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[kevboard]

this is becoming more and more an obvious issue imo.

on Xbox it's even worse, as they are all cross platform and are all free online on PC, while you gotta pay to play the usually objectively worse version on Xbox...

Microsoft definitely have to change that SOON, Sony I think can still afford doing it because there's still more of a distance between their PC and Console offerings

 

[Miles708]

If you like console gaming, you really have no choice but to pay for online gaming. Has nothing to do with being braindead.

Now if your argument is anyone who prefers console gaming to PC gaming, is braindead. Go for it, I'm too braindead to argue against that. ; D

Paying for something that should be free and that used to be free on console and that is still free on PC, is the result of consumers being idiots.
That's it.

I am a console gamer by the way, so that's not master race talking. But everything wrong in the market is because videogame audience is stupid.

 

[N30RYU]

Looking it that way... I subbed on PS+ on PS3 for the free games... when the online was free...
Then they later added the online fee to the PS+... so I play online for free since I subbed for the games...

I know this isn't how it works... but this keeps letting me sleep at night since many years ago.

 

[Jesb]

There's subs for everything now. Even forums so you don't get harassed by ads.

 

[IDKFA]

So then it should go down like a sack of shit. Which is exactly my point. Requiring something of your core base that isnt required elsewhere. If you dont have the balls to do it across the board then maybe they shouldnt be releasing on pc to begin with.

I don't see many console players complaining. Many are happy to play for PS plus. That's why it won't change.

And heres the kicker in a alternate future where EVERYONE migrates to pc from console because of reasons like this,

Can't see that happening. People have been putting up with this since the PS4. It hasn't impacted PS5 sales and won't have an impact on PS6 sales.

 

[kyoji]

And youll know from my post history that you so graciously searched that i use XBLG codes to convert Gamepass Ultimate it is the cheapest way to get Gamepass Ultimate.
Im primarily a PC gamer.
Did I pay for XBLG when I was primarily a console gamer?
Yeah.....i aint anymore, but i still use Gamepass and as long as they keep bringing out bangers Ill keep paying.



If you wanted to play CoD online on PS4 you needed a sub....that same game on PC didnt need a sub.
If you wanted to play Gears 4 online on Xbox you needed a sub...that same game on PC didnt need a sub.
Whats changed that has you so miffed today?


What do you wamt Sony to charge people a subscription to play their games on PC?
Fat chance.....might as well not even bother porting it then.
Or are you saying because on PC online is free it should also be free to play on console?
Wouldnt that then extend to every game that has free online play on PC too?



The sub you are paying isnt specifically for Helldivers its for network as a whole.
Its not new which is why people are puzzled you are complaining about it now.

I choose to invest in playstation specially the console. They are choosing to put games else where with less mandate. Eventually this will catch up with them and theirs only a few situations that will play out. More ps users will just go to pc and not pay to play online at all - which will over time cause a seismic effect on the ps ecosystem. Or sony will try to enforce psn policys on pc like the helldivers login fiasco.

I would like to think it would be much easier and safer to drop the online requirement for mutliplayer games going forward on console as seeing most folks will stay subscribed for other reasons anyway. Right now its more or less an optics situation. And it looks very bad they are offering there own ip on another platform without the same requirements. No one is making them do this. They are doing it of their own accord. And they are inching closer and closer to where they will need to decide whats most important to them before its too late.

 

[Topher]

Really you should be asking this of consoles in general rather than PS specifically.

 

[Three]

Did I pay for XBLG when I was primarily a console gamer?
Yeah.....i aint anymore, but i still use Gamepass and as long as they keep bringing out bangers Ill keep paying.

unless you missed it that's the point. Why are you pretending that you were raising a stink though with that "we"? You were constantly praising XBLG until only recently when you abandoned ship to your PC player persona (you're a self proclaimed '50% PC 50% xbox user' and still paying for a sub that locks it though). Where is this so called stink you were raising? You weren't at all.

 

[ToneyJ]

Paying for something that should be free and that used to be free on console and that is still free on PC, is the result of consumers being idiots.
That's it.

I am a console gamer by the way, so that's not master race talking. But everything wrong in the market is because videogame audience is stupid.

I agree. The dumb majority wins and dictates the result. But again, if you're gaming on console and want to play online, you really have no choice but to join the idiots, even if you realize paying for online is bullshit.

 

[Topher]

There's subs for everything now. Even forums so you don't get harassed by ads.

Ultimately, nothing is free

 

[Aenima]

Tf u mean they cant? Its their policy and platform to begin with.

PC Sony games run on Steam, not on PSN. Sony cannot charge for online on PC because they are not running on Sony network.
This is something, players should have pushed against back when MS introduced this shit back in the X360 days, but the xbots gaslighted themselvs in paying pretending they were using a superior service that was worth paying for, and now its just free money for platform owners that run closed gardens.

The most eficient way to complain now, is voting with your wallet. So if you like online games, consider buying the PC version instead. But closed gardens also have some advantages for multiplayer games, that is the reduced amount of cheaters you will find on the console version vs the PC version.

 

[Unknown?]

Ultimately, nothing is free

Unless you can legally create currency. *cough*banks*cough*

 

[kyoji]

Also some of u guys need to stop with these whataboutism's. The "xbox does it too" - last I checked we are not xbox fandom. You can clearly see where the delusion and complicit state has gotten that fanbase. If playstation fanbase has turned into what that fan base has over the years - then trouble is brewing faster than one can imagine. And to the pc master racers that think you are needed you are not, we've seen PlayStations financials, you account for a spec of dust on their overall outlook. We also have a direct example of the unrepairable damage pc has done to xbox. But microsoft is ok with it now because their entire focus is moving that way anyway, but not before putting their legacy games on playstation - something that if pc was so profitable for them they would not need to do, only to disenfranchise their own core audience while doing it. Playstation cant afford to make these same mistakes, fixing simple things such as parity for live service needs to be and should be priority no matter the cost if u plan on dabbling on pc and still preserving your console roots.

 

[Humdinger]

So then it should go down like a sack of shit. Which is exactly my point. Requiring something of your core base that isnt required elsewhere.

Do you know the history of charging for online play on console? I have a feeling you don't - that you're a young guy who wasn't gaming 20 years ago.

Here's the history in a nutshell. 20 years ago, MS introduced Xbox Live, which set the standard for an online gaming on console. MS charged $50/year for their service, and people happily paid it, because this was new to a lot of console players, and it opened up a lot of possibilities. That set a precedent - a precedent for the console space that did not exist in the PC space. Precedents are important, especially when they are successful and lucrative, which XBL subs were.

Sony did not charge for online play at the time, but they saw how much money MS was making from subs, and they decided to charge, too. PS players were angry for a while, but they eventually got over it. A precedent had been established, and now seconded.

Things are just different in the console space. We're used to being charged for online play. No one bats an eye at it anymore. If people have big issues with that, they generally migrate to PC. I'm an SP-only gamer like Danjin, so it's not a problem for me.

 

[willothedog]

Free online multiplayer

 

[March Climber]

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Only free to play games on console don't need the subscription. MS popularized paying to play online and were the last to make free to play games not need the sub. They literally reversed that like 2-3 years ago. Helldivers 2 was never free to play and was always free MP on PC.

 

[lh032]

console = cheaper entry cost (like really cheap) + sony greed.

 

[kyoji]

Do you know the history of charging for online play on console? I have a feeling you don't - that you're a young guy who wasn't gaming 20 years ago.

Here's the history in a nutshell. 20 years ago, MS introduced Xbox Live, which set the standard for an online gaming on console. MS charged $50/year for their service, and people happily paid it, because this was new to a lot of console players, and it opened up a lot of possibilities. That set a precedent - a precedent for the console space that did not exist in the PC space. Precedents are important, especially when they are successful and lucrative, which XBL subs were.

Sony did not charge for online play at the time, but they saw how much money MS was making from subs, and they decided to charge, too. PS players were angry for a while, but they eventually got over it. A precedent had been established, and now seconded.

Things are just different in the console space. We're used to being charged for online play. No one bats an eye at it anymore. If people have big issues with that, they generally migrate to PC. I'm an SP-only gamer like Danjin, so it's not a problem for me.

And this is why we need to be talking about this stuff now to avoid psn 2.0. See the OP.

Stop the what aboutisms. I have been gaming maybe longer than u. Its irrelevant. First it starts with console subscribing to play live service, not a huge deal before but now they are actually making their own live service games and putting them elsewhere. We need parity. However that looks rather that means amendments to current psn policy or whatever, figure it out.

Idgaf what xbox started or not. Last i checked playstation run their own business model and should be held accountable. Just because one thing was allowed to slide in the past doesnt mean it needs to be that way now that things are different. If we keep letting stuff like this slide because or their own decision making then Next it will be pc single player games going from staggered releases of 2 years or more to 1 year, to simultaneously. And they will continue to gas light the corporate fandom folks who support any and everything they do into rationalizing why they needed to do so.

 

[Humdinger]

And this is why we need to be talking about this stuff now to avoid psn 2.0. See the OP.

Stop the what aboutisms and ive been gaming maybe longer than u. Its irrelevant. First it starts with console subscribing to play live service, not a huge deal before but now they are actually making their own live service games and putting them elsewhere. We need parity. However that looks rather that means amendments to current psn policy or whatever, figure it out.

It's not "whataboutisms." It's history and context. The console space is different than the PC space. Stomping your feet and insisting on "parity" accomplishes nothing.

If you've been gaming for as long as you say, I'm confused as to why you are suddenly so outraged. Like many others have pointed out, this is very old news.

Idgaf what xbox started or not. Last i checked playstation run their own business model and should be held accountable.

They were. 20 years ago. Sony said, "Yes, we know you are upset. Now pay." And people did.

Just because one thing was allowed to slide in the past doesnt mean it needs to be that way now that things are different. If we keep letting stuff like this slide because or their own decision making then Next it will be pc single player games going from staggered releases of 2 years or more to 1 year, to simultaneously. And they will continue to gas light the corporate folks into rationalizing why they needed to do so.

If you want to fume about it, go ahead. I don't think many people will be joining your protest, though.

 

[Topher]

And this is why we need to be talking about this stuff now to avoid psn 2.0. See the OP.

Stop the what aboutisms. I have been gaming maybe longer than u. Its irrelevant. First it starts with console subscribing to play live service, not a huge deal before but now they are actually making their own live service games and putting them elsewhere. We need parity. However that looks rather that means amendments to current psn policy or whatever, figure it out.

Idgaf what xbox started or not. Last i checked playstation run their own business model and should be held accountable. Just because one thing was allowed to slide in the past doesnt mean it needs to be that way now that things are different. If we keep letting stuff like this slide because or their own decision making then Next it will be pc single player games going from staggered releases of 2 years or more to 1 year, to simultaneously. And they will continue to gas light the corporate fandom folks who support any and everything they do into rationalizing why they needed to do so.

Eh...sounds like you are dismissing everything that doesn't put the focus square on Sony. I could actually get behind what you are saying, but making it about only one of the three platforms that factually charge for online gaming comes across as an agenda against that one rather than the policy of paid online itself.

 

[Goalus]

So why isn't a subscription required on pc again?
Im asking for parity.

Interesting question - what will happen first?
Online fees on PC or their removal on console?

 

[reinking]

...one more thing before I leave this thread behind. OP, please add this to your requests when you storm Sony HQ.

Dear Sony,

F U for holding games saves hostage behind a paywall.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

This just started this gen. So bringing up ps3 and ps4 is mute. Playstation wasnt supporting multiplayer ip games they owned on pc.

*moot

And this whole thread feels like a time capsule, the reason why there's no fee on PC is because it has been tried before and it failed spectacularly; pc gamers don't pay for online muliplayer, sony charging for hd2 mp access would've been an immediate death sentence.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

Why are we letting them get away with this?

You and the larger "we" don't have any means of accountability.

These OP's always seem to forget they have tons of choices when it comes to this topic. Don't like it, great don't engage with the company or buy their product.
OR
You are free to play Helldivers 2 without the need of a subscription. Buy a pc.

Also, there are plenty of folks who like the benefits provided by the PS+ sub so it comes down to what group Sony will cater to: Folks that will pay for premium features, or Folks that want everything for free.

 

[Mr Moose]

My question to you is what online ips did playstation own that they put on pc dating back 15 years?

No it didn't.

You had this answered already.

 

[Black_Stride]

unless you missed it that's the point. Why are you pretending that you were raising a stink though with that "we"? You were constantly praising XBLG until only recently when you abandoned ship to your PC player persona (you're a self proclaimed '50% PC 50% xbox' and still paying for a sub that locks it though). Where is this so called stink you were raising? You weren't at all.

We as in gamers.
I didnt even buy a PS4 at launch, so the PSN requirement for online play didnt affect me.
I was on OGX/X360 player, I was already in the paying for online camp.

Praising XBLG recently?....how recently is recently for you, cuz ive been a Gamepass subscriber for a minute....and as I said when I was playing more console I paid for XBLG, that not a gotcha or whatever, Ive owned that.
But as soon as conversions were live the only reason i even hunted XBLG codes was to convert.

PC player persona?
Bre.
I musta been holding onto this persona for a hell of a long time or it might just be me, cuz the Race your PC Thread is from 2011, and I was and have been pretty active in alot of PC threads........

Thread 'Race Your PC Thread of Benchmarking to find out who has the fastest PC on GAF!'

Sep 22, 2011

Instructions in Post #9

#1 P14841 - 3x SLI Triple EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 480 - 825 MHz/1536 MB/1113 voltage - Intel Core i7-980X Processor@ 3830 MHz - 12288 MB @ 667 MHz -EVGA X58 SLI Classified - beast786 - Water - Link - #1 Ranked TRISLI GTX480
#2 P13210 - 3x HD6950 2GB (modded to 6970 900/1405/1250mV) - 2600K @ 4.8GHz - 16GB Patriot Gamer2 DDR3 @ 1660 - ASRock P67 Extreme4 - Wag - Air - Link - #1 Ranked...

• ColonialRaptor

Damn that thread brings back memories..........PC building was so fun.

 

[reinking]

Damn that thread brings back memories..........PC building was so fun.

I don't know if it is the market or just me lately but I was looking to build a SFF PC to try out SteamOS. After looking at parts for a few days, I opted to get a Steam Deck/dock and accept the hardware limitations.

I want to give it a good test run before we see what Windows/XB has to offer. I want to decide for my next gaming PC "build."

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

It sucks that people have accepted it as the norm these days. I hate it that shit like some platinum trophies are locked behind PS+ sub, like Monster Hunter Wilds for instance.

 

[Topher]

It sucks that people have accepted it as the norm these days. I hate it that shit like some platinum trophies are locked behind PS+ sub, like Monster Hunter Wilds for instance.

You mean online trophies and achievements?

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

You mean online trophies and achievements?

Yes. The game can be played entirely offline, but there are two or three trophies/achievements that require online play. As many have said over the years, "online achievements/trophies suck!". It would be one thing if the game was always online, or even multiplayer focused, but it's pretty much a single player game.

 

[Three]

We as in gamers.

Yeah some gamers. You weren't one of those who complained though. You're only doing it now in hindsight while still paying.

I didnt even buy a PS4 at launch, so the PSN requirement for online play didnt affect me.
I was on OGX/X360 player, I was already in the paying for online camp.

Yeah I know, you're ignoring the fact that you gleefully bought an xbox one in place of PS4 though and mained it, did you not:

Was mainly Xbox while always having a decent(high) level PC.
During the Xbox One era I slowly started drifting towards being mostly PC.
Now I can barely call myself a console gamer at all........
PC all day every day, bad ports be damned!


We prostrate ourselves

You happily paid for XBLG during it until you started paying for the even more expensive tier Gamepass Ultimate midgen and never once raised a stink about the XBLG requirement throughout that time or the f2p block. You in fact defended it talking about the XBLG glory days, how you get discounts and the monthly games. You didn't even raise a stink when they tried doubling the price for XBLG. Your activity in that thread was mostly just defensive of MS.

Praising XBLG recently?....how recently is recently for you, cuz ive been a Gamepass subscriber for a minute....and as I said when I was playing more console I paid for XBLG, that not a gotcha or whatever, Ive owned that.
But as soon as conversions were live the only reason i even hunted XBLG codes was to convert.

To convert to GPU thereby paying for XBLG anyway for console access but never raised a stink about the online requirement on all the consoles you bought including your praise and purchase of Series S too.

PC player persona?
Bre.
I musta been holding onto this persona for a hell of a long time or it might just be me, cuz the Race your PC Thread is from 2011, and I was and have been pretty active in alot of PC threads........

Thread 'Race Your PC Thread of Benchmarking to find out who has the fastest PC on GAF!'

Sep 22, 2011

Instructions in Post #9

#1 P14841 - 3x SLI Triple EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 480 - 825 MHz/1536 MB/1113 voltage - Intel Core i7-980X Processor@ 3830 MHz - 12288 MB @ 667 MHz -EVGA X58 SLI Classified - beast786 - Water - Link - #1 Ranked TRISLI GTX480
#2 P13210 - 3x HD6950 2GB (modded to 6970 900/1405/1250mV) - 2600K @ 4.8GHz - 16GB Patriot Gamer2 DDR3 @ 1660 - ASRock P67 Extreme4 - Wag - Air - Link - #1 Ranked...

• ColonialRaptor

Damn that thread brings back memories..........PC building was so fun.

Yes, you've mostly shifted to this persona I would say near around XBS launch. Owning a PC prior doesn't change this. Ive been a PC gamer since before geforce 1 too and own a 5090 now, doesn't change the fact that I don a PS5 and happily game on it too as well as PC. I'm just referring to the fact that you're pretending you're above paying when you happily paid and in a way continue to pay for XBLG for access on your consoles. You never raised a stink prior, on the contrary you praised it, that's what's relevant, not whether you owned a PC before or not.

 

[Crayon]

You honest to ja sound like you just learned of this. Not sure if trolling.

 

[ArtHands]

It is like giving tithe. Think of it as a privilege to help build the console ecosystem.

Sony console fans are fine paying for subscription, not PC players. Why rock the boat?

 

[Sakura]

I'm sure if Sony could get away with charging for online on PC, they would.

 

[Fbh]

There's no "justification" needed, it's just the way it is and has been for over 10 years . Sony has tens of millions of users for whom paying the equivalent of like 2 cups of coffee a month for online multiplayer isn't a deal break, and they make a lot of money from them.

You can accept it or switch over to PC:
At which point you'll either:
- Actually switch over.
- Or you'll bring up the long list of excuses like "but it's so expensive, I don't want to built one myself and prebuilds are even more expensive, It's not as optimized for the couch/controller experience as a console, I don't like dealing with drivers and the occasional troubleshooting, it doesn't have this game and/or franchise that I like (yet), etc".... which is a perfectly valid stance to have, but it's basically admitting that the paid multiplayer isn't actually a deal breaker for you either.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

There's no "justification" needed, it's just the way it is and has been for over 10 years . Sony has tens of millions of users for whom paying the equivalent of like 2 cups of coffee a month for online multiplayer isn't a deal break, and they make a lot of money from them.

You can accept it or switch over to PC:
At which point you'll either:
- Actually switch over.
- Or you'll bring up the long list of excuses like "but it's so expensive, I don't want to built one myself and prebuilds are even more expensive, It's not as optimized for the couch/controller experience as a console, I don't like dealing with drivers and the occasional troubleshooting, it doesn't have this game and/or franchise that I like (yet), etc".... which is a perfectly valid stance to have, but it's basically admitting that the paid multiplayer isn't actually a deal breaker for you either.

Or... you can just ignore online subscriptions altogether and just play games that don't require a sub. Think of it from the perspective of a gamer who picked up a new sp game, but wants to enjoy the features advertised, like trophies or achievements. Now imagine that gamer not being able to get the platinum trophy because he doesn't pay for a sub regularly. Now imagine him or her having to pay another $10 to get that platinum trophy. It's like a game that was $70 actually becomes $80 just for them to enjoy what was advertised as a feature for an offline game.

As you said: "not a deal breaker" but scummy af just the same.

 

[semiconscious]

This just started this gen. So bringing up ps3 and ps4 is mute. Playstation wasnt supporting multiplayer ip games they owned on pc.

heads-up: it's 'moot'...

 

[MSduderino]

What year is it?

 

[DryvBy]

What does that have to do with playstation requiring ps + for a game ip and ips they own going forward? Yet not needing one to play on pc?

There's a few things to consider. MS originally tried to force PC gamers onto Xbox Live and it failed, they basically just stated in PC Gamer that on PC, it ain't happening so don't bother. That set a standard that on PC, don't waste your time. They probably will try it again when Windows does its live service OS eventually so if Linux doesn't take over, prophecy states it's going to come back when the brainrot folks who can't afford a house end up paying subs for Windows.

During this time too, gaming really sucked too for other reasons. EA was limiting installs to I believe 5 installs for Red Alert 3. Then you had to beg support for a code. Games were sitting behind activations using GFWL and stuff similar to it, breaking games when serves went down. Cheating is bad now on PC but was way, way worse then. Consoles were doing multiplayer codes to play online, costing you $10 if the code was used already. Nintendo was the hold out for charging online but now they're doing it too.

I suspect how digital goes, and with GOG being at the point where they ask for donations during checkout, we'll see digital stores collapse on PC and force more to Steam. Heaven forbid Gabe goes under because I don't believe for a minute the next crew is going to cut into their bottom line by letting us download TBs of games.

 

[lughnasadh123]

There's a moment for all the changes people hate to collectively come together to push back against, but most just roll over, say fuck it, and move on. And so the trend continues.

 

[Lunarorbit]

I choose to invest in playstation specially the console. They are choosing to put games else where with less mandate. Eventually this will catch up with them and theirs only a few situations that will play out. More ps users will just go to pc and not pay to play online at all - which will over time cause a seismic effect on the ps ecosystem. Or sony will try to enforce psn policys on pc like the helldivers login fiasco.

I would like to think it would be much easier and safer to drop the online requirement for mutliplayer games going forward on console as seeing most folks will stay subscribed for other reasons anyway. Right now its more or less an optics situation. And it looks very bad they are offering there own ip on another platform without the same requirements. No one is making them do this. They are doing it of their own accord. And they are inching closer and closer to where they will need to decide whats most important to them before its too late.

Arrowhead is a 2nd party partner so who knows what their agreement with Sony is/was.

PC gaming has been around forever; it works in conjuction with consoles not against it. Console gamers like me sacrifice mods and other goodies for stability and affordability. There will never be a stampede from console to pc.

You don't have to game online. I sympathize with trophy hunters who have trophies locked behind paywalls but that's it. Its 2025 and servers cost money. This isn't a new concept. Sometimes we get a half decent game on essential tier and I get access to all the sales. Its worth it to me for$10 a month.

 

[Fbh]

Or... you can just ignore online subscriptions altogether and just play games that don't require a sub. Think of it from the perspective of a gamer who picked up a new sp game, but wants to enjoy the features advertised, like trophies or achievements. Now imagine that gamer not being able to get the platinum trophy because he doesn't pay for a sub regularly. Now imagine him or her having to pay another $10 to get that platinum trophy. It's like a game that was $70 actually becomes $80 just for them to enjoy what was advertised as a feature for an offline game.

As you said: "not a deal breaker" but scummy af just the same.

I'd count people who don't play online as "those for whom Ps+ isn't a deal breaker " (assuming they also don't care about cloud saves).

To be clear, I'm not necessarily defending Sony. I'm basically just saying they do these things because there's enough people willing to pay, simple as that.

Talking about this with most people that complain like OP usually goes the same way:
-"This sucks and is unacceptable. How can they get away with this?"
-"Ok, switch to PC then"
-"I don't want to because this and that"
-"Which means even with all the issues you talked about the console is still giving you enough value to not want to drop it. That's how they "get away with it" "