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PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags

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L

Loudninja

Member
K

Krauser Kat

Member
he just rode on through. The long this goes on the more and more i want to sit down and talk to tea party supporters in closed interrogation type rooms just to pick their brain. If they honestly cant see any merits of the other side, I think our country is doomed. Young people, please grow up and stay liberal.
 
S

StevieP

Banned
empty vessel said:
The reasons for the vast majority of our deficit (i.e., our current yearly excess of spending over revenue) are the Bush tax cuts, two wars, and Wall Street's crashing of the economy. The main culprit, however, is simply insufficient taxation of income and corporations (exacerbated by the Bush tax cuts, which reduced revenue to still further unsustainable levels).

The rise in health care costs will cause federal spending on Medicare to increase in the long-term, but it's got nothing to do with either Medicare or the deficit per se. Military spending is too high, but has been for decades.
Click to expand...

Bububu if you tax corporations you kill jobs! They need a ridiculously low corporate tax rate to create jobs
overseas
.
 
G

gcubed

Member
Krauser Kat said:
he just rode on through. The long this goes on the more and more i want to sit down and talk to tea party supporters in closed interrogation type rooms just to pick their brain. If they honestly cant see any merits of the other side, I think our country is doomed. Young people, please grow up and stay liberal.
Click to expand...

there is no reason to stay liberal. There is plenty of validity to the other side as long as we dont talk about extremes on either side. Its kinda silly to push for a "tea party for the democrats", etc (not you but i saw it earlier). Everything a lot of posters here complain about they want to gladly bring to their side to balance out the crazy. Radicalism of a party is a fad, in the end hurts they party more then it helps. I realize most people started heavily following politics recently so it seems like its the end of the world, but the same party that swept in to power, barring redistricting issues and any weird shit happening in the next year, has a pretty good chance to be swept right back out. Why? Because of the fanaticism of the people (coupled by the fact that, hey, maybe Joe the Plumbers don't belong in positions of power).

Jason's Ultimatum said:
Unemployment/job numbers are released already? I always thought they were released on the first Friday of every month.
Click to expand...

these are ADP numbers, numbers from Labor come on Friday
 
D

David Incorporated Esq.

Member
gcubed said:
there is no reason to stay liberal. There is plenty of validity to the other side as long as we dont talk about extremes on either side. Its kinda silly to push for a "tea party for the democrats", etc (not you but i saw it earlier).
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I don't think you can equate being liberal with being a part of the tea party.
 
G

gcubed

Member
Dave Inc. said:
I don't think you can equate being liberal with being a part of the tea party.
Click to expand...

i wasnt trying to, the gist i got from the post was that it was just a comparison between liberal and conservative, then i just jumped into a rant from posts a few days ago that was incredibly loosely tied to the original post
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Jackson50 said:
Oh, surprise. Iraq is gradually moving towards a renewed pact that permits American troops to remain past 2011. Apparently, prominent political leaders permitted the government to negotiate a new SOFA. Granted, the Iraqi Parliament could reject a pact. Yet that is unlikely since the government has already been permitted to negotiate a new agreement. I surmise the Sadrist List and its coalition partners assented. Otherwise, the negotiations would be a great political risk.
Click to expand...


GOT DAMN IT! We ain't never leaving Iraq. Lets keeps wasting our money in Iraq while we cut Medicare, Medicad, and do nothing to create jobs in America. And hell while we are at it lets lower taxes more for businesses and rich folk.
 
B

besada

Banned
quadriplegicjon said:
I'm not going to go through DudeAbides post history, but he was basically laying down an argument as to why Liberals should not vote for Democrats.. that is basically what Republicans want, and thus would reward them for their shittastic behavior.
Click to expand...

Learn to read. Dude wasn't arguing why people SHOULD not vote for Democrats, he was predicting why people WOULD not vote for Democrats. There's a significant difference, that you can't seem to grasp. One is prescriptive, one is descriptive.

Neither calls for making assholish assumptions about their motivations. Figure it out or we'll continue having little conversations like this.
 
A

adamsappel

Member
Diablos said:
Not exactly all that surprising. Most Americans have always called themselves either "conservative" or "middle of the road" or "moderate".
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My late mother-in-law (RIP) once called herself "so middle of the road it's not even funny." This was in the same conversation where she longed for her days in the John Birch Society, said she was glad Martin Luther King got killed for being the cause of all that violence, and couldn't believe that veterans got free health care for life.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
besada said:
Learn to read. Dude wasn't arguing why people SHOULD not vote for Democrats, he was predicting why people WOULD not vote for Democrats. There's a significant difference, that you can't seem to grasp. One is prescriptive, one is descriptive.

Neither calls for making assholish assumptions about their motivations. Figure it out or we'll continue having little conversations like this.
Click to expand...


What is with the damn insults. I may have misread his posts (I was quickly reading through while taking breaks from cleaning/unpacking my new apartment), but I wasn't the one being an asshole here. The Dude could have also clarified his post, but he didn't. No idea why you got so uppity about this.

and FYI, there have been others on here that have expressed the sentiments I thought he was displaying.. thus why I did not think it out of the ordinary.

SO. If the Dude was not expressing those sentiments, but explaining why others may feel them.. MY POINT STILL STANDS. It just doesn't pertain to Dude.
 
B

besada

Banned
quadriplegicjon said:
What is with the damn insults. I may have misread his posts (I was quickly reading through while taking breaks from cleaning/unpacking my new apartment), but I wasn't the one being an asshole here. The Dude could have also clarified his post, but he didn't. No idea why you got so uppity about this.

and FYI, there have been others on here that have expressed the sentiments I thought he was displaying.. thus why I did not think it out of the ordinary.
Click to expand...
Actually, you were the one being an asshole. If you don't have time to read and understand the posts you're responding to, then don't respond to them.

I got "uppity" (and boy, is that a loaded word) because you've done the same thing to me and other regular posters, as I pointed out earlier. And you aren't the only one. And I've grown a little tired of anyone being unable to address criticisms of this administration without having someone suggest they want to reward Republicans.

You're welcome to be as uncritical as you want, but if you keep shitting on people who feel differently, without bothering to understand what they're actually saying, I'm going to say something about it. It's as simple as that.

And Dude is a regular, long term poster here, so if you aren't aware of his politics, that's on you, not anyone else. Again, if you don't know who you're talking to, and can't be bothered to read what they're saying, then maybe you should not bother responding. We aren't the people you go to college with. We're all unique human beings, with unique opinions, and treating us as if we were an imaginary collective in your mind is insulting and a waste of everyone's time.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
As you may know, an agreement between Barack Obama and the Republicans and Democrats in Congress would raise the federal government's debt ceiling through the year 2013 and make major cuts in government spending over the next few years.


4. Based on what you have read or heard, do you approve or disapprove of that agreement?

Aug. 1
2011

Approve 44%
Disapprove 52%
No opinion 5%
​


Not surprised to see this answer.



6. As you may know, the agreement would cut about one trillion dollars in government spending over the next ten years with provisions to make additional spending cuts in the future. Regardless of how you feel about the overall agreement, do you approve or disapprove of the cuts in government spending included in the debt ceiling agreement?

Aug. 1
2011
Approve 65%
Disapprove 30%
No opinion 4%
​


Not surprised by this answer either. Americans want spending cuts.




8. And as you may know, the agreement does not include any tax increases for business or higherincome Americans. Regardless of how you feel about the overall agreement, do you approve or disapprove of the fact that the debt ceiling agreement does not include tax increases for those groups?

Aug. 1
2011
Approve 40%
Disapprove 60%
No opinion 1%
​


People wanted a balanced bill and we didn't get one. Who's going to take the bigger hit for this in the eyes of the public? The GOP for stopping it from being balanced? Or the DEMs that wanted it and couldn't get it from the GOP due to stupidity?



11. Who do you think is more responsible for the debt ceiling agreement? Do you think Barack Obama and the Democrats in Congress are more responsible for that agreement, or do you think the Republicans in Congress are more responsible for that agreement?

Aug. 1
2011
Obama/Democrats in Congress 34%
Republicans in Congress 43%
Both equally (vol.) 18%
Neither (vol.) 2%
No opinion 4%
​


You'd think the GOP would take a hit due to this bill passing. But we all know that ain't happening.

Code: 
12. Next, please tell me whether you approve or disapprove of the way each of the following has handled
the negotiations over the debt ceiling in Washington over the past few days.  (RANDOM ORDER)
Approve Disapprove No opinion
Barack Obama 46% 53% 2%

The Republican leaders
   in Congress 30% 68% 2%

The Democratic leaders
   in Congress 35% 63% 2%

####################

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/08/02/rel12a.pdf


The GOP look shitty in this poll overall. So honestly why won't they take a hit next year at the ballot box?
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
besada said:
Actually, you were the one being an asshole. If you don't have time to read and understand the posts you're responding to, then don't respond to them.

I got "uppity" (and boy, is that a loaded word) because you've done the same thing to me and other regular posters, as I pointed out earlier. And you aren't the only one. And I've grown a little tired of anyone being unable to address criticisms of this administration without having someone suggest they want to reward Republicans.

You're welcome to be as uncritical as you want, but if you keep shitting on people who feel differently, without bothering to understand what they're actually saying, I'm going to say something about it. It's as simple as that.

And Dude is a regular, long term poster here, so if you aren't aware of his politics, that's on you, not anyone else. Again, if you don't know who you're talking to, and can't be bothered to read what they're saying, then maybe you should not bother responding. We aren't the people you go to college with. We're all unique human beings, with unique opinions, and treating us as if we were an imaginary collective in your mind is insulting and a waste of everyone's time.
Click to expand...


I was being an asshole by saying that by not voting it gives the Republicans what they want? L - O - FUCKING - L

Once again, I never said criticism is unwarranted, or should not be displayed.. but I also see quite a bit of misdirected criticism, which is, again, what republicans want.

and my sincere apologies for not remembering the nuanced opinions of all the regular posters in Poligaf.

Uppity is a loaded word now? How dare I! :.(


Anywho, here is my post again:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29788618&postcount=10647


quadriplegicjon said:
Exactly.. I don't get that sentiment. The republicans are the ones doing this shit, but people like the Dude seem to want to reward them even more for this crap.
Click to expand...


Holy shit, so offensive!!!!!

Let me modify it, hows this:

"Exactly.. I don't get that sentiment. The republicans are the ones doing this shit, but people like who the Dude is talking about seem to want to reward them even more for this crap."


Is that better? Or still offensive because I think that inaction is quite foolish?
 
Dude Abides

Dude Abides

Banned
quadriplegicjon said:
What is with the damn insults. I may have misread his posts (I was quickly reading through while taking breaks from cleaning/unpacking my new apartment), but I wasn't the one being an asshole here. The Dude could have also clarified his post, but he didn't. No idea why you got so uppity about this.

and FYI, there have been others on here that have expressed the sentiments I thought he was displaying.. thus why I did not think it out of the ordinary.

SO. If the Dude was not expressing those sentiments, but explaining why others may feel them.. MY POINT STILL STANDS. It just doesn't pertain to Dude.
Click to expand...

My post didn't need any clarification. Besada understood it perfectly well. You can continue to rail about how dumb young voters are if they don't come out and vote for Dems, or you can try to understand their lack of enthusiasm. I was trying to explain the latter, but you seem more interested in the former. Your prerogative.

Edit: they don't want to reward the GOP, they just don't see that what the Dems offer is worth the trouble.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
mckmas8808 said:
The GOP look shitty in this poll overall. So honestly why won't they take a hit next year at the ballot box?
Click to expand...
You really think people will remember that by the election?
It's going to be the economy, it always is.

Ironically, if conservatives are right and the cuts are going to spur growth and prosperity*, Obama wins; is liberals are right, and austerity in the face of recession doesn't work, he loses, badly.


* no, I don't think conservatives actually believe that, but that's a different story.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Dude Abides said:
Dude Abides said:
My post didn't need any clarification. Besada understood it perfectly well. You can continue to rail about how dumb young voters are if they don't come out and vote for Dems, or you can try to understand their lack of enthusiasm. I was trying to explain the latter, but you seem more interested in the former. Your prerogative.

Edit: they don't want to reward the GOP, they just don't see that what the Dems offer is worth the trouble.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


If they want progressive legislation, they should vote for more progressive Democrats, starting with the primaries. By not voting, it only makes things worse. If young liberals don't vote, they don't have a place to complain about the outcomes... What I was trying to comment on was about how liberals in this country seem to be very complacent and would rather give up instead of truly pushing for change. I completely understand why there is a lack of enthusiasm for Dems, but peoples reactions don't help.

and I know they don't want to reward the GOP, but that is basically what is happening, and what I was trying to explain.

I also never initially lobbied any insults to anyone. Some of you guys are way too touchy.
 
B

besada

Banned
Let me modify it, hows this:

"Exactly.. I don't get that sentiment. The republicans are the ones doing this shit, but people like who the Dude is talking about seem to want to reward them even more for this crap."


Is that better? Or still offensive because I think that inaction is quite foolish?
Click to expand...

Thats much better, actually. If you'd bothered to spend half the time considering what you posted that you've spent trying to spin what you posted, we could have avoided this conversation. Considering how easy it is, you'd think you would start there, rather than responding to imaginary people and then hving to defend that stupid post for days. But if you want to continue posting before you think or read, I'll be here to remind you.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
besada said:
Thats much better, actually. If you'd bothered to spend half the time considering what you posted that you've spent trying to spin what you posted, we could have avoided this conversation. Considering how easy it is, you'd think you would start there, rather than responding to imaginary people and then hving to defend that stupid post for days. But if you want to continue posting before you think or read, I'll be here to remind you.
Click to expand...


Yes commander! How dare I misread a post. I'll try to be better sir! and the fuck, I haven't been spinning anything. My point has not changed.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
mckmas8808 said:
The GOP look shitty in this poll overall. So honestly why won't they take a hit next year at the ballot box?
Click to expand...
GOP agenda for 2011: damage economy as much as possible (see: FAA bill idling ~70,000 construction workers and furloughing thousands more; slash other spending as much as possible; oppose all jobs bills).

GOP agenda for 2012: Point out how shitty the economy is, blame Obama.

Will it work? Dunno. Obama will be tough to defeat. But he'll be running into very strong economic headwinds.
 
G

gcubed

Member
A Human Becoming said:
The public has a short memory.
Click to expand...

the same reason people were being silly thinking this debt negotiation is going to sully obama next year. People aren't going to remember this next MONTH let alone next year
 
B

besada

Banned
quadriplegicjon said:
Yes commander! How dare I misread a post. I'll try to be better sir! and the fuck, I haven't been spinning anything. My point has not changed.
Click to expand...

Your point was that DudeAbides was rewarding Republicans. You changed that point directly above, and admitted you'd read his post incorrectly, and yet you're still insisting your point hasn't changed. That is spin. That is cheap rhetoric to avoid responsibility for your own post. That is a juvenile reaction to getting called out.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
besada said:
Your point was that DudeAbides was rewarding Republicans. You changed that point directly above, and admitted you'd read his post incorrectly, and yet you're still insisting your point hasn't changed. That is spin. That is cheap rhetoric to avoid responsibility for your own post. That is a juvenile reaction to getting called out.
Click to expand...


I said "people like the Dude." I misunderstood that the Dude was not talking about himself. I admitted my mistake, but I still stand by my point. That is not spin at all. Spin is when you don't admit a mistake and instead try to make it seem like you meant something else. I still mean what I said, but it does not pertain to DudeAbides. I apologize to you and the world for this horrendous mistake, but I still think not voting is the most ridiculous thing anyone can do. I completely embrace that post and my subsequent posts.
 
B

besada

Banned
http://www.propublica.org/article/o...erstanding-alecs-influence-on-your-state-laws

Interesting article about ALEC.

Following the steps we lay out may reveal some interesting connections. Last month, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel political columnist Daniel Bice looked into an obscure ALEC-approved bill to tax chewing tobacco by weight rather than price. The ALEC model legislation calls this a “fairness” issue, noting that “taxes that create a consumer preference within a product category impede free market commerce.” It does not note that Altria, the parent company of Philip Morris and a member of ALEC’s private enterprise board, sells pricier “premium” brands of chewing tobacco and stands to benefit from the tax change.
Click to expand...
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
jwluther said:
Another Bidenism:

Biden welcomes Gabby Giffords to the "cracked head club"

Really? And you folks were worried about Palin being VP?
Click to expand...

I can see the kind of valued contributions you're going to make.

We all are very aware that Biden says stupid stuff all the time. However, putting his foot in his mouth isn't really equivalent to someone debatably being an uninformed dunce.

But hey, keep pounding away at stupid things Biden says, you'll prove liberal hypocrisy sooner or later.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
Byakuya769 said:
But hey, keep pounding away at stupid things Biden says, you'll prove liberal hypocrisy sooner or later.
Click to expand...
How was what he said stupid?
How was that a gaffe?

Do people really want politicians that talk even less like a human being?
 
L

LM4sure

Banned
aronnov reborn said:
so are we going to hit the 9th day of the stock market slide? First time since the Cater Days if so.. another historic event....
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's pretty exciting. I'm glad I've been shorting stocks all along!! PROFIT! $$$$$
 
A

Arrowgigantic

Member
Also, Biden's comment was not offensive. He had his skull opened twice to repair aneurysms in the 80s. He almost died the first time-- he got last rites from a priest.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
LM4sure said:
That’s extremely offensive. What a dick! I still can’t fathom how he’s been so successful in politics when he makes these types of offensive comments so frequently.
Click to expand...


Did he say it to her or to other people?
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
aronnov reborn said:
so are we going to hit the 9th day of the stock market slide? First time since the Cater Days if so.. another historic event....
Click to expand...

What's your take on the market reaction? What are the underlying factors? How would like them to be solved?
 
A

aronnov reborn

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
GOP agenda for 2011: damage economy as much as possible (see: FAA bill idling ~70,000 construction workers and furloughing thousands more; slash other spending as much as possible; oppose all jobs bills).
Click to expand...

Wouldn't have happened if Dems would have just cut the 16 million... yeah that's right.. ONLY 16 fricken million in proposed cuts the republicans recommended.. but nope... so now we have this.

GhaleonEB said:
GOP agenda for 2012: Point out how shitty the economy is, blame Obama.

Will it work? Dunno. Obama will be tough to defeat. But he'll be running into very strong economic headwinds.
Click to expand...

hmmm.. how much debt for a stimulus that didn't work? Oh wait it saved jobs that would have been lost.. well i just didn't jack off and now a kitten will live.

what's the unemployment at? (even with the stimulus that we had to have) a 9 day skid on the stock market... first since Carter? yeah... repubs have damaged this economy. I sure hope the voters can see through the conservative bull-crap.
 
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