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[manipulate]

I think to a large extent the line drawn between "social" and "economic" issues is artificial. There's obviously a strong relationship between them and it all basically comes down to the question of 'what kind of society do you want to be living in'. In that sense, it doesn't seem very coherent to me to favour inclusive social policies while simultaneously promoting economic policies that are harshly stratifying

edit: And a lot of the time 'pragmatism' yields to what basically boils down to 'might is right'. I can't begin to understand how that's remotely 'pragmatic'. Policies that are designed to concentrate wealth are the opposite of what I think the vast majority would hold to be 'pragmatic' - that is, maximising the wealth and prosperity of the maximum amount of citizenry

 

[scorcho]

I'm ashamed to admit I had a giant erection while reading this passage -

"If you can't define a winning exit strategy for the American people, where we somehow come out ahead, then we're wasting our money, and we're wasting our strategic resources," Huntsman told Esquire as part of a long profile in its August issue. "It's a tribal state, and it always will be. Whether we like it or not, whenever we withdraw from Afghanistan, whether it's now or years from now, we'll have an incendiary situation... Should we stay and play traffic cop? I don't think that serves our strategic interests."

Huntsman also said that he wouldn't have intervened in Libya — "We just can't afford it" — and would seek to make serious cuts in the military's budget. "If you can't find anything there to cut, you're not looking hard enough."

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/jon-huntsman-afghanistan-5924855

 

[gcubed]

I'm ashamed to admit I had a giant erection while reading this passage -



http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/jon-huntsman-afghanistan-5924855

Why? This is the same shit every candidate says then once they get in power they love war. Its beyond time to stop listening to politicians on war strategy because its always the same

 

[scorcho]

Why? This is the same shit every candidate says then once they get in power they love war. Its beyond time to stop listening to politicians on war strategy because its always the same

Oh you - let me be teased! He's speaking to my soul.

 

[LosDaddie]

'sup, PoliGAF.

Nice OP there, PL.

 

[Kosmo]

I'm ashamed to admit I had a giant erection while reading this passage -



http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/jon-huntsman-afghanistan-5924855

Basically the same thing Gary Johnson in a recent interview: http://garyjohnson.nashownotes.com/

In short, if leave Afghanistan now, there will be problems and if we leave in 10 years, there will be problems, so why waste 10 years of military resources to get to the same position we are in now?

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Cool OP, guys. Truly. Also, the top ten posters from last thread:

Despite his ban, eznark still had the third most posts.

I would have overtaken him if not for losing my laptop to repair-shop incompetence for two weeks. Onward and upward!

ToxicAdam: Get a smartphone.

I think to a large extent the line drawn between "social" and "economic" issues is artificial. There's obviously a strong relationship between them and it all basically comes down to the question of 'what kind of society do you want to be living in'. In that sense, it doesn't seem very coherent to me to favour inclusive social policies while simultaneously promoting economic policies that are harshly stratifying

I think you're right in saying that the distinction between social and economic issues is somewhat artificial, but to offer a limited defense of libertarian ideals, the idea that we should maximize individual liberty can produce social inclusion and economic stratification, and they don't necessarily view the latter as undesirable.

 

[Clevinger]

Mitch Daniels.
*Daniels called for a truce on social issues.

Which he broke for a non-existent presidential run.

 

[Jackson50]

I'm ashamed to admit I had a giant erection while reading this passage -



http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/jon-huntsman-afghanistan-5924855

Was it incidental, or was the article causal? Admittedly, it gives me an erection if only because no politician would actually submit the truth so bluntly during a campaign. Huntsman is correct, of course.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Which he broke for a non-existent presidential run.

Did he? As far as I remember he wasn't out in force lobbying for the bill; it came to his desk and he signed it. I don't think calling for a "truce" on social issues would have required him to veto any socially conservative legislation he encountered.

Was it incidental, or was the article causal? Admittedly, it gives me an erection if only because no politician would actually submit the truth so bluntly during a campaign. Huntsman is correct, of course.

Are we all just going to start talking about our erections now?

 

[scorcho]

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2077943,00.html

good commentary from Fareed on the intellectual bankruptcy in modern American conservatism.

Consider the debates over the economy. The Republican prescription is to cut taxes and slash government spending — then things will bounce back. Now, I would like to see lower rates in the context of tax simplification and reform, but what is the evidence that tax cuts are the best path to revive the U.S. economy? Taxes — federal and state combined — as a percentage of GDP are at their lowest level since 1950. The U.S. is among the lowest taxed of the big industrial economies. So the case that America is grinding to a halt because of high taxation is not based on facts but is simply a theoretical assertion. The rich countries that are in the best shape right now, with strong growth and low unemployment, are ones like Germany and Denmark, neither one characterized by low taxes.

Many Republican businessmen have told me that the Obama Administration is the most hostile to business in 50 years. Really? More than that of Richard Nixon, who presided over tax rates that reached 70%, regulations that spanned whole industries, and who actually instituted price and wage controls?

which dovetails nicely with the NYT's editorial on the New Hampshire debate -

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/15/opinion/15wed1.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Monday’s Republican presidential debate in New Hampshire — full of historical error, economic obfuscation, avoidance of hard truths and even outright bigotry — was a feast for connoisseurs of political dysfunction. Desperate to avoid being outflanked on the right, the seven candidates tried so hard to outdo each other in finding fault with President Obama that they seemed to forget that they are competing for the same party nomination. By evening’s end, they had melted into an indistinguishable mass of privatizing, tax-cutting opponents of Shariah law.

Was it incidental, or was the article causal? Admittedly, it gives me an erection if only because no politician would actually submit the truth so bluntly during a campaign. Huntsman is correct, of course.

waiting for the entire interview/article to come out to see the quote in a larger context.

 

[DasRaven]

Which he broke for a non-existent presidential run.

Yes, which is exactly why i've put him in the VP slot under a gay man. Exploit his strengths, limit his damage.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2077943,00.html
good commentary from Fareed on the intellectual bankruptcy in modern American conservatism.

If you've not reading Zakaria and/or watching/listening to his podcast, you're cheating yourself. I just ordered Post-American World 2.0 Monday.

 

[Jackson50]

I would have overtaken him if not for losing my laptop to repair-shop incompetence for two weeks. Onward and upward!

Excuses. That's all we ever read from you. And it is a shame. You had great potential.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Excuses. That's all we ever read from you. And it is a shame. You had great potential.

We'll always have Libya.

 

[scorcho]

Are we all just going to start talking about our erections now?

yes. thankfully i'm working from home today.

 

[Jeels]

A Rick Perry/Michelle Bachman ticket would be hilariously fun to watch.

 

[Evlar]

Weiner's resigning, according to NYTimes.

 

[ElectricThunder]

Nice to see a new thread, it'll be interesting to see what shakes down in the life of this one.

 

[Tamanon]

At least CNN found their new host.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Weiner's resigning, according to NYTimes.

That saddens me. I'd hoped that he would stay on and try to make the forceful argument that his personal failings don't make him incapable of doing his job. So much for that.

At least CNN found their new host.

Parker Spitzer Weiner? I hardly know 'er!

 

[scorcho]

damn. i owe some people money.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Sidebar: NeoGAF Live Thread.

I don't remember who wrote this little thing, but if you use Chrome, this totally improves the poligaf experience.

 

[Skiptastic]

Did he? As far as I remember he wasn't out in force lobbying for the bill; it came to his desk and he signed it. I don't think calling for a "truce" on social issues would have required him to veto any socially conservative legislation he encountered.

I'm a well known Mitch apologist, so you have to take my thoughts with a grain of salt, but this is exactly what I would have noted.

Weiner's resigning, according to NYTimes.

Hopefully he can repair his marriage and find a way to put this behind him. I may not have found his tact to be the best, but I wouldn't have wished this fiasco on him and his wife.

 

[eznark]

What a fool Weiner was to think he could hang on. He drew this out longer than he needed to which I think hurts his inevitable return to politics in 2014. As soon as the leadership turned their backs on him, he should have resigned.

The attempt to defraud (I think that is probably too strong, but hey, first post in the new thread!) his constituents by seeking a leave due to an unnamed medical condition was an absolute joke.

 

[LQX]

And the Weiner is out. Good, what a damn idiot.

 

[Vilix]

Houston's KTRH, 740AM just reported that Anthony Weiner is telling friends he plans to resign.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Fred Karger & Mitch Daniels.
*No Norquist/ATR signatories.
*Both socially moderate. Karger's gay & jewish, Daniels called for a truce on social issues.
*Daniels I believe could get the reticent GOP onboard for real tax reform.
*Karger is pro-legalization & taxation of marijuana & anti-nation building.

If they were the ticket, I'd be happy for the nation, but likely still vote for Obama.

You must really love Obama, then. These seem like your ideal candidates. Would it be nothing more than party politics at that point? Obama will do none of these things while in office, for better or for worse.

 

[Jackson50]

We'll always have Libya.

Yes. Yes, we will (unfortunately).

What a fool Weiner was to think he could hang on. He drew this out longer than he needed to which I think hurts his inevitable return to politics in 2014. As soon as the leadership turned their backs on him, he should have resigned.

The attempt to defraud (I think that is probably too strong, but hey, first post in the new thread!) his constituents by seeking a leave due to an unnamed medical condition was an absolute joke.

Precisely. The moment he lost support of the Democratic leadership, his resignation was inevitable; when they threatened to remove his committee assignments, it was the death knell. Yeah, the leave of absence to seek treatment was farcical.

 

[eznark]

I like that his wife got home and suddenly he resigns.

Somehow I doubt she will get the same treatments as Daniels' wife and Gingrichs' real doll.

 

[empty vessel]

You have read most of empty_vessel's posts? He is not someone who leans left. He is far left. He's not moderate on a global scale, unless you include leftist and rightist terrorist groups, which I guess by a balancing factor would make that work.

Your facts are, not atypically, wrong. I'm a moderate on a global (and, more importantly, rational) scale. For example, I don't endorse savagely killing innocent people for economic gain or for retaliation. Most self-professed "moderates" and "centrists" do. "Moderate" is a term that carries some substance in and of itself in that it conveys restraint--unlike "centrist," which is wholly relative (between two points). Everybody--including Stalin and Hitler--is a centrist given the proper arbitrary points of comparison, so that term is substantively meaningless except to situate a person within two arbitrary poles.

I think some people calling themselves a "moderate" is an abuse of the English language. You would be one such person. I'm certainly left on a global scale, but well within the mainstream. A quintessential moderate, even.

 

[DasRaven]

You must really love Obama, then. These seem like your ideal candidates. Would it be nothing more than party politics at that point? Obama will do none of these things while in office, for better or for worse.

I do have a significant amount of appreciation for our President, yes.

But it wouldn't be party politics, it'd be the fact that Karger/Daniels would have such a small coalition (if any) within their own party that they'd get just as little done in pursuit of their goals.
At least Obama has a reasonable block of the legislature to make policy happen. Same reason the Ron Paul supporters are living in fantasyland. I fully believe he'd sign the bills if they came to him.
But with no constituency to write and push them, they never would. I'm also seriously leery of GOP judicial picks and regulatory capture.

We actually need more Karger and Daniels types in the House and Senate. But I was asked to dream about a GOP executive ticket and I did.

 

[AlteredBeast]

I like that his wife got home and suddenly he resigns.

Somehow I doubt she will get the same treatments as Daniels' wife and Gingrichs' real doll.

Mainly because she doesn't appear to be a complete airhead. It isn't the "poor her" scenario like with Spitzer's wife, it's the "Good on her" scenario of Bill Clinton's wife (she later faded away into obscurity, I think)

 

[Kosmo]

I like that his wife got home and suddenly he resigns.

Somehow I doubt she will get the same treatments as Daniels' wife and Gingrichs' real doll.

I give the marriage 3 months.

I think some people calling themselves a "moderate" is an abuse of the English language. You would be one such person. I'm certainly left on a global scale, but well within the mainstream. A quintessential moderate, even.

Your promotion of wealth redistribution puts you FAR left on any scale - it isn't even close to mainstream.

 

[AlteredBeast]

couldn't someone write a script that would sticky threads as selected by the end user? I doubt that would be impossible. It would be good to stick it to the mods and finally sticky the College Football weekly threads and PoliGAF. For great justice!

 

[Invisible_Insane]

couldn't someone write a script that would sticky threads as selected by the end user? I doubt that would be impossible. It would be good to stick it to the mods and finally sticky the College Football weekly threads and PoliGAF. For great justice!

...or you could just pin the tab.

 

[eznark]

couldn't someone write a script that would sticky threads as selected by the end user? I doubt that would be impossible. It would be good to stick it to the mods and finally sticky the College Football weekly threads and PoliGAF. For great justice!

Jim Tressel knows a guy who can get those threads stickied for you.

...or you could just pin the tab.

Or auto-subscribe to threads you post in and have your subscribed threads page as a bookmark.

 

[Evlar]

Sidebar: NeoGAF Live Thread.

I don't remember who wrote this little thing, but if you use Chrome, this totally improves the poligaf experience.

Doesn't work with the newest-post-first forum settings. Oh well.

 

[DasRaven]

I give the marriage 3 months.

Ban bet? Hillary stayed. Silda stayed. Huma, I believe, will stay as well.
If he'd actually physically cheated, then I might think differently.

 

[Skiptastic]

Ban bet? Hillary stayed. Silda stayed. Huma, I believe, will stay as well.

Complete tangent: stayed is one of the most awkward looking and sounding words. Something about it just feels wrong.

 

[AlteredBeast]

...or you could just pin the tab.

Pin the tab...what do you mean?

 

[Salazar]

Shame about Weiner resigning.

It's not a "finished with politics" deal though, right ?

 

[AlteredBeast]

Shame about Weiner resigning.

It's not a "finished with politics" deal though, right ?

I dont see where else he could go and get elected right now. Probably become a pundit or lobbyist like everyone else...

 

[eznark]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/06/why-anthony-weiner-shouldnt-resign/240535/

JUN 16 2011, 10:10 AM ET

LOL Atlantic

 

[balladofwindfishes]

What a fool Weiner was to think he could hang on. He drew this out longer than he needed to which I think hurts his inevitable return to politics in 2014. As soon as the leadership turned their backs on him, he should have resigned.

The attempt to defraud (I think that is probably too strong, but hey, first post in the new thread!) his constituents by seeking a leave due to an unnamed medical condition was an absolute joke.

His constituents don't care, they liked him even through all this and will probably re-elect him in 2014.

 

[gcubed]

I would have overtaken him if not for losing my laptop to repair-shop incompetence for two weeks. Onward and upward!

ToxicAdam: Get a smartphone.



I think you're right in saying that the distinction between social and economic issues is somewhat artificial, but to offer a limited defense of libertarian ideals, the idea that we should maximize individual liberty can produce social inclusion and economic stratification, and they don't necessarily view the latter as undesirable.

i can't believe i made the top 10, i was banned i think twice in that time frame, and i get so fed up at times with politics that i just leave the thread for a week.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Pin the tab...what do you mean?

Do you use Chrome? Open up the thread you want in a tab, right click on the tab at the top of the screen and click 'pin tab,' and then just leave it open. That's what I do.

Also: Live Thread doesn't show when a post gets edited, so you'll have to refresh to see those.

 

[Salazar]

I dont see where else he could go and get elected right now. Probably become a pundit or lobbyist like everyone else...

I'd play family man for a couple of years and then rumble back.

Edit: "play family man" sounds like the sleazeball act that got him into this mess.

 

[PantherLotus]

Parker Spitzer Weiner? I hardly know 'er!

LOL Joke of the freaking day.

 

[Kosmo]

His constituents don't care, they liked him even through all this and will probably re-elect him in 2014.

Democrats are looking at the bigger picture - he doesn't resign, and they all suffer come 2012. He resigns and they can claim a little bit of the moral high ground saying "Look we made Weiner resign, while Vitter is still there!"

 

[Particle Physicist]

Do you use Chrome? Open up the thread you want in a tab, right click on the tab at the top of the screen and click 'pin tab,' and then just leave it open. That's what I do.

whoa. never knew you could do that.