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[BennyBlanco]

Different tastes

But the reality is that big games won’t be designed from the ground up for free roaming.

And there’s nothing wrong about a largely stationary experience

So in other words you never played SuperHot VR. It’s one of the all time best VR games.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I'm not talking about roaming. I'm talking about games that have mechanics within the gameplay loop that reward full use of your given safe area. So you can duck, turn around, side step, move around the safe area, eta. Using the right stick in a VR game to move the camera is bananas, that's what your body is for. Having a wire is a hazard for games built like that. Population One on Quest 2, with a wire, would be a nightmare.

Eh, would rather use a stick

 

[bentanchorbolt]

You move and look with the sticks in pop 1. You certainly aren't running around a large map manually. The big hurdle nobody talks about with natural locomotion in VR is you can't deal with elevation changes. Try walking up non existent stairs or a hill in vr. You walk right through the hill or the stairs.

You can move your body and head instead of using the right stick. Which is how I play. And I lean out of cover with my body, etc. if y’all just use sticks to play Jesus you’re selling yourself short.

 

[Tygeezy]

You can move your body and head instead of using the right stick. Which is how I play. And I lean out of cover with my body, etc. if y’all just use sticks to play Jesus you’re selling yourself short.

You can do all of that with a wire.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

You can do all of that with a wire.

I’m done arguing about this stuff since I’ve spent enough time in VR to know what I like and don’t like. Wire makes it less fun and cumbersome.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I’m done arguing about this stuff since I’ve spent enough time in VR to know what I like and don’t like. Wire makes it less fun and cumbersome.

Yep. I don't think you are the market

 

[ManaByte]

You can do all of that with a wire.

I have a PSVR2 Horizon bundle pre-ordered, but you're wrong. You can't do true room scale VR that lots of games on the Quest 2 are designed around with a tether coming off your headset.

 

[Buggy Loop]

So in other words you never played SuperHot VR. It’s one of the all time best VR games.

Don't worry. Day that Sony goes wireless, it'll be the 2nd coming of Christ. Then it will be the best move, intelligent Cerny, omg genius.

 

[KuraiShidosha]

the thing is tho, even wired this will happen...

again, I was talking END TO END latency, not additional latency.

many games these days have beyond 60ms of latency simply due to their engine.
hell, God of War Ragnarök at 60fps has about 90ms of engine latency, TV latency not included.

so I wonder if games need to be super lightweight in the first place to not have that blurriness issue you're fearing here.
and if they are so lightweight that they have low latency, then do they need foveated rendering at all at that point?

like, is there a test somewhere that tested how much end to end latency Alyx has on a good PC running a wired PC headset like the Index or any of the Rift variants?

I'm using Alyx here as it's one of the more demanding VR titles.

On Index at 80hz total end to end latency is about 23ms. At 144hz it's 16ms. 50+ ms is not acceptable for VR.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Wireless or not doesnt matter, what maters is if sony is interested to bring true full aaa games to vr and will it do it.

 

[Crayon]

So in other words you never played SuperHot VR. It’s one of the all time best VR games.

You stand in one place for super hot VR. I love that game and I play it with a wired headset fine.

 

[dr_octagon]

They already made it with PS9

 

[dano1]

And that's another reason not to buy PSVR2.

Because of a thin wire. Yeah ok
You don’t run around the house when you play vr

 

[ManaByte]

You don’t run around the house when you play vr

No, but you can walk around a 6x6 area. Wireless VR is basically holodeck.

 

[BennyBlanco]

You stand in one place for super hot VR. I love that game and I play it with a wired headset fine.

Yea I know but that poster described it as “junk”

 

[bentanchorbolt]

No, but you can walk around a 6x6 area. Wireless VR is basically holodeck.

They are supposed to increase that size at some point as well. Can’t wait.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

What is 60GHz mmWave?

simplifinetworks.com

https://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/qualcomm-meta-intel-want-arvr-apps-coexist-radar

They're already looking at 60 ghz for VR. If they can get regulatory approval, it's probably the answer for wireless, low latency, high fidelity headsets, where they could essentially have the VR headset act almost entirely for visuals/receiving and the major components exist largely externally, which can also make the external components much more affordable since they don't need to fit in a tiny frame that they're building to sit on your face.

 

[dano1]

Not only

No, but you can walk around a 6x6 area. Wireless VR is basically holodeck.

Ive just never had an issue with the wire on my psvr1 but you probably would notice the extra weight and heat having a battery and processor stuck in the headset. But a wireless dongle would be nice. But the tech isn’t there yet

 

[Crayon]

Yea I know but that poster described it as “junk”

Oh, that. I lost the thread.

Superhot VR is badass, people! The disrespect will not stand!

 

[ManaByte]

But the tech isn’t there yet

Yes it is.

 

[dano1]

Yes it is.

4K and PlayStation 5 graphics ?
Sony says it’s not. But I guess I’ll believe you..

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Don't worry. Day that Sony goes wireless, it'll be the 2nd coming of Christ. Then it will be the best move, intelligent Cerny, omg genius.

No one is suggesting the wireless isn't an important factor. They're only saying that it isn't debilitating for them, which is exactly why Sony hasn't gone wireless in this instance. They know their market and I'm sure they've even done market studies on what percentage of people with the Quest 2 use it in wireless mode.

When sony does implement wireless, it will be a big deal, because they'll ultimately be marrying a high-quality product with high-quality games, at a somewhat reasonable price, marketed towards mass consumption.

They're the only company in the industry that has both the interest and capacity to do that to a truly large scale. Valve and Oculus can't. Apple can't.

Sony is a manufacturer
Sony is a game publisher
Sony has a reputation for high quantity and high-quality AAA games
Sony owns a storefront
Sony has their own console and their console is best in class in terms of sales

Please find me anyone else who can check these boxes AND has interest in VR.

Oculus is rapidly trying to buy VR experienced developers because they know they can't make big AAA games. Beat Saber isn't going to cut it going forward.

 

[TGO]

Because of a thin wire. Yeah ok
You don’t run around the house when you play vr

I'm fine with a wire, everyone quoting me is misunderstanding what I said.
I was day one with the original PSVR and I wish I'd waited for the better cable management integrated earphones and HDR passthrough that was included in the PSVR CUH-ZVR2 not long after release.
And we knew that was coming too, we thought those was features was for PSVR2 because "researching" means it's year's away.....it wasn't.

 

[ManaByte]

4K and PlayStation 5 graphics ?
Sony says it’s not. But I guess I’ll believe you..

PC graphics. Which are better.

 

[dano1]

PC graphics. Which are better.

Probably depends on the PC PS5 is better than most.
I’m all about best graphics and if that means a cable I’m good with that

 

[squeakywheel]

I'll wait for the wireless belt pack option. If I'm throwing $700 Cdn to a VR headset not compatible with my PC, it better be wireless. Iam willing to wait. My PSVR 1 kinda left me with a bad taste as a day 1 adopter.

 

[Dream-Knife]

4k120, 3d, hdr... We barely have a cables that do that lol.
that + cameras, eye tracking, powering screens.

nah. I take the cable instead of heavy headset with bad video quality

The PS5 itself can't do 4k120 in a modern game. Wireless is fine for this application.

I wouldn't bank on there being a wireless revision for the PSVR2, unless they came out with an add-on.

What I think is more likely is that the PSVR3 will have a wireless [option].

If I'm Sony... I eventually bring PSVR2 to PC and with a PC launcher marketed especially as a competitor to Steam VR. Pushing their VR investment in games on both PS5 and PC.

PSVR3 being a more mass-marketed device with a wireless option.

That's how you build an ecosystem.

Sony isn't going to make a VR launcher. You do realize you can use any VR headset on Steam right? As long as the drivers come to PC that is.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The PS5 itself can't do 4k120 in a modern game. Wireless is fine for this application.


Sony isn't going to make a VR launcher. You do realize you can use any VR headset on Steam right? As long as the drivers come to PC that is.

I love how people conflate things as the foundation of their argument.

Obviously Sony could support PSVR2 through Steam. What I said is that I don't think they'll want to do that. At least not exclusively.

Sony wants royalties they don't want to pay royalties. There's no more reason to think that Sony would support PC without their own storefront/launcher than it is to think they would start putting out their games on Xbox.

 

[Paperboy]

If they with 'wireless' mean not having to be tethered but still close to your PS5, then yes. If they mean 'bringing it with you' - we're not there yet. I'm not sure wireless or not is the deal breaker for most consumers. Being more exhausting to play for longer sessions and a lack of full-fledged gaming experiences are bigger worries, in my opinion. Going from Oculus Rift S to Pico 4 personally, the greatest upgrade were the higher resolution and the flat lenses (which made it possible to look around with my eyes and enhanced the immersion). The PSVR 2 has significant higher resolution among other things than the first installation. If it will be successful or not is more up to the price and the quality of the games.

 

[Paperboy]

Sony wants royalties they don't want to pay royalties. There's no more reason to think that Sony would support PC without their own storefront/launcher than it is to think they would start putting out their games on Xbox.

Yes. To add to this discussion: people begging Valve to release Alyx on other platforms - I say forget it! They forget a big reason why Alyx was created; to promote the then newly released Valve Index or at least draw more customers to the Steam platform.

 

[Crayon]

A shitty headband is worse than a wire imo. I hadn't had to clamp a headset straight to my face in a long time because I'd only used a psvr since I got it. Then a few months ago I was hooking up a vive for my friend's kids and that typical strap arrangement sucks bad.

 

[CamHostage]

So uhhh why didn't they make it modular? Allow users to buy a more expensive wireless adapter setup for the headset if they want. Win win.

Modular would make for something more bulky/rattly and potentially breakable. A big empty battery bank or extra hooks would be a weird design flaw, especially if they don't know yet what would plug into that expansion port.

That said, the idea of a belt-held wireless accessory (a few people mentioned that idea) seems doable, I think? Basically a small pocket pack which would contain a battery and a WiFi6e 6Ghz or mmWave device that would talk with a similar WiFI/mmWave breakout box connected to PS5, then the headset wire would run down to that and you would otherwise be untethered from your console in your gameplay space. All the benefits of wireless, maximum performance of what current wireless allows (since it would be whatever best wireless standard possible on both ends instead of depending on what the PS5 currently packs), and the option always to switch from wired to wireless, with only the slight difference in comfort of having a wire on your back (if you'd even notice, but you would be unlikely to get caught up in your own wire if it was attached to your body.



(Imagine that bracket being in your pocket instead of strapped to the headset.)

I could see that being possible even with the current PSVR2 setup (though I'm not sure how the cabling works out, and how much extra line you would need to stuff in your pockets.) Price seems iffy though, since a 4K mmWave router looks to be over $200 right now and I'm not sure what only a 6GHz router (without the full WiFi 6 spectrum) would come out to.

 

[dano1]

I'll wait for the wireless belt pack option. If I'm throwing $700 Cdn to a VR headset not compatible with my PC, it better be wireless. Iam willing to wait. My PSVR 1 kinda left me with a bad taste as a day 1 adopter.

The problem was the display and the control system. Cable wasn’t that big a deal to me. And the new one is one simple light cable

 

[Dream-Knife]

I love how people conflate things as the foundation of their argument.

Obviously Sony could support PSVR2 through Steam. What I said is that I don't think they'll want to do that. At least not exclusively.

Sony wants royalties they don't want to pay royalties. There's no more reason to think that Sony would support PC without their own storefront/launcher than it is to think they would start putting out their games on Xbox.

Why would Sony do their own launcher, and why would anyone use it?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Why would Sony do their own launcher, and why would anyone use it?

Exclusive games, and enhanced features like trophy support/sync.

 

[poppabk]

Exclusive games, and enhanced features like trophy support/sync.

No-one really gives a shit about trophies. And no-one is going to buy a $500 VR headset that can only be used with games purchased from Sonys store.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yes. To add to this discussion: people begging Valve to release Alyx on other platforms - I say forget it! They forget a big reason why Alyx was created; to promote the then newly released Valve Index or at least draw more customers to the Steam platform.

That's right. Steam is a competitor to PS5 as a platform just as much as Xbox is.

We don't see that being the case right now, but as Sony's plans evolve, that will become more evident.

Alyx will never be ported to PSVR2 under the current circumstances. That sucks for Sony in the short term, but in the long term, they're going to make plenty of AAA grade VR games of their own. I just can't envision those sandboxed on PS5 alone.

The meaning of PlayStation is going to change dramatically within the next 5 years. PlayStation is going to be a storefront across a multitude of devices. But every time Sony makes exclusive deals for games to come out on PS5 and PC (Steam, EGS), I can only envision they'd evolve those deals to be exclusive on their PC storefront/launcher as well.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

No-one really gives a shit about trophies. And no-one is going to buy a $500 VR headset that can only be used with games purchased from Sonys store.

What you'll see is pretty much all VR devs putting games on Sony's PC and PS5 VR stores, rather than have somewhat of a monopoly with Steam VR. It'll also make sense to support PSVR2 on PS5/PC since the porting will be easy and that will have the largest combined install base.

And people actually do care about trophies. You and I apparently don't, but many people do. Cross platform saves could also been another feature.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I'd personally take a high-fidelity wired VR over a low-fidelity wireless VR. We already have a Quest for those who want a second option.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

j-platpat

www.j-platpat.inpit.go.jp

Here is Sony's patent describing their thoughts on using 60ghz band as the primary wireless with a 5ghz backup that would need to happen instantaneously on losing the 60ghz connection.

This was from 2019, so clearly they've thought this through and they didn't implement it here for cause.

 

[poppabk]

What you'll see is pretty much all VR devs putting games on Sony's PC and PS5 VR stores, rather than have somewhat of a monopoly with Steam VR. It'll also make sense to support PSVR2 on PS5/PC since the porting will be easy and that will have the largest combined install base.

And people actually do care about trophies. You and I apparently don't, but many people do. Cross platform saves could also been another feature.

But unless the Sony store supports other VR hardware, or their hardware works with other stores no-one on PC is going to lock themselves in to specific hardware locked to a specific store. Some people who already own playstations care about trophies - but there are steam achievements or card packs or whatever for people who are in to that kind of thing on PC already.

 

[Tygeezy]

I have a PSVR2 Horizon bundle pre-ordered, but you're wrong. You can't do true room scale VR that lots of games on the Quest 2 are designed around with a tether coming off your headset.

I have a quest 2 and predominantly play either standing in a small area or sitting. You aren’t playing full roomscale for population one, resident evil 4, compound, ancient dungeon, ect. Essentially any game that requires you to travel a distance further than your play space, which is most of the games.

 

[Tygeezy]

I’m done arguing about this stuff since I’ve spent enough time in VR to know what I like and don’t like. Wire makes it less fun and cumbersome.

I own a quest 2 also and have played it a ton. The wireless doesn’t really help for large scale games that require left stick for movement. It certainly does for roomscale only games which I don’t own a single one.

 

[Ozriel]

No shit they are.

And the trend of wireless they refer to VR basically means the quest. High end headsets are either tethered or have pricey wireless options.

Lots of peoole are playing high end PCVR experiences wirelessly on the Quest 2.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Lots of peoole are playing high end PCVR experiences wirelessly on the Quest 2.

But that is a pricey option, considering you're streaming from a very powerful and expensive gaming system. Then you also need Quest 2.

 

[Ozriel]

But that is a pricey option, considering you're streaming from a very powerful and expensive gaming system. Then you also need Quest 2.

I’m not sure you got the context for my response.

I made that comment in response to claims that you can’t do high end VR wirelessly. And that’s not factual

It IS highly dependent on your router, so it’s clear why Sony went with wired so they can at least guarantee user experience. But they could ideally sell standardized wireless conversion kits with a dedicated router

 

[Jim Ryan other Clone]

Yeah but wireless doesn't look like shit with a decent setup, it's basically indistinguishable from a wired connection. I understand them going wired so they can guarantee performance and to keep costs down but I have the choice and I nearly always choose wireless.

What is this decent set up and how much it costs? Here there is no decent set up that powers the psvr2 but the playstation. Is this decent set up that will power and provide good quality games cost 450/550€ or your decent set up only to press power on you need over 1000€? Some people are very bad at mathematics and common sense.

 

[Crayon]

Lots of people are playing high end PCVR experiences wirelessly on the Quest 2.

High end headsets are either tethered or have pricey wireless options.

 

[rofif]

The PS5 itself can't do 4k120 in a modern game. Wireless is fine for this application.


Sony isn't going to make a VR launcher. You do realize you can use any VR headset on Steam right? As long as the drivers come to PC that is.

It’s about signal not really really doing that internally

 

[Ozriel]

High end headsets are either tethered or have pricey wireless options.

People are VERY happily using the $35 Tplink archer A6 for Oculus Quest 2 Airlink.