PlayStation Plus Thread: Plus What? PLUS EVERYTHING!

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Snuggler said:
oh wait, running out loses everything? so I'd have to re-up before it runs out or lose all the stuff I've got?

damn.

It kind of defeats itself because the games and DLC that I actually WANT are worth purchasing so that I actually OWN them, so Plus doesn't help me with that, and anything else is just games I wouldn't have bought or DLC for games I don't have. All it's got going for it is early access stuff and discounts, at least for me.


Read. You keep all DLC you download. It doesn't expire. All of that FUD was based on an extremely poorly written article and headline for clicks.

SolidusDave: Before running around screaming the sky is falling, why don't you contact Customer Service instead of a message board where no one can help you or answer a question with factual knowledge?
 
Right, just spoke to a PSstore supervisor on the phone.

Everything we pay any money for we keep forever.

If we got a game for free (e.g Cuboid) and our Sub runs out without automatic renewal. . .we lose it forever. Even if the gap between our sub running out and being re-subbed is 1 hour, we lose it forever.

Thats a bit of a fucker.
 
Do they email you before your sub runs out or contact you in any way?

It kinda sucks, but I have like 12-13 months to decide if I want to keep it. For myself, a year from now I might have vastly different tastes.
 
aristotle said:
That does kind of suck. Do they email you before your sub runs out or contact you in any way?

It kinda sucks, but I have like 12-13 months to decide if I want to keep it. For myself, a year from now I might have vastly different tastes.

I forgot to ask that. We do have the option of setting it to 'auto-renew' in our account settings, so thats a handy way of just letting it handle itself.

Before I spoke to the supervisor I spoke to a regular customer service person who specialised in the PlayStation store and he told me he was 85% sure what the policies were. It seems to me that its been poorly communicated to consumers and employees.
 
aristotle said:
SolidusDave: Before running around screaming the sky is falling, why don't you contact Customer Service instead of a message board where no one can help you or answer a question with factual knowledge?

uhm, there was no reason to believe that this was a bug and not a "feature". I restarted my PS3 and PSN and clicked the games, downloaded the new PSN+ games etc. in case it needs some re-authentication. I was already suspicious when I noticed that they removed all the PSN+ games from your download history after my sub ended, but I wanted to wait until I re-subscribe. Also, one (link to a) person saying "no, I kept all my stuff" would be enough "factual knowledge" (I tried to google btw), I don't see why I shouldn't post my experience here.

This was actually a little test, too. I already knew I would re-subscribe but I let the first sub end on purpose.

edit: ok, sorry, I could have talked to the customer service (though honestly they sometimes don't know shit and I would need to contact the service of another country to get some real answers), but it turned out to be true.


but Galvanise_ already confirmed it anyway:
Galvanise_ said:
Right, just spoke to a PSstore supervisor on the phone.

Everything we pay any money for we keep forever.

If we got a game for free (e.g Cuboid) and our Sub runs out without automatic renewal. . .we lose it forever. Even if the gap between our sub running out and being re-subbed is 1 hour, we lose it forever.

Thats a bit of a fucker.



edit: no, currently you don't get an email to warn you.
and auto-renewal only works if you have a cc for this account or you remember to load up your account with enough funds in advance.
 
This is clearly in violation of what Sony has written before. I'll cite the "Unofficial FAQ" from the OP:
Once downloaded, the games are yours to keep and play as long as you are a member of PlayStation Plus. If your subscription lapses and then you re-subscribe, the games you have already downloaded will reactivate, so you still have access to them.
That text is still up on this page as of this moment:
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/06/24/playstation-plus-your-questions-answered/
 
jvm said:
This is clearly in violation of what Sony has written before. I'll cite the "Unofficial FAQ" from the OP:

That text is still up on this page as of this moment:
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/06/24/playstation-plus-your-questions-answered/


I was just about to link this as well. I knew I read it somewhere before.

We should pressure Sony to change that (back?). Technically it shouldn't be a problem, as I said, the games you once downloaded are marked in the Store.
 
It sounds to me like it's still a new service and they need to work out the kinks. Unless of course their official statement was wrong in the first place. Sony is one company though if you call enough or raise enough hell, they try to fix the issue at least. Happened to me when I needed to deactivate a system I no longer had.
 
SolidusDave said:
I was just about to post this as well because I was sure I've read this, too.

We should pressure Sony to change that (back?). Technically it shouldn't be a problem, as I said, the games you once downloaded are marked in the Store.
Also, there is an official HK PS+ FAQ which states that the policy as we understood it is the correct policy:
Free Game Download
With a current PlayStation®Plus membership you can download and activate “Free Game Download” titles from the PlayStation®Store. Remember to keep your membership current, since otherwise you can’t keep playing downloaded games. However, once you renew a lapsed membership you can then resume playing your “Free Game Download” titles.
Emphasis mine. Link is here:
http://asia.playstation.com/hk/en/psn/p/plus
 
SolidusDave said:
I was just about to link this as well because I was sure I've read this, too.

We should pressure Sony to change that (back?). Technically it shouldn't be a problem, as I said, the games you once downloaded are marked in the Store.

Indeed. I did tell the supervisor that there would be outrage about this. Lets go get 'em!
 
There's something that i really can't stand those days in the store , and that's the latency after having added a new download.
Before it was instant. Download, back, next item and repeat. Now, it freezes for a long time ( longer with the size of the download apparently ) at the listing of items when you get back to it.
So ... So annoying ...
 
I emailed someone at Sony PR.

If we don't get a response, I think we need to start a new GAF thread and try to get blogs to pick it up.

If people want to contact me directly, there is a possibility I can write up a news item for Gamasutra (I'd have to get hard facts on people, dates, etc) or at the very least a blog item. If I have details, I have more of a chance of getting an official response before publishing.

This is just a possibility, mind you. I can't promise anything.
 
jvm said:
I emailed someone at Sony PR.

If we don't get a response, I think we need to start a new GAF thread and try to get blogs to pick it up.

If people want to contact me directly, there is a possibility I can write up a news item for Gamasutra (I'd have to get hard facts on people, dates, etc) or at the very least a blog item. If I have details, I have more of a chance of getting an official response before publishing.

This is just a possibility, mind you. I can't promise anything.

I'm up for helping raise awareness if the e-mail doesn't clear things up.
 
I say go for it, although I'm not involved in anyway (yet). I'm hoping it's just a snafu and it'll get fixed. Make sure someone keeps the pages where they say you get to keep stuff after you renew archived though.
 
jvm said:
I emailed someone at Sony PR.

If we don't get a response, I think we need to start a new GAF thread and try to get blogs to pick it up.

If people want to contact me directly, there is a possibility I can write up a news item for Gamasutra (I'd have to get hard facts on people, dates, etc) or at the very least a blog item. If I have details, I have more of a chance of getting an official response before publishing.

This is just a possibility, mind you. I can't promise anything.

It is probably a good idea. But make sure to write it in a "we need clarification" point of view and not a confusing misleading piece like the games expiring one.
 
PlayStation Plus Highlights for 12/7:

Featured Games/DLC
Sackboy Prehistoric Moves (Free and early access to PlayStation Plus Subscribers, regular price $5.99)
Tron: Evolution: Black Guard Multiplayer Skin (Free and exclusive to PlayStation Plus Subscribers)

Featured Avatars
Hustle Kings Avatar Bundle (Free to PlayStation Plus Subscribers, regular price $1.49)

Featured Qore Episode
Qore December Episode 31 (Free to PlayStation Plus Subscribers, regular price $2.99)

PlayStation Plus Highlights for 12/14:

Full Game Trial
Prototype Full Game Trial (Free and exclusive to PlayStation Plus Subscribers)

Featured Games
Sam & Max: The Devil’s Playhouse (Episodes 1-5) (Free to PlayStation Plus Subscribers, regular price $34.99)
Fieldrunners (Free to PlayStation Plus Subscribers, regular price $6.99)
Crash Tag Team Racing (Free to PlayStation Plus Subscribers, regular price $5.99)

Discounted Games
Marvel Super Hero Squad PSP (PlayStation Plus price $15.00, regular price $29.99)
Flow PSP (PlayStation Plus price $5.99, regular price $7.99)
Tomb Raider III PS One (PlayStation Plus price $3.00, regular price $5.99)
Galaxy Fight – PS One Import (PlayStation Plus price $3.00, regular price $5.99)

Featured Home Item
Burn Zombie Burn Home Item – Zombie Heads (Free and exclusive to PlayStation Plus Subscribers)

Last Chance, Get Them While You Can – Coming down on December 7:

Featured Offers to PlayStation Plus Subscribers
Qore November Episode 30

Last Chance, Get Them While You Can – Coming down on December 14:

Featured Offers to PlayStation Plus Subscribers
Shatter
Oddworld: Abe’s Exoddus
DYNOGEMS – Minis

Discounted Games/DLC
Landit Bandit (50% off)
Hustle Kings (50% off)
Crash Bandicoot 2 (50% off)
MAG – Interdiction Mission Pack (50% off)

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/12/01/coming-to-playstation-plus-our-biggest-publish-yet/
 
jvm said:
I pinged them in Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jvmatthews/status/10081019231207424

Also posted in that last PS+ post on the forum: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010...-plus-our-biggest-publish-yet/#comment-488276

Anything else we can do to reach out?

I'm going to ring customer services tomorrow morning and quote the T&C at them. I also expressley asked for Ross or James from the EU blog to address these concerns as I did state that everyone is in a state of confusion and many people will be very angry.
 
Yay on the US PS Plus getting Sam and Max. I already bought and beat on the PC, but now I get trophies :D.

Boo on the resub issue, though. Keep up with the posting, though, as they can't be allowed to break their own Terms and Conditions and get away with it. There's easily grounds for a class action lawsuit to get the original PS Plus fee you paid refunded if they don't reactivate past stuff.
 
Dead Nation is just a 3 bucks saving and the whole Qore thing as well,made me come close to finally getting plus...they will get me if they ever do a beta for FFXIV for example,exclusive to + or something like that one of these days...
 
jvm said:
I emailed someone at Sony PR.

If we don't get a response, I think we need to start a new GAF thread and try to get blogs to pick it up.

If people want to contact me directly, there is a possibility I can write up a news item for Gamasutra (I'd have to get hard facts on people, dates, etc) or at the very least a blog item. If I have details, I have more of a chance of getting an official response before publishing.

This is just a possibility, mind you. I can't promise anything.
I think it's the best way, not just a possibility.
 
SolidusDave, there was something about deleting your cookies and the EU PS Blog, I think. Try that? Clear cache? Not sure. :|
 
jvm said:
I emailed someone at Sony PR.

If we don't get a response, I think we need to start a new GAF thread and try to get blogs to pick it up.

If people want to contact me directly, there is a possibility I can write up a news item for Gamasutra (I'd have to get hard facts on people, dates, etc) or at the very least a blog item. If I have details, I have more of a chance of getting an official response before publishing.

This is just a possibility, mind you. I can't promise anything.

Galvanise_ said:
I'm up for helping raise awareness if the e-mail doesn't clear things up.

I agree. As jvm said in post #356 above, it's abundantly clear that lapsed PS+ members should regain access to their previously downloaded content when they resubscribe. This reminds me of the issues that were brought up in posts # 192-194 of this thread.

They cannot simply rewrite the rulebook like this after users have paid for the service. If this was a mere "assumption" on some users' parts and the fine print said otherwise, then that's one thing...but Sony was front and center with these claims when advertising the service in the first place. They have to stick to it now.
 
the resub issue seems kind of strange as i had everything reactivate fine for me after a little messing around when my 3 month sub ran out in september. both wipeout and critter crunch expired for me and they were taken off my DL list and both showed up as not being owned on the ps store. then upon clicking buy it said i had already purchased them and let me DL them again perfectly fine and added them back to my DL list. are we sure this isnt a bug? US PS+ btw
 
Already recycling games? This can't be good. Now that the initial surge of subscription money has probably relaxed, they must have seen sales drop on PSN titles with people just riding the plus gravy train. Here's hoping for an aggressive push for new subs later this month and after christmas so we can get primo content.

Also, Shatter is awesome, so more stuff like that!
 
aj2good4you2 said:
the resub issue seems kind of strange as i had everything reactivate fine for me after a little messing around when my 3 month sub ran out in september. both wipeout and critter crunch expired for me and they were taken off my DL list and both showed up as not being owned on the ps store. then upon clicking buy it said i had already purchased them and let me DL them again perfectly fine and added them back to my DL list. are we sure this isnt a bug? US PS+ btw

Just tried this, when I click purchase it just goes to the checkout screen and displays the respective amount to be taken of my PSN wallet (PAL Store, AT to be precise). One click more and I would actually buy it, or did it only happen at this last step for you?

Maybe they changed it? It's strange that they apparently are aware of that policy, maybe it's indeed a regional thing or there was a misunderstanding among the different teams. I guess we really need more statements to determine if it's a bug or a "feature". Either way, it needs to be taken care of.
 
Ok, long post coming up. Sorry.

I spoke with U.S. Sony support tonight. Here is a rundown of what happened:

7:33PM: Telephoned 800-345-SONY (http://us.playstation.com/corporate/contactus/). I believe I used the menu tree to get to the "redownload" or "activation issues" area. It tells you to dial 0 to speak with someone. I did this.

7:38PM: I get Person 1 on the line. I am very clear about my question: "If I have a PS+ subscription and I download a free game while the subscription is active and then let my subscription lapse, does that free game become available again if I then renew my subscription at a later date?" He tells me he believes that is the case, but will check with someone to be sure.

7:40PM: Person 1 comes back on the line and he tells me that he's been told "If you renew within 30 days, you will still have access to those games." I explain that this is contrary to the plain meaning of Sony's posts on its blog and official support documents in other regions (mentioned HK). He says the blog is unofficial. I counter that, regardless, Sony employees appear to have misrepresented the terms of the service. Person 1 offers to check with a supervisor. I speak to him last at 7:45PM.

7:50PM: Person 1 has passed me off to Person 2, a supervisor. I explain my question carefully again, citing again the statements on the PS Blog. She says that she believes that all games will reactivate when the subscription is renewed, even if it has lapsed for any period of time. However, she offers to check into it for me, and I agree to go on hold again.

7:55PM: Person 2 comes on and reads me what she says is some internal documentation. I believe the clause she read me sounds very similar to parts of this: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/09/10/playstation-plus-faq/

Regardless, it appears to confirm that everything should reactivate when a subscription is renewed, even if it has lapsed. She also says that the documentation makes no mention of a period of time between the end of the original subscription period and the renewal.

She tells me I can find this if I just go to us.playstation.com and search for PlayStation Plus. I say that I cannot find this, could she please tell me where, so I have it for my own records.

8:00PM: Person 2 tells me she's going to put me on hold and search for the documentation on the pubilc PS site.

8:04PM: Person 2 comes back to tell me she's still looking, but can't find it anywhere. She offers to put me on hold some more, and I agree.

8:15PM: Person 2 comes back and says she only found the part of the Terms of Service (for PSN generally, I believe) that refers to subscriptions. It does not, she confirms, describe the terms for PS+.

She offers to get a specialist on the line to speak with me. I agree and go on hold one more time.

8:30PM: Person 2 is back and can't get a specialist. She does say that they will get back to me in 1-2 business days (Thursday or Friday, hopefully) and takes my phone number (cell), email address, and PSN ID. I also get a reference number for my case, which she says will have attached to it electronic copies of all her notes from the phone call tonight.

We discuss that I should call back on Monday, at the latest, if I haven't heard from anyone. I am to use my reference number as a means to get someone on the case directly.

8:35PM: I thank Person 2 and hang up.

------------------

Ok, so Sony U.S. appears to believe precisely what they've been saying publicly. That is, the policy is that free games renew when you renew your subscription.

What now?
 
Has anybody found the reactivation claim in any of the EU/UK Sony pages about PS Plus? It could very well be that the US (and Hong Kong from that other post) do allow reactivation after lapse, but the EU/UK does not.

If it is not specifically mentioned anywhere on the EU/UK site, then any claims fall through and Sony would be able to justify the move. Yes, it would be unfair that US accounts can redownload after lapse and EU ones can't, but it would explain every report we've had so far.
 
Yep, I agree. Could be a regional difference. Was there an EU PS Blog PS+ FAQ at some point?

Answer: Yes. Here is the reference:
Once downloaded, these games are yours to keep and play as long as you are a member of PlayStation Plus. If your subscription lapses and then you re-subscribe the games you have already downloaded will reactivate, so you still have access to them. Additionally, if you delete one of these titles from your PS3 but decide you want to get it back then you can re-download from the Plus section of the Store if the games is still there, or, if the game has expired from the Plus section of the Store, then you can simply search for it on the Store and download it again at no extra cost.
From this page: http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2010/06/23/playstation-plus-explained/
 
jvm said:
Yep, I agree. Could be a regional difference. Was there an EU PS Blog PS+ FAQ at some point?

It just says:

If you do not renew your subscription immediately at the end of each Subscription Period, but later renew your subscription, you may lose your rights to access any Type 2 PlayStation Plus Elements.

Source [Under Playstation Plus Header]


I 'may' lose my rights to access them. Thats bullshit. Will I, or won't I?

So we have customer services saying I will lose access. The Terms and Conditions page saying I 'may' lose access and some other documentation saying I won't lose the rights.

What a fucking joke.
 
No one at Sony has any idea WTF they're talking about. Since day 1 there has been a total lack of communication with customers. 1 person says this and another person says that. This whole thing was clearly rushed and they are just as confused as we are. I hope people speak with their wallets when it's time to renew. What a joke.

Thanks jvm and everyone else for trying to make some noise and bring attention to this issue.
 
Galvanise_ said:
It just says:

I 'may' lose my rights to access them. Thats bullshit. Will I, or won't I?

So we have customer services saying I will lose access. The Terms and Conditions page saying I 'may' lose access and some other documentation saying I won't lose the rights.

What a fucking joke.
There is no documentation that says you won't lose the rights. All the other documentation found so far is for other regions, which doesn't apply to you.

So that leaves customer service saying you will and the T&C saying that you may not have access after non-immediate renewal (and you agreed to that specific document during your purchase saying it was OK either way). Thus, legally, you agreed that it would be OK to deny all content previously downloaded.

It's unfortunate, but there's likely some reasoning as to why they can't offer it in the EU region but can in others.

Edit: see my post below for why I retract these statements.
 
I think the most damning outcome from my phone call tonight was this: Support staff couldn't locate official, public support documentation about the terms for PS+ content.

That pretty much says it all (as noted in the post above me).
 
Got a response back from SCEA PR with a better person to contact about PSN questions. I'll follow up tomorrow.
 
So ... is the Dead Nation discount only valid one day or will it stay until the next update ? Haven't received my PSN cards yet :(
 
Fox1304 said:
So ... is the Dead Nation discount only valid one day or will it stay until the next update ? Haven't received my PSN cards yet :(
It'll most likely be valid for a month. Everything so far has lasted at least that long, but some stuff has lasted longer. It'll definitely be more than a day.
 
Sam & Max: The Devil Playground, coming free to Plus on December.
That's so awesome, I love Sam & Max. Was going to buy it on Steam, this is great news!
 
I sent a message to @Playstation on Twitter last night and got a DM reply.

I asked them about regaining access to everything if you re-sub and this was the reply:

"You do regain access."

---

So, there you go.
 
criesofthepast said:
I sent a message to @Playstation on Twitter last night and got a DM reply.

I asked them about regaining access to everything if you re-sub and this was the reply:

"You do regain access."

So, there you go.
Which region? It's clear that you regain access if you are using US PS Plus, but it appears that you definitely lose it for EU PS Plus at the current time.
 
Clipper said:
Which region? It's clear that you regain access if you are using US PS Plus, but it appears that you definitely lose it for EU PS Plus at the current time.
I didn't know we were talking about Europe. I thought this was the case for all Playstation regions. I'm in Canada so I assume we fall under the US PSN terms as we usually do for everything.

So North America regains access and Europe does not.

This is horse shit for Euro's.

@Playstation I think is the twitter account for SCEA but not sure.
 
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