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#popMAFIA | So don’t let this be our final song

D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Killing Pop was a really stupid decision. Other than that it went pretty well, although we had lot of confusion in N4 if we should kill Crab, Ty or Splinter.

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure why I wasn't killed earlier - in hindsight I thought I would have been N3's kill. Definitely very surprised you wanted to kill Ty4on N4. He was very well meaning and sparked a lot of activity, but it was fundamentally all in the wrong direction and just gave you guys an awful lot of cover to hide behind. I wouldn't have considered him in that position, I think.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
Killing Pop was a really stupid decision. Other than that it went pretty well, although we had lot of confusion in N4 if we should kill Crab, Ty or Splinter.

Yeeaahh...probably should have gone with Crab that Night.

It worked out in the end but that was a bad pick.

Seconded.

What is the "poison slip"?

I asked Coppa about him saying he didn't feel well and after he didn't want to talk about it I sort of dropped that conversation. When he died I mentioned saying I was worried it was poison, which doesn't make sense since if I was Town and worried about someone being Poisoned I should have continued pestering Coppa instead of letting it drop.


Haly was the life of the party on Night 1. o:
 

acohrs

Member
Honestly, I'm not entirely sure why I wasn't killed earlier - in hindsight I thought I would have been N3's kill. Definitely very surprised you wanted to kill Ty4on N4. He was very well meaning and sparked a lot of activity, but it was fundamentally all in the wrong direction and just gave you guys an awful lot of cover to hide behind. I wouldn't have considered him in that position, I think.

that's what saved him in the end, you were more consistent in wanting to vote for burb and saw
 

Burbeting

Banned
Okay, some bit more coherent commentary:

I didn't have enough time for this game, so I ended up posting quite sloppily D1-D3, which more or less got me lynched in the end. I didn't play as well as I could have, but oh well.

Acohrs and Sawneeks played both well, although that poison slip was pretty bad hit. Acohrs played up our rivalry great.

Town didn't try enough until Ty4on subbed in. We got scared Crab and Ty could figure everything out together after a while, so removing at least one of them was going to be important.

Our PR's got wasted. Tracker died D1, Call-out was Goon'd and only one poison shot got used. Scum can win without PR usage.

There were surprisingly many killing PR in this game.
 

cabot

Member
acohrs did really well for a man with a nonsensical name.

I almost felt bad about flipping a coin regarding modkilling him for trying to turn this into Dog Mafia.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I'm surprised Haly didn't wake up with half the village outside her house.

I was busy whispering sweet nothings in coppa's ear to notice.

I am a dude.
And everybody was like "Why would anyone visit Haly?"

One day I'll learn the answer to this question. I'm completely and utterly unassuming.
 

Ty4on

Member
Anyway, congratulations to scum. They played very well, especially knowing the context behind QB now. More or less all the same kills I'd have picked and in roughly the same order, too. Suffocated town by picking off active players and leaders and leaving town with followers, then dominating the conversation in the closing to pick up said followers. Classic scum play, and well executed.
You got close to scum team near the end. I think town really suffered from never really having a big discussion between townies as to who scum might be. It was dispersed in tiny conversations or with scum and the lynch target always ended up being the path of least resistance.
 

Burbeting

Banned
You got close to scum team near the end. I think town really suffered from never really having a big discussion between townies as to who scum might be. It was dispersed in tiny conversations or with scum and the lynch target always ended up being the path of least resistance.

The Kalor-Corn-Flame lynch chain just felt like town had lot of apathy, with Crab and you being the voice of reason.
 

cabot

Member
haha that's pretty good Cabot

This was more Tim's idea than mine, I can't take full credit.

I'd like to thank L_P for the great fluff, and CzarTim for helping me design the game, my partner in crime.


Thanks for playing, though if I'm in a game with y'all next, I'm whippin' your asses for questions and answers.
 

CzarTim

Member
There were surprisingly many killing PR in this game.

It made it pretty swingy, but keep in mind there were basically 2 ways to stop them with the neutral and jailer, plus 1 poison cure. All of the extra kills would have been stopped had Ty not missed the poison claim (understandable given him replacing). Had that happened town would have had another day.
 
congrats players and GMs for completing Pop Mafia :>

gg scummies <3

DOPPEL U R SO JOANJETT <333333

town mvp for me is crabbypants

scum mvp is sawneeks <3
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
that's what saved him in the end, you were more consistent in wanting to vote for burb and saw

Yeah. I must say, as an observer it was difficult not to be frustrated by the absence of kill analysis. The most significant piece of information you get from mafia is their definite revealed choices - their kills. I don't know why kyptikjoker was lynched. Genuinely no idea. The best I can try and understand is a) they were low activity, b) burbeting looked like he was keeping mock distance maybe, and c) sawneeks pushed it and most of town followed because town at that point were really struggling to generate their own initiative. Like, the case was absolutely paper thin and watching town go along with it meekly was dispiriting. If you looked at the night kills, the conclusion you get drawn to is that scum are very experienced - with respect to kryptikjoker, it just probably wasn't someone that new. If you get to that kind of point in late-game, and notice that there is a very experienced town player still left in late game, the alarm bells should have been ringing all over the place.

I don't know if there was enough information left to get you, because your trail was much quieter, but I think it could have at least gone to a threeway LYLO with just a little thought - I don't think sawneeks was hiding herself particularly well at the very end in the hope she could at least protect you (which is fair - she contributed a lot of material very consistently and even very good scum, which she undoubtedly is, can't keep that up forever), but it turns out that wasn't even necessary.
 

acohrs

Member
Think if ty4on was in the game earlier, they would have noticed the poisoning and saved coppa and that would have made it much harder.
 

cabot

Member
It made it pretty swingy, but keep in mind there were basically 2 ways to stop them with the neutral and jailer, plus 1 poison cure. All of the extra kills would have been stopped had Ty missed the poison claim (understandable given him replacing). Had that happened town would have had another day.

I'll elaborate further as well, I never intended for this to be a main season game, the original plan was two main games with a decent replacement list.

I made this initially with a 'game for replacements in waiting' in mind, so I wanted to be a little more extreme with it considering Bar was fairly mundane.


I still think it was mostly fine, it could've went crazy but that was one avenue, it went almost completely mundanely.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
Thank you to Cabot and the Mods for running the game! It certainly was an...interesting time. It had its' ups and downs but it was fun.

Acohrs for Scum MVP. Ty for Town MVP. c:

This was more Tim's idea than mine, I can't take full credit.

I'd like to thank L_P for the great fluff, and CzarTim for helping me design the game, my partner in crime.


Thanks for playing, though if I'm in a game with y'all next, I'm whippin' your asses for questions and answers.

Deal. :p
 

acohrs

Member
Yeah. I must say, as an observer it was difficult not to be frustrated by the absence of kill analysis. The most significant piece of information you get from mafia is their definite revealed choices - their kills. I don't know why kyptikjoker was lynched. Genuinely no idea. The best I can try and understand is a) they were low activity, b) burbeting looked like he was keeping mock distance maybe, and c) sawneeks pushed it and most of town followed because town at that point were really struggling to generate their own initiative. If you looked at the night kills, the conclusion you get drawn to is that scum are very experienced. If you get to that point, and notice that there is a very experienced town player still left in late game, the alarm bells should have been ringing all over the place.

I don't know if there was enough information left to get you, because your trail was much quieter, but I think it could have at least gone to a threeway LYLO with just a little thought - I don't think sawneeks was hiding herself particularly well at the very end in the hope she could at least protect you (which is fair - she contributed a lot of material very consistently and even very good scum, which she undoubtedly is, can't keep that up forever), but it turns out that wasn't even necessary.

Agree on Kryptik. We thought that we'd have to sacrifice Burb and Saw, but the moment we saw a little momentum on Kryptik, we were delighted. That saved us. Otherwise, we would have probably lost
 

CCS

Banned
Yeah. I must say, as an observer it was difficult not to be frustrated by the absence of kill analysis. The most significant piece of information you get from mafia is their definite revealed choices - their kills. I don't know why kyptikjoker was lynched. Genuinely no idea. The best I can try and understand is a) they were low activity, b) burbeting looked like he was keeping mock distance maybe, and c) sawneeks pushed it and most of town followed because town at that point were really struggling to generate their own initiative. If you looked at the night kills, the conclusion you get drawn to is that scum are very experienced. If you get to that point, and notice that there is a very experienced town player still left in late game, the alarm bells should have been ringing all over the place.

I don't know if there was enough information left to get you, because your trail was much quieter, but I think it could have at least gone to a threeway LYLO with just a little thought - I don't think sawneeks was hiding herself particularly well at the very end in the hope she could at least protect you (which is fair - she contributed a lot of material very consistently and even very good scum, which she undoubtedly is, can't keep that up forever), but it turns out that wasn't even necessary.

I'll be honest, I gave up the night you were lynched. It is better to face death unafraid and with dignity then fighting for hopeless survival :p
 

Burbeting

Banned
I'll be honest, I gave up the night you were lynched. It is better to face death unafraid and with dignity then fighting for hopeless survival :p

Still, claiming that you had secret information for acohrs and sawneeks being town might have been the biggest help we had for last two days.
 

Ty4on

Member
The Kalor-Corn-Flame lynch chain just felt like town had lot of apathy, with Crab and you being the voice of reason.
Right... Exactly

Hides Corn vote and Flame scum team ideas

A light bulb went off to me thinking maybe Flame was a mislynch pushed by scum to get the second poison shot and "guarantee" a victory. I tried not to talk much about the poison for self preservation.
 

cabot

Member
I'll be honest, I gave up the night you were lynched. It is better to face death unafraid and with dignity then fighting for hopeless survival :p

While I still don't understand your gambit, I was impressed how all-in you went as a new player who mostly sat back up until that point.

You get a star.

tumblr_inline_mgjwpoiMVZ1roqm64.jpg
 

Sawneeks

Banned
congrats players and GMs for completing Pop Mafia :>

gg scummies <3

DOPPEL U R SO JOANJETT <333333

town mvp for me is crabbypants

scum mvp is sawneeks <3

thank you ynnny <3

also thank you for updating the vote count every now and again c:

I don't know if there was enough information left to get you, because your trail was much quieter, but I think it could have at least gone to a threeway LYLO with just a little thought - I don't think sawneeks was hiding herself particularly well at the very end in the hope she could at least protect you (which is fair - she contributed a lot of material very consistently and even very good scum, which she undoubtedly is, can't keep that up forever), but it turns out that wasn't even necessary.

Once Ty picked up on my Poison Slip it became a game of Burb and I trying to keep him alive and out of harms way. I was actually surprised I wasn't lynched right after Burb since it seemed like Ty/Splinter/Kryptik were starting to go in that direction, but the general apathy of the game is what helped us there in the end.

That Flame lynch push was super shitty on my part though. I only went for it because I wanted to keep Burb alive for another Day Phase. And it worked, sort of.
 
seriously, crabbypants, join us at discord if you are serious about running a game in Season 8

like, why is our king absent from gondor

like, we are under the tyranny of stewardship of a very dubious denethor of gondor and we await our aragorn to come through the double door looking rugged and handsome and all that

seriously, crabragorn

GONDOR AWAITS YOU
 

CCS

Banned
Still, claiming that you had secret information for acohrs and sawneeks being town might have been the biggest help we had for last two days.

While I still don't understand your gambit, I was impressed how all-in you went as a new player who mostly sat back up until that point.

You get a star.

tumblr_inline_mgjwpoiMVZ1roqm64.jpg

Don't laugh at this, but...

I genuinely thought you were helping me. At first anyway.

Hahahahahaha :p
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Actually, cabot, I thought this was a really well-balanced game. During it, I thought there were perhaps too many killing roles, but knowing the set-up now, I think this was actually an excellent example of how to balance killing roles well. There's a poisoner with a poison curer, which incentivizes scum to preserve poison for when they've got the poisoner, creating a risk/reward system of hoping you kill the poison curer vs. your poisoner getting lynched, and the vigilante was one-shot, which incentivizes town to preserve it until late-game when it is statisically more likely to hit scum, but not so late-game the vigilante is dead. It didn't work out like that, but I think that was because of subpar play - the actual design intent is really good. It had the right number of scum, a well thought out neutral, good flavour, balanced mafia and town roles; I'd say this was one of the best GAFIA setups to date.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Actually, cabot, I thought this was a really well-balanced game. During it, I thought there were perhaps too many killing roles, but knowing the set-up now, I think this was actually an excellent example of how to balance killing roles well. There's a poisoner with a poison curer, which incentivizes scum to preserve poison for when they've got the poisoner, creating a risk/reward system of hoping you kill the poison curer vs. your poisoner getting lynched, and the vigilante was one-shot, which incentivizes town to preserve it until late-game when it is statisically more likely to hit scum, but not so late-game the vigilante is dead. It didn't work out like that, but I think that was because of subpar play - the actual design intent is really good. It had the right number of scum, a well thought out neutral, good flavour, balanced mafia and town roles; I'd say this was one of the best GAFIA setups to date.

Yeah cabot you hear that? You suck!
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
I'll be honest, I gave up the night you were lynched. It is better to face death unafraid and with dignity then fighting for hopeless survival :p

So, I was impressed by your gambit at the end. I think it is fair to say you really struggled for taking initiative throughout most of the game, but that was a clear piece of intent and I think it signals a bright path ahead - this is a learning curve and the stakes were definitely skewed scumwards in terms of experience, sawneeks being the crafty old-timer she is (S2, right?). I mean it was wrong, and I would advise never ever pulling that sort of gambit again ever (if you think someone is town, argue for it, don't hint they're town for mechanical reasons because you might be wrong, but people won't challenge you because they think you have mechanical proof) BUT I like the panache and it shows promise.
 

Ty4on

Member
Yeah. I must say, as an observer it was difficult not to be frustrated by the absence of kill analysis. The most significant piece of information you get from mafia is their definite revealed choices - their kills. I don't know why kyptikjoker was lynched. Genuinely no idea. The best I can try and understand is a) they were low activity, b) burbeting looked like he was keeping mock distance maybe, and c) sawneeks pushed it and most of town followed because town at that point were really struggling to generate their own initiative. Like, the case was absolutely paper thin and watching town go along with it meekly was dispiriting. If you looked at the night kills, the conclusion you get drawn to is that scum are very experienced - with respect to kryptikjoker, it just probably wasn't someone that new. If you get to that kind of point in late-game, and notice that there is a very experienced town player still left in late game, the alarm bells should have been ringing all over the place.

I don't know if there was enough information left to get you, because your trail was much quieter, but I think it could have at least gone to a threeway LYLO with just a little thought - I don't think sawneeks was hiding herself particularly well at the very end in the hope she could at least protect you (which is fair - she contributed a lot of material very consistently and even very good scum, which she undoubtedly is, can't keep that up forever), but it turns out that wasn't even necessary.
PoE

I had "proof" of the townie status of other players.

There were also signs of things going wrong inside the scum team, the Quantum lynch being the main example, which made think it was possible.

Also regarding Sawneeks one needed to crack the CCS claim first. Weird, unclaimable roles have been in other games, Danny Phantom in Danny Phantom as an example couldn't ever tell people who he was. Doubting the validity meant figuring out what it meant. Scum making a gambiting? Town misunderstanding their role?
 

CCS

Banned
So, I was impressed by your gambit at the end. I think it is fair to say you really struggled for taking initiative throughout most of the game, but that was a clear piece of intent and I think it signals a bright path ahead - this is a learning curve and the stakes were definitely skewed scumwards in terms of experience, sawneeks being the crafty old-timer she is (S2, right?). I mean it was wrong, and I would advise never ever pulling that sort of gambit again ever (if you think someone is town, argue for it, don't hint they're town for mechanical reasons because you might be wrong, but people won't challenge you because they think you have mechanical proof) BUT I like the panache and it shows promise.

Hahaha thank you :p

Looking back at my original post where I claimed knowledge, I'm pretty sure I was drunk at the time. There's a lesson here somewhere...
 

Ty4on

Member
Ty, how did you not get this?

I thought it was an amazing reference.


It was alphabetical yo.
My standard procedure is to ask the game runner 20 times how a mechanic functions. I'm not one to pick out subtleties :p

I thought it meant ordered like it was written. 123 ABC are both in order.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
So, I was impressed by your gambit at the end. I think it is fair to say you really struggled for taking initiative throughout most of the game, but that was a clear piece of intent and I think it signals a bright path ahead - this is a learning curve and the stakes were definitely skewed scumwards in terms of experience, sawneeks being the crafty old-timer she is (S2, right?). I mean it was wrong, and I would advise never ever pulling that sort of gambit again ever (if you think someone is town, argue for it, don't hint they're town for mechanical reasons because you might be wrong, but people won't challenge you because they think you have mechanical proof) BUT I like the panache and it shows promise.

Season 2 Danganronpa was my first game. Never forget False Hope Leader Crab. <3

Town, please

giphy.gif

The fact that nobody picked up on this sums up this game pretty well.
 

cabot

Member
Actually, cabot, I thought this was a really well-balanced game. During it, I thought there were perhaps too many killing roles, but knowing the set-up now, I think this was actually an excellent example of how to balance killing roles well. There's a poisoner with a poison curer, which incentivizes scum to preserve poison for when they've got the poisoner, creating a risk/reward system of hoping you kill the poison curer vs. your poisoner getting lynched, and the vigilante was one-shot, which incentivizes town to preserve it until late-game when it is statisically more likely to hit scum, but not so late-game the vigilante is dead. It didn't work out like that, but I think that was because of subpar play - the actual design intent is really good. It had the right number of scum, a well thought out neutral, good flavour, balanced mafia and town roles; I'd say this was one of the best GAFIA setups to date.

Yeah cabot you hear that? You suck!

You're both right, I'm the greatest.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
PoE

I had "proof" of the townie status of other players.

There were also signs of things going wrong inside the scum team, the Quantum lynch being the main example, which made think it was possible.

Also regarding Sawneeks one needed to crack the CCS claim first. Weird, unclaimable roles have been in other games, Danny Phantom in Danny Phantom as an example couldn't ever tell people who he was. Doubting the validity meant figuring out what it meant. Scum making a gambiting? Town misunderstanding their role?

Yeah, honestly, I think your broad style of play was good. Your reads were badly wrong, but everyone will get wrong reads. Like, I knew there was scum in Kalor/CB/Sawneeks, but I didn't realize it was Sawneeks until way too late, when looking back I think there were enough clues to get that earlier. That happens, and next time I'll try and do better. But one of the things that helps you do better is having other town people to bounce your thoughts off and check they're right. You didn't really have anyone to bounce thoughts with and so even though you had absolutely the right pattern of thought, it started with the wrong assumptions and went wrong. A more active town and I think you'd have cottoned on to at least sawneeks, but it is always much harder when you're on your own, as you functionally were. So I think you would be my town MVP, in the end.
 
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