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Philippines' Duterte says can't stop China developing shoal

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Source: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...an-t-stop-china-developing-shoal/3608172.html

MANILA: Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said Sunday (Mar 19) he could not stop China from building on a disputed shoal near his country's west coast because it was too powerful.

The mayor of China's Sansha city has reportedly said his country would set up an environmental monitoring station on Scarborough Shoal, which China seized control of from the Philippines in 2012.

"We cannot stop China from doing (these) things," Duterte told journalists when asked about the reports.

"What do you want me to do? Declare war against China? I can't. We will lose all our military and policemen tomorrow and we (will be) a destroyed nation," he told a press conference before departing for a visit to Myanmar.

Duterte said he would tell the Chinese: "Just keep it (the waters) open and do not interfere with our coast guard."

The Philippines under Duterte's predecessor Benigno Aquino had actively challenged China's claim to control most of the South China Sea, despite counter-claims by several other nations.

However Duterte, who took office last year, has reversed that policy and is seeking billions of dollars worth of investments and grants from Beijing.

"We are now improving the economy because of the help of China. Why will you be so shameless just because they are passing by?" he told reporters on Sunday.

I thought Duterte was suppose to be a tough guy?
 

Xando

Member
"What do you want me to do? Declare war against China? I can't. We will lose all our military and policemen tomorrow and we (will be) a destroyed nation," he told a press conference before departing for a visit to Myanmar.

I mean he's not wrong
 

Xando

Member
But the internet told me that China's navy is puny and can't therefore project power beyond its borders.

It's definitely not enough to start wars on the other side of the world like america but seems to be enough to dominate east asian nations
 
"What do you want me to do? Declare war against China? I can't. We will lose all our military and policemen tomorrow and we (will be) a destroyed nation,"

Well you could leverage international law in your efforts to thwart China's claim?

You could also ask for help from America...

China is pretty tolerant, they got insane-jong un that is tossing missiles around.

Pretty sure they would tolerate you flipping out over your sea borders.
 

shira

Member

L1HoH3r.gif
 
he's not, is the point. For him to just frame it as "it's this or total annihilation" is just a guy who doesn't have any kind of strategic sense whatsoever.

He has an understanding of the fact that if he goes after China he'll either get destroyed economically or, worse, physically. That is the most reasonable position you could have.
 

Jackpot

Banned
And? He's completely right here.

No he isn't. There's plenty in between "do nothing" and "declare war".

And even you think that in private, you absolutely do not state it publicly. He's just given them carte blanche to do whatever they want.
 
He has an understanding of the fact that if he goes after China he'll either get destroyed economically or, worse, physically. That is the most reasonable position you could have.

Okay then lol, let's further this logical strain.

China decides that they now own the Philippines.

Your response as their leader? "WELL WHADDYA GONNA DO?"
 

numble

Member
He's selling out his country's future.

Granted, it is an incredibly difficult position China is putting these nations in, but going "eh, what can ya do" isn't the right response.
How is he selling out their future? What would his country get from challenging China on this? For instance, China would stop investment in the Philippines and could probably push them out of the RCEP trade deal if they wanted to, and that would just mean they are losing investment and isolated from a very important regional trade deal. It is not like the US offers any similar economic benefits to the Philippines.
 
Philippines is not the only Southeast Asian country being pressured in some ways by China, yes not all of us can afford to openly oppose them aggressively but at the same time we all don't say "Oh well, that's life I guess!"
 
Okay then lol, let's further this logical strain.

China decides that they now own the Philippines.

Your response as their leader? "WELL WHADDYA GONNA DO?"

Except that is not his position at all. He's not going to engage China in international waters and clearly stated that freedom of navigation must be preserved. This is not handing over country's sovereignty.
 

Neo C.

Member
It's a somewhat reasonable standpoint only because he has alienated former allies for no fucking reason.

China is lucky, other countries are struggling with incompetent leaders and let the Chinese do whatever they want to do.
 
Except that is not his position at all. He's not going to engage China in international waters and clearly stated that freedom of navigation must be preserved. This is not handing over country's sovereignty.

So if China decides to "interfere with their coast guards", what's next?
 

Matt

Member
How is he selling out their future? What would his country get from challenging China on this? For instance, China would stop investment in the Philippines and could probably push them out of the RCEP trade deal if they wanted to, and that would just mean they are losing investment and isolated from a very important regional trade deal. It is not like the US offers any similar economic benefits to the Philippines.
Letting China so easily seize their terretory, and in doing so helping them cement their supposed jurisdiction over the entire South China Sea has no upside for the Philippines. It's bad for every nation in that region, and the rest of the world.

Again, it's a very difficult situation, but this is a horrible response.
 
Similar to how Trump is backed by the Russians and tries to do a lot of 'really nice things' for them, does it not feel like Duterte might be backed by the Chinese and is trying to do a lot of 'really nice things' for them?
 

numble

Member
Letting China so easily seize their terretory, and in doing so helping them cement their supposed jurisdiction over the entire South China Sea has no upside for the Philippines. It's bad for every nation in that region, and the rest of the world.

Again, it's a very difficult situation, but this is a horrible response.

In the past, there was also effective seizing of that territory, but also accompanied by Chinese blocking Filipino exports to China--here is an article from 5 years ago:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-...s-caught-in-philippines-china-dispute/4100422
China, the Philippines biggest export industry, imposed tighter controls after it claimed pests were found in banana imports.

Banana grower Josephine Capagcuan says 90 per cent of the produce from her Mindanao farm used to be exported to China; now, it's rotting away.

"Towards the end of May this year, China just stopped buying our bananas so it is a big impact especially to the banana growers," she said.

"We're having a hard time to finance our area anymore especially the farm inputs and also our labourers. We can't pay their salaries for them."

Philippines is the world's third biggest exporter of bananas, exporting an estimated $380 million worth each year, with most of them grown on Mindanao island.

The Banana Growers and Exporters Association says in March, Chinese quarantine officials discovered some scale insects in one of the containers shipped to China.

It says they officials claim they then discovered millibugs in 43 other shipments.

But the association's Stephen Antig says most in the banana industry believe it's about more than just bugs.

"This has never happened in the last ten to twelve years that we have been exporting to China," he said.

It's estimated that as many as 200,000 people will lose their livelihood if China continues to restrict imports.

And articles from last fall:
http://www.philstar.com/business/2016/10/07/1630958/china-lifts-import-ban-philippine-bananas
October 7, 2016
MANILA, Philippines - The Chinese government has lifted the ban on the import of bananas coming from the Philippines.

During his courtesy call at the Department of Agriculture, Chinese Ambassador Zhao Jianhua said China would now accept bananas and pineapples from Philippine-based exporters.

“We very much appreciate the action of the Chinese government as this will relieve our banana farmers from the serious problem during the suspension considering that China is a huge market for our banana industry,” Agriculture Secretary Emmanuel Piñol said over the phone.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-duterte-reap-funding-deals-worth-24-billion
Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte will bring home $24 billion worth of funding and investment pledges from his four-day visit to China as both nations agreed to resume talks and explore areas of cooperation in the South China Sea.

China will provide $9 billion in soft loans, including a $3 billion credit line with the Bank of China, while economic deals including investments would yield $15 billion, Trade Secretary Ramon Lopez told reporters in Beijing on Friday. Preliminary agreements in railways, ports, energy and mining worth $11.2 billion were signed between Philippine and Chinese firms.

It is hard to argue that the 5-year status quo, where China still had control of the shoal but the Philippines continued to protest without getting anywhere--including the Hague decision--was giving any upside to the Philippines besides a moral one. Nothing happening after the Hague decision signaled that the only way you were getting China off the Shoal was to push them off.
 

kmax

Member
So he decides to ally himself with China, and now they're using that against him? Color me shocked.

Fuck this guy. Get fucked, Duterte.
 
D

Deleted member 125677

Unconfirmed Member
I mean he did his very best to burn all bridges with the the US when he told them to fuck off after receiving criticism for starting his insane mass genocide against drug addicts and criminals.

Maybe Trump is crazy enough to maintain good relations with this psycho, but I can't see many western countries too eager to cooperate with Duterte at this point.

And China knows and takes advantage of this fact right now.
 

nampad

Member
I hope Duterte enjoys China's dick in his mouth because he will taste much more of it with that attitude.
China will continue to bully everyone around them.
 

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
The same thing could apply to the US. The US could level the Philippines in a day too, but he still called Obama a son of a whore.
 

omg_mjd

Member

Pretty much sums it up.

I remember when Duterte claimed during the presidential debate that he would personally ride a jet ski to the disputed islands and plant the Philippine flag there in defiance of China. I'd call him a moron but it's the voters who really deserve to be called that. Fuck this country.
 

Auto_aim1

MeisaMcCaffrey
And that is why you need good relations with the US. No country on its own there can stand up to China, so you build alliances.
It's more like China must have offered him stuff and the US can't or won't. And the US is not going to stand up to China. Obama didn't, and neither will Trump.
 

TarNaru33

Banned
Okay then lol, let's further this logical strain.

China decides that they now own the Philippines.

Your response as their leader? "WELL WHADDYA GONNA DO?"

I imagined a leader saying this with his shoulders shrugged up and its fucking hilarious.

I think many of you (not the person I am quoting) seem to not understand how foreign policy work. If a rival/hostile country has another country in a bind and is more powerful, there are many steps they can do before military force as the final option.

One of those steps is unless very necessary, you NEVER state publicly that "lol, we fucked, may as well roll off now", as that gives them the freedom to do whatever they want because what is going to stop them?

I laughed hard reading those quotes because I never heard a leader say something like this before. How is that reassuring to the citizens of the country?

Think about Iran and their nuclear power or Syria with their chemical weapons, you never say those things, even if it is true. By saying things like that, you lock yourself out of other options that are more favorable.
 

numble

Member
I imagined a leader saying this with his shoulders shrugged up and its fucking hilarious.

I think many of you (not the person I am quoting) seem to not understand how foreign policy work. If a rival/hostile country has another country in a bind and is more powerful, there are many steps they can do before military force as the final option.

One of those steps is unless very necessary, you NEVER state publicly that "lol, we fucked, may as well roll off now", as that gives them the freedom to do whatever they want because what is going to stop them?

I laughed hard reading those quotes because I never heard a leader say something like this before. How is that reassuring to the citizens of the country?

Think about Iran and their nuclear power or Syria with their chemical weapons, you never say those things, even if it is true. By saying things like that, you lock yourself out of other options that are more favorable.
You do not lock yourself out of contrary options via public statements. Obama said there was a red line to take military action against Syria for use of chemical weapons, Trump said he'll renegotiate the One China Policy and he also said he'd declare China a currency manipulator in his first 100 days. No such actions came to pass.
 
You do not lock yourself out of contrary options via public statements. Obama said there was a red line to take military action against Syria for use of chemical weapons, Trump said he'll renegotiate the One China Policy and he also said he'd declare China a currency manipulator in his first 100 days. No such actions came to pass.

That's America, they can fuck up all day and still have enough power to stay on top.

Not every country has that kind of leeway, and not to mention none of that is equal to giving up their own territory without a fight.
 
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