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[dog$]

even if you take away the launch factor

Sorry but I think that's the answer to your question, right there.

 

[Dsal]

Joe Gamer walks by the game rack which contains dozens and dozens of games with all kinds of cover art and glances at Pikmin 2 for about 1.5 seconds. Not knowing a single thing about Pikmin 1 or what the game is about - all he sees is this weird cover with freaky claymation plant people on it.

Can you imagine, under any circumstance, why this person would want to linger on this cover for longer than the first glance? It's probably not even a convincing enough case to actually get the average person to lift the game off the shelf and read the back to see what it's about.

I'd think almost anyone wouldn't give it a longer look than if they were glancing by Super Duper Sumos for GBA. And at least that cover is worth pulling off the shelf to mock the fact that, indeed, it has three sumos touching their giant asses together while a giant blue blast squirts out of their conjoined ass apex.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I'd think almost anyone wouldn't give it a longer look than if they were glancing by Super Duper Sumos for GBA. And at least that cover is worth pulling off the shelf to mock the fact that, indeed, it has three sumos touching their giant asses together while a giant blue blast squirts out of their conjoined ass apex.

:lol

 

[ge-man]

Even though I really really can't stand 30fps in racers I agree with this. Pikmin 2 was a fun 8/10 but nothing mind-blowing IMO. At least PGR2 was a solid 20-30 hours of fun in single player mode.

Pikmin 2 is about 30 hours in single player unless you're the ultimate gamer and could cut through it quickly in the first go. I'm beginning to wonder if the real problem is Nintendo's failure to show that game is marked improvement, as most people seem to think it's the same old thing.

The only thing it shares with the first Pikmin is graphics and basic mechanics--otherwise it's a different experince for the most part. With the time limit gone and the introduction of randomized dungeons, the game is really about tatics this time. Furthermore, Olimar can gain power ups and there even a couple of powerups for the pikmin. With those things put on top of two new pikmin types and a slight readjustment of old pikmin attributes, the game ends offers many different paths to a single goal.

I'm sure the appeal matter is a key reason for soft sales, but I am baffle that people feel like this is the same game. What makes the GTA SA's or Halo 2's less prone to this criticism if most changes are in the gameplay and not nessesarily the graphics (like Pikmin 2).

 

[puck1337]

Competition, limited mass market appeal, and poor advertising. The same things that hamper sales of most good games.

 

[dark10x]

people want sex, blood and guns : Teh Matur3

:|

There are plenty of games without mature content that sell VERY well...

Pikmin 2 is about 30 hours in single player unless you're the ultimate gamer and could cut through it quickly in the first go

30 hours?!

OK, there is such a thing as making a game TOO long ya know...

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

So, am I not buying this game today or what? I need to pick up Viewtiful and P.N.03 to round out the Capcom colection, but damn if'n there's no other Cube game that I can think of for TRU's 3-fer-2 sale.

 

[SaitoH]

Image

that's all that really needs to be said.

"MOMMIE!!!! I DONT' WANT TO LOOK LIKE A DORK PLAYING WITH CLAY DOLLS!!1 I WANT TO FUCK HOOKERS AND KILL ALIENS"

The quality of a game means jackshit anymore

Halo and GTA are very high quality titles, so I'd say quality does mean a lot.

Pikmin 2 is a quality title, as are MK:deception, Def Jam fight for NY, Monster Hunter, SW battlefront, Burnout 3, etc. So what if someone chooses to skip over Pikmin because it looks too cute? So much choice, it's easy to pass over something.

*shrugs*

Ps. Not all gamers that like Halo and GTA are children yelling to their mommies either.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

quality title...MK:deception

Keep walking

 

[SaitoH]

Keep walking

Well, I have yet to talk to an MK fan that didn't think it was a great sequel, if not the best of the series.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Ps. Not all gamers that like Halo and GTA are children yelling to their mommies either.

It's kind of funny seeing Nintendo fans constantly throw GTA into a certain age group of gamers that play it, then they get pissed whenever someone does the same to a Nintendo title.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

MK fan...think

Bah, I could do this all day.

 

[SaitoH]

Bah, I could do this all day.

Isn't ones own perception an important part choice?

VF4 Evo is my fighting game of choice and I don't really care for MK, but I do recognize it as a "quality" title.

^w^

 

[BuddyC]

OMG PIKMIN 2 SOLD MORE THAN BURNOUT 3 ON PS2 OR XBOX (BUT NOT COMBINED)

IF
PIKMIN 2 = BOMB
AND
PIKMIN 2 > BURNOUT 3

THEN
BURNOUT 3 = BIGGER BOMB

WHAT HAPPENED TO BURNOUT 3?!

Spoiler

Honestly, isn't it a tad premature for this?

 

[Insertia]

Pikmin 2 has extremely limited appeal; that explains the sub-par sales.

 

[Ranger X]

Pikmin the first was good but not great. It's still kinda foreign series here.
Pikmin 2 needed much more advertising and 40$ price point.
And if you advertise it well, many people can buy this game. The quality is there, it's the marketing guys that sucks. And it's not TEH kiddie between.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

Isn't ones own perception an important part choice?VF4 Evo is my fighting game of choice and I don't really care for MK, but I do recognize it as a "quality" title

I cannot fathom how one can appreciate what makes VF so good, and then still call MK quality. I can only guess that you like virtually all fighting games, as I do, and we're able to have some fun with this MK game.

I was able to have fun with the Bloodraynes and NFSUs, a lot of fun actually, but I'd never assign them a better badge then "good."

MK: DA was terrible; worse yet, it was stupid, just plain stupid. The game was an insult to my devotion to the fighting genre. I'll admit that I didn't bother to try this latest MK, which makes my comments a bit out of line. But I have played every other MK, including DA which I gather this new title strays little from.

To close this aside, answer for me one question. If MK: D earns a "quality" ranking from you, what does VF4:Evo earn?

 

[Red Dolphin]

Pikmin 2 has extremely limited appeal; that explains the sub-par sales.

Exactly. I had no intention of buying the original as it didn't interest me in the slightest. I did rent it though and ended up buying it (and now Pikmin 2) as I really enjoyed it.

I don't know how you can advertise and RTS/isometric overhead strategy game on TV and get ppl excited about it. Usually looks pretty boring. Plus factor in childish characters and there's not much chance of ppl taking an interest in it.

 

[ge-man]

30 hours?!

OK, there is such a thing as making a game TOO long ya know...

It seems like a lot for the first time through, but it isn't chore. The first Pikmin feels longer even though it takes less than half the time of the sequel to complete it. Overall, the game really hit the sweet spot in terms of length and content. It just feels like enough is there, which is something rarely feel these days.

 

[Bebpo]

Pikmin 2 is about 30 hours in single player unless you're the ultimate gamer and could cut through it quickly in the first go. I'm beginning to wonder if the real problem is Nintendo's failure to show that game is marked improvement, as most people seem to think it's the same old thing.

The only thing it shares with the first Pikmin is graphics and basic mechanics--otherwise it's a different experince for the most part. With the time limit gone and the introduction of randomized dungeons, the game is really about tatics this time. Furthermore, Olimar can gain power ups and there even a couple of powerups for the pikmin. With those things put on top of two new pikmin types and a slight readjustment of old pikmin attributes, the game ends offers many different paths to a single goal.

I'm sure the appeal matter is a key reason for soft sales, but I am baffle that people feel like this is the same game. What makes the GTA SA's or Halo 2's less prone to this criticism if most changes are in the gameplay and not nessesarily the graphics (like Pikmin 2).

Yea, I wasn't trying to say that PGR2's single player was longer. I was trying to say that PGR2 provides 20-30 hours of 'fun'. Whereas I spent like 20 hours on Pikmin 2 and maybe 10 of those were great, and the other 10 were either boring because it was repetitive in the caves or frusterating.

I'm one of those few weird people that loved the original Pikmin and thinks Pikmin 1 >> Pikmin 2.

 

[SaitoH]

I cannot fathom how one can appreciate what makes VF so good, and then still call MK quality. I can only guess that you like virtually all fighting games, as I do, and we're able to have some fun with this MK game.

I was able to have fun with the Bloodraynes and NFSUs, a lot of fun actually, but I'd never assign them a better badge then "good."

MK: DA was terrible; worse yet, it was stupid, just plain stupid. The game was an insult to my devotion to the fighting genre. I'll admit that I didn't bother to try this latest MK, which makes my comments a bit out of line. But I have played every other MK, including DA which I gather this new title strays little from.

To close this aside, answer for me one question. If MK: D earns a "quality" ranking from you, what does VF4:Evo earn?

Well, I guess we have a different opinion of what constitutes "quality." By no means do I think MK is one of the top-tiered fighters, but it's amusing, plays well, has good production, good bank of characters, online play, puzzle mode, chess type game (too bad it wasn't real chess), lots of unlockables, etc.

Here is the difference: In my opinion, VF4 Evo is the best fighter. Period. Next to that, MK is shit. Yet surprisingly, lots of people would rather play MK. Is it wrong for them to prefer it? I've worked in retail for a lot of years, so I've stopped wearing my person preference blinders, and try to look at games more objectively.

Here is something else that will blow your mind. I think EA is a top-notch developer and all their titles are "quality" products.


^_~

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

lots of people would rather play MK. Is it wrong for them to prefer it?

Yes. Yes, I'm just the kind of asshole who thinks so. I know a guy like that. I re-named his Xbox, "Pooper D." Now we all call him Pooper. He prefered to play Budukai, no jury of my peers would convict me.

 

[sprsk]

Yes. Yes, I'm just the kind of asshole who thinks so. I know a guy like that. I re-named his Xbox, "Pooper D." Now we all call him Pooper. He prefered to play Budukai, no jury of my peers would convict me.

indeed.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

People always blame commercials, but I don't think every big game needs much advertising.

I'm going to agree with C. Nutt's comments in EGM...that this game had some design flaws, was heavily overrated by reviewers and it didn't have any good buzz among the people who pick up games but don't follow all the other nonsense.

 

[ge-man]

What are the design flaws? I have heard that before but it has made me scratch my head. The only thing that really bothered me was the random dungeon system could result in a situation where you are up against the wall (you don't have enough blue pikmin to get an item that is know in the water, or the level begins with a Gattling Groink or some Spotty Bulbear right where your are, with your pikmin). Other than that, I thought things were tight enough with the elements that are in place now.

 

[evil ways]

Yes. Yes, I'm just the kind of asshole who thinks so

There we go, question answered, matter solved, case closed.

Some folks do not share the asshole, fighting elitist attitude where some gamers are either categorized or mocked because a certain unwritten rule of gaming inferiority, and are able to give credit where credit is due regardless of a personal hate or dislike for something.

Nobody has the right or authority to judge what's good or bad/wrong or right, you just have the right to like or dislike something for whatever reason.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

Need for Speed Underground is the funnest racer ever made

 

[WhippinSean]

I think you know the answer already.

heck, I think everyone knows why it didn't sell.

Actually I honestly don't know, I figured it would do well... but it didnt? Boggles me.

As far as that one kids comment about PGR 2 and Splinter Cell 2, you are a loner!

PGR 2 is a way better game than the first, same thing with Pandora Tomorrow!

PGR only sold more because it was a launch title!

 

[signet]

PGR only sold more because it was a launch title!

Isn't that the reason why Pikmin 1 sold as well?

 

[AniHawk]

I'm not surprised by Pikmin 2's sales. It's going to be one of those games where most of its sales will be at a $20 pricepoint like the original Pikmin or Mario Golf.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

Isn't that the reason why Pikmin 1 sold as well?

It wasn't launch, though. It was very close to launch, close enough to be considered, maybe, but it wasn't there day one. At least in the US.

 

[wipeout364]

I remember when people on this board were saying that pikmin 2 would sell a million copies. That just seemed completely insane to me. I think it will sell 200,000 overall. It is such a niche title. It reminds me of the SEGA stuff they used to put out on the dreamcast, cool yes , mainstream no.

 

[signet]

It wasn't launch, though. It was very close to launch, close enough to be considered, maybe, but it wasn't there day one. At least in the US.

It was the 1st Nintendo released game after launch (along with SSB:M) about 3 weeks later. I think that played a huge part in Pikmin's success (remember SFA hit its 1st delay around this time so Pikmin and SSB:M were the only new Nintendo games for Xmas).

 

[Alcibiades]

Also, Pikmin 1 got an insame amount of attention from Nintendo themselves...

there was booklets handed out with $5 coupons in many retailers that had interviews with Shigeru Miyamoto and other working on the game and introducing them to the character, enemies, and concepts...

the whole "what if you could open a door" Miyamoto quote was there, and he was lauded as the creator of Donkey Konga, Mario, and Zelda and that this was his new game...

Also, it launched in December so that's always a busy month...

word got around enough, but I guess many people didn't get the message this time...

it's still a little early cause Christmas is right around the corner, but I'm not terribly confident...

 

[jarrod]

Isn't that the reason why Pikmin 1 sold as well?

Well looking at the numbers, Pikmin 2's selling somewhat comparably with Pikmin 1 (and will likely come close to it's numbers in the end) while PGR2 won't even have sold half what PGR when all's said and done.

 

[rawk]

Pikmin 2 is doing just fine. Keep in mind

1 - Pikmin was a launch title. Someone with a Cube had SUCH a limited selection in December 2001, and Pikmin was one of the few really high quality games available. This is why, among other reasons, Rogue Squadron 2 sold buttloads, why Super Monkey Ball has done so well, etc. Titles get a great chance at launch, despite smaller console bases, because there isn't much to choose from. I'm sure if Wario World had been released at launch it would have sold tons. Same with Eternal Darkness or F-Zero. Pikmin had this great advantage.

2 - Pikmin has limited appeal. It's a quirky little top-down quasi-RTS game. It's not Mario Party. Pikmin may seem simple to those of us who really enjoy it, but I know people who have tried it and just can't get it.

3 - It sold over 100,000 copies in its first month! After Christmas, after it goes Player's Choice, it'll sell plenty.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

I'm waiting for TRU sale, so make it 132,619.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

132,620

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I loved the first game. It's one of my favorite Gamecube games. I still don't give a shit about the second one.

This game doesn't give me anything I've asked for. Nintendo (and Japanese development as a whole) is just so clueless and irrelevant when it comes to giving us what we want to see in a game. Despite it probably being an awesome game, I just don't care because I have no reason to outside of some forum douches praising it.

 

[Ranger X]

I loved the first game. It's one of my favorite Gamecube games. I still don't give a shit about the second one.

This game doesn't give me anything I've asked for. Nintendo (and Japanese development as a whole) is just so clueless and irrelevant when it comes to giving us what we want to see in a game. Despite it probably being an awesome game, I just don't care because I have no reason to outside of some forum douches praising it.

And what was supposed to happen with the next Pikmin? lol
You'll be the first to shit on the next bad sequel of your favorite games.
Pikmin2 is a well-done sequel. It didn't change completely from the first one but my god they oh so nailed the flaws of the first Pikmin...

 

[SaitoH]

Yes. Yes, I'm just the kind of asshole who thinks so. I know a guy like that. I re-named his Xbox, "Pooper D." Now we all call him Pooper. He prefered to play Budukai, no jury of my peers would convict me.

lol

 

[Deku Tree]

Anyone know how much Pikmin 1 sold in its first month?

 

[Dan]

Maybe... just maybe... some of the people who bought the first Pikmin really didn't like it and have no interest in a sequel.

Pikmin has the honor of being the first Nintendo game I ever traded in.

 

[snapty00]

I liked the first Pikmin but not enough to burn 50 bucks on it again.

 

[olimario]

I liked the first Pikmin but not enough to burn 50 bucks on it again.

The first is only 20 now and the second is a much better and more polished title.

 

[AniHawk]

Another month of half-assed predictions from me:

Star Ocean: 230,000
Fable: 450,000
Pikmin 2: 150,000
Donkey Konga: 35,000
Pokemon FiLe: 1,000,000

but 400k for Pikmin 2 is a lowball estimate IMO.

Thank AniHawk for that.

What? What did I do?

You're usually quite conservative about your estimates, this may have swayed JJConrad's thinking.

I think 80k is a reasonable estimate [for Donkey Konga]...

...It's releasing the 27th of September.

...It's releasing the 27th of September.

pre-orders are healthy.

100,000 isn't out of the question, but 80,000 is more safe...

I demand all your letters of resignation on my desk before the end of the day.

 

[madara]

I dont think you can totally blame the advertising. This series just lacks something for me. As hard as I tried to get myself to buy this I just dont have any interest in it. All these new experimental niche games wouldnt be so bad if they threw in some kind of solid traditional game like a platformer inbetween.

 

[CrimsonSkies]

Every game you like doesn't have to sell a million. You worry too much about it. It's a fun game. Play it and enjoy it. It's an average selling Nintendo franchise and that's all it will ever be.

 

[Mrbob]

The first is only 20 now and the second is a much better and more polished title.

A polished turd is still a turd.

Not saying Pikmin 2 is bad, because it isn't. The dungeon sections is too tedious and comprise too much of the game though. But those who didn't like the first really aren't too inclined to like the sequel, even if it is more polished.

 

[Alcibiades]

I demand all your letters of resignation on my desk before the end of the day.

OK OK!!!!

so maybe your lowballs turned out correct, but it was still pretty mystifying to see Pikmin 2 do those numbers when it was almost more than a month selling...

I didn't expect Day of Reckoning to come so close...

I guess the underwhelming performance of Pikmin and other games (I expected more from Pokemon Colosseum, older titles, and even Donkey Konga, though I think DK will do well this Christmas) can be attributed to their mess last year when they had the momentum and pulled another shortage situation (not uncommon for them, but always a costly mistake).

I think out of all Nintendo's so-called "mistakes", their #1 reason for this flat-selling (not terrible since they are still on par with last year) is that they literally missed Christmas last December.

For 3 of the 4 busiest shopping days of the year, GCN's were not on the shelves while PS2's and XBox's were.

Gamestop's online finder showed that it was hard to find a store that still had GCNs, so it's no just anedoctal evidence). They had momentum going into Christmas, but their two most important home products, GCN and Mario Kart, were massively undershipped.

That would have been the time to seize the moment. They had one of the most popular games along with sell-out business, but they didn't have enough product on the shelves. There was no GTA or Halo last year, NFS: Underground was available on their system and they had Mario Kart...

It's disturbing that they would even be celebrating a victory over XBox last year because in reality, they could have sold a lot more with product available...

The trend doesn't look to good this year, but hopefully they'll have enough product so that even with high-profile games on other systems, they can maybe sell during the Christmas rush enough to stay in the race (they've been consistently at 20% the last couple of years, if they can stay there, they can maybe recover next year somewhat with RE4 and Maturelda).

They also need to make sure Donkey Konga's are available in good quantity, Gamestop's online looker has been showing some sold-out locations (looks like they refilled yesterday though, but many still show only 1-3 available). The bundle is a good idea for Christmas, but hopefully they ship more a good number. About 500,000 sounds good, they could easily sell a good million Cubes in Nov + December if 1/2 of them were sold as $99.99 Mario Kart bundles...