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Persona 5 |OT2| Someone must have been helping you go to bed early. Talk!

Yeah. If you're looking at the average then you're fine. Just make sure you can exploit weaknesses.
I have all the elements, 2nd tier nuke spells, 2nd tier Psychic spells, cursed and blessed covered, I should be fine on that front. I don't have any OP Personas but I have some pretty good ones. I have no idea why I have white and red rider, but I have them. I just fused Okuniushi or whatever yesterday, Queen Mab as well. I usually try to stay decently up to date with these. I don't want to ditch my Ghost Rider persona, but it has to happen at some point.
 

GeeTeeCee

Member
Aww nuts, I unlocked
Ryuji's
ambush instakill confidant ability a while back, and now that I'm in Mementos I'm beginning to see the problem with it. Level/money grinding just became way more of a pain.
 
I have all the elements, 2nd tier nuke spells, 2nd tier Psychic spells, cursed and blessed covered, I should be fine on that front. I don't have any OP Personas but I have some pretty good ones. I have no idea why I have white and red rider, but I have them. I just fused Okuniushi or whatever yesterday, Queen Mab as well. I usually try to stay decently up to date with these. I don't want to ditch my Ghost Rider persona, but it has to happen at some point.

Very good. Post your thoughts on the battle later.
 

LiK

Member
Aww nuts, I unlocked
Ryuji's
ambush instakill confidant ability a while back, and now that I'm in Mementos I'm beginning to see the problem with it. Level/money grinding just became way more of a pain.

You could just switch out party members or even take him outta the party.
 

muteki

Member
Aww nuts, I unlocked
Ryuji's
ambush instakill confidant ability a while back, and now that I'm in Mementos I'm beginning to see the problem with it. Level/money grinding just became way more of a pain.

I just intentionally delay pressing X until "ambush" switches to "attack".

It isn't as great as a true ambush but at least you get exp and money.
 

Brakke

Banned
Holy shit the unraveling of the interrogation on 11/20 was so good.
Ryuji's smile
at the end of the animation. 😘👌
 

Tamanon

Banned
Arahabaki was my bro for like 3 dungeons. Reflect Phy/Gun with only weakness to Psy and Nuke is preeeeeetty good. Also helped that I got Invigorate 3 on him.
 
Arahabaki was my bro for like 3 dungeons. Reflect Phy/Gun with only weakness to Psy and Nuke is preeeeeetty good. Also helped that I got Invigorate 3 on him.
I legit only used that thing as fusion food, no spells? Good bye. I tried to cling to Shiki-Ouji though, fucking wolf mecha statue thing.
 
Aww nuts, I unlocked
Ryuji's
ambush instakill confidant ability a while back, and now that I'm in Mementos I'm beginning to see the problem with it. Level/money grinding just became way more of a pain.
I've never had Ryuji ever interrupt or make farming money difficult in 210 hours of play time.
 

Dave1988

Member
I've never had Ryuji ever interrupt or make farming money difficult in 210 hours of play time.

The problem is that once you hit lvl 99 the instakill on ambush is basically guaranteed to go off everytime. Makes
Hifumi's
money boosting perk useless.

EDIT: Goddamnit! Double post. Sorry about that folks.
 
Wow, both Ryuji and Leo from FE: Fates share the same voice actor in Japanese and English. And Mittelman's range is incredible if he also did Leo.
The problem is that once you hit lvl 99 the instakill on ambush is basically guaranteed to go off everytime. Makes
Hifumi's
money boosting perk useless.

EDIT: Goddamnit! Double post. Sorry about that folks.
Nah, it's level 87. Also goodbye to one of Tower's abilities (but by that point killing the enemies isn't that hard/time consuming :p).
 
this dude continues to offer godawful alternatives and just sounds like an overall ass.

Like look at this shit

Put yourself in the shoes of an author and ask yourself: if you had to convey a particular character, which line would you choose to best express their personality?

A punkish character:

'It can't be helped.'
'This thing's out of our hands, yo.'

A formal character:

'It can't be helped.'
'This state of affairs simply cannot be altered.'

A shy character:

'It can't be helped.'
'I guess... i-if it's like that, we can't help it.'

A philosophical French character:

'It can't be helped.'
'C'est la vie.'

Except for maybe the fourth one, god no those are fucking terrible.

I'm not one to say you have to be able to do something in order to criticize it, but this guy has been constantly claiming towards being better at the job when hes been consistently worse.
 
this dude continues to offer godawful alternatives and just sounds like an overall ass.

Like look at this shit



Except for maybe the fourth one, god no those are fucking terrible.

I'm not one to say you have to be able to do something in order to criticize it, but this guy has been constantly claiming towards being better at the job when hes been consistently worse.

'This state of affairs simply cannot be altered.'
'I guess... i-if it's like that, we can't help it.'
Is this person serious? lol
 
this dude continues to offer godawful alternatives and just sounds like an overall ass.

Like look at this shit

Except for maybe the fourth one, god no those are fucking terrible.

I'm not one to say you have to be able to do something in order to criticize it, but this guy has been constantly claiming towards being better at the job when hes been consistently worse.

I honestly didn't think those examples were inherently bad, and would certainly still be better than using the same line for every single character in the game.

For example, remove "yo" from the punky character's line and it's a solid improvement, and with slight changes the other options are also undeniably better than "it can't be helped..." x4.

Even if the specific alternatives he suggests aren't undeniably perfect, they're still good examples for what he's trying to get across, and ones that I can agree with. It's not like he's outright saying he's better than all the translators and editors on staff at Atlus, he's simply pointing out issues that are indeed there.
 
I honestly didn't think those examples were inherently bad, and would certainly still be better than using the same line for every single character in the game.

For example, remove "yo" from the punky character's line and it's a solid improvement, and with slight changes the other options are also undeniably better than "it can't be helped..." x4.

Even if the specific alternatives he suggests aren't undeniably perfect, they're still good examples for what he's trying to get across, and ones that I can agree with. It's not like he's outright saying he's better than all the translators and editors on staff at Atlus, he's simply pointing out issues that are indeed there.

This has probably already been covered, but if all of the characters are saying the same thing, why would you translate it four different ways?
 
I honestly didn't think those examples were inherently bad, and would certainly still be better than using the same line for every single character in the game.

For example, remove "yo" from the punky character's line and it's a solid improvement, and with slight changes the other options are also undeniably better than "it can't be helped..." x4.

Even if the specific alternatives he suggests aren't undeniably perfect, they're still good examples for what he's trying to get across, and ones that I can agree with. It's not like he's outright saying he's better than all the translators and editors on staff at Atlus, he's simply pointing out issues that are indeed there.
even his punk one is terrible with the "thing's", no one says that. "Its out of our hands" sure, but not "this thing's out of our hands", even if you change the thing to the actual noun you are still failing to create a normal english sentence. His other two examples are even more egregious.

Hes not just pointing out whats bad, hes been actively claiming that he has better options, when in fact his options are consistently worse. As a freelance localization editor hes proving less capable than the work he is criticizing.

His entire article reads like a pompous ass touting their superiority at handling a task, made hilarious by the fact that he is worse than what hes criticizing.

Its not like hes even good at making a point. He offers 7 total examples and constantly fails to back up his points. The only one he bothers to really address is the phone call to Sae in the prologue. While spouting off pompous lines with the air that you are just expected to believe him "Persona 5's translation contains an impressive array of errors that can't be reproduced in full, but here are five choice samples:". Seriously, the whole game is fucked but its only worth mentioning 5, and then you dont even bother to describe what the issue is with them, just lay them out.

Meanwhile he spouts off things like "Errors range from grade-school grammatical flubs and character voice catastrophes to complete mistranslations that fundamentally alter the meaning of the text." without bothering to back any of the claims, especially when the middle is absolutely ridiculous.

Dudes a hack. P5 has plenty of translation errors, but I'd rather someone who knew what they were talking about to be the one trying to grandstand.

I think this guy believes he's better, than how he actually is.
pretty much
 
This has probably already been covered, but if all of the characters are saying the same thing, why would you translate it four different ways?

Character voice and tone. The base phrase can be translated different ways depending on the speaker, situation, and way it was said, but every instance of the phrase was translated the same way instead. In the end, Makoto talks the same way as Ryuji talks the same way as Haru talks the same way as Akechi whenever it comes up.
 
Character voice and tone. The base phrase can be translated different ways depending on the speaker, situation, and way it was said, but every instance of the phrase was translated the same way instead. In the end, Makoto talks the same way as Ryuji talks the same way as Haru talks the same way as Akechi whenever it comes up.

But isn't that how the original text is? They're all saying the same exact phrase, word for word. There's no variation based on voice or tone.
 

Curufinwe

Member
this dude continues to offer godawful alternatives and just sounds like an overall ass.

Like look at this shit



Except for maybe the fourth one, god no those are fucking terrible.

I'm not one to say you have to be able to do something in order to criticize it, but this guy has been constantly claiming towards being better at the job when hes been consistently worse.

All you did was call it "shit" without explaining why, and you're calling him an ass. What's fucking terrible is having multiple characters repeat the same stock phrase over and over again.
 
All you did was call it "shit" without explaining why, and you're calling him an ass. What's fucking terrible is having multiple characters repeat the same stock phrase over and over again.
Im posting on a forum for discussion, not the one grandstanding. I even clarified more in a followup post as a part of, you know, discussion
 

Curufinwe

Member
Im posting on a forum for discussion, not the one grandstanding. I even clarified more in a followup post as a part of, you know, discussion

You need to take your own advice on being able to do something better before criticizing it, since your criticisms of his alternatives are nothing but an angry stream of adjectives.
 
You need to take your own advice on being able to do something better before criticizing it, since your criticisms of his alternatives are nothing but an angry stream of adjectives.
Maybe you could read my posts. I specifically said that you dont have to be able to do something better in order to criticize it. Criticism doesn't work that way. I'm saying that this guy in trying to claim he can do it better is failing at doing just that.
 
You need to take your own advice on being able to do something better before criticizing it, since your criticisms of his alternatives are nothing but an angry stream of adjectives.

-the critic is exceedingly pompous
-the example translations are even more awkward and unnatural than P5's already dodgy translations

"This state of affairs simply cannot be altered." is so bad I would have thought it was a parody without context.
 
-the critic is exceedingly pompous
-the example translations are even more awkward and unnatural than P5's already dodgy translations

"This state of affairs simply cannot be altered." is so bad I would have thought it was a parody without context.

I didn't really see the critic being overly pompous - formal, maybe - but he doesn't say the people doing the work are incapable or anything like that.

Also, speaking of formality, "This state of affairs simply cannot be altered." wouldn't sound off at all if it came from a formal character like (Lategame/Endboss spoilers)
Yaldabaoth/Fake Igor.
 
Palace 5 done. Boss wasn't bad once I figured it hates getting hit with persona physical attacks and to block the special attack. Dude went out like a chump.
 
I didn't really see the critic being overly pompous - formal, maybe - but he doesn't say the people doing the work are incapable or anything like that.

Also, speaking of formality, that line wouldn't sound off at all if it came from a formal character like (Lategame/Endboss spoilers)
Yaldabaoth/Fake Igor.
When you make a grand claim like "Errors range from grade-school grammatical flubs and character voice catastrophes to complete mistranslations that fundamentally alter the meaning of the text." and don't back it up with anything, thats Pompous. Thats expecting someone to just believe you.
 
I didn't really see the critic being overly pompous - formal, maybe - but he doesn't say the people doing the work are incapable or anything like that.

Also, speaking of formality, "This state of affairs simply cannot be altered." wouldn't sound off at all if it came from a formal character like (Lategame/Endboss spoilers)
Yaldabaoth/Fake Igor.

ShadowSoldier89 already covered the thick air of superiority in the critic's tone, so I'll just say that "This state of affairs simply cannot be altered." isn't just formal, it's unnatural. It would probably fit that character because
they are an inhuman alien god
, but it's clear from the description that his translation was meant to match a character like Yusuke rather than
__Yaldy__
.
 
When you make a grand claim like "Errors range from grade-school grammatical flubs and character voice catastrophes to complete mistranslations that fundamentally alter the meaning of the text." and don't back it up with anything, thats Pompous. Thats expecting someone to just believe you.

Grammatical Flub: 'Suguru Kamoshida was a scum.'

Character voice catastrophes: All the examples of "It Can't Be Helped" and "As Expected of..." used multiple times.

Meaning Altering Mistranslation: The psychic detective mentioned in the article.

I won't bother defending the phrasing of that sentence specifically, as it is rather strongly worded, but he does back up what he says with the article.

It would probably fit that character because
they are an inhuman alien god
, but it's clear from the description that his translation was meant to match a character like Yusuke rather than
__Yaldy__
.

I think both can be called formal, and to say "Nuh uh, Yusuke is also formal, therefore it's wrong!" is moving goalposts a bit. The entire point is that different characters talk and say the same general thing differently - Yusuke is a different kind of formal than that character, and would say it differently than them too as a result.
 
Grammatical Flub: 'Suguru Kamoshida was a scum.'

Character voice catastrophes: All the examples of "It Can't Be Helped" and "As Expected of..." used multiple times.

Meaning Altering Mistranslation: The psychic detective mentioned in the article.

I won't bother defending the phrasing of that sentence specifically, as it is rather strong, but he does back up what he says with the article.
1) "Kamoshida was a scum" is completely grammatically correct. Its a bad line because no one talks like that, as the article is unnecessary. Considering scum is a noun the grammar is fine, for example you can say "He was a crook" the same as you can say "he was a scum". The issue isn't grammar, its word usage.

2) really. He just blankets out the use of "It can't be helped...". Where was it used in game though? Because there is no explanation. Are the scenes even voiced that hes referencing? I'd love to hear Makoto and Ryuji speak that line using the exact same tone. Maybe they did. I don't remember it. He certainly didn't show me that it happened. He doesn't even say which characters used the line.

3) this one is right.

If you are going to try and rapid fire a bunch of critiques. Follow them up directly. Something easy like

Lets start with the grammatical errors.
  • show some
  • grammar issues
  • and explain them

Then issues with the voice
  • repeat process
  • from
  • above

but he doesnt do that, instead you are left with a random set of items wondering how they fit his blanket statements.
 
1) "Kamoshida was a scum" is completely grammatically correct. Its a bad line because no one talks like that, as the particle is unnecessary. Considering scum is a noun the grammar is fine, for example you can say "He was a crook" the same as you can say "he was a scum". The issue isn't grammar, its word usage.

He goes into detail on this on his website, point #8. ("Kamoshida was scum.")

2) really. He just blankets out the use of "It can't be helped...". Where was it used in game though? Because there is no explanation. Are the scenes even voiced that hes referencing? I'd love to hear Makoto and Ryuji speak that line using the exact same tone. Maybe they did. I don't remember it. He certainly didn't show me that it happened. He doesn't even say which characters used the line.

He goes into detail on this on his website, point #17-18. (20 examples of usage from unrelated characters & moments.)

If you are going to try and rapid fire a bunch of critiques. Follow them up directly. Something easy like

but he doesnt do that, instead you are left with a random set of items wondering how they fit his blanket statements.

Sounds a lot like the website he put together, linked in this post and the article proper.
 
I think both can be called formal, and to say "Nuh uh, Yusuke is also formal, therefore it's wrong!" is moving goalposts a bit. The entire point is that different characters talk and say the same general thing differently - Yusuke is a different kind of formal than that character, and would say it differently than them too as a result.
The point is that the example isn't how an actual person would speak, and in the context of "generic punk character" and "generic shy character", it seems unlikely that the critic's intent was for the line to be
"alien god whose speech is archaic and unnatural"
.

And that's not even getting into "if it's like that, we can't help it" which is exactly the kind of awkward, unnatural translation that the critic is looking down on. You could stick that phrase into "babby's first doujin translation" and it would be indistinguishable.
 
why didnt he bother to actually put any of that in his dumbass article.

Still, the "It cant be helped" still falls flat. His "As to be expected" example is a lot better. I can pick out over half the lines for "It can't be helped" and they never appear awkward.

His criticisms on his website are greatly improved over the article (he never tried to claim "is a scum" is grammatically incorrect either, only pointing out the issue the same as I did, which continues the issues with the article never elaborating on grammatical issues), however his ability to create english lines is still poor. Fortunately he doesnt seem to bother much on the website coming up with too many corrected lines and sticks to pointing out issues.

EDIT: Nevermind, I see his Alt view button and he continues to be absolutely terrible at providing alternatives.
 
P5's translation is rough in many places but I think it's gotten to the point that people have started looking for problems where there really aren't any. The problem is repeated phrases and iffy wordings and grammar--stretching that out to say that the characters don't have any individual voice is taking it too far. The site's attempt at comparing Teddie and Morgana is just ridiculous.
 
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