My god, and no I was a normal townie =(
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Pokémon Mafia |OT| Gotta Catch Em Scum!
- Thread starter Burbeting
- Start date
Blargonaut
Banned
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
L_P and Fireblend? called it.
Roy? im not surprised.
but Sawneeks?
dayam
dayaaaaaaaaaaaaam
that one i wouldnt have thought, like ever.
nice game people,
and sorry for my pretty abysmal performance in those first few days.
excuse me while i just trip over my shoelaces and as such dodge a bullet.
Roy? im not surprised.
but Sawneeks?
dayam
dayaaaaaaaaaaaaam
that one i wouldnt have thought, like ever.
nice game people,
and sorry for my pretty abysmal performance in those first few days.
excuse me while i just trip over my shoelaces and as such dodge a bullet.
I read the spec chat. Yeah, I already figured this
Well, at least you can't be to mad at me, I was just playing my role! Those other goobers tho, yeah, terrible
That would be nin.
Womp Womp.
Don't go for the obvious protection in a potential protect or lose situation.
Commentary:
That was a... very clean sweep by scum. Only scum lynch was Blarg, and even he had the Vengeful role (first time in Gafia, I think?).
I feel that town deserved to lose this one. The lynches in D2, 3 and 4 were all very sub-optimal, and there wasn't any serious discussion about possible SK after el topo died, and no connection was thought on why Topo and Christina both died. Ynnek got the easy route this time.
That was a... very clean sweep by scum. Only scum lynch was Blarg, and even he had the Vengeful role (first time in Gafia, I think?).
I feel that town deserved to lose this one. The lynches in D2, 3 and 4 were all very sub-optimal, and there wasn't any serious discussion about possible SK after el topo died, and no connection was thought on why Topo and Christina both died. Ynnek got the easy route this time
.Yep. Like a Great man saif yesterday.
You all lose.
Well deserved loss but I cant say that it wasnt fun
I didn't lose
Melon was the Doc???????
shit
knew i should have listened to my gut on that one...
Speaking of the Chat/Trainers, I'm surprised no one pointed out that the Trainer PM states that the Superior Win is against 'other town factions' and not just 'other Trainers'. Just by the wording it would have been an easy guess to say all Trainers were Town. :x
/)w(\
Ah, thank you! And to those who said kind words in the Spec thread as well, I really appreciate them. Thank you. c:
shit
knew i should have listened to my gut on that one...
Speaking of the Chat/Trainers, I'm surprised no one pointed out that the Trainer PM states that the Superior Win is against 'other town factions' and not just 'other Trainers'. Just by the wording it would have been an easy guess to say all Trainers were Town. :x
/)w(\
Ah, thank you! And to those who said kind words in the Spec thread as well, I really appreciate them. Thank you. c:
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I think the game was pretty well balanced but scum hitting the trainers early (2 were dead by the end of D3) and general apathy among town really scuttled things.
Were trainers meant to operate as a pseudo-cop? I know we floated that idea in scum chat.
I wish someone caught me.
Were trainers meant to operate as a pseudo-cop? I know we floated that idea in scum chat.
I wish someone caught me.
melonrabbit
Member
GG, everyone.
Sorry I was the worst doctor ever. It was my first time. I really didn't know who to protect last night
I knew I was right about Sawneeks and LP being rotten.
Sorry I was the worst doctor ever. It was my first time. I really didn't know who to protect last night
I knew I was right about Sawneeks and LP being rotten.
*clap clap clap*
Congratulations! Town was straight up outplayed by scum and Ynnek. Sawneeks is my MVP and did a really good job faking reads, but everybody played really well.
Congratulations! Town was straight up outplayed by scum and Ynnek. Sawneeks is my MVP and did a really good job faking reads, but everybody played really well.
I would've maybe targeted you N2 if you hadn't fake claimed veteran. Wanted a Danganronpa reunion
Surviving to end game is pretty good for a doctor regardless. Two strongman kills also countered you pretty well and none of us had a clue that the neutral killer had to target captured Pokemons.GG, everyone.
Sorry I was the worst doctor ever. It was my first time. I really didn't know who to protect last night
I knew I was right about Sawneeks and LP being rotten.
For what? I don't understand this theory at all, can you please explain it to me?
melonrabbit
Member
Yeah. I just feel bad. I wanted to play a bit better.
I feel like the setup favoured scum a bit, but it's hard to say as I feel every town PR was wasted.
Celebrity - lynched
Tracker - incomplete claim leading to death. The timing of this also meant that Sawneek's didn't get any suspicion for surviving when she should have been a top candidate that night
Commuter - Didn't absorb any scum actions, got tied to a bulletproof claim before late game
Doctor - didn't save anyone, I don't know if this was bad picks or just bad luck though, haven't seen her targets
Also a double vote and whatever Stan was, but I don't really consider these PRs
Our main PRs for scumhunting were tracker and doctor, and I think it was overkill for scum to have counters to both (I know they have to choose but still).
Also a 5 man scum team is apparently standard for a 23 player game. But with a serial killer AND a scum double kill (vengeful) its maybe a bit much? At least for such a weak town. (Compare to DR, we had 4 scum and more town PRs to worry about (not that DR was perfect)).
On the other hand there were the trainers. I don't know. I definitely underestimated their utility until I was dead, but it was also hard to trust they were all town (especially when they had slight variations). If you wanted us to "guess" this from "all town factions" then I think you should have just made this more explicit... but then that's crazy OP. Ok I don't know the best way to handle trainers. Tbh I think it would make more sense if they were in fact different alignments.
This last bit is maybe personal preference rather than balance concern, but I really didn't like the "stronger win condition" stuff. It would make sense in the context of some kind of league, but we don't really do that here. I think this needed to be replaced with a tangible in-game benefit (for the currently largest team(s)) so that it's influence/value could be discussed.
I guess I haven't asked any questions, but these were my thoughts anyway.
GG, everyone.
Sorry I was the worst doctor ever. It was my first time. I really didn't know who to protect last night
I knew I was right about Sawneeks and LP being rotten.
You did fine, you managed to walk the thin line between being suspicious but not being lynched which is crucial for a PR. But one thing I wanted to tell you: even though scum didn't figure you out, don't jump on players who mention the doc right away. It was pretty obvious in my eyes especially since you did it twice afair. The one conversation with Blarg "how would you know what the doc is going to do??" was pretty telling.
I put you in my town reads because of that during D3. This leads to my next question directed at everyone:
When I'm 90% sure to have found the doctor or any other PR and want to help him, what do I do? In hindsight putting her (and Dusk whom I believed to be the vig) as my top town doesn't look like the best course of actions as it sheds light on them. Scum could focus on it ala why does he but them as top town? Does he know something we don't? So how to support town PR in this kind of situations (other than drawing the NK on yourself ;p)
If a trainer fails to catch someone, that forces a (non-ordinary) claim, which is a difficult situation for scum.
Not exactly a cop but definitely some use in it.
I was initially trying to capture someone who was town, unlikely to be hit by other trainers and likely to live to the end initially with CM, but I realized that town win was alpha omega regardless so I wanted to captured active players who could aid town.
I asked Splinter a lot about his top town read because I was suspecting he was a trainer and wanted to avoid his target.
I went back and forth and inevitably just realized I wanted to capture you the most and was over-thinking it. Danganronpa reunion was a plus
We would have to come up with an explanation for it, and claiming trainer or caught Pokemon was impossible since that is easy to check. Especially after blargs flip outed there being non human scum, if Nin tried to catch me or fire I see no real way we could have talked ourselves out of that.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
The most egregious error by the doctor was not protecting the tracker the night he claimed, even if scum used their strongman. But melon did fine as we suspected Verelios as the doc for the longest time (even after blocking melon one night).
Maybe the issue in this game is the same one that was in PiR, which was overestimating the importance of gossips. I suppose in a perfect world you'd have multiple confirmed teams working together to hunt scum, but after it backfired spectacularly in PiR (recency bias also didn't help), it didn't do anything for town.
That, and as Splinter said, the town PR's were wasted (celebrity lynched, tracker didn't track anything despite trainers, scum, and SK). Also I think the trainer mechanic hurt town more than it helped (was TR a trainer, are there scum Pokemon, alignment changes, superior win, etc.). We saw a similar situation in PiR with bidding and items. What's unknown is suspicious.
Maybe GAFia just likes their standard mafia games?
Maybe the issue in this game is the same one that was in PiR, which was overestimating the importance of gossips. I suppose in a perfect world you'd have multiple confirmed teams working together to hunt scum, but after it backfired spectacularly in PiR (recency bias also didn't help), it didn't do anything for town.
That, and as Splinter said, the town PR's were wasted (celebrity lynched, tracker didn't track anything despite trainers, scum, and SK). Also I think the trainer mechanic hurt town more than it helped (was TR a trainer, are there scum Pokemon, alignment changes, superior win, etc.). We saw a similar situation in PiR with bidding and items. What's unknown is suspicious.
Maybe GAFia just likes their standard mafia games?
Yeah vanilla is not good for town
Town needs something to talk about, but with these mechanics (and the same happened in PiR) the discussion generated isn't at all helpful for scumhunting. It's all "what's going on?" which, if anything, is even easier for scum to blend in with than nothing.
Thinking back to past games for counterexamples:
WDiotL had several PRs that would interact with each other
Archer had missions and anyone could see what scum would like to do to influence them (I think?)
Danganronpa had the map and PRs seeing each other every night
Matrix/Mini Mafia has extra info about the setup
My memory is failing me, but basically I think town needs something to get started. Either more PRs that bounce off each other or a game mechanic that directly aids scumhunting
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
agreed,
i know my biggest problem with this game is how the trainers werea completely mystery, so far too much time was spent speculating what they could possibly be/do, which left far too little scum hunting.
iirc Day 3 in particular was almost completely consumed by mechanic speculation.
i know my biggest problem with this game is how the trainers werea completely mystery, so far too much time was spent speculating what they could possibly be/do, which left far too little scum hunting.
iirc Day 3 in particular was almost completely consumed by mechanic speculation.
The most egregious error by the doctor was not protecting the tracker the night he claimed, even if scum used their strongman. But melon did fine as we suspected Verelios as the doc for the longest time (even after blocking melon one night).
Maybe the issue in this game is the same one that was in PiR, which was overestimating the importance of gossips. I suppose in a perfect world you'd have multiple confirmed teams working together to hunt scum, but after it backfired spectacularly in PiR (recency bias also didn't help), it didn't do anything for town.
That, and as Splinter said, the town PR's were wasted (celebrity lynched, tracker didn't track anything despite trainers, scum, and SK). Also I think the trainer mechanic hurt town more than it helped (was TR a trainer, are there scum Pokemon, alignment changes, superior win, etc.). We saw a similar situation in PiR with bidding and items. What's unknown is suspicious.
Maybe GAFia just likes their standard mafia games?
If there's one thing I've learned from both this and The Price Is Right, is that town doesn't handle non-standard mechanics very well. In TPIR lots of people were confused by the bidding, and here people (myself included) were confused by the "Superior Win condition"
Maybe going forward, it'd be best if non-standard games find at least one or two people to present the mechanics to them in a way that town will receive them.
Man, wouldn't it be great to have a game with a non standard mechanic that is open knowledge! Man, if only someone makes such a game!
Just so you all know, I really didn't want to lynch any of you.... You were much more important to me as candy!
Thanks so much for running the game Burbeting!
Congrats to the scum team, I really couldn't get a good read on any of you. The secret code talk was brilliant.
I was considering going after Sawneeks on my last night, but I had a good feeling that no one would be protecting Sketch and already knew that she wasn't a normal type, so the two candies were too tempting to skip.
There were a few points where I had considered coming forward as a Vigilante and apologizing for hitting town, but figured keeping quiet on my involvement was the safer play.
Had a lot of fun
Thanks so much for running the game Burbeting!
Congrats to the scum team, I really couldn't get a good read on any of you. The secret code talk was brilliant.
I was considering going after Sawneeks on my last night, but I had a good feeling that no one would be protecting Sketch and already knew that she wasn't a normal type, so the two candies were too tempting to skip.
There were a few points where I had considered coming forward as a Vigilante and apologizing for hitting town, but figured keeping quiet on my involvement was the safer play.
Had a lot of fun
Hey hey hey. Sorry I realized the mistake in TPIR too late. ;_;
In regards to this game tho, I really LOVED the communication between mafia here. Blarg and Sawneeks especially just did so awesome with the cypher and his gambit to make town lynch him for the win.
Dusk Soldier
Member
It just too bad they died so quickly. That, combined with how easy town made it for the serial killer, put town in a bad spot too quickly.
Would have been interesting to see how scum handled multiple members missing from the scum chat
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I didn't really get the point of redacting Barrylocke's info N1 though. I doubt anyone was going to blanket assume that all trainers were town based on his full role PM.
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Also, I am losing my edge. Roy and Sawneeks both fell for my pokemon readlist trap, and I didn't follow up or pursue it or anything.
Although I guess I wasn't actually suspicious of Fireblend at the time so I didn't want to tunnel. But if one of the three had flipped scum later in the game, I doubt I would have remembered their connection.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
grats pokemon players and BestBearmon
gg scummies
gg scummies
Just so you all know, I really didn't want to lynch any of you.... You were much more important to me as candy!
Thanks so much for running the game Burbeting!
Congrats to the scum team, I really couldn't get a good read on any of you. The secret code talk was brilliant.
I was considering going after Sawneeks on my last night, but I had a good feeling that no one would be protecting Sketch and already knew that she wasn't a normal type, so the two candies were too tempting to skip.
There were a few points where I had considered coming forward as a Vigilante and apologizing for hitting town, but figured keeping quiet on my involvement was the safer play.
Had a lot of fun
Well Played Mate. Well Played
Just so you all know, I really didn't want to lynch any of you.... You were much more important to me as candy!
Thanks so much for running the game Burbeting!
Congrats to the scum team, I really couldn't get a good read on any of you. The secret code talk was brilliant.
I was considering going after Sawneeks on my last night, but I had a good feeling that no one would be protecting Sketch and already knew that she wasn't a normal type, so the two candies were too tempting to skip.
There were a few points where I had considered coming forward as a Vigilante and apologizing for hitting town, but figured keeping quiet on my involvement was the safer play.
Had a lot of fun
Yeah, that would have ended badly for you. We were super afraid a vig would kill blarg, wasting his power. Coming out as the vig would have made you our #1 enemy.
I wasn't referencing PiR actually, but Witcher going to have a non standard, but open mechanic.
Barrylocke
Member
Oh and Thanks Barry for letting me be One of the coolest chars in the world
No problem bb. I gutread you as townish in Day 1 and I figured you'd probably be a low priority target for both trainers and scum. I was happy to see you awaken and be a town freedom fighter in the last couple days, even if it didn't play out so well. I'm glad to see you at least stayed fab until the very end in my stead.
