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[Zeta Oni]

The DLC skills will be released all at once a bit after we're launched, and it won't be nearly as painful to get them all.

 

[Zedox]

The original launched at $20 in NA...so I expect the same or $5-$10 below that

The game launched at 20 bucks in 2004.

Its either gonna be cheaper, free, or part of a subscription.

Edit: Beaten

Well fuck it, i'm in this bitch full stroke! And it's Play Anywhere (and I think my old PC can handle it...HUZZAH!)

 

[Barrel Cannon]

Looks good to me. I played through the original and loved it. It's an acquired taste which is why I was always a bit shocked by the crazy reception it got on GAF for the remake and subsequent remaster news

 

[Gestault]

Well fuck it, i'm in this bitch full stroke! And it's Play Anywhere (and I think my old PC can handle it...HUZZAH!)

I doubt it's his style of game, but I'm passing along some components from my older PC to a family member. Reading over the specs, they'll be able to run the PC version no problem. I'm wondering if that's a perk of the unusual way they have to re-engineer this to work in the first place.

 

[fantomena]

Lots of good info

Very good and informative post. Thank you!

 

[KageMaru]

*snip*

Thank you for the post and info. I really appreciate the work you guys are doing.

It looks way rougher from what I remember and I played the shit outta that game. It looks like its slightly half assed TBH. They should've just used the modeling from the other developer they yanked it from and use that existing engine.

Edit: just saw those comparison shot to the old and remaster from another post. I'll wait and see how it holds up when it gets released

What about this looks half assed?

 

[GribbleGrunger]

It'll look so much better in 4K on the Scorpio.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

Just read the interview post and I agree with the "this is a player's game, not a looker's game". If you haven't played PD before I know it's worth giving this re-release a shot because trust me the game is still fun as hell. Skipping it because the visuals suck is unfortunate for those who never played it.

 

[origamipirate]

Honestly, just getting released with online play was all I needed. 30fps was expected. Arbitrary resolution is good to hear.

The game is godlike. The card game aspect makes it a hard game for the uninitiated to appreciate from just a video look.

This is EXACTLY how I feel. PD is just one of those games you need to PLAY. It might not be the prettiest, but there's nothing else quite like it. This package is more than enough for me, what with the proper remake having been cancelled. (which I'll be fiveever salty about)

 

[LKSmash]

Some people just can't enjoy or let others enjoy anything. I don't know how y'all get through life being so cynical.

I'm looking forward to diving into this whenever it drops. Completely missed this back in the OG days.

 

[Spade]

A new PD would be amazing to see. Hoping this remake leads to people seeing how cool and unique PD really was.

All the deck building and skill stuff would be a real crowd pleaser in today's market. People love playing card games and people love punching stuff in the face!

Yup. Really hoping this possibly leads to something in the long term. Customizing your arsenal and trying out different strategies for scenarios that may occur was always fun so I def hope it pleases people Can't wait to see some of the crazier things people have in mind.

 

[Grief.exe]

A developer having to come in and defend some basic realities is frankly embarrassing for the Neogaf community.

I'm guessing it's all emulator based. I don't know how else they could do it.

Not likely.

Not having the source code happens frequently from games from that era where storage was a premium. They likely reverse engineered the game running in a DX8 environment, then ported to DX11.

...And prayed

Reverse engineering from the still-available game binaries, and praying to high heaven that it actually works.

 

[Durock]

Wait, they did this without having access to the source code? How?

Code Mystics is made up of a team of highly talented developers who have been working in the industry for decades. They're also the team responsible for getting both Classic Killer Instinct games running on Xbox One, with online play added. They're awesome!

Edit: They also assisted Rare with getting some of the games in Rare Replay to work properly, like Battletoads for instance.

 

[Figments]

Wait, they did this without having access to the source code? How?

Reverse engineering from the still-available game binaries, and praying to high heaven that it actually works.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

It'll look so much better in 4K on the Scorpio.

Every game will.

 

[Zeta Oni]

Just got to the part about finding the silk-screens for the original disc pressings when they were doing research. That's awesome.

Would you mind if I use these .gifs for the OT?

I was just about to download the video and make some, but yours are really well done and already here.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Let me clear the air a bit. I'm Adam Isgreen (mods feel free to verify), the guy talking in the interview.

My bad for not correcting Nick immediately on remaster vs. re-release. We had a fire drill go off during the interview (random, yes), and that certainly disrupted the flow of the conversation, as we picked up in the middle after I could get back in the building.

My personal story on PD is that I missed it on the original Xbox. I'm pretty ashamed of that since I adore all of Futatsugi-san's games, have all of the Panzers in both Japanese and English, including Saga (SEGA GIVE IT TO CODE MYSTICS!), and I somehow missed this game.

I first played it after hearing Phil mention that he constantly gets asked about it by press / fans on Twitter. Grabbed it on 360 BC. After the first hour I thought "what is all the fuss about?". It starts slow and doesn't pick up until you get past Chapter 2 and can build arsenals (decks), which can be a good two hours into the game. Once that happens in campaign, and when you start to play multiplayer, this light goes on and you realize how deep and amazing this game is at its heart. 13 years and there's no perfect deck to the game. Stick skill and deck planning are equally as important. Teamwork is insanely rewarding. There's a skill that does anything you can possibly imagine you could do in arena-based combat.

Consider me converted. I get it now. More people need to grok this game. I'm part of the cult, and that's OK, because it's a great cult to be in.

The game is a re-release of the 2004 game with improvements that were possible to do without having final source code. I get that many just don't care about that point (should you need to?) but it is what it is and it is a huge deal to not have access to source yet try to improve things anyway. Could we have done more if we had working final source code? Yes, without a doubt, but that wasn't the case.

Let me add that Code Mystics (the development team) are absolute ninjas. This was a 2004 4:3 game. They cracked open and rewrote the renderer, fixed the culling (making the screen display 16x9 is only the first part of the issue), added LIVE support, enabled easy balance tuning, got cross-play working, re-enabled hundreds of custom shaders and VFX (DX8 to DX11 is not a fun conversion, I've learned), made UI changes, and got the framerate to a massively stable 30 FPS on any machine / platform, all while not being able to truly modify the game at its core. That is a feat. Likely you have to be in development to appreciate that, but it's not easy work.

Why isn't it 60 FPS?
The entire engine was built around the game running at 30 FPS. Everything in the code and data is either frames @ 30, assumes 30, or hard-coded to expect 30 FPS.

The frame rate averages 30 FPS now on a wide range of systems. The worst dips we've seen are to 26/27 in certain moments. This is massively improved from the original (for those that played it) which would drop into the teens constantly on destruction events.

Here's PC min-specs:
OS: Windows 10 64-bit
Processor: Intel Core2 Duo E6550 @ 2.33GHz | AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5600+
Memory: 1 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650 | AMD Radeon HD 7750
DirectX: Version 11
Network: Broadband Internet connection

It's an XPA title, so cross-play and cross-saves are supported.

Why original assets?
Because we didn't have source is the major reason, and also because for a 2004 game, it holds up well in comparison to other games from that time. That's subjective of course, but we're trying to capture and preserve what PD was, not re-create it. It was funky, certainly, and that's part of its DNA.

Why wasn't a date / price announced?
We're re-releasing PD because we love its unique gameplay and style. Everyone here at MS wants PD to get a chance to be played, so sometimes dates, price, and how to get it broad exposure is debated a lot. Gold? Not? Free? Not? Other programs? It goes back and forth, and many different groups are in that discussion. The short of it is that we want everyone to be able to play PD, so you can expect it'll be priced accordingly.

OMG there's micro-transactions?!
Yes, to accelerate multiplayer deck building. It is completely optional. The campaign gets you a lot of skills and credits to use just by playing through it. You also earn skills and credits just by playing MP as well. PD already has a skill shop, credits, random "junk" packs, rare skills, and everything you'd seen in games today -- and it did all that in 2004.

There's also free skills and a deck case you get to start MP off with, so that if you don't want to play the campaign, you don't have to.

Graphics are dated, meme.jpg, etc.
Yep! It's a game from 2004. We preserved its look, but really you shouldn't be hung up on looks here because this is a player's game, not a looker's game. Design-wise and mechanically, you will not find another game that plays like it, even today (closest in feeling is MOBAs, actually).

Sometimes (well, OK, often) we make games to make money, but this re-release isn't focused on that. It's about recognizing something unique and novel, and allowing more people to discover it. PD's play - especially multiplayer - is completely unique and (IMO) very, very fun. It never got a chance to prove that on its original (limited) release, so now more people get to discover it, which is all we want out of it.

So I'll simply close by saying play first, then judge. Feel free to tweet me your thoughts once it's out (@Ishmae1) and I'll be happy to discuss it with you.

Thanks for the information. I got a question if you're able to answer. Is there a possibility we'll see more OG Xbox games like Otogi, Crimson Skies, or Jet Set Radio Future get the same re-release treatment? I hope passion projects like this happen more often.

 

[Gestault]

Would you mind if I use these .gifs for the OT?

I was just about to download the video and make some, but yours are really well done and already here.

Please, go ahead. The first page has a few more (w/ an accidental double in there).

 

[Hockeymac18]

Keep in mind, this is the second attempt at this project within it's announcement. A lot of money has been wasted in this game being remade.

This is not a remake. But I see your point - there have been sunk costs relating to this IP lately. Perhaps they felt the low costs of a re-release would help recover some of the lost costs of the now-cancelled remake.


Some of the comments in here are a little harsh...it's a game from 2004, what do you expect? It actually looks pretty great considering how old it is. I never played it back then, so I'm interested to try it out.

 

[Icebergslim]

All this talk of graphics when Phantom Dust will have more multiplayer depth than any game released this year. This is an action/figting game meets tcg.

You can combo moves, juggle and lay down environmental effects. You can even beat your opponent without actually landing a killing blow.

With so many different skills you can use throughout the match no game plays exactly the same.

Also the original game was 20$ brand new. I expect the same price which is a steal considering the account of hours you can put it.

 

[HStallion]

If PD did incredible I wonder if MS would ever be interested in trying to get the original creator, Yukio Futatsugi, back to make a sequel? I'm guessing this would never happen considering where MS is today as well as where the XBox brand and system stands. Still it would be cool to see the originator come back and given the chance to make a real deal sequel.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

No source code? Incredible job by the dev team updating it!

 

[Zeta Oni]

Please, go ahead. The first page has a few more (w/ an accidental double in there).

Thank you very much

 

[Gestault]

No source code? Incredible job by the dev team updating it!

My fingers are crossed this may mean the potential for more cross-gen projects that previously would have been too difficult without actual legacy source code. There are a handful I want that fall into that boat.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

I'm in. This looks quirky and fun. I'm a sucker for cyberpunk motif anyways.

 

[Zyae]

Let me clear the air a bit. I'm Adam Isgreen (mods feel free to verify), the guy talking in the interview.

My bad for not correcting Nick immediately on remaster vs. re-release. We had a fire drill go off during the interview (random, yes), and that certainly disrupted the flow of the conversation, as we picked up in the middle after I could get back in the building.

My personal story on PD is that I missed it on the original Xbox. I'm pretty ashamed of that since I adore all of Futatsugi-san's games, have all of the Panzers in both Japanese and English, including Saga (SEGA GIVE IT TO CODE MYSTICS!), and I somehow missed this game.

I first played it after hearing Phil mention that he constantly gets asked about it by press / fans on Twitter. Grabbed it on 360 BC. After the first hour I thought "what is all the fuss about?". It starts slow and doesn't pick up until you get past Chapter 2 and can build arsenals (decks), which can be a good two hours into the game. Once that happens in campaign, and when you start to play multiplayer, this light goes on and you realize how deep and amazing this game is at its heart. 13 years and there's no perfect deck to the game. Stick skill and deck planning are equally as important. Teamwork is insanely rewarding. There's a skill that does anything you can possibly imagine you could do in arena-based combat.

Consider me converted. I get it now. More people need to grok this game. I'm part of the cult, and that's OK, because it's a great cult to be in.

The game is a re-release of the 2004 game with improvements that were possible to do without having final source code. I get that many just don't care about that point (should you need to?) but it is what it is and it is a huge deal to not have access to source yet try to improve things anyway. Could we have done more if we had working final source code? Yes, without a doubt, but that wasn't the case.

Let me add that Code Mystics (the development team) are absolute ninjas. This was a 2004 4:3 game. They cracked open and rewrote the renderer, fixed the culling (making the screen display 16x9 is only the first part of the issue), added LIVE support, enabled easy balance tuning, got cross-play working, re-enabled hundreds of custom shaders and VFX (DX8 to DX11 is not a fun conversion, I've learned), made UI changes, and got the framerate to a massively stable 30 FPS on any machine / platform, all while not being able to truly modify the game at its core. That is a feat. Likely you have to be in development to appreciate that, but it's not easy work.

Why isn't it 60 FPS?
The entire engine was built around the game running at 30 FPS. Everything in the code and data is either frames @ 30, assumes 30, or hard-coded to expect 30 FPS.

The frame rate averages 30 FPS now on a wide range of systems. The worst dips we've seen are to 26/27 in certain moments. This is massively improved from the original (for those that played it) which would drop into the teens constantly on destruction events.

Here's PC min-specs:
OS: Windows 10 64-bit
Processor: Intel Core2 Duo E6550 @ 2.33GHz | AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5600+
Memory: 1 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650 | AMD Radeon HD 7750
DirectX: Version 11
Network: Broadband Internet connection

It's an XPA title, so cross-play and cross-saves are supported.

Why original assets?
Because we didn't have source is the major reason, and also because for a 2004 game, it holds up well in comparison to other games from that time. That's subjective of course, but we're trying to capture and preserve what PD was, not re-create it. It was funky, certainly, and that's part of its DNA.

Why wasn't a date / price announced?
We're re-releasing PD because we love its unique gameplay and style. Everyone here at MS wants PD to get a chance to be played, so sometimes dates, price, and how to get it broad exposure is debated a lot. Gold? Not? Free? Not? Other programs? It goes back and forth, and many different groups are in that discussion. The short of it is that we want everyone to be able to play PD, so you can expect it'll be priced accordingly.

OMG there's micro-transactions?!
Yes, to accelerate multiplayer deck building. It is completely optional. The campaign gets you a lot of skills and credits to use just by playing through it. You also earn skills and credits just by playing MP as well. PD already has a skill shop, credits, random "junk" packs, rare skills, and everything you'd seen in games today -- and it did all that in 2004.

There's also free skills and a deck case you get to start MP off with, so that if you don't want to play the campaign, you don't have to.

Graphics are dated, meme.jpg, etc.
Yep! It's a game from 2004. We preserved its look, but really you shouldn't be hung up on looks here because this is a player's game, not a looker's game. Design-wise and mechanically, you will not find another game that plays like it, even today (closest in feeling is MOBAs, actually).

Sometimes (well, OK, often) we make games to make money, but this re-release isn't focused on that. It's about recognizing something unique and novel, and allowing more people to discover it. PD's play - especially multiplayer - is completely unique and (IMO) very, very fun. It never got a chance to prove that on its original (limited) release, so now more people get to discover it, which is all we want out of it.

So I'll simply close by saying play first, then judge. Feel free to tweet me your thoughts once it's out (@Ishmae1) and I'll be happy to discuss it with you.

Very cool

 

[paulogy]

As much as I'd love full backward compatibility for all games, I definitely prefer these types of upgrades/remasters that apply a loving attention to detail when bringing these older games up to modern systems.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

I hope they do a lot more of these Xbox Classics and sell them at $10 a pop or something.

 

[Gestault]

I hope they do a lot more of these Xbox Classics and sell them at $10 a pop or something.

Some games (definitely not all) would be worth at least $20, for me.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

Look, I'm bustin balls here...But that was like 2 dudes throwing balls at each other for 19 minutes. At FACE VALUE, you have to agree with me.

 

[De_Legend]

Jesus that looks bad

 

[Space_nut]

Sold I'm getting this

 

[singhr1]

I hope they do a lot more of these Xbox Classics and sell them at $10 a pop or something.

If it wasn't for all the Xbox Live integration, i'd agree.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

So getting a game up and running on two platforms it was never released on while looking better than it did at release and avoiding the issues that normally come with upscaling, all done while having no access to the games source code is just a walk in the park right?

I posted this more as a response to people in here claiming people are dumb because MS has always clearly marketed this as nothing more than a port. Also Polygon is also stupid because they called it "remastered".

From that tweet it seems like MS has called it anything but simply a port.

When they're talking about it's neither new assets nor uprez, and that there's some "wizardry" involved, I think it's perfectly natural for people to expect more.

 

[EmiPrime]

I posted this more as a response to people in here claiming people are dumb because MS has always clearly marketed this as nothing more than a port. Also Polygon is also stupid because they called it "remastered".

From that tweet it seems like MS has called it anything but simply a port.

When they're talking about it's neither new assets nor uprez, and that there's some "wizardry" involved, I think it's perfectly natural for people to expect more.

But it is a (HD/4K) remaster, just like the MGS, DMC, ICO/SOTC, Sly etc collections last gen. We called those HD remasters.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

But it is a (HD/4K) remaster, just like the MGS, DMC, ICO/SOTC, Sly etc collections last gen. We called those HD remasters.

I wouldn't call it "just like". I think you should go and read up on some of the DF analyses on those games you listed.

On the other hand, they've done things here with PD that they didn't do in those HD remasters that you listed, like putting in online and being able to balance on the fly.

In any case, Adam has posted calling it a re-release, so that settles that. My point was that it wasn't "stupid" or "dumb" or "shitposting" if people came in disappointed based on how MS was wording some of their teases. I don't think prior to this thread, you'll be able to find anyone from MS calling it just a "re-release".

 

[blakep267]

I wouldn't call it "just like". I think you should go and read up on some of the DF analyses on those games you listed.

On the other hand, they've done things here with PD that they didn't do in those HD remasters that you listed, like putting in online and being able to balance on the fly.

In any case, Adam has posted calling it a re-release, so that settles that. My point was that it wasn't "stupid" or "dumb" or "shitposting" if people came in disappointed based on how MS was wording some of their teases. I don't think prior to this thread, you'll be able to find anyone from MS calling it just a "re-release".

Im pretty sure neither Phil nor Adam have been calling it a remaster or a remake in the last few months.

Even going back to Shannon loftis at E3 last year
"We're using the original assets from the Phantom Dust that was released by Microsoft Japan in 2003," Loftis said. "We are updating some key parts of it. We are updating it with modern Xbox Live. ..."

I don't think they ever called it a remaster. That was what people just labeled it. They've been calling it updated etc

 

[TheUnsunghero26]

.

Thanks for the info, Adam. Looking forward to checking this out.

 

[Adam_Roman]

I'll wait till 6 months after release when ti comes to Steam.

 

[10k]

Never knew what this was. It caught my interest. Seeing footage of it though... Whew. Maybe a demo could persuade me cause this video makes combat look clunky and boring.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Never knew what this was. It caught my interest. Seeing footage of it though... Whew. Maybe a demo could persuade me cause this video makes combat look clunky and boring."


It's a mix of uninteresting footage and the fact that it's, at its core, a card game. A real-time card game. So you're seeing the equivalent of a beginner playing a Hearthstone mage deck with only the starter cards.

 

[AwakenedCloud]

The original launched at $20. With the amount of effort they seem to be putting into the port, even $10 is pushing it.

 

[10k]

The original launched at $20. With the amount of effort they seem to be putting into the port, even $10 is pushing it.

C'mon now just the fact they were able to get this far without the source code is a miracle. Their putting tons of effort into it.

 

[TheUnsunghero26]

The original launched at $20. With the amount of effort they seem to be putting into the port, even $10 is pushing it.

I feel bad for developers when they have to read posts like this.

 

[Thores]

For a game that was made 15 fucking years ago, this looks GREAT. I'm honestly surprised to see this amount of derision about it. This is a game I've never had the opportunity to play, but I've been aware this whole time of it's really passionate cult following. The fact that I'll finally be able to experience this for myself, even if it ends up being jank, has me really excited.

A "surprise" launch during the E3 conference feels not unlikely at this point.

 

[10k]

"Never knew what this was. It caught my interest. Seeing footage of it though... Whew. Maybe a demo could persuade me cause this video makes combat look clunky and boring."


It's a mix of uninteresting footage and the fact that it's, at its core, a card game. A real-time card game. So you're seeing the equivalent of a beginner playing a Hearthstone mage deck with only the starter cards.

True. My theory is it's likely a game that's fun to play in your hands and get a feel for controls but boring to watch as a spectator. A demo could help solve that issue for some unless it's very cheap.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

They should do a video with 2 Phantom Dust fanatics having a battle and detailing the intricacies of the game.

 

[AwakenedCloud]

I feel bad for developers when they have to read posts like this.

C'mon now just the fact they were able to get this far without the source code is a miracle. Their putting tons of effort into it.

Sorry. It was a heat of the moment post and I did forget about the part where they had to essentially reverse engineer the entire game. Phantom Dust is arguably my favorite title for the original Xbox, and I'm just disheartened that the port doesn't seem to be getting the same treatments that most modern ports of older games.

 

[Arklite]

It's looking clean, nice update with the aspect ratio. Huge shame about how the remake was handled but if this does well enough maybe they could take another look at continuing the franchise.

 

[Djungelfrukt]

Man, people need to relax. This is a port. If you thought it was a remake, now you know it's not. Easy as that.

Super impressed with the technical wizardry, hope this opens up possibilities of more OG Xbox games.