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Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (NA) |OT| A puzzling delay

E

explodet

Member
Been sick with a cold for the past few days, so I had plenty of time to play this while recovering. Just finished the game, pretty happy with it.

I knew I was playing a Layton game because there's always one puzzle that I find to be absolute bullcrap and makes me want to throw the handheld out the window. (I'm looking in your direction, Chocolate Code from Curious Village) Fortunately that was premature as I was able to figure it out. Funnily enough, I had yet another moment like this during a trial segment. When I came to the
Vigilante
cross-examination I swore at my 3DS out loud.

And I got total mood whiplash from the end of Chapter 4, going from THAT to "let's solve puzzles!" Hilarity.
 
S

SodiumEyes

Neo Member
I finished the game last night. I was really, really enjoying the game until the final few hours. The Layton sections really benefited from Ace Attorney-quality animations and dialog, and all the changes to the court sections for the medieval setting were brilliant. But the twist the story takes at the end is just mind-bogglingly awful, even by Layton standards. I was so disappointed that I wrote up a blog about why I think it's such a terrible ending:
The Problem with Layton’s Twist Ending (Spoilers)

It's a real shame, because if it had ended well this game would probably in my top 10 of all time.
 
S

SecretDan

A mudslide of fun!
So I love the Professor Layton and Ace Attorney games but I haven't played Miracle Mask/Azran Legay or Apollo Jusice/Dual Destinies yet. Do you all recommend playing those then PL vs AA or vice versa? I only ask because I heard that this possibly would take place after Unwound Future and Trials and Tribulations (although I am sure it is really meant to be stand alone)
 
W

WhereAreMahDragonz

Banned
SecretDan said:
So I love the Professor Layton and Ace Attorney games but I haven't played Miracle Mask/Azran Legay or Apollo Jusice/Dual Destinies yet. Do you all recommend playing those then PL vs AA or vice versa? I only ask because I heard that this possibly would take place after Unwound Future and Trials and Tribulations (although I am sure it is really meant to be stand alone)
Click to expand...

As far as I know it's stand alone. I haven't played any Professor Layton titles, but I'm a huge fan of Ace Attorney and have finished them all. I'm probably halfway through this one, and all it does is reference the series in broad strokes.

So to answer your question, no, you don't have to play Dual Destinies or Apollo Justice first. Or any of the Laytons, for that matter.
 
C

cooljeanius

Member
Got this yesterday, just started Chapter 5 before stopping... The main thing that's bugging me is the inconsistency in which lines get voice acting versus which ones don't... I mean, generally the lines with voice acting are more important than the ones without, but every now and then the game just randomly switches stuff up on you... but other than that I've been enjoying the craziness so far.
I'm assuming that the character that appears to have just been killed off wasn't actually? Can't believe they'd just let that character go so easily in a spinoff game like this...

Edit:
phew, my previous assumption turned out to be correct
 
D

Dominator

Member
SecretDan said:
So I love the Professor Layton and Ace Attorney games but I haven't played Miracle Mask/Azran Legay or Apollo Jusice/Dual Destinies yet. Do you all recommend playing those then PL vs AA or vice versa? I only ask because I heard that this possibly would take place after Unwound Future and Trials and Tribulations (although I am sure it is really meant to be stand alone)
Click to expand...
Doesn't really matter how you go about it. You can play this before playing any game in either series and not be lost, but the charm wouldn't be there. You're safe playing it now and then playing the others after. Its really up to you though.

Anyway, I just beat it. What a wonderful game, and I'm glad it made its way over here.
 
F

FiddyShadeJ

Banned
SodiumEyes said:
I finished the game last night. I was really, really enjoying the game until the final few hours. The Layton sections really benefited from Ace Attorney-quality animations and dialog, and all the changes to the court sections for the medieval setting were brilliant. But the twist the story takes at the end is just mind-bogglingly awful, even by Layton standards. I was so disappointed that I wrote up a blog about why I think it's such a terrible ending:
The Problem with Layton’s Twist Ending (Spoilers)

It's a real shame, because if it had ended well this game would probably in my top 10 of all time.
Click to expand...

Oh God, tell me about it. It was a real momentum killer for me.
When the Storyteller took the stand
and that godlike music played I was so hyped... Then suddenly
research facility
.... Mind you I still love the game but when that twist happened I had to take an angry nap. I felt better about it the next day and I liked the reasoning behind it but still
the fact that the actual explanation is more contrived than the existence of magic... I love Shu Takumi, he writes great characters and twists, so I think this was more the Layton guy's doing than his but who knows?
 
T

Totakeke

Member
Just finished the game, and this is the AA game I always wanted after AA3. The story doesn't really matter as much as the characters and the balanced sense of progression into a deeper mystery, and that what makes an AA game for me. The games after AA3 just hadn't really hit that mark that of feeling that you've finished an amazing journey. Ghost Trick was another game that managed to achieve that and we all know what they had in common.

Yes the story is stupid in a Layton-esque way, but it's still better than other Layton endings because it resolved characters' arc nicely instead making most things that happened irrelevant.

I haven't really read much impressions until now, so I'll guess go check out what people disliked about the game. But I'm definitely super psyched about the next AA game. Loved the music in this game as well.

Edit: Just gotta post this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPgXjUhyRm8
 
K

kurahador

Member
Finally finished the game...ummm...wow, that was pretty ridiculously stupid.
I knew something like that was expected if you played any of Layton games, but...gah, my head hurts.

Also played the first DLC episode, love it!
Pure fan service right there.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
duckroll said:
The ending is very typical Layton. Yes, it drags on forever, and the last 2-3 hours of the game felt like it was "ending" at any moment, but just kept going and going with more and more "reveals" and "twists". That's just how Layton games are, for better or for worse. The narrative format of the game follows Layton scenario design to a tee - it starts with showing the player a totally implausible series of events, and then it drops hints throughout the entire game that things are "more than what they seem", so you expect some sort of logical explanation, but at the very end the actual explanation is usually even more ridiculous than the actual implausible events to begin with. It's just super over the top young adult scifi stuff. Lol.
Click to expand...

I haven't actually gotten around to playing a Layton game since 3, do they ever get more implausible than
there's a giant cave under London in which someone built a copy of London?
 
D

duckroll

Member
The Technomancer said:
I haven't actually gotten around to playing a Layton game since 3, do they ever get more implausible than
there's a giant cave under London in which someone built a copy of London?
Click to expand...

Layton 3 remains one of the most hilariously over the top conclusions, but Layton 6 gives it a run for its money in a very different way.
 
L

Lord Azrael

Member
The Technomancer said:
I haven't actually gotten around to playing a Layton game since 3, do they ever get more implausible than
there's a giant cave under London in which someone built a copy of London?
Click to expand...

Fortunately no. Some of the twists in the later games are still really stupid though.

EDIT: But yeah, Layton 6 has a few cringeworthy ones...
 
P

Peff

Member
On the other hand, I wonder if someone somewhere didn't see the "twist" in Layton 5 coming with how hilariously pedestrian it is.
Oh hey a mysteryous masked man also here's a bunch of totally unrelated flashbacks about a childhood friend who is thought to be dead.
. At least they don't have the godawful dialogue Inazume Eleven does, lol.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Lord Azrael said:
Fourth one sucks, fifth one is my favorite in the series and sixth one is decent. Take that as you will.
Click to expand...

Why does it suck? Just curious

Anyway, even though everyone says Case 2 of Dual Destinies is the worst and it gets better, I'm still burnt out enough that I'm going to dive into this game for a while.
 
P

Peff

Member
Sixth one has some GORGEOUS backgrounds, though, it looks fantastic. While it does have the usual onslaught of nonsense towards the end most of the game is smaller vignettes in completely different locations around the planet, so I wouldn't hesitate when it comes to placing it high on a ranking.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Peff said:
Sixth one has some GORGEOUS backgrounds, though, it looks fantastic. While it does have the usual onslaught of nonsense towards the end most of the game is smaller vignettes in completely different locations around the planet, so I wouldn't hesitate when it comes to placing it high on a ranking.
Click to expand...

Yeah I loved everything about the 6th game up until the very end. Then it was like "oh okay whatever." Lol. Great backgrounds, really nice variety in the settings, fun adventure, then nonsense finale.
 
M

massoluk

Banned
I think I'm halfway through. So far, they really need to implement the Court Room systems in this game into the future Ace Attorney game. All of them are more fantastic and more detective-like than the stupid guessing game of psyche-locks, the Find Waldo Perceive System, and the tedious Mood Matrix system.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
massoluk said:
They really need to implement the Court Room systems in this game into the future Ace Attorney game. All of them are more fantastic and more detective-like than the stupid guessing game of psyche-locks, the Find Waldo Perceive System, and the bland Mood Matrix system.
Click to expand...

I've never understood why they felt the need to inject all of those "mechanisms" for interrogation into the AA games. Like, you couldn't just have something similar from a gameplay standpoint that didn't involve psychics, some computer projection or Apollo's magic armband?
 
N

nckillthegrimace

Member
massoluk said:
I think I'm halfway through. So far, they really need to implement the Court Room systems in this game into the future Ace Attorney game. All of them are more fantastic and more detective-like than the stupid guessing game of psyche-locks, the Find Waldo Perceive System, and the tedious Mood Matrix system.
Click to expand...

Oh, don't worry, the multiple witness system falls apart, too.

The Technomancer said:
I've never understood why they felt the need to inject all of those "mechanisms" for interrogation into the AA games. Like, you couldn't just have something similar from a gameplay standpoint that didn't involve psychics, some computer projection or Apollo's magic armband?
Click to expand...

It's because Shu Takumi is crap at maintaining gameplay ideas through multiple games. It's like he has no confidence in his original vision. I posted this earlier:

Me said:
People just can't handle the fact that Shu Takumi is great at coming up with game concepts but horrible at maintaining them across multiple games. That's why AA1 and Ghost Trick are so amazing; he's a creative guy with a real talent for marrying mechanics to story. Things go wrong, however, when he tries to bolt extra stuff onto his initial concepts. AA2 and 4 are mostly dull, and the third game is just completely up its own ass with the spirit medium shit. AA5 is great because it streamlines AA back such that it emphasizes the best part of these games: the courtroom drama.

Further, I just can't see Layton puzzles being anything but annoying filler when added to this formula.
Click to expand...

And that last part turned out to be accurate. The Layton crap made the game even worse. If you're worried about burning out on Dual Destinies, then do I have some bad new for you re: this game.
 
L

Lusankya

Member
massoluk said:
I think I'm halfway through. So far, they really need to implement the Court Room systems in this game into the future Ace Attorney game. All of them are more fantastic and more detective-like than the stupid guessing game of psyche-locks, the Find Waldo Perceive System, and the tedious Mood Matrix system.
Click to expand...

What? The Mood Matrix is awesome. I hope they re-use it for AA6.
 
S

Spieler Eins

Member
The ending is everything I was hoping for. The whole premise of this crossover is so absurd, so it's good to see that they went as over the top and ridiculous as possible, in a good way.

Can't ever be as dumb as AA3 aka
ghost busters
anyway.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Okay, another Layton question: do any of the new three games manage (or even attempt) the IMO quite effective emotional level of the climax of 3? Between
Layton not being able to say goodbye to his love and Luke leaving
I actually thought it was well done
 
W

WhereAreMahDragonz

Banned
massoluk said:
I think I'm halfway through. So far, they really need to implement the Court Room systems in this game into the future Ace Attorney game. All of them are more fantastic and more detective-like than the stupid guessing game of psyche-locks, the Find Waldo Perceive System, and the tedious Mood Matrix system.
Click to expand...

I agree. But I think the psych-locks are cool. Perceive and the mood matrix are just extra gimmicks that should have been scrapped from the get go.

But I really like this testimony system. I don't really see how it could be implemented in future AA games, though, unless they follow this multiple witness style. Which would be weird in the context of the universe.

Side note, but I really like these voice overs during court. They really bring these characters and scenarios to life and I hope they use them for AA6.
 
G

GSR

Member
The Technomancer said:
Okay, another Layton question: do any of the new three games manage (or even attempt) the IMO quite effective emotional level of the climax of 3? Between
Layton not being able to say goodbye to his love and Luke leaving
I actually thought it was well done
Click to expand...

I'd say the finale of 6 (and to a lesser extent 5) tries it, but they don't reach 3's heights in my opinion.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
Lord Azrael said:
Fourth one sucks, fifth one is my favorite in the series and sixth one is decent. Take that as you will.
Click to expand...
This is pretty close to how I'd lay them out.
Fourth feels like the most by the numbers entry, it's not bad but it doesn't really stand out, killer main theme though.
Five is pretty good, the shift to 3DS gives it a slightly fresher coat of paint, the story works quite well as a more self contained outing and in a way it's probably the most grounded entry within the series.
Six has a way to mix up the standard game progression leading to a few separate short stories which is a nice change though the quality of these vary, when it goes in for the big conclusion it kind of fumbles but I still enjoyed it.

The Technomancer said:
Okay, another Layton question: do any of the new three games manage (or even attempt) the IMO quite effective emotional level of the climax of 3? Between
Layton not being able to say goodbye to his love and Luke leaving
I actually thought it was well done
Click to expand...

Layton 3 stands alone for the series here, I think they wanted to recapture that with the sixth entry but instead it all came out as having twists for the sake of twists so really it was more humorous than anything else.
 
D

Duran

Member
Finished the game yesterday.

- Music is fucking great
- Trial parts were awesome

Enjoyed this more than Dual Destinies. Hope they do a second in this crossover.
 
N

NetMapel

Guilty White Male Mods Gave Me This Tag
Playing this game now as a fan of the AA series. My goodness this game is great so far and I like the Layton puzzles. I also love the trial part because it is crazier than ever and multi-witness system is great. I am only starting chapter 4 now but I see a lot of potential with this new trial system. Hopefully it gets expanded on later in this game and/or perhaps in future AA games. Love the music and also the new prosecutor (Inquisitor sounds super cool though. I also like the Defender title). This game is just ace so far!!!
 
K

kurahador

Member
Btw...the scene when Espella and Luke (chapter 4 i think?)
turning Layton gold statue for the pointing pose during court session
had me laughing.
That was random as hell...lol.
 
T

Totakeke

Member
kurahador said:
Btw...the scene when Espella and Luke (chapter 4 i think?)
turning Layton gold statue for the pointing pose during court session
had me laughing.
That was random as hell...lol.
Click to expand...

The game has a lot of amazing random moments like that but that one just takes the cake.
 
D

Dominator

Member
ohlawd said:
yo, it took PAL Land about half a year to get all downloadable content?

what the heck, how about us?
Click to expand...
Is it an episode a week? I would assume no since there are 3 available already so hopefully its quicker. I wish they put them all at once though lol
 
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