PoliGAF Debate #3 Thread of Hey Joe, where you goin' with that plunger in your hand

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Fox318 said:
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:lol :lol :lol :lol OMFG, I'm dying here...

What's the original from?
 
It appears that the "Senator Government" wasn't just a slip by John McCain.

“John McCain will continue to fight on behalf of all hardworking Americans like Joe for policies geared toward increasing prosperity and reducing the burden on taxpayers -- not 'spreading the wealth around' for Senator Government to distribute as he sees fit.”
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That's Tucker Bounds, his spokesman. Is this a common term or some weak last-ditch attempt at equating Obama = Government = The Problem?
 
Keio said:
It appears that the "Senator Government" wasn't just a slip by John McCain.



That's Tucker Bounds, his spokesman. Is this a common term or some weak last-ditch attempt at equating Obama = Government = The Problem?
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It's another attempt to make Obama look like the problem. The McCain's campaign is really just stupid.
 
Trurl said:
Since we're on the topic, will GAF's feelings towards Obama chance once he is president?
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I'm just looking forward to ignoring politics and not having everything going to hell in a hand-basket. I want to sit back and spend my time & mind on other things . . . I'll just chill . . . . Obama's got this.
 
speculawyer said:
I'm just looking forward to ignoring politics and not having everything going to hell in a hand-basket. I want to sit back and spend my time & mind on other things . . . I'll just chill . . . . Obama's got this.
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I'm looking forward to Supreme Court nominations. The process can get really fascinating.
 
HylianTom said:
Edit: new Zobgy out>>

Obama 49%
McCain 44%

Key finding: Obama leads McCain among independents 52%-33%
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What on earth is their party ID weighting? A 20-point lead in independents should translate to more than a five point lead.
 
GhaleonEB said:
What on earth is their party ID weighting? A 20-point lead in independents should translate to more than a five point lead.
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The "Joe" Vote counts for double in Zogby polls.

Seriously I don't know. His poll has been consistently odd with wild swings back and forth this cycle. For the last week though it's been pretty consistent at 4 or 5 points.
 
speculawyer said:
I'm just looking forward to ignoring politics and not having everything going to hell in a hand-basket. I want to sit back and spend my time & mind on other things . . . I'll just chill . . . . Obama's got this.
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I agree with this. I definitely plan on following politics and while for the most part anticipate liking what an Obama administration will do, I'm sure I'll have more than a fair share of problems with him. For starters I doubt I think he's backed himself into a corner on taxes after campaigning as such a populist. Plus I think there are a few key large scale projects that he won't have the ambition to do right, despite historic opportunity (health care will be a weak compromise, and I don't anticipate the population center driven high speed rail). I know how challenging things are right now, but really I just want to get away from the daily outrage.
 
McCain's justification of Palin saying 'Obama pals around wtih terrorists:
Millions of words are said in a campaign.

You know, cause accusing a presidential candidate of palling around with no one, but many terrorists, on numerous occasions, from your running mate, is such an off the cuff remark, such a benign statement with no repercussions, such a small detail.

What a Fuck.
 
AniHawk said:
Zogby polls are fueled by pure crazy.
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Well, yeah. Still, I can make fun of the crazy even better if I know how it's crazy.

Today's Zogby said:
Obama continues to win 19% support among conservative voters, while McCain wins only seven percent among liberals. Among moderates, a demographic that has substantially more Democrats than Republicans, Obama leads, 58% to 33% for McCain.
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So Obama leads by 19 with independents, and wins 12 points more Republicans than McCain wins Democrats. But only a 5-point lead overall. He must have Republicans weighted equal or greater than Democrats to get to the top line.
 
Slurpy said:
McCain's justification of Palin saying 'Obama pals around wtih terrorists:
Millions of words are said in a campaign.

You know, cause accusing a presidential candidate of palling around with no one, but many terrorists, on numerous occasions, from your running mate, is such an off the cuff remark, such a benign statement with no repercussions, such a small detail.

What a Fuck.
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Don't worry about it. It's all good. He's going to lose.
 
speculawyer said:
I'm just looking forward to ignoring politics and not having everything going to hell in a hand-basket. I want to sit back and spend my time & mind on other things . . . I'll just chill . . . . Obama's got this.
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This. I need about a six month break before I'll care again. I have some of the worst campaign fatigue in my history, and that's with unusually backing the winning candidate.
 
GhaleonEB said:
So Obama leads by 19 with independents, and wins 12 points more Republicans than McCain wins Democrats. But only a 5-point lead overall. He must have Republicans weighted equal or greater than Democrats to get to the top line.
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If I recall correctly, that's exactly what he's doing. For some reason, the phrase "3% more Republicans" keeps floating to the forefront of my mind when I read his polling.
 
People say "things", my friends. I say he pals around with terrorists, he says I'm losing my bearings. It's a tough campaign. Maybe his car will explode. The point is that I'm proud of the people who come to my rallies.
 
besada said:
This. I need about a six month break before I'll care again. I have some of the worst campaign fatigue in my history, and that's with unusually backing the winning candidate.
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I think everybody is burned out. There is just a huge desire to get it over with win or lose. I'm like a drug addict who is hooked on the smack but keeps on doing it to avoid withdrawal issues at this point. I don't even get a buzz anymore...
 
besada said:
This. I need about a six month break before I'll care again. I have some of the worst campaign fatigue in my history, and that's with unusually backing the winning candidate.
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Nooo. :(

Obama, like every other politician in a representative democracy, needs to be monitored and pressured to fulfill his promises.
 
I missed Brooks' column yesterday:

We’ve been watching Barack Obama for two years now, and in all that time there hasn’t been a moment in which he has publicly lost his self-control. This has been a period of tumult, combat, exhaustion and crisis. And yet there hasn’t been a moment when he has displayed rage, resentment, fear, anxiety, bitterness, tears, ecstasy, self-pity or impulsiveness.
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But over the past two years, Obama has never shown evidence of that. Instead, he has shown the same untroubled self-confidence day after day.

There has never been a moment when, at least in public, he seems gripped by inner turmoil. It’s not willpower or self-discipline he shows as much as an organized unconscious. Through some deep, bottom-up process, he has developed strategies for equanimity, and now he’s become a homeostasis machine.
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When Bob Schieffer asked him tough questions during the debate Wednesday night, he would step back and describe the broader situation. When John McCain would hit him with some critique — even about fetuses being left to die on a table — he would smile in amusement at the political game they were playing. At every challenging moment, his instinct was to self-remove and establish an observer’s perspective.

Through the debate, he was reassuring and self-composed. McCain, an experienced old hand, would blink furiously over the tension of the moment, but Obama didn’t reveal even unconscious signs of nervousness. There was no hint of an unwanted feeling.

They say we are products of our environments, but Obama, the sojourner, seems to go through various situations without being overly touched by them. Over the past two years, he has been the subject of nearly unparalleled public worship, but far from getting drunk on it, he has become less grandiloquent as the campaign has gone along.
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He doesn’t have F.D.R.’s joyful nature or Reagan’s happy outlook, but he is analytical. That’s why this William Ayers business doesn’t stick. He may be liberal, but he is never wild. His family is bourgeois. His instinct is to flee the revolutionary gesture in favor of the six-point plan.

This was not evident back in the “fierce urgency of now” days, but it is now. And it is easy to sketch out a scenario in which he could be a great president. He would be untroubled by self-destructive demons or indiscipline. With that cool manner, he would see reality unfiltered. He could gather — already has gathered — some of the smartest minds in public policy, and, untroubled by intellectual insecurity, he could give them free rein. Though he is young, it is easy to imagine him at the cabinet table, leading a subtle discussion of some long-term problem.
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Of course he presents another less flattering scenario, but perhaps "only to make himself feel better" as he confessed once after being called out by Obama.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/opinion/17brooks.html
 
besada said:
This. I need about a six month break before I'll care again. I have some of the worst campaign fatigue in my history, and that's with unusually backing the winning candidate.
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Well you'll have the month and a half after the election.

I think the Bush pardons will be fucking epic.
 
AniHawk said:
Zogby polls are fueled by pure crazy.
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They've stooped to push polling. I wouldn't even bother with Zogby after the shit they're pulling right now. Can we vote on not regurgitating Zogby numbers anymore, that is unless you think this shit is fair.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/15/13844/116/677/630882

lease read the following statements and indicate for each whether they would influence you to be much more likely, somewhat more likely, somewhat less likely, or much less likely to vote for Barack Obama

If you knew Barack Obama supported a plan to give driver's licenses to illegal immigrants would you be
Much more likely to vote for him
Somewhat more likely to vote for him
Somewhat less likely to vote for him
Much less likely to vote for him
It doesn't change my vote
Not sure

If you knew Barack Obama supported a plan to provide Social Security benefits to illegal immigrants, would you be
Much more likely to vote for him
Somewhat more likely to vote for him
Somewhat less likely to vote for him
Much less likely to vote for him
It doesn't change my vote
Not sure

If you knew Barack Obama supported a plan to give government health care coverage to illegal immigrants, would you be
Much more likely to vote for him
Somewhat more likely to vote for him
Somewhat less likely to vote for him
Much less likely to vote for him
It doesn't change my vote
Not sure

If you knew Barack Obama supported the handgun ban in Washington DC (which was later overturned by the Supreme Court), would you be
Much more likely to vote for him
Somewhat more likely to vote for him
Somewhat less likely to vote for him
Much less likely to vote for him
It doesn't change my vote
Not sure

If you knew Barack Obama supported the right to the procedure called partial birth abortion, would you be
Much more likely to vote for him
Somewhat more likely to vote for him
Somewhat less likely to vote for him
Much less likely to vote for him
It doesn't change my vote
Not sure

Of the following issues which of the following is most likely to influence your vote?
A candidate who supports drivers licenses for illegal immigrants
A candidate who supports social security for illegal immigrants
A candidate who supports health care for illegal immigrants
A candidate who supports a total ban on handguns
A candidate who supports the right to the procedure called partial birth abortion
None, my mind is made up
Not sure
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kevm3 said:
Dave gave McCain a spanking there. It's pathetic that comedians are doing more honest interviews than 'reporters'.
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The liddy example has been out there forever. It is a bit sad it took Dave to ask the question since the McCain camp is always the one talking about associations. Same with Palin and her husband and the AIP.
 
Obama matches Kerry's white vote from 2004, points too a win. Nice.

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=alxJqkQuLUac&refer=home

Oct. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Barack Obama is running even with or ahead of 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry in support by white voters. If those numbers hold, with a changing electorate, pollsters say Obama will win on Nov. 4.

Obama trails Republican John McCain among white voters by 13 percentage points, the same margin by which Kerry trailed President George W. Bush in mid-October 2004, according to the latest Bloomberg/Los Angeles Times poll.

``If Obama matches Kerry's numbers with white voters, he's in, comfortably,'' said Dick Bennett, a pollster with Manchester, New Hampshire-based American Research Group.

Obama, the first black major-party presidential nominee, is benefiting from an electorate that looks different than it did four years ago. Blacks and Hispanics will represent bigger shares of the voters who cast ballots next month, and Obama is getting more support from those groups than Kerry did in 2004. First-time voters favor Obama by 24 percentage points in the new Bloomberg/Los Angeles Times poll.

The Democrat's strength with young and minority voters illustrates why McCain must keep, and probably increase, Bush's 57 percent share of 2004's white vote.
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Stoney Mason said:
The liddy example has been out there forever. It is a bit sad it took Dave to ask the question since the McCain camp is always the one talking about associations. Same with Palin and her husband and the AIP.
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I found it telling how McCain would start off answering, his instinct is to lie, then he thinks better of it as he realizes how easily he will be called out on it. ie. if he was aware of the 'palling around with terrorists' line- he actually had to think for a few seconds before answering that he was aware of it. The liddy response is equally pathetic.
 
Charred Greyface said:
Nooo. :(

Obama, like every other politician in a representative democracy, needs to be monitored and pressured to fulfill his promises.
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One thing I've always liked about Obama is his pragmatism and hard-headedness to remain loyal to his cause.

If you watched the PBS Frontline story on Obama, it showed that when Obama was picked as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review - a lot of people thought that he'd change the rules to allow more minorities, especially African Americans, to get more of the big editorial and big scoops.

That didn't happen at all - what all of them said was this, Obama was focused on making the best publication of the Harvard Law Review as possible.
In other words, Obama will always appoint people he thinks are best fit to do the tasks required.

This is a big reason why Obama picked Biden of all the other candidates: someone who speaks directly to middle class and working class white America, an experienced politician, and someone who fills nicely that foreign policy points that McCain has.

In other words, while Obama is a pragmatist that will pay respect to the people who've helped him, he is hardheaded-ly set to his idealogue.
That is, someone who believes that those who have more, should sacrifice a bit and help more of those who are not in the position to even lift themselves up.
I think this is why he started out with community organizing first, and has always kept using community organizing mottos in organizing his volunteers and staffs.
 
Stoney Mason said:
The liddy example has been out there forever. It is a bit sad it took Dave to ask the question since the McCain camp is always the one talking about associations. Same with Palin and her husband and the AIP.
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This is why it requires so much discipline NOT to run a negative campaign- which is why Im so impressed by Obama's. Its one thing if the other side abides by the same rules- its something else if they constantly throw shit at you to see what sticks. The media's general way of fucntioning is simply to 'parrot' the talking point of the campaign, then get their pundits to 'analyze' the shit out of it. The reason the media didn't give a shit about Liddy is because the Obama camp never brought it up- which they easily could have, and which would have guaranteed it a news cycle or two. After being baselessly smeared with Ayers, it would have been very easy, and understandable to do. But they stayed above that shit.
 
oh Utah.


http://thedailyuniverse.wordpress.com/2008/10/10/hitler-and-obama/
My wife and I took a trip down to St. George this weekend and we had an opportunity to talk with a great uncle who lived in Austria during World War II. He remembered he was six years old when he heard Hitler speak for the first time. He told us he had a very distinct feeling of how evil Hitler was. The conversation switched to politics later on and he told us that he had the exact same feeling when he heard Obama speak for the first time. There’s the common saying that those who don’t learn from history are bound to repeat it. I’m not a hard-core Republican or anything like that, but since he received the same revelation for these two people, shouldn’t we be doing something?

Christian Anderson - St. George, Utah
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I'd say never change, but I know you wont anyway.
 
ronito said:
I'd say never change, but I know you wont anyway.
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It's tough. On one hand, the fear and anguish that these folks are feeling is absolutely delicious. I can actually feel my soul smiling when I read about them. (can you tell that I'm bitter?)

On the other hand, these are the kind of dark, scary thoughts that lead to uglier things..
 
ronito said:
oh Utah.


http://thedailyuniverse.wordpress.com/2008/10/10/hitler-and-obama/


I'd say never change, but I know you wont anyway.
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So an Austrian who managed to live through the horrors of the repressive Nazi regime moved to UTAH, of all places, and has a problem with the way Obama speaks? Now, I know this story is total generic BS, the same as the lame ass e-mails that get spammed around about "My granfather blah, blah bullshit" but still couldn't they have come up with something better than the tired "Obama is like Hitler" BS?

Now by their equation, and I'm using their because lets be honest there is no fucking Austrian in Utah, George bush has got to be the best damn thing that happened to this country since Jesus. Seriously?
 
Well, that Al Smith Dinner was awesome. McCain and Obama both hit it out of the park (Obama especially; his jokes were hysterical, and his delivery was pretty damn good).

I'd love to see Obama telling more jokes, to be honest. He seems like a pretty damn funny guy.
 
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Well, that Al Smith Dinner was awesome. McCain and Obama both hit it out of the park (Obama especially; his jokes were hysterical, and his delivery was pretty damn good).

I'd love to see Obama telling more jokes, to be honest. He seems like a pretty damn funny guy.
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Does anyone actually believe that either one of them actually wrote those jokes?
 
SoulPlaya said:
Does anyone actually believe that either one of them actually wrote those jokes?
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Are you kidding? No, but still fun to watch. Do they invite any other Black people to this dinner?
 
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