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[ToxicAdam]

Maybe I missed this being brought up today but I was pretty surprised;
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...tration-to-drop-troop-levels-in-iraq-to-3000/

The GOP is already getting angry about it.

3000 is just the first opening bid. It will be higher, but probably not more than 10k.

I have to say I'm a little surprised that I've seen so many in the media (and in this thread) brush off Rick Perry. He may be a loon, but both the establishment Reps AND the tea baggers love him. It's a very rare combination of support.

I don't think people are brushing him off, they are just saying that it's too early to call him the front-runner. He hasn't been in the public eye long enough to really meet any kind of sustained resistance. Once people start really paying attention to this race, the negative sentiment could snowball on him.

tl;dr still too much uncertainty

 

[jamesinclair]

Gov. Rick Snyder on Tuesday signed into law a stricter, four-year lifetime limit on cash welfare benefits, prompting advocates for the poor to warn that tens of thousands of residents will find themselves without cash assistance on Oct. 1.

The change gives Michigan the Midwest's toughest welfare time limit, according to a survey by The Detroit News. It said there are five-year limits in Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri, Ohio and Wisconsin. Indiana has a two-year limit for adults — but none for children.

http://news.yahoo.com/mich-governor-signs-48-month-welfare-limit-231915012.html

Jesus would never approve of welfare, right christian GOP?

Oh wait.

The Michigan Catholic Conference has objected to the four-year limit. The conference said the effect will be felt for years by society and by children who lose services.

Go team pope.



The game plan has been amazing.

Step 1) Have the extreme wealthy tank the economy with their reckless greedy spending.
Step 2) Follow up by restricting welfare, cutting unions and generally stomping on the working man and the poor.
Step 3) Live like banana republic.

 

[Oblivion]

Where's the :lol emoticon when you need it?

Obama will meet them halfway by offering to shut down the Dept. of Transportation.

 

[Suikoguy]

Yeah, you're in for a semester of shit. The sad thing is that such economic viewpoints are so sharply divided along political lines that even if you utter "a regulation or two is needed", you're gonna get branded as a liberal democrat commie. I can accept a notch or two of free marketeering, but "less regulations" despite wall street collapse leads us to believe that your prof is batshit insane. The real problem is that you can't say any keynesian stuff, and expect your prof to grade you "fairly". Proceed with caution and voice your opinions strongly only if you're willing to battle paper by paper, quiz by quiz and exam by exam. Embrace the inner douche.

The good news is it's multiple choice exam based, no papers.
The bad news, I think she makes the exam.
Also good news, this is my last economics course, as my degree does not specialize in business, only has a basic core, the rest is programming, networking and technology.

Its surprising that someone so ill-informed/deluded is a professor. Seriously, how the fuck is it possible for an economics professor to think that the CRA was responsible for the crisis? Did she ever look at the facts concerning sub-prime loans during that period and who issued them?

Boggles the mind.

It's sad because when it comes to actually teaching, she is pretty good at it. But almost every "book fact" has included libertarian attachments.

Show her this:

http://www.traigerlaw.com/publicati..._llp_cra_foreclosure_study_1-14-08.pdf#page=2

I'll have to look at how the study was done and what data it shows. The Traiger law firm specialized in attacking big corporations. But I can't see how you can even argue with someone who still blames the CRA.

I never took many economics courses because I perceived the field to largely be a 'soft' science where they just argue with each other more than actually prove things and provide substantial useful advice. It seems that nothing has changed.

But it doesn't take a genius to realize that both extremes (total government planning or pure free market mayhem) don't work well. Communism proved the former doesn't work and biological evolution proves the latter isn't so great (with die-offs, entire ecosystem collapses, mass extinctions, etc.) Free markets are clearly the better of the two but they are no panacea.

Yep, I'm with you. There needs to be a well designed mix of free market and regulation.
Humans are not as rational as we like to think. The free market does not do a good enough job taking into account negative externalities. This is evidence enough that we need regulation of some sort. When it comes to production of goods, this is due in large part because of the multiple steps that goods must undergo during production and the detachment between the corporations and those steps.

 

[Oblivion]

I'll have to look at how the study was done and what data it shows. The Traiger law firm specialized in attacking big corporations. But I can't see how you can even argue with someone who still blames the CRA.

The CRA from what I understand, is the law that conservatives like to point to which forced the poor, widdle banks to give out loans to dirty poors, right? Well, even if we agree that that's what caused this mess, don't the banks NOT want those regulations in place? And isn't that what libertarians are supposed to actually want?

 

[PhoenixDark]

Where's the :lol emoticon when you need it?

I mean democrats shouldn't capitulate, not that they won't lol

 

[speculawyer]

The GOP is already getting angry about it.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said reducing the troop presence to 3,000 "would put at risk all the United States has fought for in Iraq."

"The biggest winner of a U.S. decision to move to 3,000 troops in Iraq would the Iranian regime. The ayatollahs would rejoice," he said.

Yeah, the Iranian regime was celebrating when we invaded the country and took out Hussein. That left a power vacuum in the region that the Iranians were all too happy to fill.

FFS Lindsey! People were telling you that Iran would be the big winner of the Iraq war before we even invaded! Why didn't you listen then! You forfeited the right to use that argument.

 

[jamesinclair]

Cant be mad at the republicans anymore.

Not with the shit Nintendo pulled tonight.

WTF is this. Faith in this country AND Japan is near zero right about now.

 

[stressboy]

Cant be mad at the republicans anymore.

Not with the shit Nintendo pulled tonight.

WTF is this. Faith in this country AND Japan is near zero right about now.

I have a games block at work and can't get to the gaming side.. but WTF is that???

 

[jamesinclair]

I have a games block at work and can't get to the gaming side.. but WTF is that???

Its a mockup of Nintendos big announcement tomorrow



Theres a magazine scan showing the real thing (dont ask, banned on gaf) and it looks even worse. Its 1 inch thick at the bottom.

 

[Suikoguy]

Cant be mad at the republicans anymore.

Not with the shit Nintendo pulled tonight.

[IMG.]http://i51.tinypic.com/13yqivc.jpg[/IMG]

WTF is this. Faith in this country AND Japan is near zero right about now.

After DQ10 yesterday, I was not sure my week could be topped in shittyness.

 

[Synth_floyd]

Troops down to 3000? Yay at least something worthy being done by Obama. And LOL at how the commanders are "livid" at that. This is why we have civilian control of the military.

 

[ezekial45]

WTF is this. Faith in this country AND Japan is near zero right about now.

That's hideous. Couldn't they have moved underneath the face buttons? There's clearly some space there. Plus, i'm sure they couldn't streamlined the electronic boards in the system to get a 2nd analog functional, and fit it within the same sized case.

 

[Suikoguy]

Troops down to 3000? Yay at least something worthy being done by Obama. And LOL at how the commanders are "livid" at that. This is why we have civilian control of the military.

Speaking of military, one of the books I'm listening to on my long college commute brought up an interesting discussion and reasoning I plan to type up sometime this week regarding the military and how we got into this mess. Separate thread of course.

 

[SlipperySlope]

So... 300 billion proposal from Obama.

Too small to dent jobs, too small to dent the debt too much. Kind of ho hum either way. May as well just do nothing, but he's trying to save face.

 

[jamesinclair]

So... 300 billion proposal from Obama.

Too small to dent jobs, too small to dent the debt too much. Kind of ho hum either way. May as well just do nothing, but he's trying to save face.

Half are tax cuts.

Because tax cuts work so well.

By Friday it will be 150 billion, tax cuts only.

 

[Measley]

So... 300 billion proposal from Obama.

Too small to dent jobs, too small to dent the debt too much. Kind of ho hum either way. May as well just do nothing, but he's trying to save face.

The proposal could cost $0.99 and the GOP would still oppose it.

 

[reilo]

That's hideous. Couldn't they have moved underneath the face buttons? There's clearly some space there. Plus, i'm sure they couldn't streamlined the electronic boards in the system to get a 2nd analog functional, and fit it within the same sized case.

That's a much better mockup than the real thing looks like, actually. Much better.

 

[Gr1mLock]

so basically news at ten same shit who cares?

 

[Puddles]

What's the issue with that thing? I don't play handhelds, so I don't know what to compare it to. Off the top of my head, the buttons look kinda small, and the analog sticks (nubs?) don't look like they'd be very precise. I doubt I could pull off a shoryuken on that.

 

[reilo]

What's the issue with that thing? I don't play handhelds, so I don't know what to compare it to. Off the top of my head, the buttons look kinda small, and the analog sticks (nubs?) don't look like they'd be very precise. I doubt I could pull off a shoryuken on that.

The outer part that contains the right analog stick is an attachment. That mock-up makes it look seamless whereas the real attachment is hideous.

 

[Black Republican]

the debate tonight shall be fun

 

[speculawyer]

I listened to Fresh Air and they had the lady that wrote 'Top Secret America' on again.

Now that is an area that needs cuts. But they are all too chickenshit to do it because as soon as a terrorist attack happens they'll all fingerpoint.
http://www.npr.org/2011/09/06/140056904/the-top-secret-america-created-after-9-11

The Tea-party folk need to grow a fucking pair and slash that kind of thing instead of constantly picking on old people and poor children.

 

[Puddles]

Lots of people bring up "fraud and waste" when it comes to our "entitlement" programs.

Does anyone have any good studies on this particular subject? Under no circumstances do I want to cut aid to anyone who needs it, but is there a significant amount of fraud and waste that could be reduced?

 

[Plinko]

http://news.yahoo.com/mich-governor-signs-48-month-welfare-limit-231915012.html

Jesus would never approve of welfare, right christian GOP?

Oh wait.



Go team pope.



The game plan has been amazing.

Step 1) Have the extreme wealthy tank the economy with their reckless greedy spending.
Step 2) Follow up by restricting welfare, cutting unions and generally stomping on the working man and the poor.
Step 3) Live like banana republic.

I find it hilarious how badly the public has turned on Snyder since he came into office. He mentioned almost none of this while running, won the election, and is now basically putting in the big-business government model while taking the money out of the public's pocket. It's like he wants to ensure that another republican never wins the Governorship.

 

[Mike M]

That's hideous. Couldn't they have moved underneath the face buttons? There's clearly some space there. Plus, i'm sure they couldn't streamlined the electronic boards in the system to get a 2nd analog functional, and fit it within the same sized case.

What good would that do for pre-existing systems?

 

[RustyNails]

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said reducing the troop presence to 3,000 "would put at risk all the United States has fought for in Iraq."

"The biggest winner of a U.S. decision to move to 3,000 troops in Iraq would the Iranian regime. The ayatollahs would rejoice," he said.

Yeah, the Iranian regime was celebrating when we invaded the country and took out Hussein. That left a power vacuum in the region that the Iranians were all too happy to fill.

I don't understand how this toolbag is on any senate subcommittee that deals with foreign relations. You outline your policy based on America's interests and well being, not based on whether it makes ayatollahs happy or sad.

 

[mj1108]

The game plan has been amazing.

Step 1) Have the extreme wealthy tank the economy with their reckless greedy spending.
Step 2) Follow up by restricting welfare, cutting unions and generally stomping on the working man and the poor.
Step 3) Live like banana republic.

Step 4) Act innocent and blame Obama
Step 5) ????
Step 6) Profit.

 

[gcubed]

I'm still trying to figure out how removing taxes on capital gains helps the middle class income grow. Romney, help me out, I need an explanation

 

[scorcho]

I'm still trying to figure out how removing taxes on capital gains helps the middle class income grow. Romney, help me out, I need an explanation

trickle-down, motherfucka. more money in the hands of job-creators instead of handouts to job-takers.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

I'm still trying to figure out how removing taxes on capital gains helps the middle class income grow. Romney, help me out, I need an explanation

Lobbyist and people who are bent over listening to anything their party tells them.

 

[speculawyer]

I don't understand how this toolbag is on any senate subcommittee that deals with foreign relations. You outline your policy based on America's interests and well being, not based on whether it makes ayatollahs happy or sad.

I think he bases his views more upon what is in Israel's interests. :-/

 

[gcubed]

trickle-down, motherfucka. more money in the hands of job-creators instead of handouts to job-takers.

I don't understand how tricle down economics isn't a joke term in real life, how any person can use it and not get laughed out of a room. Keynesian quickly went there, but its been 30 years of consistent proof that trickle down is pure bullshit

 

[ToxicAdam]

Lots of people bring up "fraud and waste" when it comes to our "entitlement" programs.

Does anyone have any good studies on this particular subject? Under no circumstances do I want to cut aid to anyone who needs it, but is there a significant amount of fraud and waste that could be reduced?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4185605...vernment-watchdog-ids-billions-federal-waste/

direct link to GAO report

Tons of money that can be saved by eliminating overlapping programs.

 

[speculawyer]

I'm still trying to figure out how removing taxes on capital gains helps the middle class income grow. Romney, help me out, I need an explanation

You don't need any reasoning any more. At this point the USA has basically just accepted the "fact" that "tax cuts are always good". It is an article of faith. It is religion.


That is all I can figure. Because we have some 60+ years of post-WW2 history where there is a lot of growth at higher rates. And lately, we have experienced some the worst economic performance in the last 4 years despite having the lowest tax rates in the last 50 years. No matter.

Facts? Irrelevant. Follow the faith, brother. Dogma.




And the exact same thing is true for 'drill, baby, drill'. We have less than 2% of the world's oil reserves. We simply cannot drill our way out of high oil prices. It is economically impossible. Even the hardcore conservative Swift-boat-for-"truth"-funding legendary Texas oil-man T. Boone Pickens is out saying this over and over. He is dismissed as a heretic. Keep the faith, brother. Just drill more and $2/gallon gasoline will return preaches evangelical Bachmann. God will provide.

 

[RustyNails]

I think he bases his views more upon what is in Israel's interests. :-/

If that's the case, he's even more wretched. These neocons are more right wing than Likud.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

I'm still trying to figure out how removing taxes on capital gains helps the middle class income grow. Romney, help me out, I need an explanation

Who has money in the stock market and who people think has money in the stock market is probably vastly different

I wouldn't be surprised if most conservatives (or people in general) greatly overestimate the percentage of wealth in the stock market that is going to old ladies living off utility dividends

 

[mj1108]

trickle-down, motherfucka. more money in the hands of job-creators instead of handouts to job-takers.

Trickle down economics = snake oil

 

[RustyNails]

I can already see GOP reaction to Obama speech. "Obama's answer to create jobs is more needless spending. Didn't we already go through this debate? This administration cannot do anything but spend, spend, spend."

How does WH expect the bill to pass anyway?

 

[thekad]

I can already see GOP reaction to Obama speech. "Obama's answer to create jobs is more needless spending. Didn't we already go through this debate? This administration cannot do anything but spend, spend, spend."

How does WH expect the bill to pass anyway?

They're dumb.

 

[Measley]

Will Obama sell out?

Big Oil: To create jobs, let us drill more

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- With job creation taking center stage in American politics, the oil industry Wednesday made a pitch for drilling more widely. With looser restrictions, the industry says it could deliver 1.4 million new jobs, boost tax rolls by $800 billion, and increase domestic energy production almost 50%.

To hit those numbers, the industry would need to drill off the East and West Coasts, in waters off Florida's Gulf Coast, in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and on most federal public land that's not a national park. These areas are currently off limits to drilling, except for some public land in these regions.

In addition, the industry says it would need approval to build new pipelines to facilitate a doubling of production from Canada's vast oil sands, a halt to the gradual tightening of rules governing shale gas development, and the preservation of favorable tax policies the industry currently enjoys.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/07/news/economy/oil_jobs/index.htm?iid=Lead&hpt=hp_t1

So much BS in one article.

 

[gcubed]

Will Obama sell out?



http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/07/news/economy/oil_jobs/index.htm?iid=Lead&hpt=hp_t1

So much BS in one article.

lets boost tax rolls by removing your unneeded tax breaks.

 

[ToxicAdam]

What is bullshit? That opening up drilling in certain areas would create new jobs and thus more tax revenues?

 

[RustyNails]

What is bullshit? That opening up drilling in certain areas would create new jobs and thus more tax revenues?

But aren't we drilling more in and around North America than any time before in history? Where are the jobs?

 

[Macam]

First you imply I don't know what I'm talking about, now that I'm only disagreeing with you in order to look smart? Dude. Pick one.

Your initial post appeared to contain a common misconception of the stock market, namely that a company's stock price going up directly results in a gain to the company. This is what I and others were disagreeing with. Your eventual answer to my question of how your chain of events worked appeared to confirm that.

If you are in fact saying simply that a stronger investment environment (or an upswing in the cycle) leads to both higher stock prices and to more opportunities for expansion, then yes, I agree. I just wish you'd said that to begin with and saved us both a lot of time!

One can only hope it was the latter, because the original statement as laid out was so blatantly wrong that I had to read it twice just to make sure I read it correctly.

 

[ReBurn]

But aren't we drilling more in and around North America than any time before in history? Where are the jobs?

They're on the internet, of course!

http://www.oilcareers.com/worldwide/

Edit: *Must be willing to relocate out of country. Probably.

 

[ToxicAdam]

But aren't we drilling more in and around North America than any time before in history? Where are the jobs?

North Dakota and Texas are doing pretty well.

Generally speaking, relative state job market conditions in 2010 were similar to those of the recession years of 2008 and 2009: energy and commodity states continued to see their job markets do comparatively well throughout. Areas dominated by federal government employment continued to do well as federal spending surged.

 

[Measley]

What is bullshit? That opening up drilling in certain areas would create new jobs and thus more tax revenues?

But not 1.4 million new jobs.

I'm also leery of giving the oil companies access to more ocean. They tend to spill shit constantly, destroying tourism and fishing industries in the process.

 

[ToxicAdam]

But not 1.4 million new jobs.

Maybe if they would have said create or 'save' 1.4 million jobs, people on the left would buy it.

 

[ReBurn]

Maybe if they would have said create or 'save' 1.4 million jobs, people on the left would buy it.

lol. Yep, if you're working it is probably because some politician saved your job.