Hahaha i wonder if any of those people saw this thread yet.
This is a multilingual game of course you can't.
Polygon: How Dark Souls II will make life even harder
- Thread starter Orayn
- Start date
Hahaha i wonder if any of those people saw this thread yet.
This is a multilingual game of course you can't.
This changes are really great. I used to play as hollow to avoid invansion. But then later I feel somehow miss many thing from the games. Now I'm ready to face those invader, even if it cost me a lot of souls (just farm souls in offline mode lol).
lol, so right
Pretty much.
And that would be cool and interesting if being human made you vulnerable to invasion, but with hollow invasions there seems to be less of a point. I liked how there was a bit of a give-and-take between deciding to stay hollow or become human, sounds like they're just making it so hollow is bad always.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Anyone not wanting to get invaded, can't you just play offline?
How did you arrive at that conclusion?
People will be able to try this stuff for themselves come October when the beta hits. It's going to be exciting seeing how they change up the gameplay we *think* we're all familiar with.
I like the idea of limiting summon time (as others have said, it discourages ganking and phantoms blasting ahead through an area you haven't explored yet), but I do hope we see something that allows easier co-op with dedicated friends. Even if it's only accessible in NG+ so everyone's encouraged to brave the game "alone" for the first time.
Regardless, I'm sure a lot of thought is going into the new servers and design choices. Let's all just thank the Sun that it's not going to be the "toned-down casual" fest people feared.
Edit:
Don't worry - while messages are still composed from preset texts, there seem to be more options and flexibility this time around.
E.g. you can do "Be wary of [something] ahead. In other words... [something something]"
I was going to bring that up as well. This sounds completely different than GAF just a few months ago.
Complete opposite reaction.
We don't know if the invasion system is dependent on levels still so we'll just have to wait and see and I'm pretty sure they'll put safeguards against cheat engines and such now that they're developing with PC in mind. Of course there'll always be people who crack it but there shouldn't be too many. If you're still worried about hackers play on console
Invasions being allowed in both human and undead states doesn't necessarily mean there's nothing you can do to keep invasions at bay short of playing offline.
Perhaps there will certain items you can use or a covenant like a more impactful and effective version of Way of White, which will possibly make invasions something that happen quite rarely or perhaps never after upgrades. The Way of Blue covenant that summons a helpful Phantom as soon as you are invaded is something I was hoping the game would include. The Way of Blue Phantom may also have some specific buffs or spells in dealing with invaders that we don't know about yet, or maybe they'll be summoned from a higher level pool.
From's main purpose seems to be to remove some of the advantages to being undead - which is more of a state of punishment for dying - and presumably because they didn't consider it ideal that people mostly went around as some ghostly entity or hideous skeleton thing in the first two Souls games.
If they also want to emphasize more of a social covenant style of play this time around, this will be another way to encourage online players to band together and take advantage of the co-op features.
Perhaps there will certain items you can use or a covenant like a more impactful and effective version of Way of White, which will possibly make invasions something that happen quite rarely or perhaps never after upgrades. The Way of Blue covenant that summons a helpful Phantom as soon as you are invaded is something I was hoping the game would include. The Way of Blue Phantom may also have some specific buffs or spells in dealing with invaders that we don't know about yet, or maybe they'll be summoned from a higher level pool.
From's main purpose seems to be to remove some of the advantages to being undead - which is more of a state of punishment for dying - and presumably because they didn't consider it ideal that people mostly went around as some ghostly entity or hideous skeleton thing in the first two Souls games.
If they also want to emphasize more of a social covenant style of play this time around, this will be another way to encourage online players to band together and take advantage of the co-op features.
These games have never accommodated experimentation. They certainly require it sometimes, but they don't care about encouraging it. If you die you'll get your ass sent back to the beginning of the level. This is good if you like thoughtful or careful experimentation, rather than Super Meat Boy or Hotline Miami style experimenting.
I think summoning time limitation add more tension to the game. As the host, you want to beat as soon as possible before your phantoms return back to their world. While as phantom, you want to do so too in order to get your reward (assuming being de-summoned because time expiration don't give you any reward). It is pretty good coop enhancement I think.
Vire
Member
Of course it encouraged experimentation. I beat every boss in the game without using a guide, you think I could do that on my first try with each of them? With the half health bullshit it just adds extra aggravation to those who want to play it the right way. (Without a guide).
I don't really see how this is fun. The rest of the changes sound great though.
I'm guessing an item is required for this one ala Dark Souls' Red Soapstone? Regardless, all additions and changes sound soo goood. The agility stat sounds game changing for pvp.
Well hopefully so but even if that's the case they need to be WAY more on top of cheaters than they have been in the past.
Another thing they said the server-based setup would help with, since everyone who plays online will be sharing their credentials directly with FROM Software instead of the more hands-off approach that comes with P2P. Should make cheat detection and banning much easier.
Yeah it seems like a good change since it also doesn't look like it'll affect co-oping for boss fights. We don't really know what sorts of timers you'll get there but given that the timer apparently speeds up the more the summoned phantom kills things for the player, this shouldn't really affect boss fights (unless the boss has a lot of pets, maybe).
I think they just didn't want your co-op buddy to run through the entire level without you doing much of anything, but you'll probably still be able to get a phantom to nuke a boss for you if you're really stuck.
One of my favorite things to do in the Souls games is help people out, so I like that they seem to be emphasizing that aspect of the game more.
How is banning work in a game like this? I mean, you couldn't banned their respective online service account right?
Rickenslacker
Banned
Most bosses in the games are fairly straight forward that any extra handicap wouldn't exactly necessitate resorting to a guide, more just being on point when engaging them. Demon's would cut your health by half as well when you died in human form, and it would darken the tendency of the section you were in resulting in another difficulty increase; you had options to mitigate them in that game, but it didn't harm the experience.
You experimented because the game is obtuse and experimenting is the best way to discover things. But at what point did the game start giving you free passes to make mistakes without punishment? I'm not saying the game was never about experimentation, just that it was always done with great trepidation.
TheCongressman1
Member
Too late. Hollows can be invaded now, lol... Oh man, I really hope they balance this well.
I like the new hollow system. Going back to a Demon's style half health is interesting, I just hope it isn't a huge ordeal to become human again. Humanities were easy to come by, but ephemeral eyes were a lot more rare. I ended up just staying hollow most of the time in Demon's because of that.
I'm sure MS and Sony give developers who host game servers power to ban player from the whole service if they're caught cheating, or at least to submit a global ban request. Similarly, they could enforce bans on PC through Valve Anti-Cheat if it's a full Steamworks game, or just through whatever account system they use.
If you're someone who's adverse to PVP perhaps you should consider another franchise entirely. The Souls games have always been created with PVP in mind. It has also never marketed itself as casual-friendly or accessible. Either you nut up and accept it for what it is or play a watered-down offline version. The gear complaints are short-sighted as almost all equipment is viable in even endgame if upgraded. I find that these complaints come from people who spend their souls on levelling up without giving a second thought to spending it on their equipment.
If the developers were to change the game around your whims the result would be a game different in design (due to PVP not being a focus anymore). With that being said I'm almost certain there will be ways to avoid player contact without needing to disconnect.
My biggest concern is whether there is any cheat-detection. I seriously doubt this will be the case but if things like health bars during combat are handled server-side then they can cut down on cheaters.
If the developers were to change the game around your whims the result would be a game different in design (due to PVP not being a focus anymore). With that being said I'm almost certain there will be ways to avoid player contact without needing to disconnect.
My biggest concern is whether there is any cheat-detection. I seriously doubt this will be the case but if things like health bars during combat are handled server-side then they can cut down on cheaters.
Vire
Member
Me having to run back to my corpse because I died and I was experimenting on a boss with different strategies = fair punishment.
Having half health because I was experimenting on a boss with different strategies = bullshit.
There's a difference.
Maybe that's what it meant to you, but no I did not play Dark Souls with PVP in mind. Every PVP encounter I had was getting trolled and ganked by some high gear opponent. I didn't consider that fun, I just rolled my eyes and said get it over with.
I don't especially like that change because now I see myself getting ganked and trolled all the time.
TheCongressman1
Member
I think it would be fair to also recover your health if you get back to your bloodstain.
Vire
Member
That's fair, I don't have a problem with that.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
SeventhSon
Member
Except now, invaders are corpse camping your bloodstain.
I don't think Invaders have ever been able to see those blood stains?
So you are suggesting that EVERYONE SHOULD USE A GUIDE, since it is damn difficult to play without facing a troll since level 1. (Both Dark Souls and Demon's Souls suffer from this)
And of course, let's not forget that Souls + Guides = ruined experience.
And this is from someone who spend 500+ Hours on both souls games as a complete PvP addict.
It's not like cursed, since they said 50% max health was the maximum penalty, not a universal thing whenever you were hollow.
Their main motivation was to make human form more desirable, since hollow form had more advantages than drawbacks in Dark Souls.
I think it also have base timer to make sure your phantoms aren't summoned to trap invanding player. I've seen such dickheads a lot (though it satifying to see such dickheads get stabbed in the back by skillful player) and it somehow ruin the nature of the game. Slaying enemies in the host world I think would make that timer ticked off faster.
With their Way of Blue convenant, I really like the direction their taking with this series.
PC clearly need this due to their nature. I just don't like seeing PC user to have lesser experience just because some of them decide to become dickheads and ruined everyone's game.
The hollow form in Dark Souls is horribly designed IMO compared to soul form in Demon's Soul. The downside you can get is that your character look ugly and can't summon phantom to help (and at the same time, can't get invaded as well).
Lol, well there's apparently a very fine line then. Don't really see how it's so different when the half health situation can be remedied by turning human.
If anything, it'll be easier to stop hackers on PC since it's easier to patch the game and there are fewer "black box" services that you have to go through.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
The way Dark Souls is designed makes it relatively easy for an experience played to get any equipment they want at any level they want. Nobody wants to get killed in one hit by some guy who created a build with the sole purpose of killing inexperienced players.
The rest sounds fine.
The rest sounds fine.
GravityMan
Member
Hell yeah. I like the sound of all of those changes. There wasn't a whole lot of incentive to be in human form in Dark Souls 1, and some of the things listed seem to address that. Invaded while hollow should be fine if balancing is done well.
TheCongressman1
Member
If way of the blue covenant works the way it sounds, it should help with that problem.
I *LOVE* the idea of constant fear of invasions (and the possibility of invading anyone, since I constantly play as a Dickwraith) and I love that some people will have this blue covenant, so the game makes it pretty clear we're *not* supposed to be having fair fights/duels (there's probably going to be an arena or something for that purpose) and we have to use every advantage we can get to survive/kill others (like stealth/surprise or using enemies as a darkwraith , to compensate for the constant 2v1s).
But, like you said, I'm really concerned about unavoidable cheaters.
EDIT: Also, I'm glad I was wrong about the game and it's turning out great.
I do too. I am good enough to finish pve but not any good at pvp. Hopefully they give a choice.
Well the downside of being Hollow was always having zero help throughout the game.
I'm more than happy for them taking half your health off you like Demon's Souls did, but adding the tension of invasion to Hollow form as well pushes things past difficulty and into frustration. =/
Vire
Member
It would be interesting if they inverted the way things worked in previous games and had human form decrease your chances of invasion, though it would still be possible in both forms.
criesofthepast
Member
I think I'll skip this one. I'm kind of burnt out on demon/dark souls. These games take a lot of out a person. I thought dark souls was easy and I only died because of developers wanting to punish me by being cheap. Soured my experience a bit.
Time to man-up, my friend. You know what they say about Demon/Dark Souls. Prepare to Die.
Actually, all joking aside, you won't know what it's like until you actually play. I'm sure they are making gameplay tweaks all around that haven't been mentioned that might make this an easier pill to swallow.
And it's funny how people were originally complaining that From Software was 'watering it down,' making it too easy.