Support NeoGAF

[Thebeardofknowledge]

Great story

 

[Shifty]

Was expecting a FZZ thread based on the title.

Fascinating story though, gives some interesting perspective on Sega as a company.

 

[BennyBlanco]

That Rockstar description is slaughtering me

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Yuji Naka's behaviour is a textbook example of someone who thinks more like a corporate drone and as a result, has fallen on deaf ears to legit criticisms. I've worked with these types of people for years, and it always amazes me how immune to criticisms they think they are, and then they wonder why they aren't as successful as they could have been.

 

[Stereogatari]

I wonder how he would characterise Yamauchi's Nintendo

 

[Hydrus]

Lmao. I want more of these types of game industry stories.

SEGA - Your grandad. Used to be cool, but even he can't remember why anymore.

Ouch lol

 

[mikezilla2]

Yuji Naka's behaviour is a textbook example of someone who thinks more like a corporate drone and as a result, has fallen on deaf ears to legit criticisms. I've worked with these types of people for years, and it always amazes me how immune to criticisms they think they are, and then they wonder why they aren't as successful as they could have been.

it seems like a cualture thing more than anything with regards to how he responded

 

[bobeth]

it seems like a cualture thing more than anything with regards to how he responded

It's straight up rejecting reality. The equivalent of shouting FAKE NEWS!

 

[BrassDragon]

Thought this was pretty funny. Back in his SEGA days, Peter Moore was asked to conduct a survey in the US with the following question - 'If a video game publisher was a relative or a friend, who would they be?

This.

This genius level shit is why the MBAs earn more than the programmers.

 

[Van Bur3n]

I remember watching an IGN podcast with all of the big Xbox names through the years that had Phil Spencer, Peter Moore, and Seamus Blackley (creator of the Xbox console). Peter Moore had some interesting stories to tell with his history there as well.

Definitely a guy who has seen a lot throughout the industry.

 

[TetraGenesis]

Haha, weird.

The Yuji Naka I'm friends with on Facebook is like world's daddest dad. Posts nothing but outings with his kids and race cars. Weird to imagine him in a setting like this.

What is this fucking humble brag? Hahahahahaha

 

[FZZ]

Was expecting a FZZ thread based on the title.

Fascinating story though, gives some interesting perspective on Sega as a company.

wtf is this supposed to mean

 

[PAULINK]

wow, I don't hate yuji naka, but mad respect for peter moore for doing that.

 

[BiggNife]

3. Gave us the mindblowing dungeons in Phantasy Star, Sonic, NiGHTS, Burning Rangers & a ton of classics

There is no denying that Naka was talented but he was also an enormous dick and was a large factor in Sonic Xtreme getting canceled.

And while he was definitely instrumental in the development of Sonic 1 as the programmer, I hate when he is called "The Father of Sonic" as if no one else was involved. Sonic himself isn't his creation, that was all Naoto Ooshima.

 

[K.Jack]

Imagine if there was a unified company vision between SoJ and the western branches, basically,

Scary, that Nintendo learned nothing, from that mistake.

 

[Renekton]

I'd say Sega's problem is they backed the wrong developers. All the stories of Yuji Naka paint him as very egotistical and driving away other creative forces. Sega put him in charge of Sonic because he wrote the code for the game when the one who should have been in charge was Hirokazu Yasuhara (Carol Yas), who was in charge of overall game design and level design for the Genesis Sonic games.

The concept of an egotistical coder is so foreign to me. So this is very interesting.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

The concept of an egotistical coder is so foreign to me.

clearly not a programmer ^

 

[mieumieu]

What is this fucking humble brag? Hahahahahaha

Granted stressful work environment can drive a lot of 'normal' people crazy.

I have worked with some programmers from Japan who can be an ass a lot of times too but most of the times they are good people.

clearly not a programmer ^

Haha true. We are proud of our work and gets defensive when others said we were wrong.

 

[SURGEdude]

It's funny he had a love hate relationship with Yuji, because it's the same one I have with him.

He's both one of the best minds in on the biz end of the industry, and also a consummate bullshit artist.

This game has worse Peters either way.

 

[down 2 orth]

Even the yakuza Japanese have too much class than to put up with that kind of shit.

 

[SURGEdude]

There is probably a book to be written about Sega America versus Sega Japan bullshit from the 90's to the death of the dreamcast.

From what I can tell Sega JPN lost their fucking minds after the Saturn launch.

Not that NA would have survived until today, but jesus. I can't think of a single story where the big-shots in Japan don't seem like they were insane at the time. Talk about a (ever shrinking) bubble.

The fact that the Dreamcast was incredible feels like it happened against all odds.

 

[Renekton]

clearly not a programmer ^

10+ years coding for a living 😙

I've seen dogmatic, defensive, passive aggressive or eccentric but almost never egotistical.

 

[HardRojo]

LMAO I can imagine the translator looking at Peter with that "I beg you, please, don't make me say it" look.

 

[Giftofgab24]

This was before they made trash though... Anyway who did he ask, a bunch of punk brats? Who the hell would even answer these questions like that?

Me. Definitely me.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Didn't this come from the Unfiltered interview with Ryan?

I remember hearing that survey thing a while back.

 

[Hexer06]

Haha, that's great. He seems like a pretty cool guy from the interviews I've seen. My fav interview, and possibly the best interview ever, was the one on IGN that had Peter Moore, Phil Spencer, and Seamus Blackley. Wish it was 20 times longer and I would've listened to the whole thing, lol. Lots of awesome behind-the-scenes info in that one.

 

[Shifty]

wtf is this supposed to mean

Gangster shit fr fr fam

Lmon

 

[Chittagong]

I didn't think I could have more respect for Peter Moore but here we are.

 

[Celine]

Scary, that Nintendo learned nothing, from that mistake.

In the case of Nintendo, there was always an unified vision since the '80s and that's the one from NCL.

There is no denying that Naka was talented but he was also an enormous dick and was a large factor in Sonic Xtreme getting canceled.

My belief is that the main responsible of Sonic Saturn debacle was Sega management (the higher ups).
I mean I understand if Sonic Team is tired of working on Sonic franchise and thus you give them to work on a new IP at the beginning of the generation which is when strong new IP prosper however Sega management had to have another top talent dev team with big funding focused on the next big Sonic game for Saturn well before the console is out.
From all the talk about Xtreme it seem to have been just a side project with little funding.
It's unacceptable how Sega management acted on that matter (same for the whole 32X project, there is so much wrong with that one).

 

[AzureSkies]

In the case of Nintendo, there was always an unified vision since the '80s and that's the one from NCL.


My belief is that the main responsible of Sonic Saturn debacle was Sega management (the higher ups).
I mean I understand if Sonic Team is tired of working on Sonic franchise and thus you give them to work on a new IP at the beginning of the generation which is when strong new IP prosper however Sega management had to have another top talent dev team with big funding focused on the next big Sonic game for Saturn well before the console is out.
From all the talk about Xtreme it seem to have been just a side project with little funding.
It's unacceptable how Sega management acted on that matter (same for the whole 32X project, there is so much wrong with that one).

You're entirely right about XTreme, from what I can gather for most of the projects life the development team was 2-4 guys. No idea why Sega of America ever thought that was an acceptable way to treat their biggest IP.

It honestly also didn't look too hot until it got the NiGHTS Engine and was shortly canned afterwards. There was a further pitch for a PC version which is where most of the YouTube videos come from, but that just looks really weird to me and not that fun to play. Very confusing imho.

 

[TheDinoman]

You're entirely right about XTreme, from what I can gather for most of the projects life the development team was 2-4 guys. No idea why Sega of America ever thought that was an acceptable way to treat their biggest IP.

It honestly also didn't look too hot until it got the NiGHTS Engine and was shortly canned afterwards. There was a further pitch for a PC version which is where most of the YouTube videos come from, but that just looks really weird to me and not that fun to play. Very confusing imho.

It just seemed so misguided in every way.

Like, obviously it was intended to be the Saturn's answer to the 64's Mario 64 and the Playstation's Crash Bandicoot, but unlike those games, they couldn't even bother to use fully 3D polygonal models, instead opting for a tacky 2.5D style. Even if it had came out, it would of just look so lame and dated in comparison to its competitors at the time.

Really should of looked more in line with Sonic Jam's Sonic World.

 

[SNURB]

Was there ever a time where Yuji Naka didn't act like a complete asshole?

 

[Snakethesniper]

 

[Murkas]

Lol Peter Moore would've fucking banged him out.

 

[RichardAM]

Peter Moore is great. Didnt always like what he was trying to sell but was always good fun at E3 and in the interviews.

This story cements it. Top guy!

 

[Dusk Golem]

Was there ever a time where Yuji Naka didn't act like a complete asshole?

He's calmed down a lot since he left SEGA. As someone posted earlier, he's active on Facebook and what he mostly post about is his family and racecars. He's become quite the family man and seems to spend a lot of time with his kids.

 

[hidys]

It's cool to see Peter Moore opening up about his past now that he is out of the industry.

 

[Axass]

Yuji Naka was a prick, news at eleven.

Nice insight about what happened between him and Sega though. lol

 

[jjasso21]

Hilarious story! First time I heard it, but Peter Moore definitely deserves respect.

 

[Schopenhauerian]

He's calmed down a lot since he left SEGA. As someone posted earlier, he's active on Facebook and what he mostly post about is his family and racecars. He's become quite the family man and seems to spend a lot of time with his kids.

Yeah, Naka also recently shared a link to a Sonic fan game (Sonic Utopia) on facebook, which I imagine must have been pretty exciting for the devs: https://www.facebook.com/nakayuji/posts/1504052942955166

Yuji Naka shared about Sonic Utopia

Also seems like he can be pretty gracious towards former rivals, in his better moments.

 

[GabeTheGrouch76]

What a wild story. Also not surprised about Naka's reaction, there are several stories out there (especially the supposed Sonic X-treme one) that have portrayed Naka as quite the egotistical man back in the day.

I'd say Sega's problem is they backed the wrong developers. All the stories of Yuji Naka paint him as very egotistical and driving away other creative forces. Sega put him in charge of Sonic because he wrote the code for the game when the one who should have been in charge was Hirokazu Yasuhara (Carol Yas), who was in charge of overall game design and level design for the Genesis Sonic games.

Can't agree with this enough, it's no surprise both Yasuhara and Ohshima had both walked from Sega as a whole during the Adventure era. And even then, Naka was more focused on making original titles, his involvement in Sonic titles up until he quit for Prope shifted to a background "(executive) producer" role. Iizuka had the real keys to the kingdom in terms of creative control starting with Adventure, and it really shows with how Sonic game design and quality gradually threw itself off a cliff starting with that game.

 

[spookyfish]

So I said to the translator, 'Tell him to fuck off.' And the poor guy looks at me and says, 'There's no expression in Japanese.' I said, 'I know there is.' And that was it. That was the last time I ever set foot in there," Moore explains.

 

[timmyp53]

lol same

 

[Gestault]

失せろ, くそ くらえ, or うぜんだよ, if anyone's wondering.

 

[Schopenhauerian]

...My belief is that the main responsible of Sonic Saturn debacle was Sega management (the higher ups). I mean I understand if Sonic Team is tired of working on Sonic franchise and thus you give them to work on a new IP at the beginning of the generation which is when strong new IP prosper however Sega management had to have another top talent dev team with big funding focused on the next big Sonic game for Saturn well before the console is out. From all the talk about Xtreme it seem to have been just a side project with little funding. It's unacceptable how Sega management acted on that matter (same for the whole 32X project, there is so much wrong with that one).

You're entirely right about XTreme, from what I can gather for most of the projects life the development team was 2-4 guys. No idea why Sega of America ever thought that was an acceptable way to treat their biggest IP...

I'd say Sega's problem is they backed the wrong developers. All the stories of Yuji Naka paint him as very egotistical and driving away other creative forces. Sega put him in charge of Sonic because he wrote the code for the game when the one who should have been in charge was Hirokazu Yasuhara (Carol Yas), who was in charge of overall game design and level design for the Genesis Sonic games.

...Can't agree with this enough, it's no surprise both Yasuhara and Ohshima had both walked from Sega as a whole during the Adventure era. And even then, Naka was more focused on making original titles, his involvement in Sonic titles up until he quit for Prope shifted to a background "(executive) producer" role. Iizuka had the real keys to the kingdom in terms of creative control starting with Adventure, and it really shows with how Sonic game design and quality gradually threw itself off a cliff starting with that game.

Interesting points. BlazeHedgehog went into some detail on some of this (Naka doesn't look good at all here), though A Black Falcon notes that it wasn’t initially/primarily/solely the Stolar/Naka/NiGHTS scenario (which in itself seems like it could've been handled a bit better) that was responsible for the demise of Sonic X-treme.

And I do still like what Sonic Team (including Naka, Ohshima, Iizuka) was able came up with, after Yasuhara left:

http://shmuplations.com/alife/
Naka: Yeah. That was part of our message to players: NiGHTS is a different kind of game from what has come before. I think there will be players who, after seeing that no matter how fast they fly, they aren’t getting the A rank, will start to question the value of flying fast. So yeah, whether it be through the A-Life system or the ranking system, those elements are messages from us to the players, and the players who understand them will find NiGHTS fun, but those who never get the message will probably stop playing. Whenever you try to do something new, there’s always going to be trade-offs and sacrifices somewhere… that’s the dilemma.

Naka: But there are also many people who are bored with games that all feel the same. It is precisely for them that we’ve endeavored to create something new. To be honest, if we were only thinking about the risk, we should have just created an RPG or vs. FTG game. But because there’s so many games in those genres, I think players are starting to get tired of them. If the same kind of games keep getting made, eventually you’ll end up with a community made up of only hardcore players; it’s not a healthy direction for the games industry overall. With NiGHTS, we hope to do our small part in revitalizing this industry...

Iizuka: ...We spent a great deal of time working out the core mechanics of NiGHTS—many, many hours. We had meeting after meeting refining that core, making sure it was solid and well-made...

http://shmuplations.com/nights/
Naka: Initially we were very resistant to using polygons—I was extremely against it. We didn’t think we could create appealing characters with polygons. With traditional pixel sprite art, our designers knew how to be very expressive, but we just didn’t see how we could convey that with a character rendered in simple polygons. But one of our designers said “let’s just try it.” I was really stubborn about it all. Some of that was probably just the typical authority complex of a Producer. (laughs) As we experimented with 2D, however, and the “dream” theme came into focus, we soon realized that the best way to bring this dreamworld to life and give it a proper sense of “reality” was with 3D polygons (actually, at first we tried pre-rendered CG sprites). I’m very glad now that we went with polygons...

Naka: The movies portray the dreams of Claris and Elliot, but we wanted them to appear fairly realistic. It was our intention to make it hard for the player to discern where that exact boundary between dreams and reality was, with the movies. But to be honest I was also against the movies at first. I didn’t think we needed them. But Ohshima said they were a must, so… first they created storyboards and a screenplay, and seeing those made me realize it could work out, and I gave the go-sign. Even then I was worried though. Couldn’t we do this without CG movies? But in the end, I’m glad we added them. They give a goal for players who want to see them, and they allow players to get more emotionally involved. Really, I’m so glad we made them—and this experience really changed the way I think about movies and games. I wouldn’t even mind seeing a whole feature-length movie in this style, even...

Ohshima: But there was a lot of trial and error before we came up with the character Nights. The initial reason we made Nights a human character is that we didn’t want to do another animal-human hybrid like Sonic; however, Nights’ final design was more informed by our gameplay idea of a character who glides and soars through the sky with ease. We wanted the design to evoke a certain nostalgia, but also to feel new… I think we spent most of our effort on making sure it didn’t look too old-fashioned...

Naka: As we did with Sonic, again with NiGHTS we conducted some very thorough market research on what kids enjoy today. We placed a special emphasis on the American and Japanese markets. But we got a very encouraging response from England, too, so I’m hoping NiGHTS will be a game that helps us really break into the European market...