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[Measley]

Maybe if they would have said create or 'save' 1.4 million jobs, people on the left would buy it.

Nope.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Nope.

Look at that, more jobs created.

 

[speculawyer]

What is bullshit? That opening up drilling in certain areas would create new jobs and thus more tax revenues?

1.4 million new jobs? That's complete bullshit.

Another thing that is bullshit is pinning non drilling completely on Dems/Obama. Obama moved to open more of the Gulf Mexico right before BP fucked everything up.

To hit those numbers, the industry would need to drill off the East and West Coasts, in waters off Florida's Gulf Coast, in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and on most federal public land that's not a national park. These areas are currently off limits to drilling, except for some public land in these region.

Love that last clause which renders the entire paragraph inoperative . . . This is all true . . . except where it is false. That was not meant as a factual statement. Pretty much all all non-park federal land is open for drilling.

But drilling off California was stopped by the previous GOP governor. Drilling off Florida is prevented by the current Florida GOP governor(Scott). And the Florida GOP governor before him(Crist). And the Florida GOP governor before him (Bush).

But as I've said many times, they should open ANWR.

In addition, the industry says it would need approval to build new pipelines to facilitate a doubling of production from Canada's vast oil sands, a halt to the gradual tightening of rules governing shale gas development, and the preservation of favorable tax policies the industry currently enjoys.

The pipeline is approved. "Halt to the gradual tightening of rules" is so vague to be meaningless. And that last one . . . LOL . . . apparently it isn't socialism if you give subsidies to the richest industry on the planet. Fucking amazing.

North Dakota and Texas are doing pretty well.

Find me the GOP candidate that can inject hundreds of billions or barrels of oil beneath other states and I'll vote for them.

BTW, those states doing better is a ZERO SUM GAME. They only reason they are doing better is because the price of oil went up 5X in the last 10 years . . . that causes everyone else to suffer. If the price of oil were magically drop to $20 barrel (perhaps a massive discover in Kerpleckistan) then all those new oil jobs in North Dakota would instantly disappear because that oil is only profitable at today's higher prices.

 

[ToxicAdam]

That's all I'm saying, "certain" projects should be allowed to open and they will create new jobs. Who really knows what that final number would be. Depending on the location of the project it could create entire new small economies built around a plant/facility.

They only reason they are doing better is because the price of oil went up 5X in the last 10 years

They're doing well because demand hasn't dramatically slackened.

 

[speculawyer]

That's all I'm saying, "certain" projects should be allowed to open and they will create new jobs. Who really knows what that final number would be. Depending on the location of the project it could create entire new small economies built around a plant/facility.

Here is a post from an oilman on the subject:

And to add one little bit to Rocky's comments: 1.5 million jobs. In their dreams. First, every oil field hand with any experience has a job today if he wants it. And there are quite a few working in the oil fields that don't have sufficient experience. I know first hand...I'm running into them more often. And they scare the heck out of me. So the 1.5 million jobs will go to folks who currently have no experience. And who's going to pay for that training and how long will it take? The typical engineer/geologist/geophysicist has 6 years of college and 4 to 5 years of on the job training before they are typically of much use. That's over 10 years for the prospect generators and well designers to come into play. The more blue collar jobs don't require that much lead time especially for cross over backgrounds. But that doesn't matter: won't need those drilling hands, truck drivers, welders, etc, until all those new prospects are generated. And that won't happen until the new prospect generators come on line...in 10 years or so.

Of course, we might still have a drilling boom of sorts. Just like we're seeing today. And just like the boom of the late 70's when the rig count jumped to over 4,600...more than twice what we have today. Unfortunately that activity didn't correspond to a proportional increase in production: many of those rigs were drilling wells that had almost no chance of finding oil/NG. Greed and too much capex ruled the day back then.

They're doing well because demand hasn't dramatically slackened.

Demand for oil in the USA has slowed down. But it is not like that matters since we import 2/3s of our oil. US demand could drop in half and they'd still have jobs as long as the price held.

 

[jamesinclair]

You folks need to follow the hurricane/weather thread.

Rick Perry has no chance in hell of winning anything if all the weather reports are true. If no tropical storm hits Texas this year....

Extended drought = massive job losses, killing his little "miracle"

On top of that, Texas is going to need massive aid, which goes against his whole "let secede"

Honestly, this country should dump Texas now so we dont have to dig them out of their dry dusty hole next year and use our terrible fedbucks to do so.

Without a storm, some towns will start running out of water this year, thanks to their lack of planning and regulation. And then theyre going to come crying for the government to save them. It won't be pretty.

 

[gcubed]

You folks need to follow the hurricane/weather thread.

Rick Perry has no chance in hell of winning anything if all the weather reports are true. If no tropical storm hits Texas this year....

Extended drought = massive job losses, killing his little "miracle"

On top of that, Texas is going to need massive aid, which goes against his whole "let secede"

Honestly, this country should dump Texas now so we dont have to dig them out of their dry dusty hole next year and use our terrible fedbucks to do so.

Without a storm, some towns will start running out of water this year, thanks to their lack of planning and regulation. And then theyre going to come crying for the government to save them. It won't be pretty.

i wish them the best, and don't forsake a state for their political views or governor. We can hope they learn from their mistakes if they do indeed start running out of water, i bet those beautiful fracking lakes are looking mighty appealing right now.

Its almost as if God doesn't like Texas' political views, right Bachmann?

 

[Orbis Tabula]

Woah, is there a debate tonight? I had no idea!

 

[HylianTom]

You folks need to follow the hurricane/weather thread.

Rick Perry has no chance in hell of winning anything if all the weather reports are true. If no tropical storm hits Texas this year....

Extended drought = massive job losses, killing his little "miracle"

On top of that, Texas is going to need massive aid, which goes against his whole "let secede"

Honestly, this country should dump Texas now so we dont have to dig them out of their dry dusty hole next year and use our terrible fedbucks to do so.

Without a storm, some towns will start running out of water this year, thanks to their lack of planning and regulation. And then theyre going to come crying for the government to save them. It won't be pretty.

Texas is going to be going through a world of pain if they don't get rain somehow. I'm outta here in three weeks, and my co-workers over the summer have gone from (a) confidence that the weather will change to (b) quiet worried talk about whether this drought is some new, long-term thing.

Austin's been growing like crazy over the past decade, but you can't grow your economy/population indefinitely when the resources that sustain you are shrinking.

Hmm.. that sounds familiar.

 

[speculawyer]

Not that any of this is surprising at all . . .

Mike Lofgren has been working for 28 years as a congressional aide, on the Republican side, earning more than $100,000 a year every year since at least 2001. He worked as Repub staff on both the House and Senate Budget Committees. He is a serious insider who knows how things work and where the bodies are buried.
He recently retired and has decided to say what he has learned about the two parties and it’s amazing.

Goodbye to All That: Reflections of a GOP Operative Who Left the Cult

 

[mj1108]

You folks need to follow the hurricane/weather thread.

Rick Perry has no chance in hell of winning anything if all the weather reports are true. If no tropical storm hits Texas this year....

Extended drought = massive job losses, killing his little "miracle"

On top of that, Texas is going to need massive aid, which goes against his whole "let secede"

Honestly, this country should dump Texas now so we dont have to dig them out of their dry dusty hole next year and use our terrible fedbucks to do so.

Without a storm, some towns will start running out of water this year, thanks to their lack of planning and regulation. And then theyre going to come crying for the government to save them. It won't be pretty.

I can't wait for Perry to ask for Federal assistance.

 

[jamesinclair]

i wish them the best, and don't forsake a state for their political views or governor. We can hope they learn from their mistakes if they do indeed start running out of water, i bet those beautiful fracking lakes are looking mighty appealing right now.

Its almost as if God doesn't like Texas' political views, right Bachmann?

Absolutely, I dont want to see people or animals suffer, but the weather is the weather, and I don't believe that hoping or praying for it to change will make any difference.

So I might as well enjoy the political show while feeling bad for the innocent people that are getting screwed over by lousy government.

I want to make it clear that cheering for the drought to equal Perrys political demise does NOT mean I'm cheering for the suffering of the people in Texas.




Basically, all this drought shows is that the whole "government is bad" tirade fails every single time. And that maybe, just maybe, those evil, communist regulations that would have restricted sprawl growth may have just been what texas needed.

Sad part is, even when faced with disaster, it's not like the party of no will say "we fucked up". Theyll find a way to blame everyone else while drinking from the federal trough.

 

[RustyNails]

Woah, is there a debate tonight? I had no idea!

There's no "debate".

I can't wait for Perry to ask for Federal assistance.

Is he really in a situation where he's holding back asking federal assistance, due to personal beliefs/ego?

 

[besada]

I can't wait for Perry to ask for Federal assistance.

He's already done so and no one noticed or cared. He asked for it earlier and accused the administration of ignoring the request. Texas routinely gets federal disaster relief for droughts and hurricanes.

Is he really in a situation where he's holding back asking federal assistance, due to personal beliefs/ego?

No. As I pointed out some time ago, the Texas budget is basically predicated on federal disaster relief money. You can only get the money if local budgets can't handle the problem, so Texas makes sure local budgets can't handle the regular drought and hurricane problems, and they take federal disaster relief money nearly every year. Of course, even given that money, Texas puts more into the federal kitty than it takes out.

 

[gcubed]

He's already done so and no one noticed or cared. He asked for it earlier and accused the administration of ignoring the request. Texas routinely gets federal disaster relief for droughts and hurricanes.

they have to figure out how to cut somewhere else in order to give money to Texas

 

[PhoenixDark]

I can't wait for Perry to ask for Federal assistance.

Why? Most conservatives outside of the Paulites believe the federal government should provide aide to states when the states can't handle the situation. Perry has already asked for assistance.

I'm not sure what the lack of regulation has to do with the Texas response thus far, but any links would be appreciated

 

[ToxicAdam]

If the Texas people have paid federal taxes all their lives, why can't they ask for federal assistance when they qualify? Why is it hypocritical when Perry acts on their behalf?

 

[cartoon_soldier]

If the Texas people have paid federal taxes all their lives, why can't they ask for federal assistance when they qualify? Why is it hypocritical when Perry acts on their behalf?

It's the hypocrisy of Perry that is being highlighted, not whether Texas deserves federal aid or not.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Not that any of this is surprising at all . . .


Goodbye to All That: Reflections of a GOP Operative Who Left the Cult

The part that I have been trying to get into peoples heads in this thread:

There are tens of millions of low-information voters who hardly know which party controls which branch of government, let alone which party is pursuing a particular legislative tactic. These voters' confusion over who did what allows them to form the conclusion that "they are all crooks," and that "government is no good," further leading them to think, "a plague on both your houses" and "the parties are like two kids in a school yard." This ill-informed public cynicism, in its turn, further intensifies the long-term decline in public trust in government that has been taking place since the early 1960s - a distrust that has been stoked by Republican rhetoric at every turn ("Government is the problem," declared Ronald Reagan in 1980).

 

[empty vessel]

The part that I have been trying to get into peoples heads in this thread:

There are tens of millions of low-information voters who hardly know which party controls which branch of government, let alone which party is pursuing a particular legislative tactic. These voters' confusion over who did what allows them to form the conclusion that "they are all crooks," and that "government is no good," further leading them to think, "a plague on both your houses" and "the parties are like two kids in a school yard." This ill-informed public cynicism, in its turn, further intensifies the long-term decline in public trust in government that has been taking place since the early 1960s - a distrust that has been stoked by Republican rhetoric at every turn ("Government is the problem," declared Ronald Reagan in 1980).

Yep, huge problem. Republicans have successfully undermined confidence in our very own democratic governing institutions, leaving us nowhere to turn to fix the systemic problems that are plaguing us (like health care gouging). Democrats haven't helped the matter, but they haven't been conducting organized sabotage of the American government like the GOP has over the last thirty years.

 

[jamesinclair]

Why? Most conservatives outside of the Paulites believe the federal government should provide aide to states when the states can't handle the situation. Perry has already asked for assistance.

Texas is being a welfare queen.

The state should have been prepared for disasters. Should have forged private market partnerships to assist the state when disaster came. What happened to grabbing onto your bootstraps during tough times?

Being "unprepared" is not an excuse.

We need to cap off state welfare at 4 years (lifetime ban after that) and force drug tests upon all aid recipients. I need to know my tents aren't going to meth addicts or lifetime aid beggars.

If the Texas people have paid federal taxes all their lives, why can't they ask for federal assistance when they qualify? Why is it hypocritical when Perry acts on their behalf?

Secession ring a bell?

It's not about the Texas people, its about Perry.

 

[mckmas8808]

Maybe I missed this being brought up today but I was pretty surprised;



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...tration-to-drop-troop-levels-in-iraq-to-3000/

The GOP is already getting angry about it.



Yeah, the Iranian regime was celebrating when we invaded the country and took out Hussein. That left a power vacuum in the region that the Iranians were all too happy to fill.

Glad to see the number so low. I understand the frustration and anger from the left with the White House in general about somethings, but this should be one thing that we should be happy about. Lets bring that number as close to 0 as possible.

 

[Puddles]

Texas is being a welfare queen.

The state should have been prepared for disasters. Should have forged private market partnerships to assist the state when disaster came. What happened to grabbing onto your bootstraps during tough times?

Being "unprepared" is not an excuse.

We need to cap off state welfare at 4 years (lifetime ban after that) and force drug tests upon all aid recipients. I need to know my tents aren't going to meth addicts or lifetime aid beggars.

:slowclap

That was so magnificent I'm going to repost it somewhere.

 

[mj1108]

Texas is being a welfare queen.

The state should have been prepared for disasters. Should have forged private market partnerships to assist the state when disaster came. What happened to grabbing onto your bootstraps during tough times?

Being "unprepared" is not an excuse.

Considering the Republican mantra seems to be "every man for himself", Perry just figured there's no need to prepare for anything since the free market will take care of disaster relief.

 

[traveler]

So how capable do you guys think Perry is going to look tonight? He hasn't exactly been the strongest speaker when confronted with questions that don't align with his rehearsed talking points over the past few weeks, and, from what I understand of his campaign history, he's actually avoided debates as much as possible in the past. He really seems like he's a position to loose a lot of the ground he seems to be sitting on tonight.

 

[ToxicAdam]

It's the hypocrisy of Perry that is being highlighted, not whether Texas deserves federal aid or not.

The job of the Governor is to act on behalf of the people.

Secession ring a bell?

It's not about the Texas people, its about Perry.

But they are currently a part of the union. So, they are paying into the system. It doesn't matter what his rhetoric is.

 

[mckmas8808]

The job of the Governor is to act on behalf of the people.



.

So why does he hate Social Security so much?

 

[ToxicAdam]

So why does he hate Social Security so much?

I thought the conversation was about applying for federal funds after a disaster?

 

[Freshmaker]

The job of the Governor is to act on behalf of the people.




But they are currently a part of the union. So, they are paying into the system. It doesn't matter what his rhetoric is.

It is when he's trying to scam the system.

"We'll fund our schools exclusively through Federal money even though we're supposed to supply funds outselves."

Government calls BS

"The government can't tell us what to do."

*fires teachers*

"Sorry, the federal government made me do that."

 

[Zero Hero]

Not that any of this is surprising at all . . .


Goodbye to All That: Reflections of a GOP Operative Who Left the Cult

Fantastic and very insightful. Well worth the read.

 

[empty vessel]

It doesn't matter what his rhetoric is.

Why doesn't Perry's rhetoric matter when we are judging Perry?

Mr. Obama has signaled that he will propose to extend for another year a reduction of two percentage points in the 6.2 percent Social Security payroll tax that employees pay, which means about $1,000 more for the average household. And he is considering a proposal to expand the tax relief to employers’ share. ...

Republican leaders have said they might support the payroll tax cut’s extension if its cost is offset by equal spending cuts, a condition they did not apply for extending the Bush-era tax cuts on high incomes.

Your tax cuts have to be paid for. Theirs don't.

 

[besada]

Is the debate tonight going to be anywhere other than MSNBC or online? CNN or PBS covering it? I don't get MSNBC in HD. Anyone know?

 

[speculawyer]

Is the debate tonight going to be anywhere other than MSNBC or online? CNN or PBS covering it? I don't get MSNBC in HD. Anyone know?

You really wanna see those trolls in HD?

 

[teruterubozu]

So how capable do you guys think Perry is going to look tonight? He hasn't exactly been the strongest speaker when confronted with questions that don't align with his rehearsed talking points over the past few weeks, and, from what I understand of his campaign history, he's actually avoided debates as much as possible in the past. He really seems like he's a position to loose a lot of the ground he seems to be sitting on tonight.

Considering that exactly 4 years ago the GOP frontrunners were Rudy Giuliani and Fred Thompson, Perry is hardly a lock. He'd better get his gameface on.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Is the debate tonight going to be anywhere other than MSNBC or online? CNN or PBS covering it? I don't get MSNBC in HD. Anyone know?

CNN, I'm pretty sure.

You really wanna see those trolls in HD?

Once you have HD, it's impossible to stand an SD channel, no matter what the program is. lol

So what's the latest polling numbers and does anyone have a ranking from least crazy (Mitt) to batshit crazy (mostly(?) everyone else)?

 

[Puddles]

Your tax cuts have to be paid for. Theirs don't.

I thought you couldn't count money that the government steals from its citizens as money saved. Wasn't that the Wall Street Journal accounting MO?

 

[HylianTom]

Looking forward to tonight. There seems to be a theme where Republican primary voters love you the more you're disrespectful towards Obama, so I'm looking forward to seeing how deep the crazy gets.

 

[besada]

Considering that exactly 4 years ago the GOP frontrunners were Rudy Giuliani and Fred Thompson, Perry is hardly a lock. He'd better get his gameface on.

The problem is, none of the other candidates are exactly great orators. I figure Mitt is the one he has to worry about, and he's just not that quick on his feet. Perry gets flustered when the people he's dealing with are smart and articulate, but that leaves him some room against the current GOP crowd.

If Huntsman wasn't such a piece of wilted lettuce, he could probably go to town on him. Newt may tear him up a bit, although Newt and he hate some of the same people for the same reasons, so I'm not sure if Newt wants to. Cain is crazy and inarticulate. Paul is, well, Paul. Bachmann is looney tunes and actually makes Perry look smart.

Short of a complete meltdown by Perry, which I don't expect, or Newt sensing weakness and going for the jugular, I think he'll do okay in the debates. And the definition of okay here is keeping the base happy, rather than making Democrats think he's anything other than he is, which is a vile opportunist.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

So I'm going to go forward with the PoliGaf Podcast.

Who wants to join in?

All you need is Skype and a Microphone.

 

[Puddles]

Count me in.

 

[Gr1mLock]

Tonight is gonna be really interesting.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Oh did everyone see (on Facebook/emailed/etc) the Perry sucking dick photo juxtaposition yet (I have no idea if it's new or just something one friend found and posted today)?

It was pretty funny.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

So I'm going to go forward with the PoliGaf Podcast.

Who wants to join in?

All you need is Skype and a Microphone.

I would be thrilled to listen to such a podcast. I don't think I would ever consider participating. Much like how I've been lurking this thread for years, and this is maybe my tenth post.

 

[mj1108]

Anyone have any streaming links for the debate? Ustream? CNN?

 

[Hootie]

Not that any of this is surprising at all . . .


Goodbye to All That: Reflections of a GOP Operative Who Left the Cult

This is a very frightening and depressing article.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

Anyone have any streaming links for the debate? Ustream? CNN?

http://www.politico.com/2012-election/reagan-republican-debate/

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Not that any of this is surprising at all . . .


Goodbye to All That: Reflections of a GOP Operative Who Left the Cult

Why do they have Russia Today in their video feed?

I swear people (not spec) need to learn that using RT as a news source/video source on their site or post as a source is just murder for your credibility, regardless of one's message.

 

[HylianTom]

There's going to be a farting contest in the middle of the debate, right.. right?

 

[Big Baybee]

Lol, start off beastin' on Perry.

 

[SolKane]

dis gonna be good