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Piracy: A Serious Discussion

capslock

Is jealous of Matlock's emoticon
First a little about where I live, Bangladesh a poor country in South Asia, where 9 out of 10 stores carry only pirated movies and software. I just came back from a glitzy store across the street that looks just like your run of the mill western software store except every single one of the software products they carry is pirated. And this isnt just your father's pirated shit either, I am talking about gliztzy, shiny, think DVD boxes and discs with labels that only an expert would be able to tell apart from the real deal. The average price for a game is about US $ 2-3.

Now the question is, undoubtedly the North American market as well as the European and Japanese are the three biggest in the world, and piracy has a very small (but growing) effect there. But Asia has a rapidly growing middle class with a taste for fancy electronics, and more and more of them are buying video game consoles, usually the PS2 (modded). And the games they play on them are almost without exception pirated. What to do about this? No doubt Sony still comes out on top since there is no way to pirate the hardware and they sell a shitload of PS2s, but they lose out on the royalties, not to mention the publishers. It doesn't look like the governments will strictly enforce piracy laws (if they exist in the first place), since they have stuff like actually feeding their population to worry about. So that means lesser players in the console market like Nintendo and MS are getting completely screwed, and publishers are losing money due to piracy.


What is the solution? Should publishers lower prices on their software? To think about it, why SHOULD a game cost 2.5 times that of a DVD movie? Should Sony do a Nintendo and go for a media format that is hard to pirate? But then they lose out on the hardware sales. What is the solution? Because you know that if a guy is given the same product for a 10th of the price, he won't go for the more expensive option? Should Asia be ignored while the console makers concentrate on defending the big three regions? How do you think piracy will ultimately affect the industry? Because it sure as hell is not going to go away.
 
capslock said:
First a little about where I live, Bangladesh a poor country in South Asia, where 9 out of 10 stores carry only pirated movies and software. I just came back from a glitzy store across the street that looks just like your run of the mill western software store except every single one of the software products they carry is pirated. And this isnt just your father's pirated shit either, I am talking about gliztzy, shiny, think DVD boxes and discs with labels that only an expert would be able to tell apart from the real deal. The average price for a game is about US $ 2-3.

Now the question is, undoubtedly the North American market as well as the European and Japanese are the three biggest in the world, and piracy has a very small (but growing) effect there. But Asia has a rapidly growing middle class with a taste for fancy electronics, and more and more of them are buying video game consoles, usually the PS2 (modded). And the games they play on them are almost without exception pirated. What to do about this? No doubt Sony still comes out on top since there is no way to pirate the hardware and they sell a shitload of PS2s, but they lose out on the royalties, not to mention the publishers. It doesn't look like the governments will strictly enforce piracy laws (if they exist in the first place), since they have stuff like actually feeding their population to worry about. So that means lesser players in the console market like Nintendo and MS are getting completely screwed, and publishers are losing money due to piracy.


What is the solution? Should publishers lower prices on their software? To think about it, why SHOULD a game cost 2.5 times that of a DVD movie? Should Sony do a Nintendo and go for a media format that is hard to pirate? But then they lose out on the hardware sales. What is the solution? Because you know that if a guy is given the same product for a 10th of the price, he won't go for the more expensive option? Should Asia be ignored while the console makers concentrate on defending the big three regions? How do you think piracy will ultimately affect the industry? Because it sure as hell is not going to go away.

People that can't afford it are probably always going to pirate. I don't think there is a solution and it will only get worse with things getting more expensive next generation.
 
I think there is no solution to this problem. I always try to support my favourite game developers and buy favourite films on DVD as many times as I can afford, but.... BUT. There is always the question: why throw out 50$ on a game that doesn't deliver? In the piracy world, you lose the worth of one blank DVD-R.

The people who can't afford 50$ on a game, will always leech it, burn it and play it. Or buy it at the shop for 3 or 4$. Because if they are ABLE to do it and the gameplay expierence is not any different AT ALL had he spent his 50$ on it, why shouldn't he, in the end? I mean, can you see any reasons for him to do so? To stimulate the world's economy? Bah.
 
When those third world countries can make the kind of money we (the western world) do with a limited amount of education, then I will be envious.

Until then .. let them be entertained for cheap.

In the mid 80's I bought Epyx 'Summer Games' for around 35 dollars for my C-64. The other day, I bought Mario Sunshine and Metroid Prime for 12.50 each!

Gaming has never been cheaper.
 
capslock said:
The average price for a game is about US $ 2-3.

What is the solution?

since $40-50 is too much for poorer countries, maybe they should just set up a $2-$3 videogame rental system instead, but then again that's dependent on whether pirates want to stop pirating and only they can answer that
 
The only realistic way to significantly lower piracy is for the rich countries to actually help the developement of poor countries instead of being a parasitic leech.
 
A big problem is that a lot of the times the actual product isn't even shipped to these countries. For someone in a small-market country to get a hold of legit games, they'd have to import them all from pricey resellers. I think publishers would be very surprised how many people in smaller markets would buy legit copies if they actually bothered to ship them out there.

Sure, most of them will still buy the cheaper pirate stuff, but you have to start somewhere. At least give them an alternative.
 
Solution= charge less money.

Thailand did this a few years ago with CD and movie theatre prices and it helped. As far as the PS2/Xbox rampant pirating...fuck them. Everyone and their grandma ragged on the Gamecube for the "OMG how are you gonna fit Final Fantasy XIV on that??" GOD disks (as of today it isnt ever gonna be profitable to pirate a GameCube disk).

Console sales charts look good on paper and at board meetings but software sales are were the "bread and butter" are at. I will shed a tear when the first DS pirate games are on sale in Bangkok, but have no simpathy when I see Halo-2 selling for 2$US right next to it...
 
Naked Shuriken said:
So its ok to pirates games for a console you dont like? :lol

Yeah I didn't really get the point of that post either?

Regardless, I don't fucking care if poor countries pirate our shit. America is now the biggest producers of IPs in the world today, but there was a time when we also used to be the world's biggest pirate (of European books, patents, etc.). I am sure them pirating probably doesn't come close to making up for all the ways they probably get screwed by developed nations in other ways (just a guess :D).
 
solution is to make a harder to hack console ..


Sony are doing this in purpose, it just adds to their hardware sales .. every newer version of the PS2 (before the slim) was easier to hack than the previous.

just 2 blocks away from me theres a shop where I can get any XB/PS2 game for $5
 
The big companies don't care about those regions. If they lower the cost of games there, they won't make as much money and just risk LOSING (note the single 'o') money. It's not worth it to release in poor countries. If they can't pay full price, it's not worth it in a business sense.
 
ToxicAdam said:
When those third world countries can make the kind of money we (the western world) do with a limited amount of education, then I will be envious.

Until then .. let them be entertained for cheap.

In the mid 80's I bought Epyx 'Summer Games' for around 35 dollars for my C-64. The other day, I bought Mario Sunshine and Metroid Prime for 12.50 each!

Gaming has never been cheaper.


Outstanding post, I agree 100%. Do those smaller markets do account for the bottom line, but the US, Europe and Japan are the big markets anyway. Let them eat cake I say. ;)
 
the solution is obvious, in placem and I don't get why it isn't leveraged even more...

All of the software companies make money in the big three markets. US, Japan, and Europe. Sales to these three markets almost always equals profit. Now what I don't get is in the third world countries. All you would need to do is include a territorial lockout (which everyone already does) and then price games in thrid world markets/territories at ridiculously cheap prices. I mean think about it. Sony is still going to make money selling games for $2-3 in those countries. Not a lot, but frankly anything beyond $0 is a lot. they could even reduce or remove license fees from publishers who also sell their games there. win/win

but as always, it comes down to what is the most they can sell them for. Look at the revenues brought in by companies in the US. Does EA really have to charge $50 or even $40 for Madden 2005? No, they could probably make money on it even at $20 a copy... they charge $40 and $50 because they can and people will still buy it.
 
there is no solution

if the benefits outweighed the costs all the big companies would be selling games there. They aren't. Thefore its prolly not worth the cost of setting up there.

The only way it will ever improve is if those countries reach a high enough economic state that they begin producing their own IP's at which point the government will finally have to say, 'you know what? We don't want our shit stolen either...'
 
Here's the solution: raise video game prices! Because we all love paying for others that pirate. Fuck the consumer in the ass. Yippee!
 
borghe said:
the solution is obvious, in placem and I don't get why it isn't leveraged even more...

All of the software companies make money in the big three markets. US, Japan, and Europe. Sales to these three markets almost always equals profit. Now what I don't get is in the third world countries. All you would need to do is include a territorial lockout (which everyone already does) and then price games in thrid world markets/territories at ridiculously cheap prices. I mean think about it. Sony is still going to make money selling games for $2-3 in those countries. Not a lot, but frankly anything beyond $0 is a lot. they could even reduce or remove license fees from publishers who also sell their games there. win/win

but as always, it comes down to what is the most they can sell them for. Look at the revenues brought in by companies in the US. Does EA really have to charge $50 or even $40 for Madden 2005? No, they could probably make money on it even at $20 a copy... they charge $40 and $50 because they can and people will still buy it.

Nice in theory until you realize that Wario64's weekly posts would all be import games from Third-World countries. :lol :lol

Hell, even with shipping costs, a $10 game would come out to $20-25. I'd buy a Bangladesh PS2 if I could get a Bangladesh God of War for $25.
 
No doubt Sony still comes out on top since there is no way to pirate the hardware and they sell a shitload of PS2s, but they lose out on the royalties, not to mention the publishers.
The thing is, I don't think Sony does come out on top if the only thing they sell is hardware. Even though Sony and Nintendo say that it costs less to make a PS2 or GC than what is sells for, you have to remember that these companies spent tons of dollars on R&D to make these products. I could be wrong, but I believe that no console maker ever makes money on the hardware and all the money is made on software.

If they do make money on hardware, I'm sure extra controllers and memory cards have a lot to do with it.
 
Well...I'm just wondering capslock...do you notice the middle class folk sticking with the nicely packaged pirated software, rather than the el cheapo ones in paper cases?

I think the problem is with these companies/people packaging and redistributing these games. Why not clamp down on them and put them in jail? Aren't there international laws for this to occur?

My guess is that there are probably 15-30 sources of these meticulously recreated pirated software (with the slick packaging and such), and so to take out a lot of them shouldn't be too hard, and will scare away the others.

Maybe Sony/MS don't care enough to bother doing so.

So in a nutshell, my solution: Go after the creators of this pirated software, hit them hard and scare the rest.

Another solution for future consoles...make them far more costly to hack/mod. I think at the same time, they should make games multi-regional in the future so there is no need to do so for gamers who like to play imported games.
 
making a system harder to crack or mod is easier said than done, hackers and crackers come up with the most ingenious idead sometimes... but truthfully, that is the only solution, trying to match or come close to the price of pirated goods won't be profitable...
 
Fight for Freeform said:
Well...I'm just wondering capslock...do you notice the middle class folk sticking with the nicely packaged pirated software, rather than the el cheapo ones in paper cases?

I think the problem is with these companies/people packaging and redistributing these games. Why not clamp down on them and put them in jail? Aren't there international laws for this to occur?

My guess is that there are probably 15-30 sources of these meticulously recreated pirated software (with the slick packaging and such), and so to take out a lot of them shouldn't be too hard, and will scare away the others.

Maybe Sony/MS don't care enough to bother doing so.

So in a nutshell, my solution: Go after the creators of this pirated software, hit them hard and scare the rest.

Another solution for future consoles...make them far more costly to hack/mod. I think at the same time, they should make games multi-regional in the future so there is no need to do so for gamers who like to play imported games.



What you have to understand is that while the games are super cheap, the consoles are still fairly expensive here, a PS2 still goes for over US $ 300, so videogaming is still a primarily Upper-middle class hobby. As for the knock offs, the el cheapo looking ones are harder and harder to find, I would almost say the packaging of the new pirated stuff is as good as, if not better than the stuff you get in the developed nations. However, they are usually missing extras like instruction manuals, but with in game tutorials nowadays I think they're hardly missed.
 
The only thing I want to say is that all my games are legitimate. However, for the next Valve release, I will be buying the pirated version of it (which can be found rather easily where I live) because Half-Life 2/Steam gave me so much bullshit.

So, I would be saving myself a good amount of cash and a whole lot of Steaming bullshit (sorry). I WIN!
 
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