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PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair

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V

Valhelm

contribute something
I don't care if Russia finds out about our dirty laundry. But their behavior after the leaks shows that Manning is a much better person than Snowden.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
You guys getting upset about a month old Greenwald article that points out once again the garbage that swims to the top of these bipartisan think tanks? Mike Rogers, Mike Chertoff, the godking BILL KRISTOL.
Fly's neocon pedigree is impressive indeed. During the Obama years, he wrote dozens of articles for the Weekly Standard — some co-authored with Bill Kristol himself — attacking Obama for insufficient belligerence toward Iran and terrorists generally, pronouncing Obama ”increasingly ill suited to the world he faces as president" by virtue of his supposed refusal to use military force frequently enough (Obama bombed seven predominantly Muslim countries during his time in office, including an average of 72 bombs dropped per day in 2016 alone).

The Democrats' new partner Jamie Fly spent 2010 working in tandem with Bill Kristol urging military action — i.e., aggressive war — against Iran. In a 2010 Weekly Standard article co-written with Kristol, Fly argued that ”the key to changing [Iran's thinking about its nuclear program] is a serious debate about the military option," adding: ”It's time for Congress to seriously explore an Authorization of Military Force to halt Iran's nuclear program."

Fly then went around the D.C. think tank circuit, under the guise of advocating ”debate," espousing the need to use military force against Iran, spouting standing neocon innuendo such as ”we need to be wary of the Obama administration's intentions" toward Iran. He mocked Obama officials, and Bush officials before them, for their ”obsession with diplomatic options" to resolve tensions with Iran short of war.
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Vox's Dylan Matthews put it during the 2016 campaign, ”If you want a foreign policy adviser with strong ties to the neocon world, it's hard to do better than Fly."
Click to expand...
Don't mention the war!

Valhelm said:
But their behavior after the leaks shows that Manning is a much better person than Snowden.
Click to expand...
It gets overlooked, but she got turned in. She was in Iraq at the time. And in the military. (And under watch for a variety of reasons.) She didn't have a chance to run like Snowden unfortunately had to.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Valhelm said:
I don't care if Russia finds out about our dirty laundry. But their behavior after the leaks shows that Manning is a much better person than Snowden.
Click to expand...
I care if Russia gets access to our confidential communications. I care if Russia is able to disseminate them at will. Because they will weaponize that information and use it against us. Did it in the '00s, did it last year w/ the DNC hacks.

Manning hasn't really had the opportunity to be a worse person. She got treated like shit by the military prison system when serving and had to have her sentence commuted because they wouldn't stop treating her like shit. I agreed with the sentence and agreed w/ the decision to commute it on humanitarian grounds.

And yeah, again, I'm real curious if there was way more than met the eye w/ Mr. "Goldman Sachs or Donald Trump" years ago.
 
J

jtb

Banned
Valhelm said:
I don't care if Russia finds out about our dirty laundry. But their behavior after the leaks shows that Manning is a much better person than Snowden.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by this?

I find it hard to gauge Manning's actions one way or another because she's had so little agency through this entire process between the leak and her release.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
The "Goldman Sachs or Donald Trump" thing really makes my blood boil, and that's exactly the kind of short-sighted myopia that prevents Bernie-aligned Democrats from getting anything done.
 
J

jtb

Banned
Well, Snowden leaked to Greenwald in the first place because they share similar world views. Can't be too surprised.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
By the way, regardless of your political beliefs, it's glaringly obvious that the resurgence in Bernie Broism, Tulsitude and Hillary sucked infighting is being deliberately fueled by outside agitators. It's effective too. Look at this thread.
 
J

JP_

Banned
jtb said:
You know, this argument rings less and less true every single day. Why ignore the divide in the Democratic party? It clearly exists. Why ignore TYT or tweets about random think pieces? People read about them and care about them. Why ignore Tulsi? She's a public figure who wants to build her national profile.

Do you actually have, you know, an argument to make about any of these things?
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For clarity, when I say "you" I'm talking about this community in general.

The people here aren't merely drawing attention to them, they're enflaming them. They're creating an echo chamber where like half the conversation here is a circlejerk about how shitty progressives are. It's just as counter-productive as the hyperbolic rhetoric from the busters you all despise.

A thread was created about an offhand comment about donuts for fucks sake. Maybe you all have convinced yourselves otherwise and you all think you're really helping, but the purpose of creating that thread wasn't to understand the divide or to talk through how to solve the divide -- the purpose of that was to demonized the other faction by taking one over the top quote out of context and painting them as irrational etc. You cherry pick figures like Tulsi, TYT, and Greenwald to try and put them up as leaders of this movement so you can tear them down as a whole. I lean more toward the progressive side but nowhere do I hear more about Tulsi, TYT, Greenwald etc more than right here.

Both factions create these strawmen to justify the pathetic infighting. I kind of expect it from the less experienced progressive wing (and I do challenge them in similar ways), but you guys should know better. You've got no right pretending you're the sound-minded pragmatists while acting so foolish.

Edit: prime example very next post
 
J

jack_package_200

Banned
DHBBrjSUAAAqHNS.jpg
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Seeing this tweet being shared on twitter as some sort of progressive gotcha of Kamala Harris
 
K

kirblar

Member
Schucky Ducky said:
Not sure if this has already been discussed, but I just read this report from Bloomberg:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-11/manchin-is-said-to-emerge-as-possible-pick-for-energy-department

How likely is this to happen?
Click to expand...
0%. They were floating him before as well.
A thread was created about an offhand comment about donuts for fucks sake. Maybe you all have convinced yourselves otherwise and you all think you're really helping, but the purpose of creating that thread wasn't to understand the divide or to talk through how to solve the divide -- the purpose of that was to demonized the other faction by taking one over the top quote out of context and painting them as irrational etc. You cherry pick figures like Tulsi, TYT, and Greenwald to try and put them up as leaders of this movement so you can tear them down as a whole. I lean more toward the progressive side but nowhere do I hear more about Tulsi, TYT, Greenwald etc more than right here.
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Greenwald is not being cherry-picked. The Intercept is ridiculously pro-Russia.
 
S

skullmuffins

Banned
Schucky Ducky said:
Not sure if this has already been discussed, but I just read this report from Bloomberg:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-11/manchin-is-said-to-emerge-as-possible-pick-for-energy-department

How likely is this to happen?
Click to expand...
Manchin would be a traitor to the people of WV if he took a cabinet position knowing that he was only given the job so Trump could get another republican senator so they could destroy healthcare for his state. What a ridiculous game of musical chairs.
 
J

jtb

Banned
JP_ said:
For clarity, when I say "you" I'm talking about this community in general.

The people here aren't merely drawing attention to them, they're enflaming them. They're creating an echo chamber where like half the conversation here is a circlejerk about how shitty progressives are. It's just as counter-productive as the hyperbolic rhetoric from the busters you all despise.

A thread was created about an offhand comment about donuts for fucks sake. Maybe you all have convinced yourselves otherwise and you all think you're really helping, but the purpose of creating that thread wasn't to understand the divide or to talk through how to solve the divide -- the purpose of that was to demonized the other faction by taking one over the top quote out of context and painting them as irrational etc. You cherry pick figures like Tulsi, TYT, and Greenwald to try and put them up as leaders of this movement so you can tear them down as a whole. I lean more toward the progressive side but nowhere do I hear more about Tulsi, TYT, Greenwald etc more than right here.

Both factions create these strawmen to justify the pathetic infighting. I kind of expect it from the less experienced progressive wing (and I do challenge them in similar ways), but you guys should know better. You've got no right pretending you're the sound-minded pragmatists while acting so foolish.
Click to expand...

Nina Turner went to the DNC to draw press attention to her petition and the Bernie PAC. And now you're complaining that people are discussing the attention she got?

Just talk your politics or don't. It's absurd to say that TYT, Greenwald and Tulsi should not be discussed. If you think that there are other things that should be talked about (criticized, even!), then talk about those instead!

Autodidact said:
Yeah, McConnell urged Trump to offer the red-state Democrats cabinet positions, but the dumbass has no grasp of strategy.
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Not to mention, people like Manchin (theoretically) are some of the most powerful people in government right now.
 
H

Hubbl3

Unconfirmed Member
Jesus, CNN giving airtime to a shitbag trying to say "BLM is worse! The left is worse!". And now he's trying to say "Where's Tim Kaine? He's supposed to be leading this state!" and of course he deflects when asked about why it took Trump so long to respond
 
P

pigeon

Banned
How many time do I have to remind you that El_Tiguere is literally a banker

Please don't respond to him and ruin this thread the way he ruins literally every thread he posts in
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
We should talk about the things that unite us, like how much better things would be if Corbyn was the 2020 nominee.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
JP_ said:
You guys need new hobbies. Obsessing over TYT, Tulsi, etc like this is just sad.
Be the grown ups you claim to be. Stop linking to tweets and making threads over nothing burgers that just serve to further enflame tensions between factions that should be allies. I swear, every time I open this thread you guys are like "omg can you believe what they said this time?" blah blah blah. It's pathetic. And don't give me that weak "they do it too" bullshit -- they're supposed to be the naive newcomers; you're supposed to be the seasoned political vets. Act like it.
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What is this even in response to

Crab said:
We should talk about the things that unite us, like how much better things would be if Corbyn was the 2020 nominee.
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FINALLY I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU SUPPORT OPEN DEMOCRATIC PARTY PRIMARIES

YOUR WHOLE PLAN, IT'S RIGHT HERE
 
J

JP_

Banned
jtb said:
Nina Turner went to the DNC to draw press attention to her petition and the Bernie PAC. And now you're complaining that people are discussing the attention she got?
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Are you being disengenuous or are you being dense? Tell me, what was the thread title?

Edit: I'll just spell it out -- the thread title was: "Honorable Nina Turner: "They (the DNC) tried to seduce us with donuts and water""

JP_ said:
Maybe you all have convinced yourselves otherwise and you all think you're really helping, but the purpose of creating that thread wasn't to understand the divide or to talk through how to solve the divide -- the purpose of that was to demonized the other faction by taking one over the top quote out of context and painting them as irrational etc.
Click to expand...
 
A

Autodidact

Banned
Crab said:
We should talk about the things that unite us, like how much better things would be if Corbyn was the 2020 nominee.
Click to expand...

Didn't we run someone last year who came close but still wasn't able to win? I thought you encouraged people to avoid repeating mistakes.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Autodidact said:
Yeah, McConnell urged Trump to offer the red-state Democrats cabinet positions, but the dumbass has no grasp of strategy.
Click to expand...
If he wanted to give Manchin a Cabinet position his window ended in January. Trying this stunt now after the governor made a very publicized party switch gives away the plot.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
whyamihere said:
Things that are sad:
Marley & Me
2005 Britney
My bank account

Things that require a full throated denouncement:
White supremacy
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I'm surprised he even managed to call it sad

But then again he was probably just calling the situation sad. I'm sure WH officials will blame the counter protesters for giving them a reason to get run over
 
T

Teggy

Member
A car plowed into counter protesters, backed up, and did it again. There is plenty of video, I hope they can quickly get them.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
My gimmick: Not making an immediate judgement based on what I want to have happened.

Sorry, that it's gross to ask for a better video that's not the inside of a dude's hand for the crucial claim being made.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Don't come to this thread to complain about benji's conduct in another thread.

Go to the "what's the deal with benji's posts" community thread.

I didn't think his posts were that bad in that thread
 
S

ShadowSwordmaster

Banned
benjipwns said:
My gimmick: Not making an immediate judgement based on what I want to have happened.

Sorry, that it's gross to ask for a better video that's not the inside of a dude's hand for the crucial claim being made.
Click to expand...

The driver drove off after he or she hit people. Wouldn't a reasonable person stop driving and see what happened.
 
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