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[reilo]

The issue for me isn't sustainability. It's productivity. Government workers are less productive than their private counterparts, which is why I think private employment is more important than public employment, as far as the economy is concerned.

It's amazing the bullshit people will tell themselves to oppose government funded jobs.

Then again, this is the samr type of thinking that translates very well into the belief that welfare recipients are lazy, too.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I don't know if this has been posted.

Congress fucking fails.

 

[TacticalFox88]

I don't know if this has been posted.

Congress fucking fails.

............Son of a bitch. And I bet the right will spin this as "See!? We shouldn't have raised the debt ceiling!" like the dumbasses they are.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

I don't know if this has been posted.

[IMG/]http://i51.tinypic.com/14xnw4i.jpg[/IMG]

Congress fucking fails.

GOP, DEM and Obama failed all in a pathetic way. That's for sure. But Tea party got the special price of "bastards inside who don't care a damn about the country".

 

[SlipperySlope]

That has to be the biggest pile of horseshit I've read from you.

This is common sense. What, with the unions, vacation time, etc. Hard to fire. It all leads to less productivity.

But anyway, a quick Google.
http://www.tmgov.org/_blog/TMGov_Blog/post/IT_Productivity_Gap_Public_vs_Private_Sector/

http://www.businessofgovernment.org/blog/productivity-vs-performance-measures

Seems the government conveniently stopped tracking it in 1996. But at that time, private productivity was higher than public productivity, and growing at a faster rate too.


I mean, really, it's common sense.

 

[A Human Becoming]

............Son of a bitch. And I bet the right will spin this as "See!? We shouldn't have raised the debt ceiling!" like the dumbasses they are.

And now Washington will be pivoting towards job creation after (most likely) cutting over 1.8 million of them. What a bunch of bullshit. If a Republican was in the oval office Congress Repubs wouldn't give a shit about the debt ceiling (besides Tea Partiers), just like how they didn't give a shit about it when Bush was president. As posted here before, Bush added more to the debt than Obama. Obama should have invoked the 14th Amendment than sign that POS legislation into law. Spending gets an economy out of a recession, not cutting.

And on top of all this, we're going to be losing millions of dollars each day as the FAA stays shut down.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

And now Washington will be pivoting towards job creation after (most likely) cutting over 1.8 million of them. What a bunch of bullshit. If a Republican was in the oval office Congress Repubs wouldn't give a shit about the debt ceiling (besides Tea Partiers), just like how they didn't give a shit about it when Bush was president. As posted here before, Bush added more to the debt than Obama. Obama should have invoked the 14th Amendment than sign that POS legislation into law. Spending gets an economy out of a recession, not cutting.

And on top of all this, we're going to be losing millions of dollars each day as the FAA stays shut down.

It's like we didn't learn anything from Hoover or FDR

vacation time

Heaven forbid!

 

[reilo]

This is common sense. What, with the unions, vacation time, etc. Hard to fire. It all leads to less productivity.

... except that every international study done in regards to this topic shows that our European brethren are more productive because of unions, more vacation time, job stability, etc.

You are so full of shit I am surprised you are capable of seeing where you walk.

 

[PhoenixDark]

So would that make Obama's first term equivalent to Halo 2?

Makes more sense than it should actually.

Vastly overrated sequel to a good game disappoints masses?

 

[Vicetrailia]

This is common sense. What, with the unions, vacation time, etc. Hard to fire. It all leads to less productivity.

But anyway, a quick Google.
http://www.tmgov.org/_blog/TMGov_Blog/post/IT_Productivity_Gap_Public_vs_Private_Sector/

http://www.businessofgovernment.org/blog/productivity-vs-performance-measures

Seems the government conveniently stopped tracking it in 1996. But at that time, private productivity was higher than public productivity, and growing at a faster rate too.


I mean, really, it's common sense.

mmmmm lol, you crack me up. Oh lord vacation time!

 

[ToxicAdam]

and also who in their right mind believes the government doesn't create sustainable jobs...

People

Maybe you missed it

Spoiler

no you didn't you're just being obtuse

but they managed to pass legislation [WAS] potentially detrimental to the economy by holding the debt ceiling hostage. All of this by controlling 1/3 of the government. It's fucked.

key word

Have you seen one piece of legislation come out of the Republican-controlled house that is geared towards job creation?

HR 1229, 1230 and 1231

 

[StevieP]

How did anti-union sentiment gain so much traction in North America? I see it very prevalent here in Canada as well, sadly.

 

[speculawyer]

The issue for me isn't sustainability. It's productivity. Government workers are less productive than their private counterparts, which is why I think private employment is more important than public employment, as far as the economy is concerned.

That is merely right-wing faith-based dogma. Government is bad. Always. Government is useless. Of course this means they are shitting on soldiers and first responders. So the cognitive dissonance immediately fires up and they create some sort of exception for them.


Facts just don't matter. Just follow the dogma. Never mind that medicare with its army of low-paid government workers is a far far more efficient than a private healthcare business with its multi-million executive comp packages and its millions spent on marketing.


The fact is that private business is more efficient for most things but for many things, the government can do a better job. But that simple fact is far far too nuanced for many to handle. It is much easier to say "Government bad" and have a few cognitive dissonance loopholes that are ignored. So they go with that.

 

[DasRaven]

This is common sense. What, with the unions, vacation time, etc. Hard to fire. It all leads to less productivity.

But anyway, a quick Google.
http://www.tmgov.org/_blog/TMGov_Blog/post/IT_Productivity_Gap_Public_vs_Private_Sector/

http://www.businessofgovernment.org/blog/productivity-vs-performance-measures

Seems the government conveniently stopped tracking it in 1996. But at that time, private productivity was higher than public productivity, and growing at a faster rate too.


I mean, really, it's common sense.

The first article is about the slow adoption of modern IT in government. That's not that surprising considering the higher standards of security and tolerance that Federal purchases have to meet. The second is more on topic, but draws no conclusions other than "they should self-audit more and be more transparent." I agree, but that doesn't mean that no one is auditing them. For example [ LINK ]

BTW: My citation request contained links to counter-examples including this easy-to-read graph

Check out those inflection points!

 

[dave is ok]

Vastly overrated sequel to a good game disappoints masses?

Big disappointment, horrible ending. Good online community

 

[Puddles]

11. Who do you think is more responsible for the debt ceiling agreement? Do you think Barack Obama and the Democrats in Congress are more responsible for that agreement, or do you think the Republicans in Congress are more responsible for that agreement?

Aug. 1
2011
Obama/Democrats in Congress 34%
Republicans in Congress 43%
Both equally (vol.) 18%
Neither (vol.) 2%
No opinion 4%
​

You'd think the GOP would take a hit due to this bill passing. But we all know that ain't happening.

The GOP look shitty in this poll overall. So honestly why won't they take a hit next year at the ballot box?

The most important thing in that poll is that Obama/Democrats in Congress + Both equally adds up to a higher number than Republicans in Congress.

I'd bet that most of that 43% who blame Republicans in Congress were already planning to vote Democrat. But as long as that number doesn't even add up to a plurality, the Republicans won't take a huge political hit for this.

The fact that ONLY 43% of those polled blame Republicans for this mess shows that our media did a piss-poor job reporting on it. The number should be 100% minus crazies.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Big disappointment, horrible ending. Good online community

I'm not sure I'd say Obama has a good online community.

Tons of haters.

It's like we didn't learn anything from Hoover or FDR

I don't have extensive knowledge about the New Deal, but from my understanding the millions of jobs created to build infrastructure was a major reason the US got out of the Great Depression. Right now the US is ranked 23rd in the world for infrastructure, so it would have been an opportune time to improve it again.

 

[Cyan]

Seems the government conveniently stopped tracking it in 1996. But at that time, private productivity was higher than public productivity, and growing at a faster rate too.


I mean, really, it's common sense.

The biggest driver of productivity growth is technology. Unsurprisingly, the source you cite attributes the difference in productivity growth to an "IT gap" rather than to unions and vacation time.

I mean, that same source mentions private sector productivity growth of 1.5% a year. Where do you think that growth comes from? Take a moment and actually think about this. Do people become 1.5% more productive every year because they have less vacation time?

 

[Chichikov]

Vastly overrated sequel to a good game disappoints masses?

MGS 2?

Spoiler

YES! LET'S GET GAMING SIDE FANBOYISM UP IN THIS BITCH!

 

[daedalius]

The issue for me isn't sustainability. It's productivity. Government workers are less productive than their private counterparts, which is why I think private employment is more important than public employment, as far as the economy is concerned.

Oh, if you could only see how much time I spend 'working' at my 'private sector' job.

 

[Hitokage]

The biggest driver of productivity growth is technology. Unsurprisingly, the source you cite attributes the difference in productivity growth to an "IT gap" rather than to unions and vacation time.

I mean, that same source mentions private sector productivity growth of 1.5% a year. Where do you think that growth comes from? Take a moment and actually think about this. Do people become 1.5% more productive every year because they have less vacation time?

This calls for a "Zero downtime Infinite productivity" pic.

 

[aronnov reborn]

And now Washington will be pivoting towards job creation after (most likely) cutting over 1.8 million of them. What a bunch of bullshit. If a Republican was in the oval office Congress Repubs wouldn't give a shit about the debt ceiling (besides Tea Partiers), just like how they didn't give a shit about it when Bush was president. As posted here before, Bush added more to the debt than Obama. Obama should have invoked the 14th Amendment than sign that POS legislation into law. Spending gets an economy out of a recession, not cutting.

And on top of all this, we're going to be losing millions of dollars each day as the FAA stays shut down.

While true and i agree that spending has been out of control since 2000, bush was in office 8 years... Obama is at 3 now?

Bush increased the debt by about 4.5 trillion in 8 years
Obama's at 4 trillion in 3 years....

no matter the party the debt has to quit.... only bad part is you're a terrorist if you believe in Dave Ramsey' balancing the budget.... or so says Mr. Biden.

 

[aronnov reborn]

Oh, if you could only see how much time I spend 'working' at my 'private sector' job.

If only your example was the majority.

 

[dave is ok]

I'm not sure I'd say Obama has a good online community.

Tons of haters.

'Robust' online community. There we go

 

[reilo]

While true and i agree that spending has been out of control since 2000, bush was in office 8 years... Obama is at 3 now?

Bush increased the debt by about 4.5 trillion in 8 years
Obama's at 4 trillion in 3 years....

no matter the party the debt has to quit.... only bad part is you're a terrorist if you believe in Dave Ramsey' balancing the budget.... or so says Mr. Biden.

I'd get your numbers straight, fyi.

 

[NullPointer]

Vastly overrated sequel to a good game disappoints masses?

Doesn't match up at all to the beta footage.
An enemy prophet is assassinated.
Covenant civil war where former Elites are replaced by idiot Brutes with all the political power.
Ends with an unsatisfying cliffhanger and you have to buy the sequel to "finish the fight".

I'm sure there are more parallels to find ;P

This calls for a "Zero downtime Infinite productivity" pic.

And here I thought we invested in society and technology to improve the human condition. Guess I'm just a dreamer.

 

[Chichikov]

While true and i agree that spending has been out of control since 2000

Even with the wars, that's hardly true.
What have been out of control is the revenue.

Not to say that we couldn't or shouldn't cut a whole mess of things, in defense and other areas.
But it's important to remember how we got to this mess.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Doesn't match up at all to the beta footage.
An enemy prophet is assassinated.
Covenant civil war where former Elites are replaced by idiot Brutes with all the political power.
Ends with an unsatisfying cliffhanger and you have to buy the sequel to "finish the fight".

I'm sure there are more parallels to find ;P


And here I thought we invested in society and technology to improve the human condition.

So Obama's second term will be Halo 3?
"Wake me when you need me"
Third term!?

 

[aronnov reborn]

I'd get your numbers straight, fyi.

please enlighten me... was the national debt not:

5,674,178,209,886.86 in 2000

was the national debt not:

10,024,724,896,912.49 or a hair more in 2008

is the current national debt not:

14,349,665,697,280.91

Please advise

 

[reilo]

please enlighten me... was the national debt not:

5,674,178,209,886.86 in 2000

was the national debt not:

10,024,724,896,912.49 or a hair more in 2008

is the current national debt not:

14,349,665,697,280.91

Please advise

You should learn a thing or two about fiscal budgets and when they are enacted.

 

[besada]

Keep in mind that IT improvements require large initial outlays, which require increased year to year government budgets, which require sign offs by the government, which is one of the factors that keep government workers behind the times in terms of technology.

You'll find the same sort of "behind the times" technology issues in small businesses that can't afford the initial outlays, as well as large hospitals, that require multiple rounds of board sign offs. I continue to be astonished at how backwards even big, modern hospitals are regarding IT.

 

[Particle Physicist]

HR 1229, 1230 and 1231

Are those all offshore drilling bills?

 

[TacticalFox88]

please enlighten me... was the national debt not:

5,674,178,209,886.86 in 2000

was the national debt not:

10,024,724,896,912.49 or a hair more in 2008

is the current national debt not:

14,349,665,697,280.91

Please advise

The deficit and debt exploded because of the RECESSION and people being unemployed, therefore lowering tax revenue and the fact that Bush already passed a budget for the year of the first year of Obama's term, so there wasn't much he could do.

 

[A Human Becoming]

While true and i agree that spending has been out of control since 2000, bush was in office 8 years... Obama is at 3 now?

Bush increased the debt by about 4.5 trillion in 8 years
Obama's at 4 trillion in 3 years....

no matter the party the debt has to quit.... only bad part is you're a terrorist if you believe in Dave Ramsey' balancing the budget.... or so says Mr. Biden.

I was referring to this graph when I said that.

It is only projected for Obama, but where are you getting 4 trillion from? Is this graph projecting he will have dropped 3 trillion in spending?

EDIT: I see where you're getting the 4 trillion from. I agree with the responses given to your statement.

 

[mckmas8808]

Even with the wars, that's hardly true.
What have been out of control is the revenue.

Not to say that we couldn't or shouldn't cut a whole mess of things, in defense and other areas.
But it's important to remember how we got to this mess.

WHOA! Do you have a chart for revenue over the same period of time?

 

[reilo]

I was referring to this graph when I said that.

http://i56.tinypic.com/14ufc6r.gif[/IMG

It is only projected for Obama, but where are you getting 4 trillion from? Is this graph projecting he will have dropped 3 trillion in spending?[/QUOTE]
He literally looked at what the public debt was in January 2001, compared it to January 2009, and then compared it to what it is now. Hence why I told him to look up FY budgeting.

 

[gcubed]

Brewers doing juuuust fine for themselves. We can't all be bandwagoners.

hell no, i was one of the 10,000 people that actually showed up to Phillies games 10 years ago. Enjoying being on top

 

[ToxicAdam]

Silver lining in last months jobs report

Lockheed Martin was one of five major companies that were responsible for 57 percent of July’s layoffs, according to a new report from payroll processor ADP.

The four other main offenders were Merck, Borders, Cisco Systems, and Boston Scientific. Borders, for instance, struggled to compete against online powerhouses such as Amazon.com.

It appears that, instead of being hit by the general economic downturn, most of the companies stumbled due to issues with their internal operations, The Los Angeles Times reports.

John A. Challenger, chief executive of the consulting firm, noted, “A casual observer certainly might conclude that the wheels just fell off the recovery wagon.”

Smaller businesses, on the other hand, appear to be performing well when it comes to job growth.

Companies with fewer than 50 employees added 58,000 jobs nationwide last month, while businesses with 50 to 500 workers hired 47,000 people, the study reveals.

Only 9,000 new positions were at large firms with more than 500 staffers. Small businesses have been amping up hiring for nearly two years, according to ADP.

Link

Next time someone tells you we need to lower taxes for large corporations for job creation, slap them in the face.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Silver lining in last months jobs report



Link

Next time someone tells you we need to lower taxes for large corporations for job creation, slap them in the face.

What the fuck? Aren't they one of the biggest government contractors? Jesus christ.

 

[NullPointer]

Next time someone tells you we need to lower taxes for large corporations for job creation, slap them in the face.

With pleasure.

 

[besada]

Next time someone tells you we need to lower taxes for large corporations for job creation, slap them in the face.

I think that's a given, considering who you're talking to

Anecdotally, what I've been seeing is that the jobs are coming from smaller companies, in some cases new, small companies. And sadly, I'm still looking every day, although I have a good shot at an amazing new job if the interview next week goes well.

 

[Chichikov]

WHOA! Do you have a chart for revenue over the same period of time?

 

[SlipperySlope]

The first article is about the slow adoption of modern IT in government. That's not that surprising considering the higher standards of security and tolerance that Federal purchases have to meet. The second is more on topic, but draws no conclusions other than "they should self-audit more and be more transparent." I agree, but that doesn't mean that no one is auditing them. For example [ LINK ]

BTW: My citation request contained links to counter-examples including this easy-to-read graph

Check out those inflection points!

That productivity line is total productivity. Those other two lines, public and private, are compensation, not productivity.

Edit - BTW, where's federal?

Edit 2 - Thus, the graph doesn't counter my argument.

 

[Jeels]

I'm sure we can look forward to a hard-hitting article on the wealth disparity between Qatar's oil barons and the various workers that they import.

So because there are bad things in their own neck of the woods, an international news organization can't bring to light the hardships of others?

 

[reilo]

That productivity line is total productivity. Those other two lines, public and private, are compensation, not productivity.

Edit - BTW, where's federal?

Edit 2 - Thus, the graph doesn't counter my argument.

Wait a minute. You started the argument. There's nothing to counter because the burden of proof is on you.

Someone with a logical fallacy as their username should know this. You haven't provided a shred of evidence to support your argument. I will repeat it just in case: the burden of proof is on you.

 

[Veritas_]

What the fuck? Aren't they one of the biggest government contractors? Jesus christ.

Defense cuts may hurt Lockheed-Martin

According to the article, Lockheed-Martin makes 84% of its sales to the US government. Considering the recent defunding of the F-22 program in the 2010 budget and other potential cuts such as the F-35 JSF it would make sense that they are downsizing now.

 

[SlipperySlope]

Wait a minute. You started the argument. There's nothing to counter because the burden of proof is on you.

Someone with a logical fallacy as their username should know this. You haven't provided a shred of evidence to support your argument. I will repeat it just in case: the burden of proof is on you.

I supplied two links.

Edit - Not my fault that the government stopped reporting these numbers in 1996. This stuff is common sense though. How can you guys claim that companies overwork employees, and still claim that the government keeps up with them in productivity? You guys defeat your own argument.

 

[StevieP]

Defense cuts may hurt Lockheed-Martin

According to the article, Lockheed-Martin makes 84% of its sales to the US government. Considering the recent defunding of the F-22 program in the 2010 budget and other potential cuts such as the F-35 JSF it would make sense that they are downsizing now.

Cuts of any kind cost jobs. Always have, always will. Who are the "job killers", again?

 

[reilo]

I supplied two links.

And people went over this: those links provided no proof to support your theory. In fact, one of them was almost completely irrelevant to the point at hand! Your strongest argument so far has been "it's common sense" -- which basically amounts to your opinion.

Edit - Not my fault that the government stopped reporting these numbers in 1996. This stuff is common sense though. How can you guys claim that companies overwork employees, and still claim that the government keeps up with them in productivity? You guys defeat your own argument.

lol what a joke.

 

[SlipperySlope]

lol what a joke.

Disputing something that is common sense is a joke.