Support NeoGAF

[Donos]

Probably falls under the category of threads who get locked because it's justed fucked up but i can't understand how this happens at all. I would not let my kid in a car alone when it's not hot and it seems it's very hot in Phoenix atm.

An infant left for about two hours in a hot car has died — the second such death in the past two days in the city, the Phoenix Fire Department said.

Firefighters were called shortly before 3 p.m. Saturday to investigate a report of a 1-year-old boy in a car in the parking lot of the Free Church of God in Christ on the city's south side, authorities said.

The mother found the child, who was pronounced dead the scene, fire Capt. Larry Subervi said in a statement.

Phoenix police Sgt. Mercedes Fortune later identified the dead child as Josiah Riggins. No arrests have been made, she said.

The incident appears to be an accident, Subervi said.

Zettica Mitchell, who told the Arizona Republic she is a cousin of the baby's father, called the death "shocking, devastating, just sad."

"You feel like it's something that could happen to anybody," she said.

On Friday, authorities say a 7-month-old boy died after being left alone in a hot car in a northeast Phoenix neighborhood in triple-digit conditions. He was identified by police as Zane Endress.

Emergency personnel were called to the scene about 4 p.m. Friday, fire department officials said. When officers arrived, witnesses reported the baby had been left in the vehicle for an extended period of time. The boy was pronounced dead a short time later, police said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/phoenix-infant-dies-hot-car-death-city-48928760

Different opinions in this thread but please keep it civil. My view is that i understand that this could happen but i still think some people minize the tiny possibility more than others (not out of higher intelligence or something like that).Break of usual routine and super busy work week are no excuses to not constantly check/think about the most precious thing you have.

Edit: Some articles for another perspective. Still doesn't free parents from all the guilt/responsibility for me:

"Fatal Distraction: Forgetting a Child in the Backseat of a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime?"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...2be35962a52_story.html?utm_term=.8008a6d1ee7c

"Forgotten baby syndrome -
- Why parents leave children in hot cars" https://www.bundoo.com/articles/forgotten-baby-syndrome-why-parents-leave-children-in-hot-cars/

Mod Edit: To head off further drive by posts about how these people are morons and bad parents, read the WaPo article, an excerpt of which is below:

There’s a dismayingly cartoonish expression for what happened to Lyn Balfour on March 30, 2007. British psychologist James Reason coined the term the “Swiss Cheese Model” in 1990 to explain through analogy why catastrophic failures can occur in organizations despite multiple layers of defense. Reason likens the layers to slices of Swiss cheese, piled upon each other, five or six deep. The holes represent small, potentially insignificant weaknesses. Things will totally collapse only rarely, he says, but when they do, it is by coincidence -- when all the holes happen to align so that there is a breach through the entire system.

On the day Balfour forgot Bryce in the car, she had been up much of the night, first babysitting for a friend who had to take her dog to an emergency vet clinic, then caring for Bryce, who was cranky with a cold. Because the baby was also tired, he uncharacteristically dozed in the car, so he made no noise. Because Balfour was planning to bring Bryce’s usual car seat to the fire station to be professionally installed, Bryce was positioned in a different car seat that day, not behind the passenger but behind the driver, and was thus not visible in the rear-view mirror. Because the family’s second car was on loan to a relative, Balfour drove her husband to work that day, meaning the diaper bag was in the back, not on the passenger seat, as usual, where she could see it. Because of a phone conversation with a young relative in trouble, and another with her boss about a crisis at work, Balfour spent most of the trip on her cell, stressed, solving other people’s problems. Because the babysitter had a new phone, it didn’t yet contain Balfour’s office phone number, only her cell number, meaning that when the sitter phoned to wonder why Balfour hadn’t dropped Bryce off that morning, it rang unheard in Balfour’s pocketbook.

The holes, all of them, aligned.

In the end, Zwerling had one key decision to make. In criminal cases, jurors want to hear from the defendant. Zwerling liked and respected Balfour, but should he put her on the stand?

“Have you met her?” he asks.

Yes.

“Then you’ve seen that mental girdle she puts on, the protective armor against the world, how she closes up and becomes a soldier. It helps her survive, but it can seem off-putting if you’re someone who wants to see how crushed she is.” Zwerling decided not to risk it.

“I wound up putting her on the stand in a different way,” he says, “so people could see the real Lyn -- vulnerable, with no guile, no posturing.”

What Zwerling did was play two audiotapes for the jury. One was Balfour’s interrogation by police in the hospital about an hour after Bryce’s death; her answers are immeasurably sad, almost unintelligible, half sob, half whisper: “I killed my baby,” she says tremulously. “Oh, God, I’m so sorry.”

The second tape was a call to 911 made by a passerby, in those first few seconds after Balfour discovered the body and beseeched a stranger to summon help.

Zwerling swivels to his computer, punches up an audio file.

“Want to hear it?”

***

It is 60 feet to the end of the patio, then a stairwell with 11 steps down, then two steps across, then a second stairwell, 12 steps down, one more off the curb and then a 30-foot sprint to the car. Balfour estimates the whole thing took half a minute or less. She knew it was too late when, through the window, she saw Bryce’s limp hand, and then his face, unmarked but lifeless and shiny, Balfour says, “like a porcelain doll.”

It was seconds later that the passerby called 911.

***

The tape is unendurable. Mostly, you hear a woman’s voice, tense but precise, explaining to a police dispatcher what she is seeing. Initially, there’s nothing in the background. Then Balfour howls at the top of her lungs, “OH, MY GOD, NOOOO!”

Then, for a few seconds, nothing.

Then a deafening shriek: “NO, NO, PLEASE, NO!!!”

Three more seconds, then:

“PLEASE, GOD, NO, PLEASE!!!”

What is happening is that Balfour is administering CPR. At that moment, she recalls, she felt like two people occupying one body: Lyn, the crisply efficient certified combat lifesaver, and Lyn, the incompetent mother who would never again know happiness. Breathe, compress, breathe, compress. Each time that she came up for air, she lost it. Then, back to the patient.

 

[23qwerty]

"You feel like it's something that could happen to anybody," she said.

......no?

 

[Man God]

BRING THE KID IN WITH YOU. ALWAYS. THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

Jesus. 20 minutes might be an accident. Two freakin' hours is negligence.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

They need to make a product like tile but for kids. I know this sounds fucking stupid but I'm beyond the point of trusting parents with their kids in the summer. It could be intrgrated into their pacifier or something. When the kid gets in the car the baby device pairs with the car. If the car then detects the kid is still in the car >30 minutes after turning it off have the alarm blare.

 

[Beer Monkey]

We had one of these a few hundred feet from my house in Ohio a few years ago.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3570651&page=1

I think some of these are extreme brain fade and I think some of these have a more nuanced dark backstory.

 

[Karsticles]

Every parent knows this isn't an accident.

They need to make a product like tile but for kids. I know this sounds fucking stupid but I'm beyond the point of trusting parents with their kids in the summer. It could be intrgrated into their pacifier or something. When the kid gets in the car the baby device pairs with the car. If the car then detects the kid is still in the car >30 minutes after turning it off have the alarm blare.

These aren't the kinds of people who would buy this product.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

"You feel like it's something that could happen to anybody," she said.

Someone lock this bitch up!

No, this does not happen to anybody. When it' fucking boiling outside, why would you "forget" to take your kid?

What, you took the diaper bag but forgot the kid? A 1 year old requires a full diaper bag, bottles of milk, stroller, snacks, etc...

You have 50 million things in your possession to remind you that you brought your kid along.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Man, I'm already paranoid during the time between strapping my kid into the car seat and walking around to the driver's seat. People are just wired differently.

 

[tearsintherain]

Temps get insanely hot in the southwest in summer time and people new to the areas don't realize that even putting your car in the shade doesn't do shit. It may be 100 degrees outside which means after 5 minutes inside your car it'll be 120+.

A few days ago in Vegas another kid died, a huge extended family got together, it was like 30 people and 15+ kids and 1 kid accidently got left behind in the car and nobody noticed for a few hours. He died Another story was a grandma babysitting her grandkid, ran some errands with him, and forgot him in the car back home.

Its an even bigger problem for dogs who can't sweat the same way we can, way too many people leave dogs inside cars. They changed local laws a few years ago where its legal for someone to break the windows of a strangers car if they see a dog (and of course human) inside suffering in heat.

Tyrann Mathieu (NFL Player) did a PSA to show how fucking hot it can get to, he couldn't even last a few minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBTGcWUf2ts

 

[Man God]

Man, I'm already paranoid during the time between strapping my kid into the car seat and walking around to the driver's seat. People are just wired differently.

Yup. It's two seconds and I feel it every time.

 

[LewieP]

They need to make a product like tile but for kids. I know this sounds fucking stupid but I'm beyond the point of trusting parents with their kids in the summer. It could be intrgrated into their pacifier or something. When the kid gets in the car the baby device pairs with the car. If the car then detects the kid is still in the car >30 minutes after turning it off have the alarm blare.

Or people could not have kids if they're not going to be responsible for them.

 

[rjinaz]

Living in Phoenix I hear these stories waaaay too much. Fuck.

Happened to one of my teachers in high school. I don't remember the story exactly but he didn't usually have her or something along those lines because they had to switch vehicles or something, and he went into school without her. She died.

 

[norm9]

I'm a blame the parents.

 

[adamsappel]

Forgotten Baby Syndrome

Forgotten Baby Syndrome is the medical explanation for how a parent can walk away from a car without realizing their child remains inside. Dr. David Diamond, a professor of psychology, molecular pharmacology, and physiology at the University of South Florida, Tampa, spends time researching the neurobiology of FBS. According to Dr. Diamond, each day people perform tasks that become routine, involving little conscious thought and are therefore governed by a part of the brain called the motor cortex. A good example is driving home from work each day using the same route. Eventually, we can do it seemingly without thinking. Dr. Diamond explains, “in effect, our motor memory frees us up to think about the future while completing the task at hand.”

Then there is the part of the brain responsible for making a clear decision, for example, to stop at the store on your way home from work. This is called the hippocampus, and it controls the cognitive portion of our brains. Dr. Diamond explains that in FBS, the motor memory part of our brain competes against the cognitive part of the brain, overruling it. In this example, that would mean leaving work with the intent of stopping at the store and then finding yourself in your garage having forgotten that you intended to make a stop elsewhere. This phenomenon happens as a normal part of our brain’s function and not because there is something wrong with our brain structure.

In the case of FBS, two things often happen. First, a caregiver varies from their normal routine. For example, a caregiver that does not usually transport a child to daycare may do so on this day. They then drive to work as normal, the motor cortex out-thinking the cognitive brain and leading the parent to completely forget their child is in the back. They go about their day with no recollection of their intent to drop a child off and looking forward to seeing the child in the evening.

 

[AlexFlame116]

2 Hours?! Accident?!

No. I'm not believing that one bit. You take the child with you no matter what. I don't care if the child starts getting bored in church. I'm sure God won't mind a bit.

But this is not okay in any sense of the word

 

[Garrus Vakarian]

Would it be viable for there to be an automatic system that detects if someone is in the back seat when a car is locked and starts pumping AC if the temperature gets above a certain threshold?

I realise that it should be the responsibility of the parents to actually think and take care of their children, but if it saves the lives of infants/children surely it would be worth it?

 

[SerAardvark]

Reading this Pulitzer-winning article from the Washington Post made me a lot more sympathetic toward the parents in these cases.

 

[Shinypogs]

To the people saying there are never accidents. Yes there are, there have been cases where parents are sure they dropped their kid off at daycare l because they're so used to doing it every day, but perhaps they miss the turn or they get distracted for a moment and the infant is quiet and so they're brain supplies that the child must not be in the car. ( This is apparently also an issue with rear facing car seats because you can't tell if they car seat is empty or not.) then these people get to work/ home/ wherever and go about their day as if it were normal. only when they get a call about their kid not showing up to daycare or if there's an announcement over a loudspeaker at a store do they realize that they left their baby in the car. this is horrific and saddening but genuinely an accident and why you can;t just have blanket laws about child deaths from heat in cars.

Any parent who knowingly leaves their kid in the car ( 'I'll just be 5 minutes") however needs to be punished for neglect because they assumed the risk when they left the child alone. Parents who pretend to forget their kids to let them die on purpose should be trialed for fucking murder.

 

[FinalStageBoss]

This could happen anybody??? Yea if you're a fucking idiot.


I wouldn't leave a kid in the car alone under any circumstances wtf.

 

[Septimus Prime]

This is apparently also an issue with rear facing car seats because you can't tell if they car seat is empty or not.

Yeah. It's really worth it to buy one of those mirrors that you can strap onto the headrest so that you can see your child's face in the rearview.

 

[border]

This is generally an accident. Most people don't mean to leave their kids in a hot-ass car.

People just get used to years and years of a daily routine that doesn't involve an infant. When said infant arrives, they involuntarily follow a routine that doesn't account for a small child.

 

[WaterAstro]

Why would anyone leave a 7-month old alone in any circumstances?

 

[KingV]

Reading this Pulitzer-winning article from the Washington Post made me a lot more sympathetic toward the parents in these cases.

That article is horrifying, I couldn't finish it.

It's like a truly horrific version of forgetting your wallet. I totally see how it could happen to somebody. I'm just glad my wife and I never made that kind of mistake, and now my kid is old enough t let herself out.

 

[ibyea]

It is probably an accident. To your brain, kids are just as easy to forget as your keys. Read more research into psychology before judging the parents as murderers or monsters. Before you know it, it could happen to you.

 

[ZeoVGM]

No, sorry, two hours isn't an accident.

If you're not able to remember that you have a baby in the car for two hours after you get out, you're a shit person.

 

[Pankratous]

Even if there was absolutely no risk of this kind of death, you shouldn't be leaving a child on their own in the car anyway? What the fuck?

 

[border]

It's like a truly horrific version of forgetting your wallet.

Yeah, that's probably the worst way to put it, but it makes sense. People leave their phone/keys/wallet laying in their car all the time. For whatever reason, their recent child doesn't receive any more cognitive priority than keys or a phone.

 

[adamsappel]

This is generally an accident. Most people don't mean to leave their kids in a hot-ass car.

People just get used to years and years of a daily routine that doesn't involve an infant. When said infant arrives, they involuntarily follow a routine that doesn't account for a small child.

It doesn't have to be years and years of a routine. It's a new routine, but it's still a routine. Your brain gets used to things pretty quickly.

I'm willing to bet every parent here will attest to at some point suddenly thinking they forgot to put the baby in the car and having to check the back seat to make sure. It's the same impulse.

 

[UberTag]

This is generally an accident. Most people don't mean to leave their kids in a hot-ass car.

People just get used to years and years of a daily routine that doesn't involve an infant. When said infant arrives, they involuntarily follow a routine that doesn't account for a small child.

The only instance where I can PLAUSIBLY buy this as being an accident as opposed to negligence would be if you leave the AC running in the car and the AC shorts out due to some kind of defect. And even then you shouldn't leave your kid unattended for the amount of time it takes for them to BAKE to death.

 

[Brakke]

They need to make a product like tile but for kids. I know this sounds fucking stupid but I'm beyond the point of trusting parents with their kids in the summer. It could be intrgrated into their pacifier or something. When the kid gets in the car the baby device pairs with the car. If the car then detects the kid is still in the car >30 minutes after turning it off have the alarm blare.

Yeah thank god for #products.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

It's an accident. Punishing the parent won't stop this from happening. People forget their kids in the car for the same reason that they lose the remote or don't need to actively think about how to drive to work everyday. It's about your level of engagement in routine tasks, not a neglect issue. People just have to take these tragedies to heart, hopefully that'll jolt them awake and prevent it in the future.

 

[sturmdogg]

Why in the world would anyone think it's a good idea to leave an infant in a car alone?

How hard is it to bring the kid inside with you?

 

[DJ88]

I'm sure every single person here saying it's BS has at some point in their lives forgotten something, where after realizing it, you wonder how in the fucking hell you managed to forget. The value of said forgotten thing really has no bearing to the horribly unfortunate timing of your brain skipping a beat.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

Yeah thank god for #products.

Sure. Laugh at thinking of a solution. I'm sure you think seatbelt and airbags are stupid too. People should just drive safer right?

 

[danthefan]

No, sorry, two hours isn't an accident.

If you're not able to remember that you have a baby in the car for two hours after you get out, you're a shit person.

So it's deliberate? Of course it's an accident. A horrible, tragic accident that will haunt the parent forever.

 

[sturmdogg]

It's an accident.

No it's not. It's negligence. Better neuter these idiots before they kill someone else.

People forget their kids in the car for the same reason that they lose the remote or don't need to actively think about how to drive to work everyday.

How about no, you don't? It's your kid, the one life that loves you and looks to you to take care of it, protect it and trusts you won't let him/her down. YOU DO NOT FORGET YOUR KID, THEY ARE NOT THINGS TO FORGET.

 

[H.Protagonist]

This is a nightmare I have sometimes. It's extreme, and it sounds insane, but now that I'm a parent I'm all too aware of how easy it is to say 'how could they forget?!'. Sleep deprivation, stress, the constant grind where you zombie walk those first few months... I've done things that would shock my pre-baby self. I have no idea if this case is a legitimate accident or negligence, and I can't fathom how you'd go hours without knowing or checking, but I'm not going to pretend it doesn't happen to people who never meant to hurt their children. I'm beginning to think a baby-car alarm should be part of a post-birth package for everyone.

 

[Monocle]

Forgotten Baby Syndrome

Reading this Pulitzer-winning article from the Washington Post made me a lot more sympathetic toward the parents in these cases.

Necessary reading, thank you.

Before anyone condemns parents who have experienced these terrible accidents, they ought to inform themselves about the cognitive underpinnings of their "negligence."

You are probably not immune to these flaws. You're certainly not better than anyone who fell victim to the way virtually all human brains work.

It's a sad fact that the human mind is profoundly fallible—a fact most of us reflexively dismiss as other people's problems. We flatter ourselves to think we're in control when we feel like we're in control. Often enough, that's simply not the case.

Fortunately there's a simple solution to this kind of thing. When you break from your routine, use a checklist to stay on track.

No it's not. It's negligence. Better neuter these idiots before they kill someone else.



How about no, you don't? It's your kid, the one life that loves you and looks to you to take care of it, protect it and trusts you won't let him/her down. YOU DO NOT FORGET YOUR KID, THEY ARE NOT THINGS TO FORGET.

When you've mentally ticked off a routine task, your mind automatically shifts to the next thing. This is how your brain works. This is how competent people make fucking massive life-ruining blunders. You simply don't worry about something you're convinced is already taken care of.

If you want to dismiss the research about this, back it up. Read the research and challenge it with contradictory evidence, if you have any.

 

[ZeoVGM]

It's an accident. Punishing the parent won't stop this from happening.

So if a parent accidentally leaves their kid in a car for two hours and the kid dies, there should be absolutely no punishment? Some counseling and a "better luck next time?"

No, he or she is responsible for the child.

 

[the_darkness]

Forgotten Baby Syndrome

Don't bother man, childless-gaf got this situation on lock. These are just garbage human beings clearly.

 

[Shaanyboi]

It's an accident. Punishing the parent won't stop this from happening. People forget their kids in the car for the same reason that they lose the remote or don't need to actively think about how to drive to work everyday. It's about your level of engagement in routine tasks, not a neglect issue. People just have to take these tragedies to heart, hopefully that'll jolt them awake and prevent it in the future.

You don't fucking handwaive away neglect like that. It's your fucking kid. The human life that depends on you in every way. You don't go "oopsie" and forget your child for two hours.

 

[AlexFlame116]

Necessary reading, thank you.

Before anyone condemns parents who have experienced these terrible accidents, they ought to inform themselves about the cognitive underpinnings of their "negligence."

You are probably not immune to these flaws. You're certainly not better than anyone who fell victim to the way virtually all human brains work.

It's a sad fact that the human mind is profoundly fallible—a fact most of us reflexively dismiss as other people's problems. We flatter ourselves to think we're in control when we feel like we're in control. Often enough, that's simply not the case.

Fortunately there's a simple solution to this kind of thing. When you break from your routine, use a checklist to stay on track.

You have to make a checklist....for your child? Your infant? A living person in the car?

We may have flaws as humans but there are some things that really need to be dug into your head before you even think of driving off or getting away from your car. Even using the mirror in the car should remind you that there is an infant behind you.

It's tragic. It's a horrible experience, and it's something that I would never wish on a person. But sometimes you need to think two steps ahead.

 

[theaface]

Edit: On reflection, I just feel bad for parents involved in horrific situations like this. It's extremely hard to imagine it happening to your own family, almost impossible even, but clearly it really can. Can't imagine the torment these people will live with.

 

[ibyea]

People, stop thinking you are above your biological functions, we are very imperfect meat machines with strange quirks. The sooner we accept this, the better we will be able to try and avoid crap like this from happening.

 

[AlexFlame116]

Don't bother man, childless-gaf got this situation on lock. These are just garbage human beings clearly.

Well I'm sorry for caring about my child and including my siblings in that thought. I must be a horrible person for thinking that.

 

[Benzychenz]

It is probably an accident. To your brain, kids are just as easy to forget as your keys. Read more research into psychology before judging the parents as murderers or monsters. Before you know it, it could happen to you.

What if I don't forget my keys?

 

[Grizzlyjin]

No it's not. It's negligence. Better neuter these idiots before they kill someone else.



How about no, you don't? It's your kid, the one life that loves you and looks to you to take care of it, protect it and trusts you won't let him/her down. YOU DO NOT FORGET YOUR KID, THEY ARE NOT THINGS TO FORGET.

So if a parent accidentally leaves their kid in a car for two hours and the kid dies, there should be absolutely no punishment? Some counseling and a "better luck next time?"

No, he or she is responsible for the child.

If they intentionally do it, sure they should be punished. People know by now that kids can die in hot cars very quickly. People don't choose to forget things, that isn't how a human brain works. It doesn't matter if it's a pen or a diamond ring, you can forget something if your focus isn't on that particular thing. The focus is on driving, then they're thinking about going into the store. If something doesn't prompt them to check the backseat, this is how it happens. The absolute worst thing in the world is for people to take the attitude that they're too good a parent or too smart for this to happen to them. People should be scared and worried that it can happen to them, because that's what'll make them check the backseat even if their mind wanders.

So yeah, absolutely no punishment. It's an accident.

 

[Yellowflashdude]

Wtf,is this culture or something? How can people be so relaxed about leaving their kids in the car, especially toddlers. Cases like this are just way too many in the states.

 

[Monocle]

You have to make a checklist....for your child? Your infant? A living person in the car?

We may have flaws as humans but there are some things that really need to be dug into your head before you even think of driving off or getting away from your car. Even using the mirror in the car should remind you that there is an infant behind you.

It's tragic. It's a horrible experience, and it's something that I would never wish on a person. But sometimes you need to think two steps ahead.

Actually yes.

Your brain makes checklists of a sort that follow established routines. When you break from your routine, sometimes the boxes still get checked, because completing a routine task out of order can trick your brain into thinking the prior step is done. Your mind does all kinds of things like this to lessen your cognitive load. Your working memory is limited to holding about four items at once. Routine items tend to be squeezed out of your working memory by things you're less familiar with.

One more invaluable and totally counterintuitive lesson from science. Invaluable because it's counterintuitive.