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[atr0cious]

Just wanted to chime in that it's a bit ironic that Clinton camp is rightfully upset at the intense character assassination going from Sander supporters yet are fighting fire with fire by painting him as lunatic megalomaniac that wants power or fame or whatever other nonsense. The amount of ridicule for any Bernie supporters here is just insufferable.

What world do you live in where telling someone they're naive and misguided is the same thing as doxxing and threatening people?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Just wanted to chime in that it's a bit ironic that Clinton camp is rightfully upset at the intense character assassination going from Sander supporters yet are fighting fire with fire by painting him as lunatic megalomaniac that wants power or fame or whatever other nonsense. The amount of ridicule for any Bernie supporters here is just insufferable.

Save it for a week when he isn't downplaying harassment and violence while attacking said victim of harassment with lies about her stealing Nevada delegates from him.

 

[Zornack]

Just wanted to chime in that it's a bit ironic that Clinton camp is rightfully upset at the intense character assassination going from Sander supporters yet are fighting fire with fire by painting him as lunatic megalomaniac that wants power or fame or whatever other nonsense. The amount of ridicule for any Bernie supporters here is just insufferable.

He's sitting by idly while his supporters and delegates dox, threaten and harass state officials, super delegates and Clinton supporters.

If you take issue with people calling him on his enabling bullshit then sorry, but enough is enough.

 

[Y2Kev]

Just wanted to chime in that it's a bit ironic that Clinton camp is rightfully upset at the intense character assassination going from Sander supporters yet are fighting fire with fire by painting him as lunatic megalomaniac that wants power or fame or whatever other nonsense. The amount of ridicule for any Bernie supporters here is just insufferable.

Does this have anything to do with the article in the OP? I mean we just had three days of really serious accusations being tossed around by people who obviously did not do their research-- that the process was corrupt, that it was unfair, that the caucus was "stolen"-- and the only thing you can say is that you find ridicule Bernie sanders fans face to be insufferable?

This is to say nothing of Bernie's wonderful condemnation of the fact that Roberta Lange has people leaving death threats on her personal cell phone all for (as the article demonstrates) absolutely nothing.

Sorry you feel ridiculed. This is really about the Nevada State Convention.

 

[conman]

It's unfortunate to see many of the strongest supporters of Sanders resorting to conspiratorial thinking. It's even worse to see members of his campaign staff playing to those paranoid theories. The fact is that most of those voters most disenfranchised in the US electoral process would be voting for Clinton (working-class and poor people of color).

I voted for Bernie in my primary, but it saddens me to see his campaign and his loudest supporters constantly playing the conspiracy card. It's the same strategy being used by the Trump campaign (though the Trump campaign has been able to play the paranoia card successfully since their conspiracy theories are so insanely racist that they can't be disproven through reason and empirical fact).

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Does this have anything to do with the article in the OP? I mean we just had three days of really serious accusations being tossed around by people who obviously did not do their research-- that the process was corrupt, that it was unfair, that the caucus was "stolen"-- and the only thing you can say is that you find ridicule Bernie sanders fans face to be insufferable?

This is to say nothing of Bernie's wonderful condemnation of the fact that Roberta Lange has people leaving death threats on her personal cell phone all for (as the article demonstrates) absolutely nothing.

Sorry you feel ridiculed. This is really about the Nevada State Convention.

I love your posts in the political threads. And they take on a great tone when imagining it is actually Hillary working as a MOD on GAF.

 

[Cipherr]

Every time.

Every time he gets called out on something, and rightfully so, It's straight to the "Yeah but what about....". Not that I blame anyone, Bernies camp did that exact same thing when mishandling this situation and the hacking incident too.

Anyways, speaking of pursuits of power:

NYTimes

While Mr. Sanders says he does not want Mr. Trump to win in November, his advisers and allies say he is willing to do some harm to Mrs. Clinton in the shorter term if it means he can capture a majority of the 475 pledged delegates at stake in California and arrive at the Philadelphia convention with maximum political power

Lol, to what end exactly? Just to say you have it? He knows he has no path to the nom; what exactly is this 'power' going to do for him?

 

[excelsiorlef]

He's sitting by idly while his supporters and delegates dox, threaten and harass state officials, super delegates and Clinton supporters.

If you take issue with people calling him on his enabling bullshit then sorry, but enough is enough.

I'd argue he's not all that idle with Nevada. He actively accused Lange of fraud and voter suppression and causing him to lose delegates as part of his response to the harassment she suffered. That in fact was the focus of his response, to talk about how corrupt she is.

I know I've said this a few times but it bares repeating Sanders actively made it more likely that people harassing Lange will feel justified in harassing her and did so with blatant lies.

 

[BlastProcessing]

He's sitting by idly while his supporters and delegates dox, threaten and harass state officials, super delegates and Clinton supporters.

If you take issue with people calling him on his enabling bullshit then sorry, but enough is enough.

Technically he isn't sitting idly by. His campaign manager is out there saying that people don't have the right to feel threatened by harassment. So he is pretty much in the middle of it!

 

[Suikoguy]

It's unfortunate to see many of the strongest supporters of Sanders resorting to conspiratorial thinking. It's even worse to see members of his campaign staff playing to those paranoid theories. The fact is that most of those voters most disenfranchised in the US electoral process would be voting for Clinton (working-class and poor people of color).

I voted for Bernie in my primary, but it saddens me to see his campaign and his loudest supporters constantly playing the conspiracy card. It's the same strategy being used by the Trump campaign (though the Trump campaign has been able to play the paranoia card successfully since their conspiracy theories are so insanely racist that they can't be disproven through reason and empirical fact).

Republicans were openly campaigning to find a way to take the nomination away from Trump for months, his argument had more merit than Sanders ever did. It's the main reason Cruz dropping out so soon was such a surprise.

 

[CDX]

What a well researched article. It seems to go over most every complaint I've heard about online from pro-Sanders supporters.



I found this part especially interesting.

A constant complaint is that the party’s credentials committee unfairly disqualified 64 Sanders delegates — detailed in a "minority report" and read to delegates by a pro-Sanders credentials committee member.

Sanders supporters were upset because that number of delegates would have tipped the balance and presumably swung the two national delegates back to Sanders.

But there are a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings associated with the report, which was written and circulated by Sanders campaign staffers.

...

Magnus said the committee spent much of Saturday investigating the delegates called into question, and eventually seated six of them. The remaining 58 delegates were rejected because they were either not Democrats by May 1 or the party could not confirm their name or address.

"There was not a vetting process at county convention like the state level convention," Magnus said.

Importantly, the state party reported only eight of the rejected delegates even showed up to the convention, so even if they had been seated it would not have flipped the majority.

"It didn't affect the outcome in any way," Magnus said.

So of the 64 rejected. Only 8 bothered to show up to the convention.

 

[Tallshortman]

What a well researched article. It seems to go over most every complaint I've heard about online from pro-Sanders supporters.



I found this part especially interesting.


So of the 64 rejected. Only 8 bothered to show up to the convention.

It's definitely the establishment's fault that people couldn't bother to register for the party or actually confirm their own information.

 

[Xe4]

It's time for people to sit back and make honest self-assessments.

An overt fascist echoing Mussolini and calling for blatantly racist policies as the core of his platform is a candidate for President of the United States.

He is the candidate with a united party behind him.

Meanwhile the opposition, a group that ranges from modest progressives to extreme progressives, is the one having a wedge driven between it in the lead up to the general election because of ideological purity.

Hell of a time to be alive.

I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.
- Will Rogers

As true today as it was in the 1920s unfortunately. Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line : /

 

[Adaren]

So of the 64 rejected. Only 8 bothered to show up to the convention.

Nitpicking: Of the 64 "flagged" delegates, 14 showed up. 6 were seated.

Before the convention, 64 Sanders delegates were initially flagged as potentially invalid. 14 of the 64 showed up (50 no shows). Of the 14, 8 were rejected for various reasons (e.g. not being registered Democrat). The other 6 were approved and seated.

And, of course, the punchline is that the outcome wouldn't have changed even if all 14 were seated.

Politifact's numbers are consistent with the second statement that Nevada Dems made, the one in response to Sanders' accusations of fraud.

 

[kitschykitty]

Rolling Stone interviewed some of the people that called/texted Lange.

Do you worry that things you do reflect poorly on the campaign?

For me, obviously, that was sent in an emotional state. To call somebody criminal with no — I mean, I wasn't even there. All I did was [watch] 50 videos, [read] 100-plus testimonials, 40 interviews with people, people citing the rules that they broke. After you read and you materialize all of that and you aggregate it to a point that you can send somebody a text message, all I could think to say was that. I said that so that I could take a picture and put it on this group. I did it so I could make it go viral.

Sorry if this doesn't really belong here this seemed like the most current/relevant thread on the NV convention.

 

[Alucrid]

Rolling Stone interviewed some of the people that called/texted Lange.



Sorry if this doesn't really belong here this seemed like the most current/relevant thread on the NV convention.

lol at the guy answering his phone while driving, idiot

 

[TheSaddestSort]

Honestly at this point it's hard for me to argue that Bernie's campaign is anything other than a net negative. While I didn't have strong ties to either candidate at the start of the Democratic primaries (knew I wasn't voting Republican), I did feel that Bernie's potential for pushing Hillary further to the left would be a good thing. Unfortunately, his campaign has lost any good will it had with me through it's ongoing harassment of any group or individual it labels "the enemy".

 

[Takuhi]

Honestly at this point it's hard for me to argue that Bernie's campaign is anything other than a net negative. While I didn't have strong ties to either candidate at the start of the Democratic primaries (knew I wasn't voting Republican), I did feel that Bernie's potential for pushing Hillary further to the left would be a good thing. Unfortunately, his campaign has lost any good will it had with me through it's ongoing harassment of any group or individual it labels "the enemy".

Ugh, so true.
I remember how everyone was beaming after the first few debates when Democrats were clearly the party of civility and focus on the issues, while the Republicans were children tearing each other apart. I never imagined we'd end up here.

 

[Fenderputty]

No, we all left GAF political threads after getting bans.

It's okay, during my ban I actually went to r/Politics for the first time ever in my life and now I have a place to go when I want the truth.

This post made me laugh so hard when it probably should of made me sad.

 

[Alrus]

Just wanted to chime in that it's a bit ironic that Clinton camp is rightfully upset at the intense character assassination going from Sander supporters yet are fighting fire with fire by painting him as lunatic megalomaniac that wants power or fame or whatever other nonsense. The amount of ridicule for any Bernie supporters here is just insufferable.

Well how do you explain his attitude in the recent weeks?

Also what ridicule are Bernie supporters getting?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Ugh, so true.
I remember how everyone was beaming after the first few debates when Democrats were clearly the party of civility and focus on the issues, while the Republicans were children tearing each other apart. I never imagined we'd end up here.

I never thought it would get this bad but I tell ya I started getting nervous when Sanders spun the data theft incident as victimizing him and then the Planned Parenthood Establishment thing was when I realized Sanders is not a guy I could root for and it's just been downhill from there.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

No, we all left GAF political threads after getting bans.

It's okay, during my ban I actually went to r/Politics for the first time ever in my life and now I have a place to go when I want the truth.

r o f l

 

[royalan]

I never thought it would get this bad but I tell ya I started getting nervous when Sanders spun the data theft incident as victimizing him and then the Planned Parenthood Establishment thing was when I realized Sanders is not a guy I could root for and it's just been downhill from there.

Hillary already had my vote, but it was the demonizing of Planned Parenthood that made me first say "fuck this dude," and it really should have been obvious. An organization that does immeasurable good for low-income women who need medical/preventative care, that is constantly attacked by the right, under constant threat of violence, now being attacked by the left.

Bernie really should have been written off for that.

 

[The Technomancer]

Rolling Stone interviewed some of the people that called/texted Lange.



Sorry if this doesn't really belong here this seemed like the most current/relevant thread on the NV convention.

Yeah you know what buddy? This election has put me in a few emotional states as well. You know what I do? I stand up and I go for a fucking walk

 

[excelsiorlef]

Hillary already had my vote, but it was the demonizing of Planned Parenthood that made me first say "fuck this dude," and it really should have been obvious. An organization that does immeasurable good for low-income women who need medical/preventative care, that is constantly attacked by the right, under constant threat of violence, now being attacked by the left.

Bernie really should have been written off for that.

Instead it got a 22 page thread (made by yours truly) wherein many defended the remarks, many actually joined in in calling them part of the establishment, demanded to know why PP endorsed Clinton (man is that looking smart now eh?), oh and called to have me banned.

Fun times and that was January. It's been a steady roll deeper into the abyss since.

 

[chaobreaker]

I can't speak for every Sanders supporter, but I know he's not going to win. The way I see it, he's staying in because he said he was going to stay in until the last vote is cast. He's going to spread his message as much as he possibly can and hope it makes for a better future even if that future doesn't include him being president.

It's not petulance or stubbornness. It's convictions imo. I'm sure he (and I) believes he's doing what is best and what is right. Which is what he's done consistently throughout his life.

Anyone who causes divisiveness within the Democratic party by sowing conspiracy theories and turning a blind eye to the pugnacity of his more extreme supporters not a good guy, especially when it could empower a fascist like Trump in the general election.

Bernie is only causing more harm then good at this point. He doesn't even need to win this primary to spread his message. He needs to pick his battles.

 

[Jenov]

Rolling Stone interviewed some of the people that called/texted Lange.



Sorry if this doesn't really belong here this seemed like the most current/relevant thread on the NV convention.

" But I would say the true thing that really hooked me was when the bird landed on his podium. It was the first time that something political actually moved me, and it moved me to the point where I cried…. I'm a person that has a military dad, my parents got divorced, my grandmother had Parkinson's — I just had this very rough, challenging childhood where I was just kind of sad. It was such a sad childhood.... I was just a tough kid. I only cry in a funeral for family, and all of a sudden I'm 29, I see a man who I'm already just all about his campaign, and then the bird lands on his thing, and people's reaction — I connected. I connected to a moment with all those people about something just way different. "

OMFG. that stupid fucking bird. I knew some kooks would look at that as some cult-like symbol of God-Bernie and set off into kool-aid overdosing. Hill needs to bring a few cats to the next Bern rally.

 

[3phemeral]

" But I would say the true thing that really hooked me was when the bird landed on his podium. It was the first time that something political actually moved me, and it moved me to the point where I cried…. I'm a person that has a military dad, my parents got divorced, my grandmother had Parkinson's — I just had this very rough, challenging childhood where I was just kind of sad. It was such a sad childhood.... I was just a tough kid. I only cry in a funeral for family, and all of a sudden I'm 29, I see a man who I'm already just all about his campaign, and then the bird lands on his thing, and people's reaction — I connected. I connected to a moment with all those people about something just way different. "

OMFG. that stupid fucking bird. I knew some kooks would look at that as some cult-like symbol of God-Bernie and set off into kool-aid overdosing. Hill needs to bring a few cats to the next Bern rally.

After watching that video and the crowd's reaction to it, I was thinking the same thing. It was exploding all over my social media and couldn't fathom having that same response but...there it is.

 

[Metroidvania]

Rolling Stone interviewed some of the people that called/texted Lange.



Sorry if this doesn't really belong here this seemed like the most current/relevant thread on the NV convention.

What a bunch of knuckleheads trying to desperately not come off as the bad guy.

What I would say is I apologized, and I would again apologize to anybody for saying anything that may have been offensive or threatening. That was not the intended case. It may have [been] meant to be intimidating or to express anger, but it was not meant to be an actual threat, and I was not expecting people [would actually call] with death threats, because I heard some of those this morning on MSNBC

That's — I didn't text that right [in the text message screengrabbed above]. I should have ended that with: She has millions of people that she has to answer for, and everybody knows her number, where she lives. Like I said, that was not texted correctly, and I didn't mean that to be a threat.

But again, I am against personal threats, and that one text I sent with her address was only about her having to answer to millions of people. It was not meant as a physical threat.

Like, from a legal perspective… I didn't make it a direct threat. There's an implication, and I'm implying, right? I'm inferring that I could do something, but I was doing that to show — it was kind of just a, Hey, let's set the mood here and see if anything will happen.

Pieces of shiiiiit.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

What a bunch of knuckleheads trying to desperately not come off as the bad guy.

Pieces of shiiiiit.

It really is Gamergate all over again.

Thanks a lot Bernie, you worthless piece of shit.

 

[EatinOlives]

What a bunch of knuckleheads trying to desperately not come off as the bad guy.

Pieces of shiiiiit.

My favorite:

Like, from a legal perspective… I didn't make it a direct threat. There's an implication, and I'm implying, right? I'm inferring that I could do something, but I was doing that to show — it was kind of just a, Hey, let's set the mood here and see if anything will happen.

 

[IJoel]

Bernie's reaction to these kinds of occurrences is straight from Trump's book. Basically avoid discussing the facts about the situation: that no rules were broken or that they haven't changed in many years, and claim being wronged to stir his supporters in a frenzy and continue feeding the narrative that the DNC is against him.

It's very very disappointing.

 

[JackDT]

I was proud to vote for Sanders when his campaign was constantly hammering on issues. It was amazing to see.

Now he's complaining about political nonsense and using a bunch of bullshit attacks to gain any leverage possible. Ugh. Regretting my support. Where is the Bernie who was so focused on wealth inequality and other issues that he simply said "Americans are tired of hearing about Clinton's email."

 

[BanGy.nz]

The DNC needs to have a look at getting rid of caucasus, well Iowa can keep it a guess because they'd scream bloody murder if you tried to take that away from them.

 

[B-Dubs]

The DNC needs to have a look at getting rid of caucasus, well Iowa can keep it a guess because they'd scream bloody murder if you tried to take that away from them.

Actually due to higher turnout in recent years Iowa Dems are pushing for a primary.

 

[Wallach]

I was proud to vote for Sanders when his campaign was constantly hammering on issues. It was amazing to see.

Now he's complaining about political nonsense and using a bunch of bullshit attacks to gain any leverage possible. Ugh. Regretting my support. Where is the Bernie who was so focused on wealth inequality and other issues that he simply said "Americans are tired of hearing about Clinton's email."

I'll just say I am pretty glad Oregon is one of the late states to vote in the primary.

 

[BanGy.nz]

Actually due to higher turnout in recent years Iowa Dems are pushing for a primary.

Poor New Hampshire won't be the first at anything anymore. Sad!

 

[pigeon]

Caucuses exist because they're the cheapest form of primary.

"Getting rid" of caucuses means convincing somebody to pay for and run a primary election.

For legal reasons, all primaries are funded by state goverments. (Because the former system of charging high fees to get on the ballot was unconstitutional, see Bullock v. Carter.)

So basically what you guys want is to take over a bunch of state governments and mandate primary elections.

This does not seem like a bad idea necessarily, but it's not actually something that can easily be executed on.

 

[Suikoguy]

Caucuses exist because they're the cheapest form of primary.

"Getting rid" of caucuses means convincing somebody to pay for and run a primary election.

For legal reasons, all primaries are funded by state goverments. (Because the former system of charging high fees to get on the ballot was unconstitutional, see Bullock v. Carter.)

So basically what you guys want is to take over a bunch of state governments and mandate primary elections.

This does not seem like a bad idea necessarily, but it's not actually something that can easily be executed on.

What about the dem party running an all mail voting primary?
I did not know about the bolded part.

 

[danm999]

What's the deal with a state like Nebraska that holds a caucus then a non binding primary?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

My favorite:

That's exactly how I read it as. The dude is a sociopath, pure and simple

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

I left the Bernie camp once it became conspiratorial. I have no patience for conspiracy. Progressiveism should be a means to an end.
I'd rather have a politician who can make a mockery of a trial (Benghazi hearings), than idealism.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

No, we all left GAF political threads after getting bans.

It's okay, during my ban I actually went to r/Politics for the first time ever in my life and now I have a place to go when I want the truth.

OMFG my sides, my sides!

 

[Officerrob]

No, we all left GAF political threads after getting bans.

It's okay, during my ban I actually went to r/Politics for the first time ever in my life and now I have a place to go when I want the truth.

That is equal parts hysterical and sad. Enjoy your echo chamber I guess...

 

[boiled goose]

So I find the article a bit frustrating because it ignores the main complaint I have seen from the Sanders side.

The calls of the Voice votes.

The article says that the only person with authority to call the voicevotes is the chair which is true. The problem is that the voice votes were unclear!

As the article and many here have pointed out there were more Clinton delegates so if everyone towed the line a roll call would have probably had the same outcome.

That said, you can't use a voicevote if the voicevote is unclear... is it guaranteed every Hillary and Bernie delegate would have voted how their respective "leadership" wanted??

I don't like a voice vote being called when it's not clear just because you know one side should have it.

 

[Wilsongt]

r/SandersforPres response to this is amazingly predictable.

It's all Clinton propaganda, Politifact can't be trusted, trying to discredit the Bernie campaign, etc.

 

[Jebusman]

No, we all left GAF political threads after getting bans.

It's okay, during my ban I actually went to r/Politics for the first time ever in my life and now I have a place to go when I want the truth.

This sounds like a "I found Jesus" moment and I can't stop laughing. You're as likely to get sound political criticism from /pol/ as you are from r/Politics

I'm sorry America that you all have to deal with this shit. This entire election has just gone from entertaining to just disheartening.

 

[Oddish1]

So I find the article a bit frustrating because it ignores the main complaint I have seen from the Sanders side.

The calls of the Voice votes.

The article says that the only person with authority to call the voicevotes is the chair which is true. The problem is that the voice votes were unclear!

As the article and many here have pointed out there were more Clinton delegates so if everyone towed the line a roll call would have probably had the same outcome.

That said, you can't use a voicevote if the voicevote is unclear... is it guaranteed every Hillary and Bernie delegate would have voted how their respective "leadership" wanted??

I don't like a voice vote being called when it's not clear just because you know one side should have it.

I think the assumption that the article makes is that we have to assume to the chair the voice vote was clear since the chair ruled that it was, which is in the rules and and didn't get enough support to be changed.

 

[Koomaster]

So I find the article a bit frustrating because it ignores the main complaint I have seen from the Sanders side.

The calls of the Voice votes.

The article says that the only person with authority to call the voicevotes is the chair which is true. The problem is that the voice votes were unclear!

As the article and many here have pointed out there were more Clinton delegates so if everyone towed the line a roll call would have probably had the same outcome.

That said, you can't use a voicevote if the voicevote is unclear... is it guaranteed every Hillary and Bernie delegate would have voted how their respective "leadership" wanted??

I don't like a voice vote being called when it's not clear just because you know one side should have it.

You say the voice vote was unclear... yet it's the chairman who decides. If it was unclear to her or she thought she couldn't make a call then they would have had to go to a headcount. Instead she was able to make a determination.

Also the voice vote isn't to be determined over which side can yell the loudest which it seemed like some of the Bernard supporters believed and were trying to do. That's really the only thing that made it unclear in videos.

Anyway the whole event devolved in to chaos and calls into question the legitimacy of having caucuses to begin with. Voting in my primary was so easy and jovial with the people there. Seeing footage from this caucus makes it look like a damn madhouse. Why would anyone want that?

 

[Simon Belmont]

So I find the article a bit frustrating because it ignores the main complaint I have seen from the Sanders side.

The calls of the Voice votes.

The article says that the only person with authority to call the voicevotes is the chair which is true. The problem is that the voice votes were unclear!

As the article and many here have pointed out there were more Clinton delegates so if everyone towed the line a roll call would have probably had the same outcome.

That said, you can't use a voicevote if the voicevote is unclear... is it guaranteed every Hillary and Bernie delegate would have voted how their respective "leadership" wanted??

I don't like a voice vote being called when it's not clear just because you know one side should have it.

You can't determine that based on a few YouTube videos. Microphone placement matters a lot. Unless you have a video from the chairs perspective you're getting mostly local noise. Microphone placement matters when you are trying to accurately record sound.

Source: years of audio engineering experience.