Support NeoGAF

[Teggy]

Is this useful? I feel like democrats are in danger of blowing a major opportunity across the country in 18 because they are more interested in fighting each other instead of republicans.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jmartNYT/status/896383053152616448

 

[Ryuuroden]

Is this useful? I feel like democrats are in danger of blowing a major opportunity across the country in 18 because they are more interested in fighting each other instead of republicans.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jmartNYT/status/896383053152616448

Plus the alt right is planning on posing as progressives to disrupt democratic meetings.

 

[El_Tiguere]

From the now closed Nina Turner thread:

Powered by ModBot
I really have no idea how anyone can still give a tiny rat's ass what Nina Turner is doing regardless of where she's managed to fail up into, let alone talk about it for 9 pages

Every progressive gives a tiny rat's ass about the person Bernie tasked with running his political revolution forward. This is evidence of the tilt in Neogaf. Oh well.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Far left loves a good protest but they don't actually go vote. The US is a center slightly right country over all. Leaning far left ensures Democrats lose in 18 and 20. Same if they dominate another woman. Too many misogynistic rednecks for that.

 

[kirblar]

Is this useful? I feel like democrats are in danger of blowing a major opportunity across the country in 18 because they are more interested in fighting each other instead of republicans.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jmartNYT/status/896383053152616448

School funding's basically the issue in the primary race she's in: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...emocratic-primary_us_595fd2d7e4b0d5b458ea397c (She's also not the favorite)

 

[Aaron Strife]

From the now closed Nina Turner thread:



Every progressive gives a tiny rat's ass about the person Bernie tasked with running his political revolution forward. This is evidence of the tilt in Neogaf. Oh well.

Who let you in here?

 

[El_Tiguere]

I remember when Bernie was off taking his vacation to the Vatican, Hillary was in Harlem, quietly eating dinner and hanging out with African American families.

Probably the biggest contrast in how the two sides treated the primary

I would say that Hillary has always been conservative-lite conniving politician who was a (racist) Barry Goldwater girl when she was younger (I guess before she decided which party to hang her ambitions onto) versus Bernie Sanders who was getting arrested in the streets fighting for civil rights.

I think these facts show the actual real world contrast between someone like Hillary (calculating and uses people as props) and someone like Bernie (racial social economic justice warrior for +40 years).

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I would say that Hillary has always been conservative-lite conniving politician who was a (racist) Barry Goldwater girl when she was younger (I guess before she decided which party to hang her ambitions onto) versus Bernie Sanders who was getting arrested in the streets fighting for civil rights.

I think these facts show the actual real world contrast between someone like Hillary (calculating and uses people as props) and someone like Bernie (racial social economic justice warrior for +40 years).

So why did the majority of minorities vote for Hillary and not Bernie?

The only reason he lost was because he couldn't get minority support. What made Hillary more appealing to minorities

 

[Poodlestrike]

Guys, before this turns into a Thing, just remember you can always put him on ignore.

 

[kirblar]

Please don't feed the blatant troll account.

 

[Autodidact]

I would say that Hillary has always been conservative-lite conniving politician who was a (racist) Barry Goldwater girl when she was younger (I guess before she decided which party to hang her ambitions onto) versus Bernie Sanders who was getting arrested in the streets fighting for civil rights.

I think these facts show the actual real world contrast between someone like Hillary (calculating and uses people as props) and someone like Bernie (racial social economic justice warrior for +40 years).

When did you decide you were going to spend your life criticizing Democrats instead of Republicans?

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Can governors call in the national guard as a pre-emptive way of keeping shit in line or does shit have to get out of control before they come in?

 

[Prof. Bathtub]

If they fired Lord for this sort of invocation, at the very least they should ask every other surrogate why the admin isn't denouncing the rally, and can them if their answer contains a "but-". But that presumes they were offended by Lord, not looking for an excuse because Trump told Zucker that Jeff was lame.

 

[Aaron Strife]

So why did the majority of minorities vote for Hillary and not Bernie?

The only reason he lost was because he couldn't get minority support. What made Hillary more appealing to minorities

"Black people don't know what's good for them," obviously.

The whole primary was a sham! Except caucuses, of course, those rule. We should keep those.

 

[Jebusman]

I would say that Hillary has always been conservative-lite conniving politician who was a (racist) Barry Goldwater girl when she was younger (I guess before she decided which party to hang her ambitions onto) versus Bernie Sanders who was getting arrested in the streets fighting for civil rights.

I think these facts show the actual real world contrast between someone like Hillary (calculating and uses people as props) and someone like Bernie (racial social economic justice warrior for +40 years).

You know I'm looking through your post history and I'm honestly wondering how you weren't banned already. Like the deep seated hatred you seem to have for Clinton, still this far after the election.

Bernie is literally an immaculate incarnation of perfection and Hillary might as well be Satan herself if you were to take every single thing you write as gospel.

I feel like even before the election the Bernie Bros didn't have the level of dedication you are putting in right now.

 

[jtb]

The left is better off without racists and misogynists. I'm very comfortable winning without those votes.

 

[KingK]

I'm just now reading about the Charlottesville stuff. Anyone have a good summary of what went down last night/today, and how many people showed up? I can't really find much googling

 

[Aaron Strife]

The left is better off without racists and misogynists. I'm very comfortable winning without those votes.

Nah, we need to appeal to those guys, man. We can take for granted every Hillary voter. Who are they gonna vote for, Trump? ololololol

 

[Valhelm]

I mean, regardless of what Bernie did or didn't do, Hillary was in a church with mothers of people who were killed by the police. She regularly talked about police brutality and said "Black lives matter" during debates. She worked hard for that support.
I mean, one of the main complains when she lost was that she focused too much in social problems instead of economic ones.

I think this is disingenuous. In the first primary debate, Bernie said Black Lives Matter very openly. O'Malley had to beat around the bush and apologize for his atrocious criminal justice record before saying those words, while Hillary shirked the phrase.

That said, Hillary Clinton was definitely more attuned to the needs and concerns of black communities than Bernie Sanders. Race was his most dangerous blindspot, and so-called progressives who think combating white supremacy is a distraction from "real concerns" are racist. Whenever another Bernie-style candidate emerges, they must work much harder to understand the various manifestations of structural racism and offer stronger policies that respond to the specific concerns of black people. Non-black Bernie fans who oppose this are selfish phonies who will jump off the liberation wagon as soon as they get their free college and universal healthcare.

While the farther reaches of the radical left are very good at explaining and combating white supremacy (thanks to the great participation of people of color within socialist orgs) the reddit/Young Turks wing of the Bernie movement is anything but. SandersForPresident types are ignorant of black struggles at best, and expressly racist at worst. There are imperialist and white supremacist tendencies throughout all sides of the Democratic party and they need to be stamped out immediately.

 

[Stinkles]

Please don't feed the blatant troll account.

If you want to know what a gullible Bernie Bro who absorbed tons of Russian nonsense sounds like, he's a great example. I had a Faceboook friend who was a Bernie or Buster and she kept forwarding completely fake stories, invariably about Hillary. Then when it blew up, instead of admitting she'd been fooled, she simply doubled down with a "well enough of it was true blah blah blah."

 

[barber]

I think this is disingenuous. In the first primary debate, Bernie said Black Lives Matter very openly. O'Malley had to beat around the bush and apologize for his atrocious criminal justice record before saying those words, while Hillary shirked the phrase.

That said, Hillary Clinton was definitely more attuned to the needs and concerns of black communities than Bernie Sanders. Race was his most dangerous blindspot, and so-called progressives who think combating white supremacy is a distraction from "real concerns" are racist. Whenever another Bernie-style candidate emerges, they must work much harder to understand the various manifestations of structural racism and offer stronger policies that respond to the specific concerns of black people. Non-black Bernie fans who oppose this are selfish phonies who will jump off the liberation wagon as soon as they get their free college and universal healthcare.

While the farther reaches of the radical left are very good at explaining and combating white supremacy (thanks to the great participation of people of color within socialist orgs) the reddit/Young Turks wing of the Bernie movement is anything but. SandersForPresident types are ignorant of black struggles at best, and expressly racist at worst. There are imperialist and white supremacist tendencies throughout all sides of the Democratic party and they need to be stamped out immediately.

Which part of regardless of what Bernie said you didn't understand? I was trying to point out that Hillary worked hard for the african american vote and pointed some ways in which he did that. I was not comparing it to what Bernie did. That african americans actually chose her because she spoke to them and worked hard for it, instead of just being a problem of Bernie being an unknown guy.
Bernie tried to work for it (as in before being destroyed in the South) but his lack of previous knowledge made the selection of proper speakers for the community bad, as well as tying the message of racism to economical terms is not something that would work. Which makes sense when you consider that he never had to work the minority vote previously.
Edit: I mean the article you posted actually says she had met with BLM before hand and that she hasn't posted yet her detailed platform (which was pretty good if someone read it). Otherwise, I am really in agreement with you, proper socialist organizations do a much better job at spreading the left wing "bernie" ideas than reddit or TYT which mostly hanged on the Bernie anti-establishment (and white economic anxiety)

 

[Cipherr]

From the now closed Nina Turner thread:



Every progressive gives a tiny rat's ass about the person Bernie tasked with running his political revolution forward. This is evidence of the tilt in Neogaf. Oh well.

FOH, that thread is crazy, and people trying to pretend that Nina Turner is some sort of leader that anyone pays attention too was baffling. Take a tour of some majority black communities on the internet for once and see how everyone laughed at her and moved on. GAF is the only place where I saw people try and prop her up as some sort of meaningful reasonable person that we should all stop and listen to as she rants about offensive donuts and beverages.

When did you decide you were going to spend your life criticizing Democrats instead of Republicans?

That is basically rule #1 for the BoB crowd. Always was from the beginning. I knew it would extend post election too.

 

[Aaron Strife]

If you want to know what a gullible Bernie Bro who absorbed tons of Russian nonsense sounds like, he's a great example. I had a Faceboook friend who was a Bernie or Buster and she kept forwarding completely fake stories, invariably about Hillary. Then when it blew up, instead of admitting she'd been fooled, she simply doubled down with a "well enough of it was true blah blah blah."

Does anyone remember that blog post that went viral about how the guy wanted to support Hillary for his daughter but goshdarnit, just couldn't, and it was filled with dozens of unsubstantiated claims? I remember a few friends of mine sharing that, me calling them out on how nothing was sourced and they were just like "oh yeah but it's all independently verifiable."

Turns out if you filtered out all the inaccurate claims you were left with "too close to Wall Street" and "voted for the Iraq War." Which are totally valid criticisms! But obviously your argument seems far less impressive when you're left with two points instead of 30, and one of those she explicitly agreed is a mistake.

 

[Valhelm]

Which part of regardless of what Bernie said you didn't understand? I was trying to point out that Hillary worked hard for the african american vote and pointed some ways in which he did that. I was not comparing it to what Bernie did. That african americans actually chose her because she spoke to them and worked hard for it, instead of just being a problem of Bernie being an unknown guy.
Bernie tried to work for it (as in before being destroyed in the South) but his lack of previous knowledge made the selection of proper speakers for the community bad, as well as tying the message of racism to economical terms is not something that would work. Which makes sense when you consider that he never had to work the minority vote previously.

You mentioned Hillary's support for Black Lives Matter, but that was a poor example because her acceptance of that message came later than Bernie's. She consciously chose to avoid that phrase in the earlier stages of the primary, before deciding that a full embrace of the Black Lives Matter idea was right. I don't disagree with the point you were making, just that one example.

It's dangerous to ignore her blind spots on racial justice simply because she was more popular with black voters. I've seen this a lot with the extremely online Hillary crowd.

 

[benjipwns]

Sean Hannity declares SUMMER MUST READ:

 

[tuxfool]

Lol, foreword by Farage.

 

[jack_package_200]

Sean Hannity declares SUMMER MUST READ:

I am so unsurprised that worthless wanker Nigel Farage wrote the Forward

 

[jtb]

btw shouldn't Turner be permanently marred by her association with the most corrupt, awful politicians to ever walk the land: the Clintons?

Or is she more a Dick Morris figure who has seen the light and is cool with the left after turning on his evil masters?

 

[Valhelm]

btw shouldn't Turner be permanently marred by her association with the most corrupt, awful politicians to ever walk the land: the Clintons?

Or is she more a Dick Morris figure who has seen the light and is cool with the left after turning on his evil masters?

This is another huge problem with the reddit/TYT Bernie fans -- identifying Clinton as some kind of singular evil rather than a pretty typical politician coming from a more broadly corrupt and derelict political environment.

 

[Aaron Strife]

btw shouldn't Turner be permanently marred by her association with the most corrupt, awful politicians to ever walk the land: the Clintons?

Or is she more a Dick Morris figure who has seen the light and is cool with the left after turning on his evil masters?

Much like Tulsi Gabbard and St. Bernard himself, all is forgiven once you attack the evil DNC.

 

[benjipwns]

btw shouldn't Turner be permanently marred by her association with the most corrupt, awful politicians to ever walk the land: the Clintons?

Or is she more a Dick Morris figure who has seen the light and is cool with the left after turning on his evil masters?

Are you saying she has a toe sucking fetish?

 

[Kusagari]

This is another huge problem with the reddit/TYT Bernie fans -- identifying Clinton as some kind of singular evil rather than a pretty typical politician coming from a more broadly corrupt and derelict political environment.

They think the Clinton's are some supreme force controlling the entire party when it's clear that Obama is the one with the most control. Most of them ignore the fact that Hillary was Obama's chosen candidate.

 

[benjipwns]

Shattered suggested that part of the problem was that Obama and his people all bailed out from the key infrastructure positions long before hand. Everyone assumed Hillary would be the candidate and fill in her own people. Which didn't work out all that well. They even had to hire back some of the Obama people who had been in the positions months before.

 

[kirblar]

They think the Clinton's are some supreme force controlling the entire party when it's clear that Obama is the one with the most control. Most of them ignore the fact that Hillary was Obama's chosen candidate.

And that the DNC serves at the pleasure of the President in years you control the WH.

Shattered suggested that part of the problem was that Obama and his people all bailed out from the key infrastructure positions long before hand. Everyone assumed Hillary would be the candidate and fill in her own people. Which didn't work out all that well.

Given the disastrous stuff that went down w/ trying to move DNC functions to OFA...yeah that sounds about right.

 

[Aaron Strife]

They think the Clinton's are some supreme force controlling the entire party when it's clear that Obama is the one with the most control. Most of them ignore the fact that Hillary was Obama's chosen candidate.

Obama seems to get a pass a lot from the Bernie Bros. Probably because he's hip and cool.

There are certainly some who still dislike him but even then the vitriol is usually never as bad as it is towards the Clintons.

I mean look at the Perez vs. Ellison fight. That election didn't really break down along the lines of Bernie vs. Hillary - there was plenty of establishment support for Ellison, but Obama was pushing for Perez. And yet, people still took it as an opportunity to bitch about Clinton.

 

[JP_]

"Elizabeth Warren fires back at centrist Democrats": https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2017/8/12/16138302/elizabeth-warren-netroots-nation

 

[Teggy]

Melania Trump @FLOTUS
Our country encourages freedom of speech, but let's communicate w/o hate in our hearts. No good comes from violence.

This is the vaguest of statements. I can't tell who she is saying has hate in their hearts or who she thinks is being violent.

 

[JP_]

This is the vaguest of statements. I can't tell who she is saying has hate in their hearts or who she thinks is being violent.

By design

 

[Valhelm]

This is the vaguest of statements. I can't tell who she is saying has hate in their hearts or who she thinks is being violent.

She's making the vaguest statement possible so she oppose white supremacist marches without alienating the segment of Trump's base that supports them.

 

[SerAardvark]

It's total BS to talk about communicating without hate when white supremacists are involved. They're inherently hateful - that's what their speech is literally about.

 

[Green Yoshi]

The world would be a better place if Greenwald fell off it tbh, so I kinda hope that it doesn't.

Fuck Glenn Greenwald.

Are you still mad about Edward Snowden? He and Chelsea Manning are not really popular in the USA.

 

[Aaron Strife]

It's total BS to talk about communicating without hate when white supremacists are involved. They're inherently hateful - that's what their speech is literally about.

Yeah, but remember, if you acknowledge this, you're just as bad.

Does anyone think Melania ever has a clue what's going on? I imagine some advisor telling her "hey, there's some political violence going on in Virginia, tweet about it." Or more often, "someone is being mean to Donald, tweet about it." I doubt she even writes the tweets. Maybe she pulls them from Michelle's twitter.

Like the fact that she made her First Lady pet issue cyberbullying is so laughably tone deaf I can only regard this as complete indifference or parody.

 

[kirblar]

Are you still mad about Edward Snowden? He and Chelsea Manning are not really popular in the USA.

No, this is about Greenwald being someone who supports/defends anything as long as it opposes the US. Including being a Russia apologist.

Snowden has always been complicated, even if you disagree w/ what he did, it didn't appear to be for the wrong reasons.

That can't be said of Manning, who just leaked info to a foreign adversary just to leak it.

 

[Autodidact]

"Elizabeth Warren fires back at centrist Democrats": https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2017/8/12/16138302/elizabeth-warren-netroots-nation

Elizabeth Warren, Reagan voter and Republican until 1995, lectures those spineless, conciliatory centrists.

Spoiler

And I like Warren!

This is the vaguest of statements. I can't tell who she is saying has hate in their hearts or who she thinks is being violent.

Moderate Darling Melania

 

[jtb]

Are you still mad about Edward Snowden? He and Chelsea Manning are not really popular in the USA.

Greenwald is a disingenuous troll who builds his arguments on strongmen and sweeping, unproven assumptions.

 

[Valhelm]

No, this is about Greenwald being someone who supports/defends anything as long as it opposes the US. Including being a Russia apologist.

Snowden has always been complicated, even if you disagree w/ what he did, it didn't appear to be for the wrong reasons.

That can't be said of Manning, who just leaked info to a foreign adversary just to leak it.

Thank god she did. We wouldn't know about the specific excesses of American drone policy if not for her sacrifice.

I'm surprised you prefer Snowden. While he revealed a lot more valuable information, his chumminess with Russia and abetting of the Trump campaign is really disconcerting.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Are you still mad about Edward Snowden? He and Chelsea Manning are not really popular in the USA.

Ehhh not really. This is about Greenwald being a bastion of the reflexively anti-American left, to the point where he's just a Putin apologist and defender at this point.

 

[JP_]

You guys need new hobbies. Obsessing over TYT, Tulsi, etc like this is just sad.
Be the grown ups you claim to be. Stop linking to tweets and making threads over nothing burgers that just serve to further enflame tensions between factions that should be allies. I swear, every time I open this thread you guys are like "omg can you believe what they said this time?" blah blah blah. It's pathetic. And don't give me that weak "they do it too" bullshit -- they're supposed to be the naive newcomers; you're supposed to be the seasoned political vets. Act like it.

 

[kirblar]

Thank god she did. We wouldn't know about the specific excesses of American drone policy if not for her sacrifice.

I'm surprised you prefer Snowden. While he revealed a lot more valuable information, his chumminess with Russia and abetting of the Trump campaign is really disconcerting.

At the time, Snowden's motivations for leaking it seemed sound. All the recent stuff w/ him fleeing to Russia/involvement with Assange/Greenwald's Russia apologism obviously may mean it's in a different light (and very much could) but at least at the time, it seemed like a misguided but well-intentioned decision.

Manning just raw-dumped a whole bunch of diplomatic cables in Russia's lap. That's indefensible. There was no rationale for it, just a desire to fuck shit up.

 

[jtb]

You guys need new hobbies. Obsessing over TYT, Tulsi, etc like this is just sad.
Be the grown ups you claim to be. Stop linking to tweets and making threads over nothing burgers that just serve to further enflame tensions between factions that should be allies. I swear, every time I open this thread you guys are like "omg can you believe what they said this time?" blah blah blah. It's pathetic. And don't give me that weak "they do it too" bullshit -- they're supposed to be the naive newcomers; you're supposed to be the seasoned political vets. Act like it.

You know, this argument rings less and less true every single day. Why ignore the divide in the Democratic party? It clearly exists. Why ignore TYT or tweets about random think pieces? People read about them and care about them. Why ignore Tulsi? She's a public figure who wants to build her national profile.

Do you actually have, you know, an argument to make about any of these things?