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[ShadowSwordmaster]

Who is against the skinny repeal?

 

[sphagnum]

Every other group responds and adapts to economic pressures to live within their means (though, I guess you'd say that's a bad thing too).

I know a way people can respond and adapt to economic pressures. It involves a hammer and a sickle.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

So Rand Paul is also in with skinny repeal

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/26/obamacare-repeal-republicans-minimum-240982

Skinny Repeal will pass exactly same way as MTP. Which is why MTP passing was not a good sign.

 

[Wilsongt]

What a week so far.

You can't focus on Russia is Trump and Republicans are busy fucking over millions of Americans!

 

[Hopfrog]

Skinny repeal would just nix the mandate, correct?

So much for Rand "I will only support a full repeal" Paul.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Who is against the skinny repeal?

I don't think anyone has publicly come out against it, mostly because it doesn't technically exist yet. There's no bill or anything.

 

[Kemal86]

So Rand Paul is also in with skinny repeal

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/26/obamacare-repeal-republicans-minimum-240982

It's done, then. Sigh.

 

[Plinko]

So Rand Paul is also in with skinny repeal

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/26/obamacare-repeal-republicans-minimum-240982

That may about do it.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

In a country with only two parties, that's basically a distinction without a difference.

I am amused by your earlier 'we all benefit more w/o tribalism, racism, etc' point. Some might even say...

Spoiler

Stronger together?

I think trust-busting is great too, glad it's in the platform.



And your solution is?

Every other group responds and adapts to economic pressures to live within their means (though, I guess you'd say that's a bad thing too).

I mean uh, social democracy?

 

[jtb]

But nobody is sitting here with a textbook and I think you know as much as anybody here that the current cultural meanings of "socialism" and "populism" and even "fascism" are different than their encyclopedic meanings.

You just come across as really flippant sometimes because you hold a lot of common conceptions to an extremely literal definition. You don't have to defend or explain yourself, I get it, and far be it from me to police how conversations unfold here, but I thought it was worth mentioning how bullish and pedantic you can come across in regards to conceptions you don't personally hold.

My BA is in English. There is quite possibly nobody here more guilty of holding people to more articulate forms of expression than me. I do it all the time on Gaming side and get a lot of grief for it. But here, after all this time in a closed environment, I think even you can agree that "populism" means policies that benefit the lower and middle class.

Words have meanings.

"Be populist" has no meaning if the word 'populist' has no meaning.

Hence, discussion about meaning of said word.

This is such a carping, inane line of argumentation.

 

[metalslimer]

Skinny repeal is such a load of horseshit.

They're going to have another victory celebration and then blame dems when the market falls apart

 

[AntraxSuicide]

They should get the support they need to maintain a dignified quality of life (that is, not homeless, hungry, or sick) and the freedom to choose what to do.

For sure. But I really don't see how you'd fix it so that people in my hometown (1200 people in rural Mississippi) make the same salary as people in a metro area given that the only jobs in the future will be service jobs, which require a population to serve. I'd like a UBI Pronto, but there's just no way to say "I'm going to get a great job in this small town" and it be as true as a similar job in a metro area.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Who is against the skinny repeal?

Graham said he might be against it? I don't know if that still holds up though.

 

[Plinko]

So what is going to be the effect of eliminating the employer mandate?

 

[VendettaRed07]

Hey "Build the Wall!" worked no matter how insane that was. Are you really giving that much credit to American public?

And "Lock her up!"

and "Drain the swamp!"

Slogans don't mean shit. But people will vote!

Those aren't really similar. You can't really say that "they are both dangerous because they are both 'populism"'. It isn't irresponsible or crazy to promise financial industry reform like it is to promise a giant ass wall on the southern border.

"Why don't you just abandon all sense of family, friends, and community to meet the demands of capital or die of an opiate addiction after capitalists bought off congress to make it legal and highly profitable to prey on you. America is already great!"

Democrats! 2018!:

 

[cartoon_soldier]

You have told people for 7 years you will repeal Obamacare. It would have been very surprising if nothing was passed at all.

Skinny Repeal will crash Obamacare anyway.

 

[Teggy]

McCain said his vote for BCRA was procedural and completely in line with his statements. Someone who knows more about congress will have to explain what that means.

 

[kirblar]

I mean uh, social democracy?

Is still capitalist?

Graham said he might be against it? I don't know if that still holds up though.

This would be incredible if it happens.

 

[Futurevoid]

So what is going to be the effect of eliminating the employer mandate?

The individual market will invariably collapse.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I kind of wonder if anyone will change back to no once the CBO report shows massive increases in premiums.

We've seen the CBO report kill this thing multiple times before.

You have told people for 7 years you will repeal Obamacare. It would have been very surprising if nothing was passed at all.

Skinny Repeal will crash Obamacare anyway.

This isn't a repeal of Obamacare and would likely not make those crazy GOP voters satisfied.

 

[jtb]

I mean uh, social democracy?

I mean, uh, policies?

 

[benicillin]

A skinny repeal either needs to go straight from the Senate to the House to get voted on (and might not even pass), or it needs to go into conference with the house republicans where it could become another monster hodgepodge that loses a vote or two in the senate.

Like I'm not saying anyone should be optimistic but I really wish folks would stop reading one Politico article and go GAME OVER MAN, GAME OVER.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

McCain said his vote for BCRA was procedural and completely in line with his statements. Someone who knows more about congress will have to explain what that means.

He's lying

 

[balladofwindfishes]

A skinny repeal either needs to go straight from the Senate to the House to get voted on (and might not even pass), or it needs to go into conference with the house republicans where it could become another monster hodgepodge that loses a vote or two in the senate.

Like I'm not saying anyone should be optimistic but I really wish folks would stop reading one Politico article and go GAME OVER MAN, GAME OVER.

The very article linked said Rand would not support moving it to committee because it would bloat the bill.

 

[sangreal]

McCain said his vote for BCRA was procedural and completely in line with his statements. Someone who knows more about congress will have to explain what that means.

If we were to give him the benefit of the doubt for some inexplicable reason I would say it means that he wanted the BCRA to be the base bill but would vote against final passage without more amendments

 

[kirblar]

McCain said his vote for BCRA was procedural and completely in line with his statements. Someone who knows more about congress will have to explain what that means.

He voted for BCRA immediately after. He was full of shit.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I kind of wonder if anyone will change back to no once the CBO report shows massive increases in premiums.

We've seen the CBO report kill this thing multiple times before.



This isn't a repeal of Obamacare and would likely not make those crazy GOP voters satisfied.

There are GOP voters who think the Medicaid they are on is thanks to Trump and not Obamacare.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I mean, uh, policies?

natonalize and decommodify necessary goods (food, housing, etc), massively expand the public sector, create a sovereign wealth funds used to enrich citizens through public wealth and either create a jobs guarantee or UBI

 

[Poodlestrike]

I thought part of pursuing single payer was encouraging economic and physical mobility by decoupling healthcare from job prospects? We want people to move around, share their ideas and perspectives with new groups of people. That's how progressivism evolves.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

If we were to give him the benefit of the doubt for some inexplicable reason I would say it means that he wanted the BCRA to be the base bill but would vote against final passage without more amendments

This is what he was saying, but yeah, I think he's full of shit.

 

[Resident_UA]

Those aren't really similar. You can't really say that "they are both dangerous because they are both 'populism"'. It isn't irresponsible or crazy to promise financial industry reform like it is to promise a giant ass wall on the southern border.

If you don't have a good plan as far as I'm concerned it's the same shit. If (for example) Dems win with "financial industry reform" slogans and start trying to pass something like Republicans are doing now you will end up with similarly shitty policy that only does damage.

 

[shockthrill]

Your question is "white american teens", and your answer is "white american teens".

it's just a weird disconnect, these are the same people that would say "Soviet Union is not real marxism" yet wear soviet apparel as clothing

and I'm sorry, I don't mean to put you on the spot, but sphagnum has a soviet symbol in his avatar, and yet he is probably the first to say that the Soviet Union wasn't real communism

just seems a little disconnect here

 

[Hopfrog]

Repealing the mandate would undoubtedly collapse the market. Also, if this leaves the Medicaid expansion in place and the subsidies, what happens when Republicans try to tackle tax reform? Weren't their tax plans predicated on savings brought about by killing the expansion and the taxes and subsidies?

Can't see how this is a win for them aside from them being able to say that they passed something. It's even worse than just not passing anything and sabotaging the exchanges through holding back the funds. There will now be a straight-line connection between the collapse of the market and Republican actions.

 

[jtb]

The House will vote for whatever the Senate tells them to vote on. They already took a significantly more painful vote; they won't let all that blood be for nothing.

Unless Paul Ryan is really stupid. That's a possibility, I suppose.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

In a country with only two parties, that's basically a distinction without a difference.

Not even close to true. The UK functionally a two-party system and populism doesn't have the same potential to be anywhere near as effective as it does for the Democrats right now, for all of the reasons I pointed out about party dynamics re: the Conservatives you seem to have ignored/not understood.

I am amused by your earlier 'we all benefit more w/o tribalism, racism, etc' point. Some might even say...

Spoiler

Stronger together?

Right, and also 'cronyism', which Clinton rarely talked about and never with enthusiasm (but hey, it was on her website...). Stronger together, unless you're being fucked over by your boss.

 

[RumbleHumble]

So Rand Paul is also in with skinny repeal

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/26/obamacare-repeal-republicans-minimum-240982

Alright guys, brace yourselves for the skinny to pass.

 

[RumbleHumble]

The very article linked said Rand would not support moving it to committee because it would bloat the bill.

He's referring to moving it to a Senate committee rather than to the House. He just wants it gone.

 

[eBay Huckster]

late

Why do we give a fuck about Hillary Clinton's book again...?

if PBY isn't clutching pearls over something he has no reason to post

 

[Officerrob]

They are going to throw a massive celebration about how the "nightmare" of Obamacare is over, then blame the Dems when the insurance market collapses and rates go through the roof...

 

[Deleted member 231381]

if PBY isn't clutching pearls over something he has no reason to post

This added nothing. Post something useful or don't post. There's no reason to make PoliGAF even more of a clique than it already is by being a wanton dick to dissenting opinion.

 

[kess]

"Why don't you just abandon all sense of family, friends, and community to meet the demands of capital or die of an opiate addiction after capitalists bought off congress to make it legal and highly profitable to prey on you. America is already great!"

That was the purpose of having School Lands and College Lands set aside for public education in the Land Ordinances of the late 18th century, which is why the Great Lakes states historically resisted destructive forms of populism better than most regions. Modern administrations have severed that historical link.

Public education was once a form of populism. Distinctions have to be made.

 

[VendettaRed07]

If you don't have a good plan as far as I'm concerned it's the same shit. If (for example) Dems win with "financial industry reform" slogans and start trying to pass something like Republicans are doing now you will end up with similarly shitty policy that only does damage.

Was Obama full of shit when he campaigned on it and passed Dodd Frank? Yeah we could do more but Idk I'm not really ready to equate the likely outcomes of adopted policies from elected democratic officials to the ramblings of a life time snake oil salesman

 

[kirblar]

I thought part of pursuing single payer was encouraging economic and physical mobility by decoupling healthcare from job prospects? We want people to move around, share their ideas and perspectives with new groups of people. That's how progressivism evolves.

Single-payer evangelists and people arguing for a change to HC's structure to increase job mobility are both part of groups arguing for overall health reform while likely not having a ton of overlap between the two.

 

[Abinash117]

Exactly. The right's version of populism is a reaction to increasing income inequality and fears of white genocide. Thus, its turns to a (lie) about isolationism, demonizing brown people and immigrants, expelling immigrants, crushing the most marginalized, etc.

Yup, a lie they want and love to believe in.

Sure the right's policies is the one that what hurts them, but that doesn't matter because those people are receptive to right-wing populism and many on some level believe in the traditional Republican orthodoxy of fiscal conservationism and small government as well.

The vast majority of these people have been voting for Republicans for generations the Republicans that are pro-corporate, pro-wealthy, pro-privatization, etc.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I thought part of pursuing single payer was encouraging economic and physical mobility by decoupling healthcare from job prospects? We want people to move around, share their ideas and perspectives with new groups of people. That's how progressivism evolves.

personally, I support single payer so that everyone has affordable healthcare.

 

[Autodidact]

They are going to throw a massive celebration about how the "nightmare" of Obamacare is over, then blame the Dems when the insurance market collapses and rates go through the roof...

That strategy won't work. By passing and celebrating this bill - and by having Trump talk about it INCESSANTLY - they take ownership of whatever happens.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Repealing the mandate would undoubtedly collapse the market. Also, if this leaves the Medicaid expansion in place and the subsidies, what happens when Republicans try to tackle tax reform? Weren't their tax plans predicated on savings brought about by killing the expansion and the taxes and subsidies?

Can't see how this is a win for them aside from them being able to say that they passed something. It's even worse than just not passing anything and sabotaging the exchanges through holding back the funds. There will now be a straight-line connection between the collapse of the market and Republican actions.

This skinny bill as is would save $416 billion over 10 years. Premiums would be expected to increase by 20% on average, but partially be mitigated by subsidies.

That amount is peanuts. It wouldn't do anything for tax reform. I'd imagine they'd have to start over there.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Single-payer evangelists and people arguing for a change to HC's structure to increase job mobility are both part of groups arguing for overall health reform while likely not having a ton of overlap between the two.

But that's so stupid. If we totally eliminate any incentive to interact with new people and new places we'll all just turn into conservatives again 30 years down the road.

personally, I support single payer so that everyone has affordable healthcare.

I did say "part."

Also there are other ways to do that? Like, you could create a jobs guarantee, and a health insurance employer mandate. Boom done.

Policies push a whole lot of levers, and it's kind of important to account for them, you know?

 

[skullmuffins]

McCain said his vote for BCRA was procedural and completely in line with his statements. Someone who knows more about congress will have to explain what that means.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...health-bill-but-his-vote-was-still-weird.html

A handful of experts on the Senate’s arcane procedures offered up a possible defense: technically, Tuesday night’s vote wasn’t to pass BCRA, it was a procedural vote on whether a version of BCRA with amendments from Ted Cruz and Rob Portman satisfies budget rules, and could therefore be passed at a later date with only 50 votes.

that, but it's pretty much bullshit because everyone knows it was essentially a proxy vote for the bill itself.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

That strategy won't work. By passing and celebrating this bill - and by having Trump talk about it INCESSANTLY - they take ownership of whatever happens.

This exactly. Trump will use every opportunity to sing and dance about how the "horror of Obamacare" is dead. Then premiums will go up 20% for everyone if not bring down the entire market.