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[kyoji]

Why isn't this being discussed in broad and more frequent? Am i missing something or misinformed? Why is it that console user is required to have a ps+ subscription to play helldivers 2 (a sony ip) yet across the pond you can play on pc without needing a subscription? I'm assuming playstation thinks this is ok for whatever future live service projects make it to market going forward.

But my question is why are we letting them get away with this? Especially those of you who like live service and or actively playing HD2 on console.

Are we going to get shafted and let free online play turn into psn 2.0 again?? Its down right disrespectful to the core fanbase who CHOOSE to buy into console. If i am missing something let me know. Otherwise we should and need to be beating this drum loud and clear so as to nip this in the bud before more live service games release..

 

[mitch1971]

Dude, you are about 15 years too late.

 

[kyoji]

Dude, you are about 15 years too late.

And this means it shouldnt be talked about till something is changed?

 

[Black_Stride]

Why isn't this being discussed in broad and more frequent? Am i missing something or misinformed? Why is it that console user is required to have a ps+ subscription to play helldivers 2 (a sony ip) yet across the pond you can play on pc without needing a subscription? I'm assuming playstation thinks this is ok for whatever future live service projects make it to market going forward.

But my question is why are we letting them get away with this? Especially those of you who like live service and or actively playing HD2 on console.

Are we going to get shafted and let free online play turn into psn 2.0 again?? Its down right disrespectful to the core fanbase who CHOOSE to buy into console. If i am missing something let me know. Otherwise we should and need to be beating this drum loud and clear so as to nip this in the bud before more live service games release..

Are you new to online console gaming?

A sub has been needed for online play since the Playstation 4 (OGX if you were an Xbox player)......only F2P games dont require a sub.

 

[kyoji]

Are you new to online console gaming?

A sub has been needed for online play since the Playstation 4 (OGX if you were an Xbox player)......only F2P games dont require a sub.

What does that have to do with playstation requiring ps + for a game ip and ips they own going forward? Yet not needing one to play on pc?

 

[ToneyJ]

Realistically, they won't change shit until they lose enough of their marketshare to PC. Fighting games players, for example, have mostly switched over to PC gaming.

Need the Call of Duty / FIFA bros to change though, which probably won't happen.

 

[kyoji]

-

 

[Itchy Tickles]

Sadly requiring an online subscription for console gaming has been a big thing since the 360 era (was out elsehwere before, but 360 made it its own). There are exceptions, like some free to play and MMO games I believe, but Helldivers is not a new case for requiring it.

It is bullshit, always has been and always will be. People have complained about it since day 1, but nothing has changed except the price going up.

If a company needs online services as part of their package, that should be part of their costs, not ours. We buy the hardware, we buy the software, why do we have to pay their bills? Its part of their cost of running a business. Sadly, like microtransactions, we can complain all we want, but they make so much money why would they stop?

 

[mitch1971]

And this means it shouldnt be talked about till something is changed?

By all means talk all you want.

 

[jm89]

It's been discussed for years.

Blame Microsoft for popularising it.

 

[Codes 208]

-

for the same reason ms doesnt charge for the pc version's online. They got dicked on HARD with halo 2 vista

 

[reinking]

Since PS4 this has been a thing. They saw money sitting on the table and that console players were dumb enough to pay it thanks to Xbox Live.


Maybe it will go back to free someday....

Spoiler

 

[kyoji]

I think some of yall are missing the point. I want to know why console is required to have a subscription tier for IP's sony own to play online but this requirement is not for pc.

This just started this gen. So bringing up ps3 and ps4 is mute. Playstation wasnt supporting multiplayer ip games they owned on pc.

 

[Quantum253]

You know it was cooked when Nintendo started requiring a subscription for online play. Maybe the trend will revitalize the LAN party experience.

 

[reinking]

I think some of yall are missing the point. I want to know why console is required to have a subscription tier for IP's sony own to play online but this requirement is not for pc.

This just started this gen. So bringing up ps3 and ps4 is mute. Playstation wasnt supporting multiplayer ip games they owned on pc.

It did not start this gen. It started at the launch of the PS4 (for Sony). Console players have shown that they are willing to pay it and Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo are not going to leave money sitting on the table. It is really that simple.

 

[GHG]

This just started this gen. So bringing up ps3 and ps4 is mute. Playstation wasnt supporting multiplayer ip games they owned on pc.

No it didn't.

 

[HRK69]

Yeah, servers run on water and air

Try again

 

[Three]

I think some of yall are missing the point. I want to know why console is required to have a subscription tier for IP's sony own to play online but this requirement is not for pc.

This just started this gen. So bringing up ps3 and ps4 is mute. Playstation wasnt supporting multiplayer ip games they owned on pc.

The same reason xbox games require one even those IPs owned by MS. The set rules are all games require PS+ unless they are f2p. It's that simple. They can't be doing "rules for thee, not for me" on third party games. On console online games require a sub and this is not a new thing.

 

[kyoji]

Yeah, servers run on water and air

Try again

So why isn't a subscription required on pc again?
Im asking for parity.

 

[kyoji]

The same reason xbox games require one even those IPs owned by MS. The set rules are all games require PS+ unless they are f2p. It's that simple. They can't be doing "rules for thee, not for me" on third party games. On console online games require a sub and this is not a new thing.

Im not talking about third party games im talking about ips sony has ownership on. Like hell divers 2. And any owned ips going forward.

Are people really so dumb as to not gripe about games sony own requiring the subscription yet you can go across the pond and it not be?

Rules for thee… right? Cmon now

 

[Black_Stride]

What does that have to do with playstation requiring ps + for a game ip and ips they own going forward? Yet not needing one to play on pc?

They required you to pay for online play since the PS4......what difference does it make who owns the IP.
Its their mandate, if you dont like it go to a platform that doesnt charge you to play online.
Complaining now literally years too late is misguided.....we had this argument already, we made the big stink.......you still bought their consoles and still paid for the service, so.....what you want them to do now?
Listen to you while you keep giving them money......or Not Listen to you while you keep giving them money?







Who am I gonna pay to play online on PC?
Im already paying the internet bill, I already bought the game.....get fucked!





Youve got an overlord you are beholden to, if they say you need to pay, you pay, if you dont want to pay, dont play.

 

[tTHANOSs]

So why isn't a subscription required on pc again?
Im asking for parity.

Because those PC stores choose not to.

 

[iHaunter]

And this means it shouldnt be talked about till something is changed?

Because it's online? SP games don't require PS+. Not sure what the confusion is?

 

[HRK69]

So why isn't a subscription required on pc again?
Im asking for parity.

PC players don't pay for online because platforms like Steam never charged for it

It's not that hard

 

[Three]

Im not talking about third party games im talking about ips sony has ownership on. Like hell divers 2. And any owned ips going forward.

Are people really so dumb as to not gripe about games sony own requiring the subscription yet you can go across the pond and it not be?

Rules for thee… right? Cmon now

I mean what do you expect them to do? The ips MS and Sony own are under a sub on console and MS tried to charge PC users and it backfired spectacularly for them. The fact that they own the IP is irrelevant though because they can't set a specific rule just for their games. They can try what GFWL did on PC but it would fail, so what is your solution?

 

[kyoji]

They required you to pay for online play since the PS4......what difference does it make who owns the IP.
Its their mandate, if you dont like it go to a platform that doesnt charge you to play online.
Complaining now literally years too late is misguided.....we had this argument already, we made the big stink.......you still bought their consoles and still paid for the service, so.....what you want them to do now?
Listen to you while you keep giving them money......or Not Listen to you while you keep giving them money?







Who am I gonna pay to play online on PC?
Im already paying the internet bill, I already bought the game.....get fucked!





Youve got an overlord you are beholden to, if they say you need to pay, you pay, if you dont want to pay, dont play.

This is some of the dumbest logic ive seen ina while and any playstation fan supporting this deserve to eat shit from them going forward.

Its not a good look requiring your fan base to be subbed but then you turn around and dont require anything on pc. Thats all im getting at.

Ps3 and ps4 didnt have games on pc like they are trying to do now so asking for parity with something that did not exist yet as a strategy would be weird.

 

[Zannegan]

And this means it shouldnt be talked about till something is changed?

Because talk is cheap, and the only thing that will change their minds is a loss in profits. Since people on console have been happily paying away since the PS4, I don't see that happening.

Honestly, they're more likely to try to charge PC users than they are to drop the sub for PS users. They already would if they thought they could get away with it.

EDIT: Don't ask for parity. Refuse to pay, or switch camps and buy a PC to take advantage of the disparity. Sony's not going to change until it affects their bottom line, so you have to decide what you're willing to put up with. Most people on PS don't care enough to act.

Acknowledging those realities isn't dumb logic. Expecting Sony to care just because it isn't fair would be dumb.

 

[Danjin44]

You can do what I do and pay for none of them, then again I don't play online games.

 

[kyoji]

I mean what do you expect them to do? The ips MS and Sony own are under a sub on console and MS tried to charge PC users and it backfired spectacularly for them. The fact that they own the IP is irrelevant though because they can't set a specific rule just for their games. They can try what GFWL did on PC but it would fail, so what is your solution?

Tf u mean they cant? Its their policy and platform to begin with.

 

[Three]

Complaining now literally years too late is misguided.....we had this argument already, we made the big stink.......you still bought their consoles and still paid for the service, so.....what you want them to do now?
Listen to you while you keep giving them money......or Not Listen to you while you keep giving them money?

Who am I gonna pay to play online on PC?
Im already paying the internet bill, I already bought the game.....get fucked!

Youve got an overlord you are beholden to, if they say you need to pay, you pay, if you dont want to pay, dont play.

We? Oh how people change and pretend they're above it all when it all collapses:

I used them for Xbox Live Gold codes cuz they are the fastest place to get region discounted codes....super fast, super efficient.
Def trustworthy.

Tf u mean they cant? Its their policy and platform to begin with.

Yes I'm asking what you want. For them to make all games including third party free (not happening) or try to charge elsewhere and have their games fail like countless games on Games for windows live did?

 

[Buggy Loop]

This thread plus the PC exclusive one

Feels like peoples getting out a shelter where they missed everything that happened for years

 

[kyoji]

You can do what I do and pay for none of them, then again I don't play online games.

Im with you on this, im just wondering why so many ps fans are quiet on this. Live service is push is something that just started their shouldnt be a subscription involved if pc is not required to have one for these games… they make the policy (playstation) so yes they can require or not require what they want on their own platform (playstation)

 

[kyoji]

This thread plus the PC exclusive one

Feels like peoples getting out a shelter where they missed everything that happened for years

No ive been anti pc from the start for very controversial reasons just like this. I just dont post much here anymore because of the amount of morons including ps fans who only want to throw stones but dont realize its a glass house. This thread is proof. And dont get me wrong i feel like playstation has done a far better job than xbox across a number of metrics mainly the games but when it comes to stuff like this their is an opportunity to help them correct their policys before getting to far along, yet it seems most ps fans are complicit. Yall be safe.

 

[poppabk]

What does that have to do with playstation requiring ps + for a game ip and ips they own going forward? Yet not needing one to play on pc?

They subsidized or took a loss when selling you hardware - this is how they get that money back. PC gamers bought their own hardware form third parties.

 

[Danjin44]

Im with you on this, im just wondering why so many ps fans are quiet on this. Live service is push is something that just started their shouldnt be a subscription involved if pc is not required to have one for these games… they make the policy (playstation) so yes they can require or not require what they want on their own platform (playstation)

For me I'm not online player so when it paid subscription it made me even less interested.

But one thing does piss me off is even Souls game like Elden Ring you have PS+ to see massages and ghosts which that's nonsense, I get for co-op and PVP but this?

Also recently game like Fantasy Life i on Switch 2 you can get code for free gifts but if you dont have Nintendo Online you cant do that.....what? Why?

 

[bender]

For me I'm not online player so when it paid subscription it made me even less interested.

But one thing does piss me off is even Souls game like Elden Ring you have PS+ to see massages and ghosts which that's nonsense, I get for co-op and PVP but this?

Also recently game like Fantasy Life i on Switch 2 you can get code for free gifts but if you dont have Nintendo Online you cant do that.....what? Why?

Amazing Chest Ahead

 

[Humdinger]

Im with you on this, im just wondering why so many ps fans are quiet on this. Live service is push is something that just started their shouldnt be a subscription involved if pc is not required to have one for these games… they make the policy (playstation) so yes they can require or not require what they want on their own platform (playstation)

Paid subs for online to access a Live service game is just an extension of paid subs for online to access MP games - which is what they've been doing for 15 years, as many people have pointed out. They've never made an exception for their own IPs. You seem to be expecting people to be outraged now, 15 years after the fact, and you're getting angry at them ("they deserve to eat shit") if they don't share your LTTP outrage.

People were upset at the time, believe me. There was plenty of pushback, plenty of outrage. Sony went ahead with it anyway. People continued to fume for a while, but they eventually got over it. Or else they migrated to PC.

 

[Quantum253]

I think some of yall are missing the point. I want to know why console is required to have a subscription tier for IP's sony own to play online but this requirement is not for pc.

This just started this gen. So bringing up ps3 and ps4 is mute. Playstation wasnt supporting multiplayer ip games they owned on pc.

More than likely initially a revenue stream to offset cost of server and infrastructure maintenance. I'd imagine once Sony noticed the profitability with Live, it was a no brainer to charge for access. However, i liked Sony's initial PS+ model sold as value forward (store discounts/access to games/etc) while still allowing access online gameplay for the (silver or whatever the initial tier was). That initial test group (which im probably to blame getting PS+ day 1) made tons of cash that it kept growing. Here were are today and everything is subscription and Sony is making billions on subscription.
As for PC, no major company owns the infrastructure. I doubt each company would try and charge for network access, it would he suicide for their game.
The closest would be Steam charging a subscription to access online play through their markplace.
Msoft and Sony always sold that the value in their online sub/access was providing stable and reliable infrastructure access that limited cheaters/mods/etc from ruining the online experience.

 

[kyoji]

We? Oh how people change and pretend they're above it all when it all collapses:




Yes I'm asking what you want. For them to make all games including third party free (not happening) or try to charge elsewhere and have their games fail like countless games on Games for windows live did?

Their obligation should be to their core user base who bought into their ecosystem. Offering something with less requirements on another platform is bad optics regardless of the circumstances because they (PlayStation) are choosing to put the product there to begin with. So yes if they plan on pushing out more live service games, NOW that they playstation are willingly putting ips that they control on other platforms (pc) they need to include parity and drop the ps+ requirement. Its not difficult to understand and every ps fans should be asking for this. Myself included.

Playstation made the decision to put these games on pc. They didnt have to. But they gas light the fanbase into thinking they needed to.

 

[kyoji]

Paid subs for online to access a Live service game is just an extension of paid subs for online to access MP games - which is what they've been doing for 15 years, as many people have pointed out. They've never made an exception for their own IPs. You seem to be expecting people to be outraged now, 15 years after the fact, and you're getting angry at them ("they deserve to eat shit") if they don't share your LTTP outrage.

People were upset at the time, believe me. There was plenty of pushback, plenty of outrage. Sony went ahead with it anyway. People continued to fume for a while, but they eventually got over it. Or else they migrated to PC.

My question to you is what online ips did playstation own that they put on pc dating back 15 years?

 

[IDKFA]

So why isn't a subscription required on pc again?
Im asking for parity.

Because console players are used to paying for online gaming. With new online games, Sony can either entice new people to sub, or keep existing subscribers paying.

PC players have never had to pay to play online games (minus a few exceptions like WoW). Sony charging PC players to play HD2 would go down like a sack of shit. PC gamers just wouldn't bother.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

Blame Microsoft almost 20 years ago.

And blame all the sheeps accepting to pay while it was free on PS3.

You reap what you sow.

Note: Personally, I never ever paid any subscription on consoles and never will.

 

[Humdinger]

My question to you is what online ips did playstation own that they put on pc dating back 15 years?

You got me; I'm not on PC, so I'm not familiar with that history. I'm talking about how they charge for online play on console. My point was that, on console, they never made an exception for their own IP. Once Sony started charging for online, they didn't except their own games (e.g., Uncharted). They charged for them, too, just like they would any other. This has been a long-standing policy.

 

[Three]

Their obligation should be to their core user base who bought into their ecosystem. Offering something with less requirements on another platform is bad optics regardless of the circumstances because they (PlayStation) are choosing to put the product there to begin with. So yes if they plan on pushing out more live service games, NOW that they playstation are willing putting ips that they control on other platforms (pc) they need to include parity and drop the ps+ requirement. Its not difficult to understand and every ps fans should be asking for this. Myself included.

Playstation made the decision to put these games on pc. They didnt have to. But they gas light the fanbase into thinking they needed to.

I mean sure I'll ask for this but it would be like asking the wife if I can fuck her best friend. Let's be real, it's not happening, I'd just be pissing in the wind. There is no solution. What they did is tie it to "free" games every month on console to lower the blow, something that they can't really do on PC without expense paying third parties to forego PC sales. Ironically MS is well poised to start charging for their games to have online on PC because they're mostly hell bent on killing game sales outside of a sub anyway so it wouldn't hurt them as much. I'm realistic though and just telling you how it is and has been for 15 years, not that I don't want things to be free.

My question to you is what online ips did playstation own that they put on pc dating back 15 years?

They had SOE so a few (though that is no "PS" strictly speaking)

 

[kyoji]

Because console players are used to paying for online gaming. With new online games, Sony can either entice new people to sub, or keep existing subscribers paying.

PC players have never had to pay to play online games (minus a few exceptions like WoW). Sony charging PC players to play HD2 would go down like a sack of shit. PC gamers just wouldn't bother.

So then it should go down like a sack of shit. Which is exactly my point. Requiring something of your core base that isnt required elsewhere. If you dont have the balls to do it across the board then maybe they shouldnt be releasing on pc to begin with.


And heres the kicker in a alternate future where EVERYONE migrates to pc from console because of reasons like this, playstation will have the audacity to probably cry about substantially lower subscirption counts third party sales from their own psn store etc. see the irony?

 

[BennyBlanco]

Even more outrageous is paying for cloud saves. When I got a ps5 I couldn't access my bloodborne saves unless I paid for ps+ even though I bought it digitally on psn. They are just nickel and diming you at every opportunity. Makes me not want to use their consoles at all. No way I'm buying ps6.

 

[Miles708]

Why isn't this being discussed in broad and more frequent? Am i missing something or misinformed? Why is it that console user is required to have a ps+ subscription to play helldivers 2 (a sony ip) yet across the pond you can play on pc without needing a subscription? I'm assuming playstation thinks this is ok for whatever future live service projects make it to market going forward.

But my question is why are we letting them get away with this? Especially those of you who like live service and or actively playing HD2 on console.

Are we going to get shafted and let free online play turn into psn 2.0 again?? Its down right disrespectful to the core fanbase who CHOOSE to buy into console. If i am missing something let me know. Otherwise we should and need to be beating this drum loud and clear so as to nip this in the bud before more live service games release..

You might be wondering if every console player who pays to play online is a brainded dumbass.
The answer is yes.

Next question.

 

[Black_Stride]

We? Oh how people change and pretend they're above it all when it all collapses:

And youll know from my post history that you so graciously searched that i use XBLG codes to convert Gamepass Ultimate it is the cheapest way to get Gamepass Ultimate.
Im primarily a PC gamer.
Did I pay for XBLG when I was primarily a console gamer?
Yeah.....i aint anymore, but i still use Gamepass and as long as they keep bringing out bangers Ill keep paying.

This is some of the dumbest logic ive seen ina while and any playstation fan supporting this deserve to eat shit from them going forward.

Its not a good look requiring your fan base to be subbed but then you turn around and dont require anything on pc. Thats all im getting at.

Ps3 and ps4 didnt have games on pc like they are trying to do now so asking for parity with something that did not exist yet as a strategy would be weird.

If you wanted to play CoD online on PS4 you needed a sub....that same game on PC didnt need a sub.
If you wanted to play Gears 4 online on Xbox you needed a sub...that same game on PC didnt need a sub.
Whats changed that has you so miffed today?


What do you wamt Sony to charge people a subscription to play their games on PC?
Fat chance.....might as well not even bother porting it then.
Or are you saying because on PC online is free it should also be free to play on console?
Wouldnt that then extend to every game that has free online play on PC too?



The sub you are paying isnt specifically for Helldivers its for network as a whole.
Its not new which is why people are puzzled you are complaining about it now.

 

[reinking]

Their obligation should be to their core user base who bought into their ecosystem. Offering something with less requirements on another platform is bad optics regardless of the circumstances because they (PlayStation) are choosing to put the product there to begin with. So yes if they plan on pushing out more live service games, NOW that they playstation are willingly putting ips that they control on other platforms (pc) they need to include parity and drop the ps+ requirement. Its not difficult to understand and every ps fans should be asking for this. Myself included.

Playstation made the decision to put these games on pc. They didnt have to. But they gas light the fanbase into thinking they needed to.

Dude, it is not just PlayStation. It is all console makers. Many of us had this fight almost two decades ago and we lost. Personally, I also fought against Steam back in the day and very much against microtransactions. My track record standing up against corporations is not good.

Good luck to you.

My question to you is what online ips did playstation own that they put on pc dating back 15 years?

It is simple, console requires a sub (PS, XB, N) and PC does not. The masses spoke on this topic over a decade ago and those of us that opposed it lost. Why is PC free? Because PC gamers will not stand paying to play multiplayer games online (at least for now).

 

[ToneyJ]

You might be wondering if every console player who pays to play online is a brainded dumbass.
The answer is yes.

Next question.

If you like console gaming, you really have no choice but to pay for online gaming. Has nothing to do with being braindead.

Now if your argument is anyone who prefers console gaming to PC gaming, is braindead, go for it. I'm too braindead to argue against that. ; D