Etrian Oddity
Member
If anything, the Spanish/Romance "r" is closer to it because of how they both involve the tongue flex. Now that I think of it, it's basically a marriage of English "L" and Spanish "R."
Popular New York sushi chef entertains customers with fake Japanese accent
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dragonbane
Member
Reminds me of Indigo Prophecy where that one bookstore owner fakes a Japanese accent because his customers enjoy the "wise Japanese master stuff". It was also set in New York lol
Zoe
Member
I'm not going to ask a Japanese person what something sounds like to an American ear. No matter how many videos he posts, I'm still hearing an R.
Sunster
Member
everyone wants to be the one dropping knowledge. you should see all the plane experts come out in a plane crash thread.
Frozenprince
Banned
What if the delivery guy does a racist accent Stump? What then? I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO.
Maintenance
Member
Fucking please, get outta here with that bullshit. Say that about other minority and I doubt you would last to the end of the day.
stump sock
Member
Japansplaining.
Eh. I think it's fine for people to discuss what the Japanese R sound sounds like to them, even if they aren't native speakers, because it doesn't directly line up with any English sounds. I wouldn't pretend to know the language better than a native speaker, but I think people saying "it sounds more like an 'r' to me" is perfectly valid.
If I've learned one thing from learning the language and discussing things with Japanese people, it's that you can ask 5 Japanese people the same question about the language and get 5 different answers. There are accents, dialects and just different usage preferences like any other language.
Privilege. Not just racial, but privilege. If it gets ingrained enough, makes you think you can away with all sorts of shit and just laugh it off as a "joke" when someone calls you on it.
Is that...unheard of? Almost every hibachi show I've been to at Japanese steakhouses the chef, regardless of race, is doing the same thing. Is it right? Eh, okay maybe not...but as far as I can tell it's a part of the job (I know, I know - dude in OP is a sushi chef not a hibachi chef but...still the same underlying problem).
sir_kevith
Member
Seems normal to me
If I lived in Shenmue world
UnemployedVillain
Member
I was arguing what it sounds like to me and other native English speakers. It's not like the sound is 1:1 with the English "l" anyway.
And this is coming from someone who has stayed in Tokyo a number of times at a place called the "Royal Park Hotel" and have heard the name by hotel staff and random people when asking for directions back to it
teruterubozu
Member
You just said something.
cromofo
Member
Re-read the second sentence again, you might get it.
I've only been to a hibachi place twice. And I've never heard anyone try to speak to me in a fake Asian/Japanese accent. I'm surprised that this is a normal thing, because, I don't feel that this is normal or ok.
Porcile
Member
Except for some reason, when it comes to discussing Japanese and Japan, people, especially in Internet forums like this one, are generally are really forceful about their convictions and beliefs. Almost, like they're experts or something.
Everybody wants to be an expert.
If they say it's just their opinion though, I think it's fine. At the same time, I don't fault anyone for finding it annoying either.
There'd probably be more outrage if some white dude had a boutique fried chicken shop and he tried to imitate a southern African American accent.
Difference is probably more noticeable if you're bilingual and can catch the difference easier. This is no different than trying to get a native english speaker to pronounce "ry" "tsu"
Difference is probably more noticeable if you're bilingual and can catch the difference easier. This is no different than trying to get a native english speaker to pronounce "ry" "tsu"
Tbh I'm French and bad French accent imitations legit piss me off, even if there's not any racism involved. When it comes to Asian accents it's even worse because of the racist undertones.
But yeah, unless you can imitate an accent perfectly and you're talking to a good friend, don't even try it in front of someone from that country. It's offensive and obnoxious.
Be a good person, don't do it.
Ha, and most of all, never imitate a generic "European", "African", or "Asian" accent. Those accents don't exist - we're talking about entire continents - and are 100% offensive.
Yeah im an native English speaker too. It's always sounded closer to a L than a R to me. But it might be becuase I've always learned Japanese from people who had a Kansai dialect instead of standard Japanese. (even though they're supposed to teach standard Tokyo dialect). Idk
Septimus Prime
Member
So, here's the key: why are these accents inherently funny to you?
l2ounD
Member
sasimirobot
Junior Member
Does he do this while breaking his own chairs? that would be some meta shit.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I think there is a confusion here. I'm not disagreeing with the R becoming an L. The Ramune example is one you presented that is true.
I am bringing up the L becoming an R. Did you grow up with both languages because I don't know if this is causing the confusion? To most American's when a Japanese person with English as a second language pronounces something with a L, it will generally sound like an R. It is because of the different way we learned to use our mouths and tongue when speaking. Second language problems like this are a global phenomena. I would probably sound silly to native Spanish people for not pronouncing things right. Japanese tv has foreigners that mispronounce things.
There is a reason why the romaji of a series like Final Fantasy (ファイナルファンタジ is Fainaru Fantajī
that "ru" does not sound like a "L" to most native English speakers. It sounds exactly as written, like a "ru" when pronounced from a Japanese tongue.
Minfillia is a name for a character in Final Fantasy XIV. ミンフィリア・ウォード Minfiria Wōdo Minfilia Warde
Ancient Gray
Member
finowns
Member
Same reason an English person speaking Japanese sounds funny to a Japanese person.
finowns
Member
You got all that from accents are funny.. jesus.
finowns
Member
You won. You brought up the oppression of minorities-- accents aren't funny now.
Maybe you should read through the thread to find the Asians who are not ok with this. Or maybe read the article to find out that the author is Asian.
I wonder how many are Japanese?
Regardless, this is one of those things I have to witness before I'm offended.
TickleMeElbow
Member
Yeah I grew up speaking both.
I think where I disagree is that in Final Fantasy for example, I clearly hear it as "fainaLU fantashii" when spoken in Japanese. Even when I pronounce it out loud, the tip of my tongue touches the roof of my mouth at the "ル", similar to the L in "lewd".
With the English pronunciation of "ru" or "ri" with an R, this (the tip of tongue thing) doesn't happen. It's hard for Japanese speakers to even make that sound, because I don't think it even exists in Japanese.
This is why it confuses me when people say Japanese can't pronounce Ls and substitute it with Rs, because there isn't a single word I say in Japanese that uses that R sound. It's all closer to an L when spoken, because the tongue touches the roof of the mouth. Try saying "ruse" out loud, then try saying it by touching the tip of your tongue to the top of your mouth at the R, and it will sound more like a weird "lose". That's where I'm coming from, because Japanese speakers will pronounce it closer to "lose" than "ruse".
Maintenance
Member
Keep moving the goalposts, maybe one time you'll get it right.
Yes, how odd of me to make it about Japanese people...right.
Its not like this is a guy doing an accent he learned by studying in Japan and copying the people.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
Fucking hell so it's fine to mock Japanese people if you "study" them in Japan? What do you have to "learn" about this accent that requires such intensive study even though every single person here knows what a stereotypical Japanese accent is?
Maintenance
Member
Excuse me while I study African American history so I can blackface.
Because to me that's what you're saying.
Randy Monk
Member
Good to know you speak for all Japanese people.
I know a few Japanese and they admire the courage it takes for a westerner to try to speak Japanese. The only times when it's funny is when you mix words or sounds and get a totally different meaning from your original intention.
Do you know how hurtful it is when someone is trying to learn and speak another language and they get laughed at because their their accent sounds "funny". The double whammy is that western society also deems it OK to mock them for their accent in films and television.
Im wondering, as a Japanese person, if people would see it as mocking. Is he just saying a few words and phrases here and there with an accent? Like, is it an authentic accent where he is appealing to the fact he can speak Japanese, or is he just doing mispronunciation stereotypes.　If dericiois or dericiosu is the worst of it than...thats whats its pronounced in Japan.
Really, riled people up I see. Apparently its equal to blackface now.
TickleMeElbow
Member
Dude I think he's just trying to be cute, but comes across as a dumbass. He's not even saying Japanese words apparently. He's saying English words that he's fully capable of pronouncing correctly, and doing it in a Japanese accent for whatever reason.
Like if you walked into a Curry place and some Michael Cera looking motherfucker was randomly going Apu on your ass, you wouldn't think he was full of shit lol?
finowns
Member
Jesus Christ. Obviously context matters does that need to be said?
TheBryanJZX90
Member
Why are you trying to invent some hypothetical situation where some Japanese person isn't offended, when the author of the article provides context for why specifically it was offensive to them?
And I mean I'm sure you can find some Japanese person who doesn't care. So? I also know at least one Japanese person who would be devastated if she thought someone was mocking her accented English and would probably refuse to speak it for a week...
matt360
Member
Maybe I missed it in the article, but who is he addressing when he talks like that? For example, a native English speaker using katakana English to a native Japanese speaker in order to be better understand is perfectly fine in my opinion. It makes you sound like an asshole, but it works. I think that's what the poster on the first page was talking about with her sister in Thailand. But perhaps that's not what's going on with this chef.