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[Palculator]

Well she is neat but the shitty jokes Vincent and the gang throw at her aren't very trans-friendly.

But at the same time they've had Toby embrace her for what she is and follow through with his love for her. It's just multiple characters having multiple opinions, some of which are shitty. Not all characters are perfect and it helps characterize Vincent as kind of immature.

 

[Sorian]

Shall i start wielding the fist of justice?

Can we make a waifu talk thread? (When there are more waifus)

Edit: I made an assumption of what you were wielding that fist of justice for, I didn't read some of the posts, didnt realize we were getting in a trans argument.

 

[Guess Who]

Naoto was written as a look at Gender roles in Japanese society, particularly women in the work place. It was there was from the start.

Not true, she was originally conceived as a boy, with his defining "character flaw" being that he hated being seen as a child:

I feel you can still really see this in her Social Link, which revolves primarily around her grandfather sending her on a "childish" detective hunt, while her gender role problems are only lightly touched on (unless you romance her, of course).

 

[Weiss]

But at the same time they've had Toby embrace her for what she is and follow through with his love for her. It's just multiple characters having multiple opinions, some of which are shitty. Not all characters are perfect and it helps characterize Vincent as kind of immature.

Toby recoils in horror and begs to be a virgin again.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Well she is neat but the shitty jokes Vincent and the gang throw at her aren't very trans-friendly.

They're also not fueled by hate. Not that I have any experience with this but, as childhood friends, knowing her for years before and clearly all being very close to each other, Vincent's jokes seem like they would be more natural than the gang constantly trying to tiptoe around her so as to not hurt her.

 

[Squire]

Considering she poked fun at the other characters just as much and she was respected as much as any of the guys, I don't see the problem. It would have been worse if they tiptoed around the issue and the characters pretended not to have any opinion on the matter at all.

You're probably not trans either.

Lots of failure (if not refusal) to take a second to adopt a perspective other than your own in this thread.

But that's to be expected, I guess. Shame.

Edit: It's not about the intent of the jokes or the morality of the characters, it's what it feels like to hear and see these things in media when you're the target party yourself and these things have effected your real life.

 

[Steel]

You're probably not trans either.

Lots of failure (if not refusal) to take a second to adopt a perspective other than your own in this thread.

But that's to be expected, I guess. Shame.

That's a pretty funny assumption actually.

 

[Cream]

You're probably not trans either.

Lots of failure (if not refusal) to take a second to adopt a perspective other than your own in this thread.

But that's to be expected, I guess. Shame.

I mean, I'm not trans, but I have a very close trans friend, and I crack jokes about it with her all the time, and I've asked several times, seriously, if it offends her. She laughs along with them and makes jokes too.

Anecdotal of course, and I know it's an outlier opinion.

Way to make an ass out of you and me though. I regret bringing up this topic at all

 

[Shouta]

Not true, she was originally conceived as a boy, with his defining "character flaw" being that he hated being seen as a child:

I feel you can still really see this in her Social Link, which revolves primarily around her grandfather sending her on a "childish" detective hunt, while her gender role problems are only lightly touched on (unless you romance her, of course).

Ah, interesting though Soejima says in the text that they wanted a "short pretty boy" but as a result of his first designs looking feminine they decided to change gender's. That sounds like it's pretty early in the design phase.

 

[Palculator]

Toby recoils in horror and begs to be a virgin again.

Well, I admit I needed a refresher since it's been a few years and just checked the wiki. It didn't really mention that and if that's true I'm sorry.

 

[mcw]

You're probably not trans either.

Lots of failure (if not refusal) to take a second to adopt a perspective other than your own in this thread.

But that's to be expected, I guess. Shame.

The reason why people don't want to discuss this shit is because folks like you shit all over them whenever they do with garbage like this.

 

[InfiniteNine]

They're also not fueled by hate. Not that I have any experience with this but, as childhood friends, knowing her for years before and clearly all being very close to each other, Vincent's jokes seem like they would be more natural than the gang constantly trying to tiptoe around her so as to not hurt her.

I would not keep company with "friends" who would joke around in the same vein as them since a good deal of what they said is very disrespectful and hurtful to say. I like the game but I just view that behavior as unacceptable for anyone I hold a friendship with.

 

[Nimby]

I feel like Kanji might have just been Atlus afraid to go all the way. Alternatively, they wanted to make some masculinity/sexuality connection and just ended up going crazy with his shadow lol.

Naoto is just a poorly written character.

There were gay romances at some point in development, Yosuke has a few lines hidden in the game. P4 had to compromise a lot of things, and it's a shame that Golden didn't try to recreate the original vision. Just looking at all that concept art -sigh-

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I would not keep company with "friends" who would joke around in the same vein as them since a good deal of what they said is very disrespectful and hurtful to say. I like the game but I just view that behavior as unacceptable.

Sure, I'm not really defending their actions since, again, I have zero experience with it. Everyone would probably handle and react to those social situations differently. All I meant originally was that, in response to a trans character in a video game, there was nothing wrong with:

So many people want to have a character with the trans status, but once the transition is done isn't the person trying to be seen as what they have always felt themselves to be?

And that's essentially how that character was handled.

 

[Cipher Cat]

Guys calm down.

 

[Cream]

I would not keep company with "friends" who would joke around in the same vein as them since a good deal of what they said is very disrespectful and hurtful to say. I like the game but I just view that behavior as unacceptable for anyone I hold a friendship with.

Depends on your personality, but I totally understand.

If you were childhood friends with someone for many years, and you have that kind of repoire with each other, the kind of common, crude insulty kind of friendship that a lot of close people have, I wouldn't be surprised by those jokes, if the trans person is of course alright with it. I wouldn't make that kind of a joke unless I was sure that they were okay with it already. Cause that's what trust is, ya know?

 

[MSMrRound]

Maybe those persons are LBGT themselves and would like characters they can better associate with? It's not an unreasonable thing to want.

Yep, I'm all for it too, as long as forumers/Western media doesn't bash Hashino and team/Persona 5 too much in the case that they happened to drop it...

 

[brianmcdoogle]

There were gay romances at some point in development, Yosuke has a few lines hidden in the game. P4 had to compromise a lot of things, and it's a shame that Golden didn't try to recreate the original vision. Just looking at all that concept art -sigh-

Is there a wiki or something with is info? I've never heard anything that Yosuke was supposed to be gay or that it is hidden in the game and I'd be interested to read about it or other things cut from the game.

 

[The Artisan]

-sigh- I don't wanna be the only one... did the music in the trailer remind anyone of xiaoyu's tekken tag tournament stage?

 

[Cream]

Yep, I'm all for it too, as long as forumers/Western media doesn't bash Hashino and team/Persona 5 too much in the case that they happened to drop it...

Would never do that. The game will be amazing and wonderful regardless.

 

[LX_Theo]

-sigh- I don't wanna be the only one... did the music in the trailer remind anyone of xiaoyu's tekken tag tournament stage?

Going to listen to it... Not really. Some similar instrumentation, but even that's not all that similar.

Its like a dance techno while this is more of a jazz rock.

 

[Palculator]

Is there a wiki or something with is info? I've never heard anything that Yosuke was supposed to be gay or that it is hidden in the game and I'd be interested to read about it or other things cut from the game.

I only know about this: https://tcrf.net/Persona_4

And I don't know how trustworthy that site is, to be honest. But I think many people just closely followed the development.

Edit: Didn't even see any info about gay Yosuke there.

 

[jwhit28]

I wonder how the flow of the game will be affected if there is no 2nd world. Will it just be demon fighting any time it is night while you work towards the night of the heist? Will there be special dangerous parts of town?

I would love to jump across roof tops looking for trouble like a street level super hero to do my leveling up. It seems unlikely that you can rob a place over multiple nights.

 

[Squire]

So, myself, some guys from the community thread and a few others did a podcast all about the trailer!

http://slinkfm.com/2015/02/08/episode-50/

Fun facts:
-There are 5 hosts
-It's our 50th episode
-it's all about Persona

Stars aligned for this one. If you listen, I hope you enjoy it.

 

[Cipher Cat]

Source

 

[Grim Patron]

I wonder how the flow of the game will be affected if there is no 2nd world. Will it just be demon fighting any time it is night while you work towards the night of the heist? Will there be special dangerous parts of town?

I would love to jump across roof tops looking for trouble like a street level super hero to do my leveling up. It seems unlikely that you can rob a place over multiple nights.

That part in the trailer where MC is on the train is the best. I know what you mean. 2 days to famitsu info then. Cant wait.

 

[The Artisan]

Going to listen to it... Not really. Some similar instrumentation, but even that's not all that similar.

Its like a dance techno while this is more of a jazz rock.

it was the violins in particular that got me.

 

[Palculator]

I wonder how the flow of the game will be affected if there is no 2nd world. Will it just be demon fighting any time it is night while you work towards the night of the heist? Will there be special dangerous parts of town?

I would love to jump across roof tops looking for trouble like a street level super hero to do my leveling up. It seems unlikely that you can rob a place over multiple nights.

That's kinda how it was in previous SMT and Persona (not 3 and 4) games. Certain areas were just dangerous. Though it wasn't like high grass in Pokemon, it was more like certain building's interior was dangerous.

 

[InfiniteNine]

Depends on your personality, but I totally understand.

If you were childhood friends with someone for many years, and you have that kind of repoire with each other, the kind of common, crude insulty kind of friendship that a lot of close people have, I wouldn't be surprised by those jokes, if the trans person is of course alright with it. I wouldn't make that kind of a joke unless I was sure that they were okay with it already. Cause that's what trust is, ya know?

Yeah, I can be a bit crude with friends too but their banter kinda went over the line a few times with me.
Everyone has their own boundaries and I'm not an angel (far from it!) but they kinda crossed my line a bit with a few specific lines that sounded like they were denying her identity a few times.

 

[bonercop]

Yep, I'm all for it too, as long as forumers/Western media doesn't bash Hashino and team/Persona 5 too much in the case that they happened to drop it...

i don't really care about the romance element one way or the other, but people should be able to complain about whatever they want. just because the inclusion of gay options is not important to you doesn't mean others feel the same way.

 

[Cipher Cat]

So, myself, some guys from the community thread and a few others did a podcast all about the trailer!

http://slinkfm.com/2015/02/08/episode-50/

Fun facts:
-There are 5 hosts
-It's our 50th episode
-it's all about Persona

Stars aligned for this one. If you listen, I hope you enjoy it.

Listening to it right now, while browsing.

 

[De-mon]

I made a wallpaper for smartphone. Quality is not perfect, but without better art can't do anything.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I wonder how the flow of the game will be affected if there is no 2nd world.

I'm not quite sure why people think there won't be the distinction between two worlds again. In teaser trailer #2, there's the aura going on in public that it seems only the P5MC can see, and in this trailer, he's transforming into his Persona right in the middle of Shibuya Crossing. It might be a more blurry line, but I do think there's a separation between the real world and another, unlike Persona 1 and Persona 2.

 

[Drop]

I wonder how the flow of the game will be affected if there is no 2nd world. Will it just be demon fighting any time it is night while you work towards the night of the heist? Will there be special dangerous parts of town?

I would love to jump across roof tops looking for trouble like a street level super hero to do my leveling up. It seems unlikely that you can rob a place over multiple nights.

That first part sounds a lot like persona 3, anyway I'd guess that's going to be the case regarding the heists, as you said it would be weird to rob a place multiple times.

 

[Palculator]

So, myself, some guys from the community thread and a few others did a podcast all about the trailer!

http://slinkfm.com/2015/02/08/episode-50/

Fun facts:
-There are 5 hosts
-It's our 50th episode
-it's all about Persona

Stars aligned for this one. If you listen, I hope you enjoy it.

I've discovered this a few weeks ago and am still working my way from episode 1 up to the current one. Awesome show, guys!

(Could you stop doing more episodes so I can catch up? :X)

 

[chrominance]

Well, I admit I needed a refresher since it's been a few years and just checked the wiki. It didn't really mention that and if that's true I'm sorry.

Uh, I don't know what we're doing with Catherine spoilers in this thread, so just in case:

Spoiler

this happens in Katherine's true ending, after the wedding. Here's the clip.

 

[Inuhanyou]

-sigh- I don't wanna be the only one... did the music in the trailer remind anyone of xiaoyu's tekken tag tournament stage?

No? They are both disco sounding, but that's hardly a point of comparison unless you've never listened to that kind of music in your life

 

[GloriousBagel]

Yep, I'm all for it too, as long as forumers/Western media doesn't bash Hashino and team/Persona 5 too much in the case that they happened to drop it...

100% this. If Persona 5 doesn't end up having LGBT characters or something of that degree, I don't want there to be an outcry.

It's honestly dumb, but considering Atlus has never been afraid having characters like Jun and Kanji. There is some hope I guess?

 

[The Artisan]

No? They are both disco sounding, but that's hardly a point of comparison unless you've never listened to that kind of music in your life

it's not that I haven't, it's that I've played a looot of ttt in my day. particularly the violins is what made it sound similar.

 

[Cipher Cat]

So cute

 

[Weiss]

One of my biggest hopes for Persona 5 is more fleshed out gay characters and romance. Kanji was cool, but the game treated him as a joke too often, was too afraid to just come out and say it, and in a game that's going to be about breaking society's chains and expectations so you can be happy, it'd be pretty shitty if that message was co-opted with "as long as you do it in a way that doesn't offend hetero normative sensibilities."

Hashino and the crew have the chance to make a game that can be a spearhead for gamers looking for more diverse and accepting works in their medium, and I hope they'll take it, but given how so many Japanese games and other media treats sexuality as a joke, I'm not holding my breath. Hopefully they've learned from Catherine.

 

[MSMrRound]

doesn't mean others feel the same way.

I understand, but I'm also allowed to criticize Western gaming media for focusing too much on sexuality issues in recent times aren't I?

Like I said, I hope they don't focus TOO MUCH on the thing if it was dropped. It would be a nice bonus if :LGBT issues are still mentioned in the game (maybe through the previously referenced school bullying news article etc we saw in the first Persona 5 protagonist trailer?)

 

[jwhit28]

That first part sounds a lot like persona 3, anyway I'd guess that's going to be the case regarding the heists, as you said it would be weird to rob a place multiple times.

Yeah but in P3 you still did most of your training in one place, then went somewhere else at full moon.

 

[Palculator]

Uh, I don't know what we're doing with Catherine spoilers in this thread, so just in case:

Spoiler

this happens in Katherine's true ending, after the wedding. Here's the clip.

To me this seems like more playful banter. There's absolutely no malicious intent behind what he's saying and it's much less aggressive than what was suggested earlier. They almost seem to have a Chie+Yosuke kind of messing around with each other going on

Edit: And Erica is clearly ragging on him, not being offended at all.

 

[Squire]

Listening to it right now, while browsing.

Thanks! Definitely post what you think.

I made a wallpaper for smartphone. Quality is not perfect, but without better art can't do anything.

Sweet! I think I'll use this.

I've discovered this a few weeks ago and am still working my way from episode 1 up to the current one. Awesome show, guys!

(Could you stop doing more episodes so I can catch up? :X)

Haha, thanks for listening. We're doing another one until mid-March, so you have time!

 

[Nimby]

Is there a wiki or something with is info? I've never heard anything that Yosuke was supposed to be gay or that it is hidden in the game and I'd be interested to read about it or other things cut from the game.

I only know about this: https://tcrf.net/Persona_4

And I don't know how trustworthy that site is, to be honest. But I think many people just closely followed the development.

Edit: Didn't even see any info about gay Yosuke there.

https://tcrf.net/Persona_4/Unused_Voice_Clips/Social_Links

It's here.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Anyone have an idea to why there are blood splashes whenever the MC walks or moves in the dungeon gameplay?

 

[Guess Who]

Haha, thanks for listening. We're doing another one until mid-March, so you have time!

Y'all need to get me on again, I miss you all~

 

[brianmcdoogle]

Uh, I don't know what we're doing with Catherine spoilers in this thread, so just in case:

Spoiler

this happens in Katherine's true ending, after the wedding. Here's the clip.

Wow, I never got the true ending, so I never saw that. Are there other moments where they reveal she is trans?

 

[InfiniteNine]

To me this seems like more playful banter. There's absolutely no malicious intent behind what he's saying and it's much less aggressive than what was suggested earlier. They almost seem to have a Chie+Yosuke kind of messing around with each other going on

Edit: And Erica is clearly ragging on him, not being offended at all.

What I was talking about was what was said during the course of the game not the reveal. Not that I don't really have any problems with that too but that's easier to brush off.