PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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T

Tim-E

Member
Tamanon said:
I would hope no network would do that. If there's one group of people that shouldn't have interview rules it's politicians.
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I agree, but Romney has clearly spent much of this year avoiding the press. He isn't very good at answering questions he doesn't like, so he avoids those situations completely by sticking to interviews on Fox/conservative radio or addressing things in press releases/stump speeches. I could see networks being so desperate to get something from him that they'd agree to play nice. I think this is going to come back and bite him in the ass come debate time, because not only is he not good at answering uncomfortable questions about his time has governor or at Bain, he's basically avoiding serious "prep" for these debates by only answering questions he wants to be asked.
 
R

RoninChaos

Member
So the man says "nothing is free" but he got paid 100k a year and wasn't there?


... Wha?

I really wish we had a FUNCTIONING media that would get into these politicians asses on both sides. If there are any groups of people who shouldn't be able to say " no I won't answer that" are politicians. I think what happened to Palin scared the fuck out of the GOP despite the fact that Palin is as dumb as a bag of dicks and walked into that interview completely unprepared.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
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P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
I think this hand-wringing that the Obama Campaign has blown its political load all over our innocent faces is ridiculous. Rather than asking "are they pulling out the big guns too early?" we should instead be asking, "holy fucking shit, what else do they have?"
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
RoninChaos said:
So the man says "nothing is free" but he got paid 100k a year and wasn't there?


... Wha?

I really wish we had a FUNCTIONING media that would get into these politicians asses on both sides. If there are any groups of people who shouldn't be able to say " no I won't answer that" are politicians. I think what happened to Palin scared the fuck out of the GOP despite the fact that Palin is as dumb as a bag of dicks and walked into that interview completely unprepared.
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He also likes to take credit for the jobs created while he wasn't there, but the bad shit like outsourcing and the closing of some companies? Not him!
 
R

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
MonkeyKing said:
Thats reasonable....but I don't agree. I think the GOP will be just as obstructionist as they've been all along, if not more so. You don't spend four years demonizing a guy then turn around and start making compromises with him. How could they? They've been calling the guy everything under the sun except for his name. He's a radical Marxist, he hates America....hell he might not even be eligible for the office in the first place! How do they back down from that rhetoric and start working with him? Can't do it and they don't want to.
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Problem is, the public finally sees the GOP and Tea Party as the obstructionists dicks that they are and see that they are just out to hurt Obama's reelection chances rather than help the country, hence their record low approval numbers. If they keep up this tactic and don't start passing meaningful legislation, they'll lose the House in 2014.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Loudninja said:
Another Romney ad about Obama being negative
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/new-romney-ad-accuses-obama-of-being-excessively
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Not watching, but I want to pre-emptively respond:

[scary female voice]

Mitt Romney brags about his time with job-slashing Bain Capital but now wants to hide from his shameful record -- and has even asked for an apology. Rather than hiding and avoiding admitting Bain's legacy of outsourcing to the American people, he wants them to apologize for demanding the truth.

Romney: Don't Ask Americans to Apologize -- You Should Apologize to Them.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
RoninChaos said:
So the man says "nothing is free" but he got paid 100k a year and wasn't there?


... Wha?

I really wish we had a FUNCTIONING media that would get into these politicians asses on both sides. If there are any groups of people who shouldn't be able to say " no I won't answer that" are politicians. I think what happened to Palin scared the fuck out of the GOP despite the fact that Palin is as dumb as a bag of dicks and walked into that interview completely unprepared.
Click to expand...

And the sad part is, Katie Couric really didn't even go THAT hard on her.
 
M

MonkeyKing

Member
richiek said:
Problem is, the public finally sees the GOP and Tea Party as the obstructionists dicks that they are and see that they are just out to hurt Obama's reelection chances rather than help the country, hence their record low approval numbers. If they keep up this tactic and don't start passing meaningful legislation, they'll lose the House in 2014.
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No sir. I think most congressional districts are designed to be "safe", so that their incumbents don't face any kind of realistic challenge. So the race ends up focusing on a relative few swing districts. There are parts of the public that want the GOP to be obstructionist: I mean hell, you've been pushing the idea that the President is a secret Muslim non-citizen that wants to destroy the country. You're supposed to oppose him at every turn. Theres no walking back from this rhetoric. Of course the approval numbers are bad...its because government itself is bad! Thats the basis of their governing philosophy!
 
T

Tim-E

Member
MonkeyKing said:
No sir. I think most congressional districts are designed to be "safe", so that their incumbents don't face any kind of realistic challenge. So the race ends up focusing on a relative few swing districts. There are parts of the public that want the GOP to be obstructionist: I mean hell, you've been pushing the idea that the President is a secret Muslim non-citizen that wants to destroy the country. You're supposed to oppose him at every turn. Theres no walking back from this rhetoric. Of course the approval numbers are bad...its because government itself is bad! Thats the basis of their governing philosophy!
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"Everyone in Congress except the guy from my district sucks!"
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Of course the newspaper question was completely innocuous -- what it exposed was not that Sarah Palin was necessarily stupid (though she continues to make this case for herself), but rather that she didn't know how to answer because A) it would undermine the familiar refrain that all newspapers are liberal, and B) she actually didn't read any of them.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
PantherLotus said:
Of course the newspaper question was completely innocuous -- what it exposed was not that Sarah Palin was necessarily stupid (though she continues to make this case for herself), but rather that she didn't know how to answer because A) it would undermine the familiar refrain that all newspapers are liberal, and B) she actually didn't read any of them.
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Typical liberal revisionsm. Palin answered the question immediately. She said she reads a lot of them, different kinds of them. A variety of those types of things.
 
D

Diablos

Member
AlteredBeast said:
What would you call it then?

He runs for President of the world's most powerful nation only a few years after becoming a Junior Senator, riding the coattails of a few speeches he made in front of partisan audiences.

His opponent after winning the nomination was the worst since Mondale or Dukakis, who picked an even worse running mate in Palin. This at a time when a puffy shirt could have beat Abe Lincoln, with how negatively the country looked on the GOP. Unemployment was skyrocketing, housing crisis, stagnant and ridiculous wars, banking crisis, auto bailouts, etc. His bumbling 900 year old opponent offered little hope for change while Candidate Obama talked about little else.

The candidate who should have been sent to the slaughter last election, competent Mitt Romney, who led his state to amazingly low unemployment, raised taxes when needed, closed loopholes, passed the country's first legitimate step towards universal health care, and made hundreds of millions in business streamlining businesses was passed up by a man who had run for president 8 years prior and was smoked by Bush, the compassionate Christian whose idea of compassion is bombing arabs while providing AIDS relief in Africa, as if that cancels each other out.

Fast forward 3 years and the economy under President Obama is largely stagnant. Unemployment is still over 8% despite reigning over one of the lowest participation rates in over 50 years. The housing market continues to flounder. The debt continues to skyrocket. And the president's best idea for a line of attack is to go after millionaires, as if it will fix anything. *

Any other incumbent president would be paying swift boaters under the table to smear his opponent with insidious lies, but instead he doesn't have to because his opponent this time around no longer houses Sam Beckett trying to correct America's course before trying to leap home, his opponent is an out and out dishonest man who has never worked a day in his life in fear of not making the rent or mortgage and it shows. His opponent has been forced to do mentsl, lingual, and damn near physical gymnastics after taking both sides of nearly every issue ever while describing himself as "resolute". His campaign clearly has no idea what they are doing and lacks one ounce of the GOP swagger jn messaging and controlling the argument. He is a liar and a scoundrel, and his seemingly only good quality is that he is a great family man. He is the worst presidential candidate possibly of all time, especially when you factor in the fact that if the GOP had a clean, articulate young candidate with a competent campaign manager, they would probably be favored by 3 or 4% points nationally on the back of a campaign about hope and change being just another scam by a failed presidency. They would run videos of Obama on loops proclaiming how he would close guantanomo bay, get Americans back to work and how lobbyists would have no place in his white house, etc.

Instead you have the worst possible nominee at the worst time for the party. The GOP is filled with clowns, and unfortunately the ones with the loudest voices are drowning out the voice of any sane moderates left in the party.

President Obama is incredibly lucky. Not in the sense of having both houses of Congress to back him up and allow him to pass whatever, but in the sense that he has no competent opposition for presidency for the second straight election.

It probably helps that he really just is a regular guy. Extremely intelligent and charismatic, sure, but regular. No uneasy creepiness like McCain and no emotionless fakeness like everything Mitt Romney has ever been or done.


*not saying any of this is necessarily his fault, but he is president while it happens, despite the fact that he has opposition at every turn.
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All great points, but sooner or later odds would dictate something has to catch up to him. Is it losing a second term? I don't know. What I do know is that Romney still has room for improvement as we get closer to the fall. Obama needs to break >50% in daily polling across the board by then or he's going to be in some real trouble.

All of the things you mention are true. Romney is not that great of a candidate, nor is he even genuine. But the problem is that a lot of people will not vote for the President no matter what and they're blaming him exclusively for the slow recovery.
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
Remember when the GOP blocked the outsourcing bill;

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/28/gop-blocks-democrats-jobs-outsourcing-bill/

Washington (CNN) – Senate Republicans successfully blocked a bill from coming to the Senate floor Tuesday that Democrats claim would help keep American jobs from going overseas.

Republicans call it nothing more than a pre-election political ploy.

The Democratic bill would have ended certain tax breaks for companies expanding overseas while giving new tax incentives to businesses bringing jobs home.
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Nice to know that Republicans support American workers.

Another outsourcing bill is coming up. Will the GOP block it again?
 
T

Tim-E

Member
What the hell is Romney going to improve upon? His entire basis for being a great presidential candidate was his experience at Bain, which is getting torn to shreds. He can't run on his time as governor because that reminds people that he passed the same legislation that his base hates so passionately. He's been running for office for 18 years now and he still is incapable of running a competent campaign. If he hasn't learned anything in that time, he's not going to learn anything else. He has cornered himself into the Republican party's dreadful positions on immigration and women's health issues. If he's incapable of talking about his entire reason for running and incapable of reaching out to two of the most important groups of voters, then he's really left with nothing.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Romney has taken heat over Bain since 1994, the fact that he hasn't come up with any decent defense is pathetic. Gingrich did a lot of damage to him during the primaries on this, as did Santorum...and they could have done a lot more if they wanted to.

Well now Romney is facing someone who has the money and influence to fight back, and won't be drowned by negative ads. Like every other bully, he backs down when the tables are turned.

I don't think this will be an issue in September, but the problem is that Romney is being branded and defined by his opponent. Meanwhile he refuses to define himself outside of "I'm a businessman who can create jobs." It's time to propose an actual vision for the future, as Karl Rove said earlier today. He can't run on vague "lol Obama" forever
 
R

RoninChaos

Member
Measley said:
Remember when the GOP blocked the outsourcing bill;

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/28/gop-blocks-democrats-jobs-outsourcing-bill/



Nice to know that Republicans support American workers.

Another outsourcing bill is coming up. Will the GOP block it again?
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How is this a ploy? I don't get it. Keeping jobs in America would be helpful to the American people. Why did they kill it? What was in it?

Edit* Also, why Is this a political ploy yet the GOP voted to repeal the ACA 33 fucking times using the same reasoning. Oh, I know, because the word "tax" is in there.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
RoninChaos said:
How is this a ploy? I don't get it. Keeping jobs in America would be helpful to the American people. Why did they kill it? What was in it?
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Democrats proposed it.

EDIT: The article is right. Running on outsourcing is probably the most potent way for the Dems to stand a chance retaking the house.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Cyan said:
Ok, it's starting to make a little more sense now. My guess, purely based on what we know and what the campaign has said, is that Bain didn't want to take Romney's name off the company without a solid succession plan because they didn't want to scare off investors. Possibly they were also worried about triggering Key Man clauses, but we'll leave that for now.

So they took him out of the PPMs for new funds, since that would've been outright fraudulent, but left him nominally in charge ("part-time") while they got investors comfortable with new management.

Meaning that he really wasn't running things at Bain, but they wanted it to seem to investors like he was still at least somewhat involved. Which they can't really come out and say because it sounds shady.
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This is basically what I figured from the start. They kept him listed for corporate political reasons. The only real problem with what happened is now he's trying to have his cake and eat it too. (okay, and the whole "collecting a salary for not doing work" is pretty bad)
 
T

thefro

Member
Cyan said:
Ok, it's starting to make a little more sense now. My guess, purely based on what we know and what the campaign has said, is that Bain didn't want to take Romney's name off the company without a solid succession plan because they didn't want to scare off investors. Possibly they were also worried about triggering Key Man clauses, but we'll leave that for now.

So they took him out of the PPMs for new funds, since that would've been outright fraudulent, but left him nominally in charge ("part-time") while they got investors comfortable with new management.

Meaning that he really wasn't running things at Bain, but they wanted it to seem to investors like he was still at least somewhat involved. Which they can't really come out and say because it sounds shady.
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The simpliest explanation is that he never intended to leave Bain until 2001 (when the Governor's race in MA opened up for him).
 
K

kehs

Banned
Alot of people think Obama is still running against Romney for presidency. That battle was won when Romney was nominated.

Obama is, and has been, running against all the NObama republicans that are in office and are up for reelection soon. There is literally no way to hide the war on women, the obstructions, and the overall grudge the (R) guys have been throwing around.
 
F

Fox318

Member
Copernicus said:
Alot of people think Obama is still running against Romney for presidency. That battle was won when Romney was nominated.

Obama is, and has been, running against all the NObama republicans that are in office and are up for reelection soon. There is literally no way to hide the war on women, the obstructions, and the overall grudge the (R) guys have been throwing around.
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Are you implying that there was a GOP canidate that could have beat him given their base?

Aside from Gary Johnson
 
M

MonkeyKing

Member
All the above is the simplest answer. :)

Romney wants credit for managing a business. But he doesn't want the bad press that comes with some of their practices. He diverts his attention to running the Olympics but doesn't do the paperwork that would formalize his leaving the company, albeit temporarily. He claims to have nothing to do with them during that time period, as he spent most of his time in Salt Lake; yet maintains it was his residence and business when he got ready to run for office.

The details of the case really don't matter. The narrative gets reinforced: he is a lying sack of shit that will say anything if he thinks it helps his cause. He looks and sounds phony.

Team Obama has yet to get in his ass. Let Mitt start talking about the job numbers, and they'll run an ad with him stating "I like firing people". Get your popcorn ready.
 
K

kehs

Banned
Fox318 said:
Are you implying that there was a GOP canidate that could have beat him given their base?

Aside from Gary Johnson
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I can only assume they could have picked someone who wasn't directly contributing to the economic disaster of the past decade.

It's almost as if they believed the FOX diatribe about the media not vetting public officials and decided that no one would have ability to look into Romney's past in the year 2012.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Romney campaign continues to make things that much better:

Ed Gillespie, a senior campaign advisor for Mitt Romney, appeared on Meet the Press this morning to answer questions about Romney’s tenure at Bain Capital [...]

GREGORY: He was still financially linked to Bain. And of course, a lot his fortune is due to his time with Bain. Even when he was on leave, does he stand by the business decisions that were made by the firm he created?

GILLESPIE: He actually retired retroactively at that point. He ended up not going back to the firm after his time in Salt Lake City. So he was actually retired from Bain.
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Video at Think Progress

This is just genius, you can just go back in time to change what happened!
 
W

werks

Banned
17. According to the Boston Globe, “In a November 2000 interview with the Globe, Romney’s wife, Ann, said he had been forced to lessen, but not end entirely, his involvement with Bain Capital.” Did your wife misspeak?
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wow
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
Clevinger said:
If Forbes isn't even willing to get your back over this business stuff, you know you've got a problem.

35 Questions Mitt Romney Must Answer About Bain Capital Before The Issue Can Go Away
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Romney is fucked either way.


If he tries to distance himself from Bain (Which he's actively trying to do), then that means he wants his cake and eat it too. Wants all the power and none of the responsibility, you know being CEO, Chairman, and fucking OWNER!

If he embraces it wholeheartedly, it reinforces the stereotype of being out of touch, him having to explain outsourcing jobs, him firing people, destroying businesses, etc. Yeah, because big businesses that fuck over the little guy is EXACTLY what we need in the White House.
 
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