what I was looking for - hell, I was playing around with a Mac before, and was annoyed without having a "Maximise" so its funny you should mention it.

Ok, I'm gonna do it. The plunge will be taken. Thanks guys.

 

[Mr Jared]

[Cues Imperial March]

Excellent. . Whichever Mac Mini you get, just make sure to get at least 512mb of memory with it. I couldn't imagine actually using less.

Also, check out Apple's Refurbished section, though I don't think they have anything good up for Mini's right now. I got mine refurbished for $425 with 512mb of memory, and they start at $499 for the basic model with just 256mb of memory.

 

[Big Takeover]

is the system easy to learn?

While there is a lot you can learn, the real beauty is there is very little you have to learn. A lot of us are windows experts due to years of hackery to get things working correctly, but it is a skill born from necessity. OSX isn't like that. Well, it's not totally devoid of that, but it's pretty shocking how little it asks of you.

Oh yeah, screw MS office. Open Office FTW!

 

[John Harker]

While there is a lot you can learn, the real beauty is there is very little you have to learn. A lot of us are windows experts due to years of hackery to get things working correctly, but it is a skill born from necessity. OSX is like that. Well, it's not totally devoid of that, but it's pretty shocking how little it asks of you.

Oh yeah, screw MS office. Open Office FTW!

I agree with you in that sense - the only reason I feel I know the ins-n-outs of Windows is because of all the damn problems I've had with it over the years, and figuring out how to fix it all the time.

So I guess if I lose that forced learning curve, it wont be so bad

 

[John Harker]

I just spent $815 (tax included).

Got the Mac Mini with:

1.42 Ghz PowerPc G4
1.5 GB of DDR SDRAM
ATI Radeon 9200
80GM Ultra ATA hard drive
DVD/CD-RW Combo Drive
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 1

and that includes a wired Apple keyboard.
(no monitor or mouse)

... good idea? or ripoff?

 

[Danj]

The only problem I can see with the Mac Mini (which will certainly cause you trouble if you plan to play any games like WoW on it - and yes there is a Mac version of WoW) is the fact that the graphics are woefully underpowered. A Radeon 9200 with 32Mb of video memory just doesn't cut it. I find myself wondering why Apple couldn't have just sprung for the extra 32Mb to bump it up to 64, or taken it out entirely and allowed the video chip to use system memory.

As far as keyboards go you probably want to get an Apple one so that you get the proper Apple and command keys, otherwise keyboard shortcuts might get a bit confusing.

 

[John Harker]

The only problem I can see with the Mac Mini (which will certainly cause you trouble if you plan to play any games like WoW on it - and yes there is a Mac version of WoW) is the fact that the graphics are woefully underpowered. A Radeon 9200 with 32Mb of video memory just doesn't cut it. I find myself wondering why Apple couldn't have just sprung for the extra 32Mb to bump it up to 64, or taken it out entirely and allowed the video chip to use system memory.

As far as keyboards go you probably want to get an Apple one so that you get the proper Apple and command keys, otherwise keyboard shortcuts might get a bit confusing.

yea, that price includes the keyboard, i bought one too.

I believe the graphics card here is upgradedable, right?
thats why i sprung for the extra gig of RAM. i got a 1 gig chip at a discount for $150, so they gonna give me the 1.5 gig (it comes standard with 512).

I have a ge force fx 5200 in my dell that that I played WoW on.. would that work in the mini?

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Oh shit! He bought a Mac!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[Geoff9920]

yea, that price includes the keyboard, i bought one too.

I believe the graphics card here is upgradedable, right?
thats why i sprung for the extra gig of RAM. i got a 1 gig chip at a discount for $150, so they gonna give me the 1.5 gig (it comes standard with 512).

I have a ge force fx 5200 in my dell that that I played WoW on.. would that work in the mini?

No, the graphics card is not upgradable. Actually, I don't think your 5200 would even fit inside a mini, let alone be compatable with with the logic board.

 

[John Harker]

No, the graphics card is not upgradable. Actually, I don't think your 5200 would even fit inside a mini, let alone be compatable with with the logic board.

I'm not a big PC game player anyway (besides Diablo, StarCraft, Warcraft, and FFXI and WoW I used to play), but what can I expect out of this sytem? Could I even play WoW at low settings?

 

[Geoff9920]

I'm not a big PC game player anyway (besides Diablo, StarCraft, Warcraft, and FFXI and WoW I used to play), but what can I expect out of this sytem? Could I even play WoW at low settings?

First thing, you'll be able to install any copy of WoW on OS X. Blizzard provides Windows & OS X installers on all there recent games. Your warcraft III disk will work too(You might need an installer patch though, dont quite remember).

As far as playability of WoW, that would depend on the person. But you can expect about an average of 15fps, excluding Ironforge.

 

[John Harker]

First thing, you'll be able to install any copy of WoW on OS X. Blizzard provides Windows & OS X installers on all there recent games. Your warcraft III disk will work too(You might need an installer patch though, dont quite remember).

As far as playability of WoW, that would depend on the person. But you can expect about an average of 15fps, excluding Ironforge.

Ouch. 15 fps? Is that even viewable? Haha, I used to get framerate drops in Ironforge as it is with my other card mentioned above. Well, and here I was, thinking I was being wise by opting for the 1.5gigs of Ram.

 

[tahrikmili]

If you wanted to play games *at all* you shouldn't have gone for the mini.. I wish I had dropped by this thread earlier

 

[element]

Mini Mac is pretty sweet, but $815 for that type of machine is a lot of money.

 

[Gio_CoD]

Yeah, Macs are nice to look at, but if you're looking to get performance for your money, you probably should have gone somewhere else.

Still, cool looking machine!

 

[DaCocoBrova]

Return it!

I'm amazed that you thought you'd be playing (3D) games w/ that.

 

[Leatherface]

yea, that price includes the keyboard, i bought one too.

I believe the graphics card here is upgradedable, right?
thats why i sprung for the extra gig of RAM. i got a 1 gig chip at a discount for $150, so they gonna give me the 1.5 gig (it comes standard with 512).

I have a ge force fx 5200 in my dell that that I played WoW on.. would that work in the mini?

:lol

owned. No upgrade for joo!

p.s.- As a gamer wtf did you buy that? I just built a decent budget PC for my buddy for $500.

2600+ Athlon
80gig HD
400W ps
dvdrw
1gig ram
6600gt
Case
Sound and nic built in MB
xp pro

a good computer that can play games well, all for $300 less then your crippled mac mini! :lol

 

[John Harker]

Well, I'm a hardcore console gamer.

I think a part of me realized I just can't afford to play console/handhelds/PC gaming, so PC is getting the shaft. Like I said earlier, the only PC gaming I do is Diablo 1 & 2, Starcraft, Warcraft 2-3, and I played a month each of FFXI and WoW. That's all I really need - my question is, will I be able to do *at least* that?

I wasn't getting it for gaming - my main PC just blew two days ago, I'm moving to a small apartment, so I wanted something small/sleek, easily portable, very functional, and sometihng arond $700. Well, I spent a little more, but I went for the 1.5 gigs vs the 512 MB of RAM.

.... no good? I'm more of a consoler than a PC guy, so my knowledge doesnt entirely lie in PCs and specs (though I know the in's and outs of Windows after all these years, Tiger just looked like new fun to learn, no?)

 

[Gio_CoD]

It's not gonna run FFXI and WoW. At least not well.

 

[Big Takeover]

Well, I'm a hardcore console gamer.

I think a part of me realized I just can't afford to play console/handhelds/PC gaming, so PC is getting the shaft. Like I said earlier, the only PC gaming I do is Diablo 1 & 2, Starcraft, Warcraft 2-3, and I played a month each of FFXI and WoW. That's all I really need - my question is, will I be able to do *at least* that?

I wasn't getting it for gaming - my main PC just blew two days ago, I'm moving to a small apartment, so I wanted something small/sleek, easily portable, very functional, and sometihng arond $700. Well, I spent a little more, but I went for the 1.5 gigs vs the 512 MB of RAM.

.... no good? I'm more of a consoler than a PC guy, so my knowledge doesnt entirely lie in PCs and specs (though I know the in's and outs of Windows after all these years, Tiger just looked like new fun to learn, no?)

Your asking about Apple in a gaming forum. You should know the kind of response you would get. Next gen consoles will blow everything away compared to a budget pc. Cut the pc gaming cord now and just move on.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

He doesn't need to build his own. These days, you will not save money building a basic pc. Quite the opposite.

..i cant say i agree with that at all, the price for performance you get with building your own computer is still better than buying from a manufacturer. With the sempron available and ECS barebone mb's with integrated sound and video solutions i dont see how he cant save more money its not like he cant salvage some parts from his old system. If all he needs is a case that can be bought for what 50 bucks, a sub 100 dollar sempron, and a sub 100 dollar motherboard that includes everything but video card you could put together a capable budget system for a nice price. The good thing about going with these components is you wont get some garbage component that OEM's usually put in systems to basically lower inventory and lower the price.

 

[Geoff9920]

Ouch. 15 fps? Is that even viewable? Haha, I used to get framerate drops in Ironforge as it is with my other card mentioned above. Well, and here I was, thinking I was being wise by opting for the 1.5gigs of Ram.

:lol That was a fairly conservative estimate, but the mac mini is by no means a gaming machine.

BTW, after you get set up, here are two must have programs:
VLC Player - That'll play any type of video except WMP9 encoded files.
Open Office - I use MS office 2004, but this is a great alternative.

 

[John Harker]

Your asking about Apple in a gaming forum. You should know the kind of response you would get. Next gen consoles will blow everything away compared to a budget pc. Cut the pc gaming cord now and just move on.

Good advice - thank you

BTW, after you get set up, here are two must have programs:
VLC Player - That'll play any type of video except WMP9 encoded files.
Open Office - I use MS office 2004, but this is a great alternative.

Sounds good to me!
Got any other recos?

Man, it really is like joining a new family.

The "Mac Genius" is currently installing my gig of RAM, so I'll probably have it up and running tomorrow.

 

[John Harker]

Mini Mac is pretty sweet, but $815 for that type of machine is a lot of money.

Well, it came to $815 because I got a keyboard and an extra gig of RAM. (512 just didnt seem enough these days) no?

 

[Geoff9920]

Good advice - thank you



Sounds good to me!
Got any other recos?

Man, it really is like joining a new family.

The "Mac Genius" is currently installing my gig of RAM, so I'll probably have it up and running tomorrow.

Sure, if you chat on several clients or plan on chatting through msn messenger(MS version sucks), use Adium

If you're using safari, and you absolutely want it to be fullscreen, do the following:

1. Create a bookmark
2. Go to the Bookmarks menu > Show all bookmarks > Change the bookmarks URL to the following code;

javascript:self.moveTo(0,0);self.resizeTo(screen.availWidth,screen.availHeight);

3. Rename it whatever you want.


I'll be sure to post more as I think of them, gotta run now though.

edit: You'll be glad you got the extra gig of RAM. It'll make a difference on how OS X performs.

 

[Big Takeover]

Got any other recos?

PM'd you.

 

[Mr Jared]

Adium is quite possibly the best IM client I've ever worked with. I hated Trilian on the PC. . it's a god awful piece of bloatware, but Adium is just about perfect and does everything minus IRC.

I was playing WoW a few weeks back and it ran fine on my Mini. Granted, lowest settings but it was still about 24fps. Still, I didn't get the Mini to game anyways. I got it to function as a computer I'll never have to worry about. . it has succeeded.

I'll upgrade to an iMac when Apple introduces their next model. . Though the current G5 with built-in iSight is very tempting. .

 

[John Harker]

Thanks BCD2.

Adium is quite possibly the best IM client I've ever worked with. I hated Trilian on the PC. . it's a god awful piece of bloatware, but Adium is just about perfect and does everything minus IRC.

I was playing WoW a few weeks back and it ran fine on my Mini. Granted, lowest settings but it was still about 24fps. Still, I didn't get the Mini to game anyways. I got it to function as a computer I'll never have to worry about. . it has succeeded.

I'll upgrade to an iMac when Apple introduces their next model. . Though the current G5 with built-in iSight is very tempting. .

So you can run WoW... thats excellent to know. Just in case. Yea, I'm not gaming much on it.

How much RAM does yours have?

And how does it run heatwise? The floor model in the store was running pretty hot - the wooden desk it was sitting on was very much noticebly warmed up too, which kinda bothered me.

 

[element]

Well, it came to $815 because I got a keyboard and an extra gig of RAM. (512 just didnt seem enough these days) no?

Here is a quote from newegg. took 5 minutes to make, so I didn't even look for many alternatives.

Shuttle XPC SN95G5V3
AMD Athlon 64 3700+
CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB x 2 (2 GB total)
SAPPHIRE Radeon X700 128MB DDR PCI Express x16
Western Digital Caviar SE 200GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150
NEC Black IDE/ATAPI DVD Burner Model ND-3550A
Total = $905

AMD Athlon 64 3700+
MSI K8N Neo4-F Socket 939
CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB x 2 (2 GB total)
COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW
COOLMAX CR-450B ATX 450W
PNY Geforce 6600GT 128MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16
Western Digital Caviar SE 200GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
NEC Black IDE/ATAPI DVD Burner Model ND-3550A
Total = $845

 

[Mr Jared]

How much RAM does yours have?

And how does it run heatwise? The floor model in the store was running pretty hot - the wooden desk it was sitting on was very much noticebly warmed up too, which kinda bothered me.

512MB. DUN DUN DUN! You should be fine.

You know? I never notice it. It's warm but not exactly hot. I have a wooden desk myself and I never notice any heat coming from it. Actually, unless I have to put a CD/DVD in it I never notice it's even there. Silenttt~

 

[John Harker]

Here is a quote from newegg. took 5 minutes to make, so I didn't even look for many alternatives.

Shuttle XPC SN95G5V3
AMD Athlon 64 3700+
CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB x 2 (2 GB total)
SAPPHIRE Radeon X700 128MB DDR PCI Express x16
Western Digital Caviar SE 200GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150
NEC Black IDE/ATAPI DVD Burner Model ND-3550A
Total = $905

AMD Athlon 64 3700+
MSI K8N Neo4-F Socket 939
CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB x 2 (2 GB total)
COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW
COOLMAX CR-450B ATX 450W
PNY Geforce 6600GT 128MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16
Western Digital Caviar SE 200GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
NEC Black IDE/ATAPI DVD Burner Model ND-3550A
Total = $845

Never heard of newegg.
Ahh, well those seem like good gaming PCs that I may want to get later on the the road then. I'll look into it then, thanks. When StarCraft 2 finally comes out, daddy's gonna need new beef

Sl1p, thanks for the reassurance

 

[fartblast]

get a PS3 with linux

 

[element]

Never heard of newegg.

best you stick with your MAC then.

The only problem with MACs are the limited upgrading you can do. I mean really when it is time to update your MAC you throw it away. I had a G3 500MHz iBook with 768 MB of RAM and I had to retire it with Panther (10.3). I had to add another GB of RAM to my dual 1 GHz G4 just to keep it moving with Tiger (10.4). As cool as the Dashboard is, it takes like 70 MB itself.

I really would like a mini mac, but I won't buy another mac until the G5 drop in price or the Intel machines come out.