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Politicans, Lawyers and Creationism vs. Evolution....

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explodet

Member
... everything that makes America great.

http://www.alligator.org/pt2/050323freedom.php
http://www.flsenate.gov/session/ind...fo&Mode=Bills&SubMenu=1&Year=2005&billnum=837

TALLAHASSEE — Republicans on the House Choice and Innovation Committee voted along party lines Tuesday to pass a bill that aims to stamp out “leftist totalitarianism” by “dictator professors” in the classrooms of Florida’s universities.

The Academic Freedom Bill of Rights, sponsored by Rep. Dennis Baxley, R-Ocala, passed 8-to-2 despite strenuous objections from the only two Democrats on the committee.

The bill has two more committees to pass before it can be considered by the full House.

While promoting the bill Tuesday, Baxley said a university education should be more than “one biased view by the professor, who as a dictator controls the classroom,” as part of “a misuse of their platform to indoctrinate the next generation with their own views.”

The bill sets a statewide standard that students cannot be punished for professing beliefs with which their professors disagree. Professors would also be advised to teach alternative “serious academic theories” that may disagree with their personal views.

According to a legislative staff analysis of the bill, the law would give students who think their beliefs are not being respected legal standing to sue professors and universities.

Students who believe their professor is singling them out for “public ridicule” – for instance, when professors use the Socratic method to force students to explain their theories in class – would also be given the right to sue.

“Some professors say, ‘Evolution is a fact. I don’t want to hear about Intelligent Design (a creationist theory), and if you don’t like it, there’s the door,’” Baxley said, citing one example when he thought a student should sue.

Rep. Dan Gelber, D-Miami Beach, warned of lawsuits from students enrolled in Holocaust history courses who believe the Holocaust never happened.

Similar suits could be filed by students who don’t believe astronauts landed on the moon, who believe teaching birth control is a sin or even by Shands medical students who refuse to perform blood transfusions and believe prayer is the only way to heal the body, Gelber added.

“This is a horrible step,” he said. “Universities will have to hire lawyers so our curricula can be decided by judges in courtrooms. Professors might have to pay court costs — even if they win — from their own pockets. This is not an innocent piece of legislation.”

The staff analysis also warned the bill may shift responsibility for determining whether a student’s freedom has been infringed from the faculty to the courts.

But Baxley brushed off Gelber’s concerns. “Freedom is a dangerous thing, and you might be exposed to things you don’t want to hear,” he said. “Being a businessman, I found out you can be sued for anything. Besides, if students are being persecuted and ridiculed for their beliefs, I think they should be given standing to sue.”

During the committee hearing, Baxley cast opposition to his bill as “leftists” struggling against “mainstream society.”

“The critics ridicule me for daring to stand up for students and faculty,” he said, adding that he was called a McCarthyist.

Baxley later said he had a list of students who were discriminated against by professors, but refused to reveal names because he felt they would be persecuted.

Rep. Eleanor Sobel, D-Hollywood, argued universities and the state Board of Governors already have policies in place to protect academic freedom. Moreover, a state law outlining how professors are supposed to teach would encroach on the board’s authority to manage state schools.

“The big hand of state government is going into the universities telling them how to teach,” she said. “This bill is the antithesis of academic freedom.”

But Baxley compared the state’s universities to children, saying the legislature should not give them money without providing “guidance” to their behavior.

“Professors are accountable for what they say or do,” he said. “They’re accountable to the rest of us in society … All of a sudden the faculty think they can do what they want and shut us out. Why is it so unheard of to say the professor shouldn’t be a dictator and control that room as their totalitarian niche?”

In an interview before the meeting, Baxley said “arrogant, elitist academics are swarming” to oppose the bill, and media reports misrepresented his intentions.

“I expect to be out there on my own pretty far,” he said. “I don’t expect to be part of a team.”
Have at it, boys and girls!
 

ksinghsf

Member
"Students who believe their professor is singling them out for “public ridicule” – for instance, when professors use the Socratic method to force students to explain their theories in class – would also be given the right to sue."

:lol
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
How can someone not believe in evolution?

Sure, maybe there's disagreement with a starting point -- creationism vs apes/whatever. But to deny that we evolve is nonsense.

If we don't evolve, why do children have different and sometimes improved traits over their parents. Over time, these traits build up -- hence the differences between asians, blacks, whites, etc.

Hell, look at dogs and all the varieties they come in.
 

AntoneM

Member
here's the rub... if a student doesn't like the way a professor teaches a class they can choose not to attend classes taught by that professor, they can choose not to attend that school. The student can choose to do all sorts of things to avoid such a situation. The same thing applies to the University, they can choose to hire the professor, they can choose what classes the professor teaches. There is no obligation for the professor to changes his/her teaching methods, if the University doesn't like what the professor is doing they can choose to fire him/her. The only time a problem could arise is if the University gives the professor tenure, but even then the University can technically fire him/her it's just really hard, plus as I stated above the student can choose not to take courses by that professor or choose to attend a different school. It's not like it's mandatory public education.
 

G4life98

Member
"Students who believe their professor is singling them out for “public ridicule” – for instance, when professors use the Socratic method to force students to explain their theories in class – would also be given the right to sue."

:lol

best...quote...evar :lol
 

Piecake

Member
So let me get this straight, some rebulicans want to limit lawsuits on doctors and put a cap on the settlement, but they are all for suing a state college thats already badly funded? Are they idiots? That makes no sense, and in the long run if this bill passes, which i doubt it will, will just force state colleges to raise tuition to an ungodly amount to pay for all these stupid lawsuis. Guess, repulicans really want just the elite going to college...
 
It's ridiculous the amount of hypocrisy that's being shown by Repubs this week alone. I guess lawsuits are fine when it isn't corporations taking the hit. Disgusting.

Gonaria said:
That makes no sense, and in the long run if this bill passes, which i doubt it will, will just force state colleges to raise tuition to an ungodly amount to pay for all these stupid lawsuis. Guess, repulicans really want just the elite going to college...

Don't think for a second that isn't their goddamned intention.
 

NLB2

Banned
G4life98 said:
best...quote...evar :lol
nah, this one's better:

“The critics ridicule me for daring to stand up for students and faculty,” he said, adding that he was called a McCarthyist.

Baxley later said he had a list of students who were discriminated against by professors, but refused to reveal names because he felt they would be persecuted.
This sounds like a joke on the Daily Show.

Sal Paradise Jr said:
Don't think for a second that isn't their goddamned intention.
Its not their intention; they are not too stupid to understand the importance of the education system; without university system and things like the G.I. bill funding education for large sections of the population, the rich would be no where near as rich as they are now. This probably won't become law, but it will look good to thier supporters.
 

Do The Mario

Unconfirmed Member
teh_pwn said:
How can someone not believe in evolution?


Guess you missed that 4 page evolution thread we had a while back, we have religious wacko’s on GAF.

Random Zealot: It’s totally impossible for things to evolve

DTM: No it’s not can be proven in simple bacterial experiments

Random Zealot: Impossible for genetic material to change

DTM: No it’s not (provides examples) how do you account for genetic diversity?

RZ: Impossible god loves me.

DTM: You are ignorant

Mod: TAG’ed me
 

Monk

Banned
Well, I think everyone has a right to belive in what they want. My parents and brother both believe in creationism, but they are happy the way they are. What right do I have to ridicule them?
 

Jeffahn

Member
I'm all for this as long as it applies to ministers/evangelists etc. aswell. Can't wait to sue if my next Sunday Sermon doesn't inspire to go postal at the local supermarket.

...
 

Zaptruder

Banned
Monk said:
Well, I think everyone has a right to belive in what they want. My parents and brother both believe in creationism, but they are happy the way they are. What right do I have to ridicule them?

Right? You have the duty to tell them better!
 

Monk

Banned
I hope you are joking. Completely shatter their belief in God, so that they can be miserable(their belief in god is what is holding them together, my dad lost both his kidneys and has to dialysis and my mom just stresses over everything)?
 

Jeffahn

Member
If you're in Med School you can make some bucks by saying that you believe in 'creationist medicine'; some material provided below:

"These are the regulations for the diseased person at the time of his ceremonial cleansing, when he is brought to the priest:
The priest is to go outside the camp and examine him. If the person has been healed of his infectious skin disease, the priest shall order that two live clean birds and some cedar wood, scarlet yarn and hyssop be brought for the one to be cleansed.
Then the priest shall order that one of the birds be killed over fresh water in a clay pot. He is then to take the live bird and dip it, together with the cedar wood, the scarlet yarn and the hyssop, into the blood of the bird that was killed over the fresh water.
Seven times he shall sprinkle the one to be cleansed of the infectious disease and pronounce him clean. Then he is to release the live bird in the open fields.
“The person to be cleansed must wash his clothes, shave off all his hair and bathe with water; then he will be ceremonially clean. After this he may come into the camp, but he must stay outside his tent for seven days.
On the seventh day he must shave off all his hair; he must shave his head, his beard, his eyebrows and the rest of his hair. He must wash his clothes and bathe himself with water, and he will be clean.
“On the eighth day he must bring two male lambs and one ewe lamb a year old, each without defect, along with three-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil for a grain offering, and one log of oil.
The priest who pronounces him clean shall present both the one to be cleansed and his offerings before the LORD at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting.
“Then the priest is to take one of the male lambs and offer it as a guilt offering, along with the log of oil; he shall wave them before the LORD as a wave offering.
He is to slaughter the lamb in the holy place where the sin offering and the burnt offering are slaughtered. Like the sin offering, the guilt offering belongs to the priest; it is most holy.
The priest is to take some of the blood of the guilt offering and put it on the lobe of the right ear of the one to be cleansed, on the thumb of his right hand and on the big toe of his right foot.
The priest shall then take some of the log of oil, pour it in the palm of his own left hand, dip his right forefinger into the oil in his palm, and with his finger sprinkle some of it before the LORD seven times.
The priest is to put some of the oil remaining in his palm on the lobe of the right ear of the one to be cleansed, on the thumb of his right hand and on the big toe of his right foot, on top of the blood of the guilt offering.
The rest of the oil in his palm the priest shall put on the head of the one to be cleansed and make atonement for him before the LORD.
“Then the priest is to sacrifice the sin offering and make atonement for the one to be cleansed from his uncleanness. After that, the priest shall slaughter the burnt offering and offer it on the altar, together with the grain offering, and make atonement for him, and he will be clean.
“If, however, he is poor and cannot afford these, he must take one male lamb as a guilt offering to be waved to make atonement for him, together with a tenth of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil for a grain offering, a log of oil, and two doves or two young pigeons, which he can afford, one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering.
“On the eighth day he must bring them for his cleansing to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting, before the LORD.
The priest is to take the lamb for the guilt offering, together with the log of oil, and wave them before the LORD as a wave offering. He shall slaughter the lamb for the guilt offering and take some of its blood and put it on the lobe of the right ear of the one to be cleansed, on the thumb of his right hand and on the big toe of his right foot. The priest is to pour some of the oil into the palm of his own left hand, and with his right forefinger sprinkle some of the oil from his palm seven times before the LORD.
Some of the oil in his palm he is to put on the same places he put the blood of the guilt offering—on the lobe of the right ear of the one to be cleansed, on the thumb of his right hand and on the big toe of his right foot.
The rest of the oil in his palm the priest shall put on the head of the one to be cleansed, to make atonement for him before the LORD.
Then he shall sacrifice the doves or the young pigeons, which the person can afford, one as a sin offering and the other as a burnt offering, together with the grain offering. In this way the priest will make atonement before the LORD on behalf of the one to be cleansed.” These are the regulations for anyone who has an infectious skin disease and who cannot afford the regular offerings for his cleansing."

...
 

DaMan121

Member
Socreges said:
I love that. I hope National Geographic is generally packaged tight at news-stands so Christians excitedly buy the magazine, get home, and open it up only to find "NO." on the first page. :lol

I'd actually really like to read that article. Hopefully they carry NG at my college.

Yeah, they bitched and moaned about it being deceiptful.. But then again, all the bs stories they spam us with, eg the student vs philosophy proffessor urban myths is perfectly legit.

I hope you are joking. Completely shatter their belief in God, so that they can be miserable(their belief in god is what is holding them together, my dad lost both his kidneys and has to dialysis and my mom just stresses over everything)?

You do realise that there are millions of Christians, and billions of other religious folk that accept evolution? The fact that bible mythology like the flood and creationism got debunked by actual believers 2 centuries ago should tell you something.
 

909er

Member
DaMan121 said:
Yeah, they bitched and moaned about it being deceiptful.. But then again, all the bs stories they spam us with, eg the student vs philosophy proffessor urban myths is perfectly legit.



You do realise that there are millions of Christians, and billions of other religious folk that accept evolution? The fact that bible mythology like the flood and creationism got debunked by actual believers 2 centuries ago should tell you something.

The problem is that the 20 million or so idiot Christians also happen to be the loudest. I guess they have more time to bitch what with unemployment and not having a GED or high school diploma and all.

God, I hate the Republican party right now. They bitch and moan about "big government" when a Democrat was president, but now that they control 2 of the 3 branches, they've become bigger than ANY Democrat has ever made the government, save maybe Roosevelt.
 

Monk

Banned
DaMan121 said:
You do realise that there are millions of Christians, and billions of other religious folk that accept evolution? The fact that bible mythology like the flood and creationism got debunked by actual believers 2 centuries ago should tell you something.

Yes, but they believe that the genesis story cannot be false because "it was given to moses by the holy spirit" crap.
 

Friend

Member
Republicans on the House Choice and Innovation Committee voted along party lines Tuesday to pass a bill that aims to stamp out “leftist totalitarianism” by “dictator professors” in the classrooms of Florida’s universities.

I knew professor Stalin was up to no good!
 
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