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PES 2012 Playmaker Wii |OT| of teamwork gameplay + AI testbed for the lesser versions
- Thread starter Datschge
- Start date
The DS PESes were stopped after 2008, and up to that point it was a direct continuation of the PES games on GBA. They were like horribly updated versions of the SNES' ISS, no touch input, no charm.ElFly said:
I think the amount of unique polish a Wii U PES might get fully depends on whether the Playmaker team is still allowed to experiment independently from the rest of the staff. Who knows, considering this year's update is limited to roster and AI tweaks the team may well work on Wii U already.
In other news, finally found someone online for a couple of matches. Feels much better than in 2011, passes actually arrive (unless intercepted, of course), even if they are misplaced the players try to reposition themselves to receive the ball. Have a hard time canceling movements as it seems no longer possible online. Headers after crosses are much easier to defend now. Still some oddities, but I'll get to play more different people this evening so we will see how much depends on the net code and how much on the connection quality.
Half a dozen online matches later I can say that it's much improved over last years' version. The connection has to be quite bad for affecting the gameplay, at that point the game can turn into a slideshow (happened against one user to whom I never had a good connection before anyway). But the perfectly playable state is much more prevalent so far than it was in 2011 (note that this shouldn't change later when more user go online as connections are p2p afaik).
8BitsAtATime
Member
Im so ready for this, I preordered mine 3 months ago. This may be the last wii game I buy this year.
Started Champions Road (for the first time since 2008 :lol), the importance of formations (and the tactical bias shown as 1-5 in the bottom left corner) has increased again. Unlike in 2011 AI movement is not limited by the directional arrows, instead those arrows are back tobeing the tool to tell the AI where to deviate from the set formation.
One huge improvement is much better collisions detection. At least a lot of animations in which collisions were unaccounted for in 2011 (most noticeable jumps) are now resolved much more realistically. This made e.g. goals through crosses to headers harder to execute and easier to defend against. In general players seem to run into each other less often unless on purpose. On the other hand balls get deflected/blocked more often, and the bounced ball has exaggerated accelerations less often.
Individually through variation in values seem to have increased as well. Players with high technique, response and dribble accuracy can't really run straight through opponents, but their abilities often allow them to quickly pick up deflected/blocked balls again in very small areas which results in some realistic depictions of such duels.
One huge improvement is much better collisions detection. At least a lot of animations in which collisions were unaccounted for in 2011 (most noticeable jumps) are now resolved much more realistically. This made e.g. goals through crosses to headers harder to execute and easier to defend against. In general players seem to run into each other less often unless on purpose. On the other hand balls get deflected/blocked more often, and the bounced ball has exaggerated accelerations less often.
Individually through variation in values seem to have increased as well. Players with high technique, response and dribble accuracy can't really run straight through opponents, but their abilities often allow them to quickly pick up deflected/blocked balls again in very small areas which results in some realistic depictions of such duels.
Due to the input delay introduced in 2011 to fix the net code the right way, the correct time for the keeper to jump was mostly obfuscated as there's no helpful feedback through the resulting animations.RandomVince said:
I've bought each version of PES on wii since the series was created, and no surprise, this the best one so far 
Collision detection is better, AI is better and the pace of the game has been slightly increased.
I just played a flawless online game, and so I'm in love again with this gem.
I'll post more impressions later, I saw they added a new view on corners. I'll discuss the small new things like that.
Collision detection is better, AI is better and the pace of the game has been slightly increased. I just played a flawless online game, and so I'm in love again with this gem.
I'll post more impressions later, I saw they added a new view on corners. I'll discuss the small new things like that.
I honestly have no idea, control wise it always was the best football game ever. And for the last couple years it also has the best football AI behavior currently on the market. It's by far not perfect, but the sales it gets are a huge shame considering its quality.Snakeyes said:
Regarding learning curve I still stand by what I stated before: The Playmaker controls are easier to pick up and learn and also more intuitive than traditional controls (especially now that Konami tries to shoehorn some of the playmaker features into the traditional button/dual stick layout). The latter is just the more widespread control, and that existing audience knowing the traditional control is avoiding checking out the different approach.
Datschge said:
I kind of see what you're saying, and I agree that perhaps the playmaker style is more intuitive (makes more sense), but it's also harder, you can't deny that. There's a lot more you have to be aware of and doing at the same time - it's more complicated than the traditional way. Of course, it's worth learning & gives you, in theory, a much better, more challenging, more fluid game. But sometimes I also feel, just holding and using the wii remote & nun-chuck for a few games in a row isn't the most comfortable controller to use... another strike against the wii. For me though, the two main problems are the lackluster, ten year old graphics engine and the wii online set-up. Both issues which should be fixed on the next Nintendo console - so I've got my fingers crossed it'll get a similar controlling game and not just the same 360/ps3 crap.
You can do more, but you can also just stick to what you'd do with traditional controls. For the latter it's both easier to learn and more reliable. Nobody forces anyone to try to control everything in playmaker, and with the last couple versions you often are actually better off knowing when to restrain as the AI can do good work as well if not better. On the other hand with traditional controls trying to control a specific player and doing a pass into a specific direction is what used to drive me nuts more often than not, the point & click control to do that in playmaker should be natural to anyone who ever used a mouse on a computer.
I personally don't care much about the graphics, in the standard zoomed out field view they are serviceable enough to not hinder the gameplay. The advantage from going HD would be having more details and thus allowing for an even bigger field of view, something I've certainly wanted several times. I honestly find the focus on realism of stadia, players' faces etc. pretty hilarious as they are of no worth during such gameplay, only for close up sequences and replays (and in the first couple versions those were indeed so ugly I wished I could disabled them altogether ...actually I still want that feature instead having to cancel manually every time to save time =P).
I personally don't care much about the graphics, in the standard zoomed out field view they are serviceable enough to not hinder the gameplay. The advantage from going HD would be having more details and thus allowing for an even bigger field of view, something I've certainly wanted several times. I honestly find the focus on realism of stadia, players' faces etc. pretty hilarious as they are of no worth during such gameplay, only for close up sequences and replays (and in the first couple versions those were indeed so ugly I wished I could disabled them altogether ...actually I still want that feature instead having to cancel manually every time to save time =P).
I have played a dozen more matches since my last post.
No words could convey how FANTASTIC this version is. Don't get fooled thinking this game is a copy paste from last year (special message to Puyo from Gamekult). If you were able to differentiate say a Winning eleven 5 from a Winning Eleven 6 Final Edition, you know what I am talking about.
Player statistics are better represented on the field. The IA has been tweaked, players you are not manually handling are smarter than previous years. New collisions animations have been added, making the game more realistic in lots of situations. Ball has more weight, the speed has been increased. It's fast. It's ruthless. It's BRILLIANT!
Beyond gameplay enhancements, online is now flawless, a first in the series))
I played 4 Barça - Real matches yesterday and it was amazing football. Amazing football.
Compared to this, PES and FIFA on PS3 feel limited, automated, on rails, simple arcade titles. I don't want to offend anyone fan of these games- that I also own, but that's how I feel.
And so this is my GOTY so far. Past years I always had PES Wii in my top 3. While I have mostly been disappointed by big games I played in 2011, I didn't expect PES 2012 to surprise me once more. I'll play onlines matches for months, so buy this game and join me!
No words could convey how FANTASTIC this version is. Don't get fooled thinking this game is a copy paste from last year (special message to Puyo from Gamekult). If you were able to differentiate say a Winning eleven 5 from a Winning Eleven 6 Final Edition, you know what I am talking about.
Player statistics are better represented on the field. The IA has been tweaked, players you are not manually handling are smarter than previous years. New collisions animations have been added, making the game more realistic in lots of situations. Ball has more weight, the speed has been increased. It's fast. It's ruthless. It's BRILLIANT!
Beyond gameplay enhancements, online is now flawless, a first in the series
))I played 4 Barça - Real matches yesterday and it was amazing football. Amazing football.
Compared to this, PES and FIFA on PS3 feel limited, automated, on rails, simple arcade titles. I don't want to offend anyone fan of these games- that I also own, but that's how I feel.
And so this is my GOTY so far. Past years I always had PES Wii in my top 3. While I have mostly been disappointed by big games I played in 2011, I didn't expect PES 2012 to surprise me once more. I'll play onlines matches for months, so buy this game and join me!
marc^o^ said:I have played a dozen more matches since my last post.
No words could convey how FANTASTIC this version is. Don't get fooled thinking this game is a copy paste from last year (special message to Puyo from Gamekult). If you were able to differentiate say a Winning eleven 5 from a Winning Eleven 6 Final Edition, you know what I am talking about.
Player statistics are better represented on the field. The IA has been tweaked, players you are not manually handling are smarter than previous years. New collisions animations have been added, making the game more realistic in lots of situations. Ball has more weight, the speed has been increased. It's fast. It's ruthless. It's BRILLIANT!
Beyond gameplay enhancements, online is now flawless, a first in the series
I played 4 Barça - Real matches yesterday and it was amazing football. Amazing football.
Compared to this, PES and FIFA on PS3 feel limited, automated, on rails, simple arcade titles. I don't want to offend anyone fan of these games- that I also own, but that's how I feel.
And so this is my GOTY so far. Past years I always had PES Wii in my top 3. While I have mostly been disappointed by big games I played in 2011, I didn't expect PES 2012 to surprise me once more. I'll play onlines matches for months, so buy this game and join me!
Where did you find it ? It's not out in France yet ???
Hrm, what is this with the release date differing so much within Europe? (Sweden seems to get it later as well.)fabprems said:
I guess you could import the German version as that game also includes French and Greek (just like all the previous versions). You'd have to live with a German manual then (but it has the exact same content as the last version anyway).
marc^o^ said:I have played a dozen more matches since my last post.
No words could convey how FANTASTIC this version is. Don't get fooled thinking this game is a copy paste from last year (special message to Puyo from Gamekult). If you were able to differentiate say a Winning eleven 5 from a Winning Eleven 6 Final Edition, you know what I am talking about.
Player statistics are better represented on the field. The IA has been tweaked, players you are not manually handling are smarter than previous years. New collisions animations have been added, making the game more realistic in lots of situations. Ball has more weight, the speed has been increased. It's fast. It's ruthless. It's BRILLIANT!
Beyond gameplay enhancements, online is now flawless, a first in the series
I played 4 Barça - Real matches yesterday and it was amazing football. Amazing football.
Compared to this, PES and FIFA on PS3 feel limited, automated, on rails, simple arcade titles. I don't want to offend anyone fan of these games- that I also own, but that's how I feel.
And so this is my GOTY so far. Past years I always had PES Wii in my top 3. While I have mostly been disappointed by big games I played in 2011, I didn't expect PES 2012 to surprise me once more. I'll play onlines matches for months, so buy this game and join me!
Awesome. Sounds like it will be a good send off for the series. Glad I'm picking it up.
Datschge said:
My Code:
2967 1889 8332
You should at me too, though im playing classic style. Got the game yesterday and so far its pretty good.
Would be good if the OP would list all GAF Fc in the first post or do we have an online/community thread?
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
How is the netcode?
Just want to get it in order to play with a chum who has moved t'up north.
All good?
Just want to get it in order to play with a chum who has moved t'up north.
All good?
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
I've ordered it.
Edit: Still hasn't arrived.
I'm dying to get involved with Master League again.
Edit: Still hasn't arrived.
I'm dying to get involved with Master League again.
A couple new matches videos (six atm) can be found on a friend's youtube as my Viddler account was closed due to them moving to paid-only accounts...
Does anybody bother with the reviews? To me it seems everyone complains about it being the same as last year and barely any talk about balancing and netcode, making the reviews worthless as replayability relies on good balance and working netcode which is exactly where PES 2012 Wii is the best PES ever... But I'm considering looking for reviews just to see who bothers at all.
play-wii.org's (PAL) next playmaker league season is open for registration until next weekend in case someone is interested.
Does anybody bother with the reviews? To me it seems everyone complains about it being the same as last year and barely any talk about balancing and netcode, making the reviews worthless as replayability relies on good balance and working netcode which is exactly where PES 2012 Wii is the best PES ever... But I'm considering looking for reviews just to see who bothers at all.
play-wii.org's (PAL) next playmaker league season is open for registration until next weekend in case someone is interested.
8BitsAtATime
Member
Ive been playing it nonstop. I dont play online because i know I'll get massacred but I still love them game. This might be the last wii game I buy but I can see myself 100+ hours in it. Ive been switching of between this and PES 2011 3ds....any words on the 12' 3ds game?
Damn all of you with this game already. Ive been playing PES 2011 the past few days and its finally beginning to click. Incidentally I beat Manchester 'Blue' with Tyneside in a 3-1 thriller, so that was something satisfying. Especially nutmegging De Jong on the way to goal.
I ordered the 2012 edition from gameplay.co.uk who had it for 14.99 GBP, plus 5 GBP shipping. Should hopefully arrive this week (australia).
I ordered the 2012 edition from gameplay.co.uk who had it for 14.99 GBP, plus 5 GBP shipping. Should hopefully arrive this week (australia).
Some, it appears to have online and is announced for release in Japan on December 8th, with an European release coming sometime in February it seems. Should get an own OT though.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Scr-emo? Jesus.
I've missed Master League so much.
Edit:
Man, I really have missed this game. Just had some matches and talking on skype; so much fun.
I will add the people in the opening post as well.
Wii Friend Code:
3697 3462 2417
I've missed Master League so much.
Edit:
Man, I really have missed this game. Just had some matches and talking on skype; so much fun.
I will add the people in the opening post as well.
Wii Friend Code:
3697 3462 2417
The upcoming Winning Eleven Online MMO appears to be based on PES Wii, see its own thread.
Little Green Yoda
Member
Not going to get this year's version since I bought last year's and there doesn't seem to be major changes. But seeing this thread makes want to pop PES back in the Wii though. PES and MH3 are literally the only Wii games I've played the past 12 months
. Gonna have to relearn a lot of the controls though.
mostly Monster Hunter though
I wonder what they would say when, hopefully, this title gets a HD make-over for the WiiU.
Not going to get this year's version since I bought last year's and there doesn't seem to be major changes. But seeing this thread makes want to pop PES back in the Wii though. PES and MH3 are literally the only Wii games I've played the past 12 months. Gonna have to relearn a lot of the controls though.mostly Monster Hunter though
If you don't consider optimized balance and netcode major changes, that is. I know this stuff gets dissed as copy/paste everywhere (all those useless superficial reviews), but I personally consider near flawless balance and netcode way more important than (usually not yet polished and balanced) new features, and PES 2012 delivered on the former. But yeah, if next year's version does the same again I'd hesitate as well how perfect it is now already. If you play a lot this year's one is fully worth it even over last year (offline and especially online).
I wish anyone would talk about Winning Eleven Online (which essentially seems to be classic controlled online PES Wii in HD on PC), but I only succeeded in creating a topic even less active than this one. -_-;;
After the gaf impressions on the series
I bought my first PES game on any system. its a long learning curve with the wiimote, but its well worth it
If anyone wants to play: FC: 1678 7331 8443
Also... All of the FC on the OP seem to be wrong, the game keeps telling that they are wrong......
I bought my first PES game on any system. its a long learning curve with the wiimote, but its well worth it
If anyone wants to play: FC: 1678 7331 8443
Also... All of the FC on the OP seem to be wrong, the game keeps telling that they are wrong......
Are you in America/NTSC? Everyone in the OP so far is from PALand afaik, so you might just have confirmed that FCs are restricted by regions.
Didnt know this.... but yes my version is NTSC. So you can confirm that...
The codes are by region... wich i would say sucks....
Even though i have been finding pretty good matches random online
There are some serious players out there. I barely survive with Real Madrid. But everyone uses Barca... its so overpowered
Winnie the Pimp
Member
bumping this since i JUST got the 2010 version but there is no other more recent thread on the playmaker PES versions so here goes:
Loving it so far EXCEPT for the fact that i have no clue how to do MANUAL SHOOTING, the tutorial wasn't really clear for me in this case, all i manage is to flick the Nunchuck when i am ready to shoot but that will do an AUTO SHOT and i want to know if there is a reliable way to shoot manually akin to the non playmaker PES versions?
Loving it so far EXCEPT for the fact that i have no clue how to do MANUAL SHOOTING, the tutorial wasn't really clear for me in this case, all i manage is to flick the Nunchuck when i am ready to shoot but that will do an AUTO SHOT and i want to know if there is a reliable way to shoot manually akin to the non playmaker PES versions?
Playmaker or classic controls? With playmaker controls you can do "targeted shots using B button" since PES 2009 as stated in the OP. Before PES 2012 the pointer needed to be located within the goal area (not just behind the goal line but outside of the goal) to be detected as a shot instead a pass.
The thing about shooting in PES Wii is that it essentially simulates the players trying to make the best shot possible based on the exact input timing, the exact stance the player has in that moment and his ability values. The more ideal all of these parts come together the harder and more precise the shot will turn out. The targeted shots using B button forces the player AI to try less ideal combinations.
However since more precision also means less spread, the most "ideal" case turns out to be shot targeted at the center of the goal which usually is also where the goalkeeper is placed. So (based on their ability stats, in this case shooting accuracy and shooting technique) very good scorers may shoot on the goalkeeper too often, in that case the mentioned targeted shots may be more successful (but due to all the possible influences this highly depends on one's personal playing style).
However since more precision also means less spread, the most "ideal" case turns out to be shot targeted at the center of the goal which usually is also where the goalkeeper is placed. So (based on their ability stats, in this case shooting accuracy and shooting technique) very good scorers may shoot on the goalkeeper too often, in that case the mentioned targeted shots may be more successful (but due to all the possible influences this highly depends on one's personal playing style).