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[Crayon]

Wireless has also been a thing for years. Sony dropped the ball here big time by not allowing it as an option.

It's been a thing since Google cardboard you're right.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Wireless has also been a thing for years. Sony dropped the ball here big time by not allowing it as an option.

IQ is shite in comparison to wired.

 

[Killer8]

Ok, I’ll take the bait. PSVR1 was launched in 2016 at 399 USD for a 2013 console with all the CPU limitations we know. The Valve Index was released in 2019 at 999 without HDR for top of the line hardware.

What was Sony supposed to launch in 2016 at 399 for the PS4 what would be high-tech and affordable?

Many forget that the screen in the PSVR1 punched well above its weight thanks to using OLED. Deep black levels and less obvious screen door effect compared to any headset at the time. It was also by far the most comfortable to wear for extended periods of time. I'm pleased Sony are keeping the same general design for PSVR2.

 

[DeepEnigma]

still. quest 2 wirelessly tops out at less than a 1GB/s.

PSVR2 has the entire 10GB/s to use through the wire

And double that in DP Alt Mode which they'll probably use for the headset.

 

[yurinka]

Playstation VR 2 goes against the trend of recent years and uses a cable.

What trend? I thought Quest 2 was the only one wireless and that all the other high end VR headsets did use wired instead.

Once in the future wireless gets able to have the same top tier, high end visual quality, resolution, framerate, latency and stability and for a reasonable pricing and weight then I think it will be time for Sony to go wireless, but as of now I think they did the right decision, because specially regarding pricing the PSVR2 headset as it is already is too fucking expensive for most potential customers.

PSVR3 going wireless? Probably, let's wait and see. But as of now, if Sony wanted to go high end they needed a cable.

Ok, I’ll take the bait. PSVR1 was launched in 2016 at 399 USD for a 2013 console with all the CPU limitations we know. The Valve Index was released in 2019 at 999 without HDR for top of the line hardware.

What was Sony supposed to launch in 2016 at 399 for the PS4 what would be high-tech and affordable?

Remember that at launch PSVR1 didn't include the required PS camera and Move controllers for that price. Adding inflation, the complete PSVR1+required accesories kit was more expensive at launch than PSVR2 will be at launch.

1000% agree! Some people don't understand Playstation's position in gaming. They aren't here to make some "neat" little toy. They are trying their best to deliver high quality games within a certain budget level. They are viewing VR like they view making a new Playstation console. It's not for play-play.

PlayStation position in gaming and VR is that they are the console gaming market leaders and that release VR as an accessory for that console. An extra for their console, and additional unique selling point that enlarges their catalog with fresh and unique stuff.

They view VR as a small niche that is a new market still on its infancy, but they position themselves as high end VR pioneers to be in a good position in case this market ends going mainstream somewhere in the (long term, not soon at all) future.

For them PS consoles are the main and most important and profitable part of their gaming business, and VR is only a small, secondary part of their gaming business. It's only an accesory: a new hardware, but it isn't like to make a new console for them in terms of importance or expectations. For consoles they aim for selling over 100M units, with PSVR1 instead they were happy selling over 5M units.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Having a cable isn’t a big deal or a major hurdle

Wireless is a nice to have feature but not necessary. It will be integrated when the time is right and the compromises/price aren’t as significant

People want high end VR, and to get that a simple cable isn’t a factor worth caring too much about

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Limited battery life, increased cost, and reduced performance.

They would have looked at the tradeoffs, determined that it being wireless (at a higher price) would negative the mass market adoption due to it being wireless.

Quest 2 lasts 3 hour and is inferior to the PSVR2, with the VR2 being oled hdr rather than lcd, higher resolution, larger field of view.

So for a comparable price, you get a significantly better headset AND a PS5 is cheaper than any equivalent PC especially the digital version.

I don't think they "dropped the ball"

Quest 2 doesn't need to be tethered to a PC or a console like the PSVR2, but linked either via cable or AirLink (wireless) to a PC. The value proposition there makes it a far better value to me than the PSVR2 which must be tethered to a console
no matter what, is not compatible with any other devices. I don't want to play VR in my living room, I don't want to move my PS5 around so I can play VR in the ideal location. There are things outside of rattling off a spec sheet that actually matter to people especially those of us that play a lot of VR titles. I gladly accept lower fidelity screens if it means I am afforded a greater level of freedom to consume my content the way I want to, and luckily with Quest 3 on the horizon and other headsets like it, that isn't going to be a required trade off for long.

 

[mckmas8808]

They also want to reach the largest audience possible and obviously wireless helps significantly in that regard. The smaller the headset, the more convenient the headset, the cheaper the headset, all go towards mass market consumption.

High quality only matters to a degree compared to those other factors. It's why the Wii and the Switch have been so successful despite not having much power behind them.

PSVR's future is wireless, cheap, and multiplatform.

Makes no sense for sony to spend 100 million on a VR game with ONLY the consumer base of the PS5 to sell to, when that same game if available on PC would sell more, especially if/when they make PSVR2 compatible with PC. Assuming Sony is selling PSVR2 at a profit, it makes full sense to support PC as well. Every unit they sell, the more VR market share they are taking and creating.

The bolded isn't correct. They want to reach the largest "Playstation" audience possible. There's a difference. Plus why are you acting as if the PS4 and PS5 aren't successful?

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Having a cable isn’t a big deal or a major hurdle

Wireless is a nice to have feature but not necessary. It will be integrated when the time is right and the compromises/price aren’t as significant

People want high end VR, and to get that a simple cable isn’t a factor worth caring too much about

Except that it kind of is for a lot of people. If the only games you play are rudimentary titles where you can stand in one spot, then no big deal, or racing games, etc. Wire then is not a big deal, but if you playing anything like Population One or really any FPS, unless you don't want to be tangled up then you have to limit how you play and that's pretty fucking lame. Not to mention a wire means you are limited to the location of the PS5, which again is another deal breaker for a lot of people.

 

[mckmas8808]

PlayStation position in gaming and VR is that they are the console gaming market leaders and that release VR as an accessory for that console. An extra for their console, and additional unique selling point that enlarges their catalog with fresh and unique stuff.

They view VR as a small niche that is a new market still on its infancy, but they position themselves as high end VR pioneers to be in a good position in case this market ends going mainstream somewhere in the (long term, not soon at all) future.

For them PS consoles are the main and most important and profitable part of their gaming business, and VR is only a small, secondary part of their gaming business. It's only an accesory: a new hardware, but it isn't like to make a new console for them in terms of importance or expectations. For consoles they aim for selling over 100M units, with PSVR1 instead they were happy selling over 5M units.

This person gets it! Every word typed in this post is 100% spot on.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I wouldn't bank on there being a wireless revision for the PSVR2, unless they came out with an add-on.

What I think is more likely is that the PSVR3 will have a wireless [option].

If I'm Sony... I eventually bring PSVR2 to PC and with a PC launcher marketed especially as a competitor to Steam VR. Pushing their VR investment in games on both PS5 and PC.

PSVR3 being a more mass-marketed device with a wireless option.

That's how you build an ecosystem.

I like that idea, but I don't see it happening unless that launcher is also a storefront, especially for VR. PSVR is ultimately an add-on peripheral device, its sales are always going to be a fractional subset of the main console's, so they need as much pure revenue off software sales as possible.

If it's just a launcher with no storefront, and all the software is via Steam, that's Sony giving up 30% of a revenue cut and possibly suppressing 3P sales through PS store or for PS through retail in favor for people picking those up on Steam. So a storefront has to be a part of the package and by that point would they just want to extend that for PlayStation in general, not just VR?

Still at least a good many years away from seeing any of this actually happen but it's interesting to think about.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Except that it kind of is for a lot of people. If the only games you play are rudimentary titles where you can stand in one spot, then no big deal, or racing games, etc. Wire then is not a big deal, but if you playing anything like Population One or really any FPS, unless you don't want to be tangled up then you have to limit how you play and that's pretty fucking lame. Not to mention a wire means you are limited to the location of the PS5, which again is another deal breaker for a lot of people.

most people playing VR won’t be able to move around their house while playing. It’s not safe

Mainstream VR games will be designed to be largely stationary

 

[bentanchorbolt]

most people playing VR won’t be able to move around their house while playing. It’s not safe

Mainstream VR games will be designed to be largely stationary

Find an open location in your home, put the headset on, draw a virtual 6ft x 6ft square, that's your safe area. What is unsafe about that?

If mainstream VR experiences are designed to be stationary then count me out. What's the point?

 

[Crayon]

Except that it kind of is for a lot of people. If the only games you play are rudimentary titles where you can stand in one spot, then no big deal, or racing games, etc. Wire then is not a big deal, but if you playing anything like Population One or really any FPS, unless you don't want to be tangled up then you have to limit how you play and that's pretty fucking lame. Not to mention a wire means you are limited to the location of the PS5, which again is another deal breaker for a lot of people.

That's true, but on the other hand I think you've got a lot of people who have to play in a limited space anyway. If you got a wireless headset that is working well enough jumping over your home Wi-Fi, you can take it to the space with the biggest amount of room, which is a big bonus. The biggest spot I have is going to be the front room though and I think that's pretty typical. Once I push the coffee table out of the way, I still don't have that much space. Enough to take a step forward or back, or two to the left or right. In fact, more often than not I just play sitting on the couch because I Don't feel like standing. I only have a few games where you really need to stand up.

I think we all agree that wireless with no compromises would be better. But the reality is, it is a compromise. A major one considering you're going to need to wear a battery on your head and downgrade the quality and latency. Additionally, the added cost and having to depend on the quality of your Wi-Fi setup.

So I would hope we could also all agree that it's more important to some than to others. For some it's a deal breaker, totally understandable. For some the wire is an acceptable compromise, which should also be easily understandable.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

That's true, but on the other hand I think you've got a lot of people who have to play in a limited space anyway. If you got a wireless headset that is working well enough jumping over your home Wi-Fi, you can take it to the space with the biggest amount of room, which is a big bonus. The biggest spot I have is going to be the front room though and I think that's pretty typical. Once I push the coffee table out of the way, I still don't have that much space. Enough to take a step forward or back, or two to the left or right. In fact, more often than not I just play sitting on the couch because I Don't feel like standing. I only have a few games where you really need to stand up.

I think we all agree that wireless with no compromises would be better. But the reality is, it is a compromise. A major one considering you're going to need to wear a battery on your head and downgrade the quality and latency. Additionally, the added cost and having to depend on the quality of your Wi-Fi setup.

So I would hope we could also all agree that it's more important to some than to others. For some it's a deal breaker, totally understandable. For some the wire is an acceptable compromise, which should also be easily understandable.

I just don't like the idea of playing VR in your living room next to a couch and tv and everything else, and a wire that is both a tripping hazard for you and anyone moving between you and the console, which is going to happen despite many peoples best efforts. I tend to lose myself a lot when I play VR. Not having to worry about a cable or being in a room that is filled with obstacles is a big part of why I can lose myself.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Find an open location in your home, put the headset on, draw a virtual 6ft x 6ft square, that's your safe area. What is unsafe about that?

If mainstream VR experiences are designed to be stationary then count me out. What's the point?

The immersion and controller movement in VR is the biggest appeal; not being able to walk around. It just doesn’t make sense for most consumers

Never heard of games like half life Alyx or TWD not being amazing simply because they lacked spatial movement

 

[damidu]

a single cable to console is fine, its mostly a sitting experience anyway.

problem with the psvr1 was that
add-on box and all the cable spaghetti it caused

 

[bentanchorbolt]

The immersion and controller movement in VR is the biggest appeal; not being able to walk around. It just doesn’t make sense for most consumers

Never heard of games like half life Alyx or TWD not being amazing simply because they lacked spatial movement

Perhaps I am cynical but I suspect this narrative comes from the fact that Sony is using a wire and if they chose to go wireless, the opinions around here would change in accordance.

Regardless, I have spent far more than enough time in VR to know that part of the immersion afforded to the user is the ability to freely move around your "safe area" or "guardian" without a wire to get tangled in, and with gameplay mechanics that reward using your space available to the maximum. There are experiences where those things won't matter due to design choices. Games like Super Hot and Pistol Whip, for example, or really any racing game. Any game that wants to take full advantage of VR and what it brings to the table, the wire will be a major detractor and its really going to be unfortunate if devs design their games around the concept of requiring their user to exert the least amount of effort possible. Who the fuck wants to stand in the same spot while playing an FPS?

Have you even played VR? Play Population One on the Quest 2 for a couple hours and if you still think a wire and games designed around standing in one spot is future then yikes.

There is a reason the Quest 2 has sold over 15 million units despite being attached to Meta which turns people off. People for sure give a fuck about that wire and love the freedom.

 

[Crayon]

a single cable to console is fine, its mostly a sitting experience anyway.

problem with the psvr1 was that
add-on box and all the cable spaghetti it caused

I was just jam that crap behind TV lol. It's a jungle back there. Luckily it's never taken any attention since hooking it up.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Device comfort is underrated. Having a lighter and more comfortable device (PSVR can be easily used by people with glasses, I recently tried the latest Vive and I had to take them off :/…) is important for longer gaming sessions. Having a cable is not as bad as before but sure it adds one tether to the non VR world we would like to avoid… but right now I prefer the compromises Sony made for comfort and performance / quality.

Balance is more important than weight. Oculus Quest’s battery pack strap adds weight, but makes the headset much more comfortable by removing frontal downforce.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I like that idea, but I don't see it happening unless that launcher is also a storefront, especially for VR. PSVR is ultimately an add-on peripheral device, its sales are always going to be a fractional subset of the main console's, so they need as much pure revenue off software sales as possible.

If it's just a launcher with no storefront, and all the software is via Steam, that's Sony giving up 30% of a revenue cut and possibly suppressing 3P sales through PS store or for PS through retail in favor for people picking those up on Steam. So a storefront has to be a part of the package and by that point would they just want to extend that for PlayStation in general, not just VR?

Still at least a good many years away from seeing any of this actually happen but it's interesting to think about.

Sorry I thought I implied the storefront aspect.

And yes, they're going to extend that to non-VR games.

Now this is just my hunch, but I don't think Sony's interest in PC extends to sharing 30% of their PC revenue with Valve for the rest of time. They want revenue from games that aren't theirs, which has always been their model.

I'm not sure what the timeline is, but I would say given what we saw from people mining Spider-Man, it might not be that far away. The longer they wait, the more revenue and market share they're losing.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The bolded isn't correct. They want to reach the largest "Playstation" audience possible. There's a difference. Plus why are you acting as if the PS4 and PS5 aren't successful?

Why are they releasing PC games? Is that to reach the "PlayStation" audience?

One PSVR2 doesn't work with PS4 at all. Two, who said PS5 wasn't successful, but obviously it has a more limited consumer base, which again is why they're releasing their games on PC.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Quest 2 doesn't need to be tethered to a PC or a console like the PSVR2, but linked either via cable or AirLink (wireless) to a PC. The value proposition there makes it a far better value to me than the PSVR2 which must be tethered to a console
no matter what, is not compatible with any other devices. I don't want to play VR in my living room, I don't want to move my PS5 around so I can play VR in the ideal location. There are things outside of rattling off a spec sheet that actually matter to people especially those of us that play a lot of VR titles. I gladly accept lower fidelity screens if it means I am afforded a greater level of freedom to consume my content the way I want to, and luckily with Quest 3 on the horizon and other headsets like it, that isn't going to be a required trade off for long.

....

I swear people stopped reading...

 

[bentanchorbolt]

....

I swear people stopped reading...

Why bother replying if you aren't going to bother contributing?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Why bother replying if you aren't going to bother contributing?

Literally what I thought when I read your post.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Significantly less cords is a good thing, I invite SONY to go wireless as its accepted on other VR devices.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I don’t understand why they don’t let your stream from your ps5 to the headset like quest 2 and a PC.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

What is 60GHz mmWave?

simplifinetworks.com

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Literally what I thought when I read your post.

You seem to have a problem with something I said, unsure what exactly but I guess that is what it is. Have a good day.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I don’t understand why they don’t let your stream from your ps5 to the headset like quest 2 and a PC.

They have their reasons. Probably something stupid like the price of the end product, technical limitations, making it idiot-proof ot just laziness.

 

[BennyBlanco]

They have their reasons. Probably something stupid like the price of the end product, technical limitations, making it idiot-proof ot just laziness.

Well I have my reasons for not buying a psvr2 i guess. I wish them the best tho the specs are very impressive.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Well I have my reasons for not buying a psvr2 i guess. I wish them the best tho the specs are very impressive.

Ok. Thanks.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Ok. Thanks.

Alright man always good chatting with you

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Alright man always good chatting with you

Yes. Have a nice day.

 

[drezz]

you are limited to the location of the PS5, which again is another deal breaker for a lot of people.

Pick it up and carry into where ever... as long as it has an outlet somewhere close by(2m and another 4.5m from PS5 to PSVR2) you can get around... hell get a extention cord if you really need too.

 

[aclar00]

Yup and with all the tech in there a very rapid draining battery.

Ah well, guess 2 hours is enough for a VR session anyways

Good thing with it though would (depending on how you see it) would be the ability use a cable as well. Basically, i invision it like the controller. Can be wireless but can be wired.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Pick it up and carry into where ever... as long as it has an outlet somewhere close by(2m and another 4.5m from PS5 to PSVR2) you can get around... hell get a extention cord if you really need too.

Honestly that's kind of a pain the ass. I don't want to move my PS5 to an entirely other room just to play VR.

I'll get PSVR2 at some point, but tbh I'm really waiting on the Quest 3 and other more powerful all-in-one units that will come out in the future.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Perhaps I am cynical but I suspect this narrative comes from the fact that Sony is using a wire and if they chose to go wireless, the opinions around here would change in accordance.

Regardless, I have spent far more than enough time in VR to know that part of the immersion afforded to the user is the ability to freely move around your "safe area" or "guardian" without a wire to get tangled in, and with gameplay mechanics that reward using your space available to the maximum. There are experiences where those things won't matter due to design choices. Games like Super Hot and Pistol Whip, for example, or really any racing game. Any game that wants to take full advantage of VR and what it brings to the table, the wire will be a major detractor and its really going to be unfortunate if devs design their games around the concept of requiring their user to exert the least amount of effort possible. Who the fuck wants to stand in the same spot while playing an FPS?

Have you even played VR? Play Population One on the Quest 2 for a couple hours and if you still think a wire and games designed around standing in one spot is future then yikes.

There is a reason the Quest 2 has sold over 15 million units despite being attached to Meta which turns people off. People for sure give a fuck about that wire and love the freedom.

Those games are junk compared to the ones I mentioned

The reason quest 2 sold 15M is because it’s cheap and you don’t need a pc, not because the wire is some huge hurdle

 

[drezz]

I'm really waiting on the Quest 3

What I've seen/heard(Rumors) of the Quest 3 is just good news, I'd get it if I didn't already have a Quest 2(With Airlink over 6E to my beefy pc) cause it's not that big of a jump compared too Quest 2(Cause Im running my games from my PC anyway)... Unless I'd sell my Q2 too pay up to a Q3.
STILL, its a bit long until it arrives(Rumored Mid October- Early November).
I'm day 1 on PSVR2, and If we get it running as a Spoofed Quest 2 on PC I'd be using it over my Quest 2 regardless if it is wired;mostly for the screen and for the hell of it, I've got a setup that makes the cable less intrusive... I do agree with you cable suck and is a pain in the ass when it disturbs you when you are gunning it out against others online.

 

[phil_t98]

That will be the time to pick one up.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Those games are junk compared to the ones I mentioned

The reason quest 2 sold 15M is because it’s cheap and you don’t need a pc, not because the wire is some huge hurdle

Whatever dude, those games are fucking rad. You should probably play VR before giving your opinion on the format.

 

[drezz]

Super Hot and Pistol Whip

Those games are junk compared to the ones I mentioned

Hey hey hey!
Thoose are Classic VR games!

Granted HL:Alyx and Astrobot:RM are 10/10 unmatched games don't mean our classic vr games deserve such shade(Imo).

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Whatever dude, those games are fucking rad. You should probably play VR before giving your opinion on the format.

Different tastes

But the reality is that big games won’t be designed from the ground up for free roaming.

And there’s nothing wrong about a largely stationary experience

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

VR people!! This is not time to fight but unite.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

What I've seen/heard(Rumors) of the Quest 3 is just good news, I'd get it if I didn't already have a Quest 2(With Airlink over 6E to my beefy pc) cause it's not that big of a jump compared too Quest 2(Cause Im running my games from my PC anyway)... Unless I'd sell my Q2 too pay up to a Q3.
STILL, its a bit long until it arrives(Rumored Mid October- Early November).
I'm day 1 on PSVR2, and If we get it running as a Spoofed Quest 2 on PC I'd be using it over my Quest 2 regardless if it is wired;mostly for the screen and for the hell of it, I've got a setup that makes the cable less intrusive... I do agree with you cable suck and is a pain in the ass when it disturbs you when you are gunning it out against others online.

I mostly want so see the Quest 3 get a bit lighter and better balanced, and give me some some nice OLED HDR screens with the same effective resolution as the Quest 2 but with a wider FOV, and eye tracking. And if its within the budget, the pancake lenses from the Quest Pro.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Different tastes

But the reality is that big games won’t be designed from the ground up for free roaming.

And there’s nothing wrong about a largely stationary experience

I'm not talking about roaming. I'm talking about games that have mechanics within the gameplay loop that reward full use of your given safe area. So you can duck, turn around, side step, move around the safe area, eta. Using the right stick in a VR game to move the camera is bananas, that's what your body is for. Having a wire is a hazard for games built like that. Population One on Quest 2, with a wire, would be a nightmare.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Balance is more important than weight. Oculus Quest’s battery pack strap adds weight, but makes the headset much more comfortable by removing frontal downforce.

True, balance is super important. I found PSVR1 extremely balanced and expect PSVR2 to also be one of the if not the most comfortable headset.

 

[Buggy Loop]

I didn't follow much of this closely but, will PSVR2 allow prescription VR lenses?

 

[Tygeezy]

Except that it kind of is for a lot of people. If the only games you play are rudimentary titles where you can stand in one spot, then no big deal, or racing games, etc. Wire then is not a big deal, but if you playing anything like Population One or really any FPS, unless you don't want to be tangled up then you have to limit how you play and that's pretty fucking lame. Not to mention a wire means you are limited to the location of the PS5, which again is another deal breaker for a lot of people.

You move and look with the sticks in pop 1. You certainly aren't running around a large map manually. The big hurdle nobody talks about with natural locomotion in VR is you can't deal with elevation changes. Try walking up non existent stairs or a hill in vr. You walk right through the hill or the stairs.

 

[Evolved1]

It's never gonna be that
By all means if you must have go ahead and spend £525.
Hell spend another £525 when the wireless one comes out, that is your choice and I ain't knocking that.
But me knowing they are making a wireless one before purchasing the current one...I rather wait.

You sound like a real VR enthusiast.