Blargonaut
Banned
meta reasons? What meta reasons?
Are you discouraging speculation about yourself?
And don't hold my angle against me. I gotta Win somehow.
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Pineapple Pizza Mafia |OT| The War On Fruit Pizza
- Thread starter Sophia
- Start date
meta reasons? What meta reasons?
Are you discouraging speculation about yourself?
And don't hold my angle against me. I gotta Win somehow.
I actually thought the Natiko NK was more of what I expected from scum than Day 1's SexyFish NK. Natiko was generally read as town by people, and he had mostly dispelled the suspicion over him from his Miller claim. Taking out Swamped with a decisive last-minute save earned him town cred, too. Wiping out a townie who has weathered suspicion successfully, who generally had good reads, while getting revenge for Swamped at the same time strikes me as a pretty clear scum motivation.
To be frank, I do believe you killed Natiko, but I think you did it as part of the scum team. You are trying to wiggle out of a lynch by claiming neutral, but are too afraid of a tracker/watcher to lie about the hit.
hey_monkey
Banned
I'm not discouraging. I'm casting shade on YOU doing it while trying to convince us that jk you are really just town with a different label.
Meta re: Natiko: he wanted out of the game. We are low on replacements and he came back and said he'd be putting a replacement in a bad situation anyway. Then he claimed. Under other circumstances he might have been shady af. In these, most people professed belief. No one was chasing him. Everyone was letting him be.
Meta re: Natiko: he wanted out of the game. We are low on replacements and he came back and said he'd be putting a replacement in a bad situation anyway. Then he claimed. Under other circumstances he might have been shady af. In these, most people professed belief. No one was chasing him. Everyone was letting him be.
hey_monkey
Banned
Yeah, if he is neutral, he's dangerous. And lying or evading. So.
vote: Blargonaut
vote: Blargonaut
Day 3 votes
timetokill (0)
launchpadmcq 2173 (2183)
blargonaut (6)
hey_monkey 2175 (2581)
burbeting 2178
palmer_v1 2180
launchpadmcq 2183 (2291)
skyodin 2276
acohrs 2407 (2615)
nomadic sparks 2408
isaacnukem 2434 (2596)
dr. worm 2504 (2509)
lifeline 2666
hey_monkey 2704
palmer_v1 (0)
isaacnukem 2177 (2434)
nomadic sparks (0)
timetokill 2361 (2438)
skyodin (0)
nomadic sparks 2368 (2385)
hey_monkey (1)
timetokill 2438
lifeline 2518 (2666)
blackbuzzard (1)
acohrs 2615
An up to date vote count can be found here
Majority is 9
Day 3 ends in:
timetokill (0)
blargonaut (6)
burbeting 2178
palmer_v1 2180
skyodin 2276
nomadic sparks 2408
lifeline 2666
hey_monkey 2704
palmer_v1 (0)
nomadic sparks (0)
skyodin (0)
hey_monkey (1)
timetokill 2438
blackbuzzard (1)
acohrs 2615
An up to date vote count can be found here
Majority is 9
Day 3 ends in:
Blargonaut
Banned
You are not going to beat my logic behind my motive by repeating to me what I already addressed and recently too. I see you on the last page too, Burbeting. Quote me some of Natiko's posts where he comes off as generally Town. Then put those in the context of his claim. What he did. Who he killed with a swap of the hand and a hammer. How he did it. The tie he broke at the last minute in order to do that. What he did exactly to gain Town's trust outside of a clearly potentially opportunistic bus of a possible teammate of his. By simple virtue of him changing his mind at the last minute, by acting as a tie-breaker at the most critical moment where anyone can swing death anywhere, that's the dictionary's definition of Town to you people? Unfuckingbelievable. Take a step back and listen to what I'm trying to point out to you. Dismantle one of my replies piece-by-piece, I am telling you how to honourably fuck me up because I am running out of synonyms.
Why would scum kill Natiko. Him claiming as a Miller supersedes all Town reads of him. It puts him high on the Town-should-kill list and lowest rung on the scum-should-kill list. If Natiko had survived to Today? What the F would you posthumous respect-payers do? Are you honestly suggesting to me, that you fucks would allow a Miller to live and live and live, as long as he kept feeding you with quality takes? By very nature of the Role they are forever unconfirmABLE. KEY FUCKING SUFFIX. That is A HUGE FUCKING DEAL where my play comes from. Are you honestly telling me that you would give a hard UNCONFIRMABLE player a front-seat to the end-game just because they're soft-skilled? Look at hey_monkey's fucking Role-claim. Do you see that alleged shit? THAT IS A 2-SHOT ALIGNMENT INVESTIGATOR. Who is absolutely useless against him. What the fuck were you all planning to do with Natiko later? Interrupt your regularly-scheduled scumhunting to dedicate a Day to TURBO'ing him out before MYLO/LYLO? Xam lend me the vocab because what the fuck are you all smoking?
Scum had every motive to keep him alive. We are talking about pure hard power. Natiko alive is scum's ammunition cache. Natiko alive is a scum fortress. Town reads of Natiko don't mean shit in the face of that kind of UNCONFIRMABLE claim. THAT is scum diversionary GOLD. Scum had and never will have the motive to kill a Miller themselves. For the sake of their own fucking faction why the fuck would they? I am the one who killed Natiko, and I am a Neutral.
You dropping your BELIEF in Natiko as nonchalant and matter-of-factly as you can subtly muster is NOT going to supersede the hard context in front of you.
Don't think I don't see you having personal stake in not letting me live past Today, Sky. Don't think I haven't forgotten my other half as shipped by hey_monkey. By the tenets of your own claim, I am the single greatest threat to your existence outside of scum's kill. Luckily for you I'm right here for the convenient-ass kicking, yeah?
Thank you for your kind words in saying that I, Blargonaut, could convince the scum team to kill a Miller. I have never had anyone believe in me as much as you do. Thank you, SkyOdin.
Thank you. Now please explain to me what you mean by your tracker/watcher line.
Meanwhile, I'll take this opportunity to explain my apparent Swamped assist.
Firstly, I didn't know she was scum. dattebayo
Yes, I BELIEVED her Ordinary Role-claim. I stick by my reasoning Yesterday; her claim-context matched WAMD's and BB's in that they were justifiably given under vote duress, and I trusted that more in that they were driven by necessity rather than inscrutable want like Palmer's. Today, Palmer's shifted his narrative to incorporating my duress vocab, him covering his own ass with my work should be a sign I'm making sense here.
So you might ask me why I orchestrated the late-Day vote shunt towards Palmer. For said reason above, aye. And also:
For more, simply.
The Day was settling into an acres v. Swamped Thun- nope, disservice. Just a dome. Two low-energy opponents set up by others to be the FITE OF THE CENTURY* (*hyperbole: boring two-party election)?
Nope. I felt stagnation was Bad. I wanted to know more. Shouldn't you've? Before I advanced against Palmer, I tried to maintain the Swamped v. achers vote count at that tie when it was at the 5~5 range. I wanted to see who moved, if anyone, for anyone's sake. That's where the juiciest tells come from. No one really did.
So I waited a bit more, and then Launch finally moves and tips the count balance against Swamped. LaunchpadMcQ, who had called out Swamped in the first place on D2 himself, does this. Quite willing to step over the edge for your principles, eh?
And speaking of the origin of those; Lifeline and isaacnukem followed up Launch's first notice with their own shitvote pressure; alright, "fine". Then Darryl took a seat on her vote count, and never got up again. Hmm. Then acohrs joined in self-defense (this around the time the Dome is truly forming). Understandable. Then, the fulcrum: Swamped claims Ordinary. Then Dr. Worm is the first to vote against her post-claim. Says he doesn't BELIEVE in corporate (i.e., pizza brand Role names). And then, it lulls until end-of-Day, where the real shit happens. Palmer and Launch oscillate; Launch saying he was shaken by her Ordinary claim as his reasoning for unsurety. Alright, given he started the attack on Swamped in the early first place, I'm inclined to BELIEVE he wasn't part of a bussing. But Palmer. Fucking Palmer. He joins in mid-way, and then has the gall to say he doesn't BELIEVE Swamped's Ordinary claim because it was the most recent... made under vote duress, made in context of Palmer's squatting in the Role. How fucking weird is that?
My motives then, continue to be in what I said about this shit Yesterday, so to reiterate my very simple reasons:
- Swamped saved Palmer D1. Palmer wanted her dead D2. Was that not questionable against Palmer?
- Palmer was not only the first, but the only Ordinary to claim when not under vote duress. This is not a position of credibility in any way. Nothing made him the authority on Ordinary claims and their existence and/or quantity in this Role Madness game. Yet he acted like he was. Why? For what possible motive? Was that not questionable against Palmer?
- Palmer attacks Swamped's Ordinary claim midway in the pile against her because he said it was the most recent, and this is somehow a scumtell and justification for a lynch against Swamped despite his being the first for no reason and it being made under no pressure whatsoever? Which is more believable? Hers or Palmer's?
Personally, I found more reason to trust Swamped. I supported Swamped because of Palmer's stance against her, and the strange fucking context he put her claim in. I chose to support Swamped in the end because I found her to be a more valuable player than acohrs the one your Dome pitted her against. In the end, I simply valued commitment over inconsistency.
WAMD is dead, her claim was real. Now Swamped is dead, and hers wasn't. Now who're the "Ordinaries" left? Palmer, BlackBuzzard and acohrs. 2 Ordinaries outed under vote duress, despite how shitty acorns' claim was. Palmer is still there.
Blargonaut
Banned
I did not use this against him. My reasoning is purely within the confines of the game.
Blargonaut
Banned
If you want to corral these fools into a semblance of a committee dedicated to fucking a suggestion up, then be my guest.
Nomadic Sparks
Banned
Blargh is delightfully insane
You are the most agendaful slimy sidewinding backstabbing filth of a player this fucking side of the galactic core and I curse the Day Town decided you were meaningful to this game.
Natiko was a late Miller claimant. You Town-read that? Just because he hammer-voted scum!Swamped out does not equate confirmation of Alignment nor good intent. You Town-read that? The keyword here is bussing. And anti-Town my ass, Vigilantes kill Millers all the fucking time.
Bussing, which by the way, you mightily fucking might've been a part of yourself. You did exactly what I predicted you would do Yesterday when you jumped vote last-minute and participated in a potential bussing of Swamped, despite her saving you D1? Why did you even have her in your sights? You jumped onto the Swamped count midway, you weren't the origin. Launch was. And you had every motivation for gratitude for Swamped after D1 and you scorned it instead, and then I'm supposed to Town-read you for your end-of-Day leapfrogging? Am I honestly meant to believe you didn't bus Swamped out after all this? Get the fuck out with that
fuck off with that and your selfish-ass spin, good for you annoying me so much, you are fucking great I love you
And what the fuck do you mean by that Lifeline line? come back a sec
Lifeline was the only person more town confirmed to me after day end.
Also, I wish you always played like this more often. You're much more fun when you're not shit posting.
GG though cause you gonna die.
I hold more belief in Blarg's claim than yours Palmer. His post above just reminded me, who's ordinary claims do you believe, and who's do you not?
Please say yours
Blargonaut
Banned
Blargonaut
Banned
I spit on your cyberself, contribute more
Blargonaut
Banned
I'm going to sleep, I still want to drop my take regarding Darryl tomorrow.
Enjoy yourselves.
Enjoy yourselves.
we'd still need a cop somewhere, so nah
hey_monkey
Banned
There's nothing there to use against him. It all-but clears him. Saying you didn't consider it at all with everything else that's going on looks like pure evasion. You expect folks to believe that I, in my second game of mafia, have engineered some kind of elaborate tracker-gambit, but you didn't weigh the fact that Natiko's situation all-but cleared him as an actual miller?
Blarg.
Come on.
If we grant that the above is true - that you didn't consider the meta reasons at all, then I can almost understand your logic... but there's no reason to assume that everyone else was also using the same logic. In fact, there's all the reason in the world to believe the people who pulled back from Natiko and said yeah, that seems believable in this context. You are wholly manufacturing this Natiko-miller suspicion. In another game, sure. But we aren't in another game. We're in this game.
Useless in that regard anyway because I'm out of shots. But mafia shouldn't be about shots and investigations. Mafia is about people. If Natiko started acting in a way that was not in town's interest, there are other ways to investigate that. But Natiko wasn't. If you sincerely thought you were helping town, Blarg, you chose wrong. But I don't think you were. I think you're spinning a grand narrative, and is it ever grand. It's good. It may sell some people. But it's bullshit built on a bullshit foundation.
???? If you're talking about the possible partner stuff, that wasn't me. The only "other half" thing I addressed as the halves of your role as presented by you. And then we all asked about your win con.
I mean, it was d2. It's not exactly FIREWORKS PARTY 100% TRUTH IN FUCKERY-ville for mafia. Except WOW one of those "low-energy" folks flipped scum. And if scum didn't have a night kill last night because they got blocked, then I'd guess someone else out there is on another right track. Maybe what looks like stagnation isn't so stagnant after all. But you know that too. I don't need to tell you. There are power roles and conclusions popping off all around us. But we agree on fostering discussion. On keeping things going. I'm with you there.
I left all this in here because it's an interesting read on the situation that ignores approximately half of what was discussed about Swamped pre-flip. I think that sums up Blarg in this game. He may be offering real analysis and may even be right but it's buried in so many other half-truths and twists and turns that it cannot be trusted.
How about instead of lynching Blarg, we lynch Monkey and have Blarg shoot Sky if Monkey flips scum.
Or we still have time left before day end so let's find another target to lynch and have Blarg shoot Monkey.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Monkey what do you think of Sky's role claim.
Nomadic Sparks
Banned
BlackBuzzard
Banned
In response to me asking for flavor before the day 2 end.
Now he has been dodging this question and deflecting back to me. You already claimed Vanilla you unveiling your role name and your flavor isn't gonna change anything, or you hiding something?
Vote: acohrs
hey_monkey
Banned
I think it's outlandish for something just made up. I can see how it could be used for a fake scum play because, yeah, it makes him someone we don't want to lynch but there was no reason at all to lynch Sky - all that's made him suspicious is his claim. Even if I was lying and my check was wrong, he'd be third in line for that and have plenty of time to redeem himself. But I have the truth of my town-check personally, though I kinda wish he hadn't claimed because now it will always be a question mark unless he's killed and flipped in another way. I feel in that way it cast some doubt on my cop claim. I already said all that in an earlier post, though.
The big thing is, after his weird day 1 behavior stopped (and he explained it; like I said, I remember that convo on outergafia and so it made sense), I'd have figured Sky as town regardless of claims or checks. When it comes to hunting scum, he isn't much on my radar. If we can get 1-2 more scum in the next few day phases, his role just really doesn't matter.
hey_monkey
Banned
I mean, not that I want to support your shady ass in voting for me, but you do have to use whole names.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Fair i just don't like the fact he didn't use it to bait out scum and get him NK'd its just a really weird claim to make when you green checked him, there was no pressure on him to do what he did he actually did a very anti town thing.
hey_monkey
Banned
I expect Sky is in a kind of feelsbadman situation right now over this. But it's done and it can't be changed.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
I will drop it for now but im def keeping it in mind for the rest of the game.
hey_monkey
Banned
I mean, yeah. There's still the mystery of what else happens if he gets killed. Does that trigger on other deaths? Just on lynch? such mystery
BlackBuzzard
Banned
So yeah only on town lynch so i think if Blarg had killed him or the person that killed WAMD it would not have triggered.
hey_monkey
Banned
Yeah, but there was that other thing Sophia wouldn't tell him about so that's at least half a question mark.
I read about BP on the wiki: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Beloved_Princess
Since there's nothing here about additional actions generally, Sophia could be tormenting us with literally anything.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
i think that's still only triggered if he gets lynched.
timetokill
Banned
I mean, that's if we believe that claim in the first place, which honestly comes across as less likely than even Blarg's crazy claim.
hey_monkey
Banned
Could be. If someone wants to test if Blarg could be trustworthy that's one route, but a) I don't trust Blarg and b) I'm against killing town for experiments and funsies unless it's going to yield something.
Does it? Does it really? It's an ill-timed and unnecessary claim but it's not the first in the game. How do you feel about Palmer's claim? That was before you joined, but. But I'd like to hear something besides "Sky made himself unkillable" as a reason for his claim being unbelievable, since no one was planning on killing him anyway.
I'd be less inclined to believe Sky if he threw this out under duress. I think he did believe he was doing something useful. None of his behavior reads to me as cagey scum trying a ploy. BUT - I'm biased because I believe my check, and that's info only I have, and also I already had a fuckup in the game so my meter could be off.
timetokill
Banned
Has anybody else considered that monkey, sky, and Blarg could all be scum?
If not, think about it.
We lynch Blarg. Blarg is scum! Wow, monkey is so town! And so is SkyOdin! Such town.
Nobody would ever think to lynch monkey ever again! And obviously not Sky either, especially with that nasty lynch penalty.
Days pass as we end up killing more and more town and turning on each other. Why can't we find them?
If not, think about it.
We lynch Blarg. Blarg is scum! Wow, monkey is so town! And so is SkyOdin! Such town.
Nobody would ever think to lynch monkey ever again! And obviously not Sky either, especially with that nasty lynch penalty.
Days pass as we end up killing more and more town and turning on each other. Why can't we find them?
A problem with letting Blarg pass for a bit is not knowing what leads to chase for an alternative lynch. I don't know of any. Blarg being scum is a trail that leads to Verelios. Blarg being neutral is a trail that leads me back to my last intuition, which was Palmer/Burb. Palmer and Burb have both been fine to me today, but if Blarg was a neutral than scum have had an easy day to earn town points and I have to disregard my opinion of them that I built up. I wanted to lynch them at the start of the day, so assuming Blarg is neutral I have to trace back to where I was then.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Blarg right now
isaacnukem
Member
I covered this yesterday. Sometimes I think no one reads my posts because you're not the first to bring this up again.
timetokill
Banned
My bad, Isaac. I'm just getting to this thread today now, the thought was probably planted in my head by your post in the first place!
yes, we discussed this for most of the pages before Blarg's claim since day start
once again, there pretty much has to be a town cop due to the presence of a Miller. if hey_monkey is not that town cop, the real cop needs to claim. any explanation of hey_monkey as scum requires identification of another town cop.
isaacnukem
Member
Well you posted yesterday right after my post, I'm almost sure...
Anyway, I like Blargonaut's reasoning in taking out Natiko. It makes so much sense. Him missing out on a kill on the first night I think reflects well on his loyalty towards town, and doesn't seem indicative of someone who wants to win by trying to kill everyone.
As for Natiko being town on the last day because of his actions, I don't buy it. I forgot what a miller does, honestly thought it was a mason, so I'm frankly surprised not a lot of fuss was thrown about regarding that. Last minute busses aren't new in Mafia, if you see them as proof that someone is town, then you'll often lose because scum can and will dispose of their teammates because in the end it's a team effort.
Anyway, I like Blargonaut's reasoning in taking out Natiko. It makes so much sense. Him missing out on a kill on the first night I think reflects well on his loyalty towards town, and doesn't seem indicative of someone who wants to win by trying to kill everyone.
As for Natiko being town on the last day because of his actions, I don't buy it. I forgot what a miller does, honestly thought it was a mason, so I'm frankly surprised not a lot of fuss was thrown about regarding that. Last minute busses aren't new in Mafia, if you see them as proof that someone is town, then you'll often lose because scum can and will dispose of their teammates because in the end it's a team effort.
isaacnukem
Member
Now if you're scum-Swamped saving scum-Palmer on day 1, that's a whole different story...
That is a good point. To be honest, I don't know whether or not Blarg is mafia or neutral for sure. It could go either way. Being certain about that would help.
Can you point to anything specific about Palmer and Burbeting? I kinda felt like their was a connection there, but I haven't had time to dig through Day 2 yet. Can you point me to a post or two to start?
timetokill
Banned
Truth, which is why I'm pretty sure at least one if not two scum were on the Blarg bus earlier, trying to cut short our day and ability to discuss things.
No it isn't.
If this is a monkey-sky-blarg team bussing Blarg, this plays directly into their hands. It's easy to plan going into today to bus Blarg because he was already high on the target list due to D2.
I still think the sanest option is still to lynch monkey to verify all three of them at once. Worst case is literally that we have to turbo Blarg the next day. The worst case in the other direction would be catastrophic.
town wins by eliminating all threats to town.
being bussed means he's a threat; thus, he must be eliminated
play the wincon now, and then spend D4 tossing out your whatif scenarios and casting aspersions upon hey_monkey's asparagus
Whose*
timetokill
Banned
Found your post about it. Yeah, I think you're on the right track here. We are fucked if all three are scum and we lynch Blarg first.
Verelios and Isaac and 30(timetokill?) are still fairly suspect after D1 and D2, IMO.