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PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair
- Thread starter aspiegamer
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Okay, but that is not "telling people what they want to hear."
Based on that definition, populism is good.
Abinash117
Member
Trump ran on a right-wing populist platform that so happens many Americans supported , including many of the WWC.
Bernie was far more left-wing and was more about government intervention. Donald Trump's platform focused more on identity politics of Evangelicals, WWC, and conservative White Americans and that is why he won.
They both ran on a populist message, however, they were very different on many scales, but similar to who they wanted to target. Only one of them successfully won the group they was targeting . I doubt that the Democrats form of populism will win out, because it doesn't have the racial element that drew many people to Trump. I can see it drew in some of them though.
So McCain admits to doing the wrong thing?
Exactly. The right's version of populism is a reaction to increasing income inequality and fears of white genocide. Thus, its turns to a (lie) about isolationism, demonizing brown people and immigrants, expelling immigrants, crushing the most marginalized, etc.
Not when your vision of the world is an unironic Hunger Games and all the problems are due to those terrible decadent urbanites having gay orgies and abortion parties and letting trans people serve in the military while stealing all your jobs away.
That stuff about economic isolationism is very much there in left-wing populism as well.
Resident_UA
Member
Minimum wage hikes is like putting a bandage on a problem. Sure it will help temporarily, but it won't fix anything. You have to be more specific with regulations. I guess I'm for them, but I don't see how that fixes anything. College is a good step, but there are shitton of people who are in crappy high schools so college is like a pipe dream for them.
I don't think that any of Bernie's suggestions would actually fix anything. They would help a bit, but at the core poor people will still live in shitty neighborhoods with shitty school systems and will have much smaller chance for success...
McCain is such a piece of shit. He knows what he did was wrong.
Agreed. But those views are only going to become harsher and more exaggerated if the underlying problems are not solved.
White supremacy is in the interests of white voters. That's what they voted for. That's what they'll get.
It's a trash graph. Get one that shows % growth YoY pegged to inflation, then we'll talk.
UberTag
Member
McCain behaves like he's still a prisoner of war in Vietnam and the Republicans are his masters.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I'm also sort of curious as to what you want the Democrats to do if not populism. Like, there is very clearly an established political and economic elite screwing over the vast majority of Americans. They're called the Republican Party. If you're not populist, you're either denying that the Republicans currently constitute an elite (obviously untrue), denying that they have interests opposed to the majority of Americans (also untrue), or saying that you don't intend to do anything about it (I hope very dearly this is untrue).
I've never denied that there is overlap - that and foreign policy are the areas that they merge.
What the fuck is this????? This is quite possibly the worst post in the history of poligaf.
How is any of this different from the rhetoric and messaging of every political campaign in the history of elections?
Why do we even need to define 'criticize the incumbent' as 'populism"??
VendettaRed07
Member
We need to make genuine appeals to minority groups of this country or else we will lose them and the numbers they have turned out for the party will continue to drop off. Actually passing legislation that positively effects their lives isn't just telling them "what they want to hear", it's proving that they aren't just being used or extorted for their votes.
We also need to make a comprehensive plan for young people in general who are locked down in low paying, low prestige work positions with real opportunity of effectively moving up, or we will lose them.
Sorry, but I am absolutely not down for the "get better liars", plan. It's dumb as hell to even suggest that's really the problem. Maybe you can win an election on lying but it's hard to stay in for long periods of time if you don't deliver.
There are some unreasonable things the democratic base wants. Most of it is not. And would not have the astoundingly terrible repercussions that the majority of Trump's platform if they were passed. Yeah $15/h might be bad for some rural areas of the country but it isn't fucking "TRASH ALL INTERNATIONAL TRADE AND DESTROY NATO", for gods sake.
We also need to make a comprehensive plan for young people in general who are locked down in low paying, low prestige work positions with real opportunity of effectively moving up, or we will lose them.
Sorry, but I am absolutely not down for the "get better liars", plan. It's dumb as hell to even suggest that's really the problem. Maybe you can win an election on lying but it's hard to stay in for long periods of time if you don't deliver.
There are some unreasonable things the democratic base wants. Most of it is not. And would not have the astoundingly terrible repercussions that the majority of Trump's platform if they were passed. Yeah $15/h might be bad for some rural areas of the country but it isn't fucking "TRASH ALL INTERNATIONAL TRADE AND DESTROY NATO", for gods sake.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
...it's really not, though. Everyone benefits from a society in which we have more friends, more neighbours, more compatriots, less poverty, less cruelty, less oppression, because we all have moral interests.
The Democrats just did a shit job of explaining that and defending those ideals.
nature boy
Member
Nice knowing ya part 2
Our left is isolationist too (Trump said he was, but that was clearly a lie).
I don't agree with economic isolationism, but there are elements that can be leveraged, e.g., anti-trust, wall street reform, corporate de-consolidation.
shockthrill
Banned
Ok i need to ask you guys something
One thing I am confused about, i notice that there are many young people that are self proclaimed marxists today, which is fine. As an analysis tool Marxism is great
but i don't understand why many white american teens rock soviet iconography, i see this all the time, carrying soviet flags at protests etc. etc.
But Soviet Union was not true marxism
it's confusing
One thing I am confused about, i notice that there are many young people that are self proclaimed marxists today, which is fine. As an analysis tool Marxism is great
but i don't understand why many white american teens rock soviet iconography, i see this all the time, carrying soviet flags at protests etc. etc.
But Soviet Union was not true marxism
it's confusing
whyamihere
Banned
Heller says he probably supports skinny repeal.
That might be that. Also hello Senator Rosen.
That might be that. Also hello Senator Rosen.
And white people benefit more from white supremacy?
Resident_UA
Member
I mean if the whole thing just becomes about populism I don't even see a reason to follow politics. Sure democrats could yell "Single Payer!" "Ban Wall street!" and could even win elections, but what's the point? Just so they can say they won? At least we know that it didn't make Trump happy...
RumbleHumble
Banned
Heller AKA the idiot who values Sheldon Adelson's opinion of him more than his constituents.
Aaron Strife
Banned
What a dingus.
I have no idea what you're arguing against. If you control the presidency and congress, you can enact these reforms.
balladofwindfishes
Member
It's pretty obvious he realized about a week ago that he was no longer going to be a senator.
I'd be more interested in seeing where Paul, Johnson, Moran, Lee and Murkowski stand on it.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Pretty sure skinny repeal will pass here. Same votes as MTP.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Your question is "white american teens", and your answer is "white american teens".
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Turtle must've lined up a helluva private job
Yup, transphobia was a losing issue in a southern state that he carried. Transexuals in the military is so far away from being an issue for... anyone. Unless they're trying to gin it up as "government waste," which... good luck trying to sell DoD-appropriated healthcare as government waste.
BlastProcessing
Member
Have we talked about the fact that the Sanctions bill is dead?
@eschor
Elana Schor Retweeted Elana Schor
Corker CONFIRMS this AM - Senate plans to *strip NK and send the bill back.* Likely to delay passage to Sept.
The House and Senate will just eternally pass it back and forth.
@eschor
Elana Schor Retweeted Elana Schor
Corker CONFIRMS this AM - Senate plans to *strip NK and send the bill back.* Likely to delay passage to Sept.
The House and Senate will just eternally pass it back and forth.
I've never said anything about Corbyn? And its the same general underlying principles of de-consolidation.
Resident_UA
Member
balladofwindfishes
Member
You think the "I'm not voting on anything other than a clean repeal" crowd will cave?
You think Ted Cruz and friends will vote to continue abortion funding?
The FTP crowd and the skinny repeal crowd are different with different wants out of this process.
Yes?
It's all theater. I believe they'll come out of here with something, just so they can have something.
Who wants to "ban wall street"?
"This" is what is occurring in rural areas as a result of systemic changes in the nation's economy to a service-based one. Cities are now massively competitively advantaged relative to rural areas to a far greater degree than they have been, and that shift in relative status is playing out as we see population moving away from rural areas across the country.
I get this. And your solution to "just move" is trash.
Resident_UA
Member
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Christ almighty
balladofwindfishes
Member
No they wouldn't? I don't even know what the hell that means.
Finale Fireworker
Member
In my experience here, Kirblar, you take definitions and concepts extremely literally in a way that is counter-logical to the way an ordinary voter thinks and feels.
You gain nothing by telling people the things they're passionate about are called something different. "That's not socialism" and "that's not populism" is like correcting somebody's spelling. I get there's an urge to do it and there's value in specificity but you're not going to make any inroads with people who identify with certain tenets of ideologies and use the broader term in a way most people have a shared understanding of.
Being so willing to alienate people on how they express themselves versus what they believe in and constantly trying to invalidate them based on word choice is why people are enraged by the "establishment."
I think you would be more productive if you sought to understand people rather than react in your impulse to correct them.
I'm not trying to drag you for any single post or anything and I hope you don't take offense to this post. I'm trying to be constructive.
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