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[NoName999]

I knew that ModerateGAF will try to stan for this guy as soon as they got wind of this story.

What if the Nazi had a knife and decided to stab Mr. Huggles? Then what?

Here's an idea: Why don't the people who aren't considered subhuman targets for Nazis actually stand up to Nazis.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Fuck that shit

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

I'm glad that guy had that moment. I have zero interest in attempting to rehabilitate Nazis as part of a larger strategy

It can't work as a larger strategy, but it can work on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Enzom21]

Just an FYI, that dude doesn't post in good faith.

Oh I don’t doubt it. They’re in here telling folks to hug nazi’s

Well. this guy WAS at the recieving end of the hate from white supremacist, and he still decided to stand against violence.

What’s your point? Other than giving people like yourself warm fuzzies, what did this change?
All this really does is give people another tool to try and silence people who have no desire to be kind to nazis.

What if the Nazi had a knife and decided to stab Mr. Huggles? Then what?

That would have been fine because at least he would have died “taking a stand against the violence” and dealing with nazis the “correct” way.

 

[The Technomancer]

It can't work as a larger strategy, but it can work on a case-by-case basis.

Great, I mean that. Work on the Nazis in your life. Let's not treat this story as a "vision of the way forward"

 

[MugiwaraCole]

Great, I mean that. Work on the Nazis in your life. Let's not treat this story as a "vision of the way forward"

The best possible thing I'm doing to a Nazi in my life is ignoring and avoiding them.

It's that or they get these hands. But we have nothing to talk about.

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

Great, I mean that. Work on the Nazis in your life. Let's not treat this story as a "vision of the way forward"

Absolutely. Personally, I have trouble reaching out to the decent people around me, no reason for me to give Nazis that courtesy.

 

[RinsFury]

Good for that guy, but I think the punch is still the more effective treatment.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Yea I mean good for him for trying. My thing is when people try to use this as an example of how black people should respond to racist, bigots, Nazis, and kkk that want them exterminated.

The message almost comes across "Oh it's so wonderful we can have someone not respond with hate" which makes perfect sense in a vacuum. But in this situation it irks me cause once again the onus is on black people to be ever-forgiving, ever-loving people. Towards someone that is advocating the extermination of everyone that looks like us. And it goes out of its way to ignore whay these people actively advocate and desire: The murder of every non-white person in the US.

I reject that.

 

[theignoramus]

It's kind of pathetic and horribly offensive that you're willing to erase this guy's agency and diminish what he's doing to a "feel good story for moderates".

I mean, maybe it worked for him, but that sort of attitude (he just needs God's love) has gotten many people fucking beaten or killed.
Dont try and police people's reactions to this.

 

[BajiBoxer]

It's a good story, but hopefully one of the people reporting on this will track down the Nazi at a later date and see if anything has actually changed. Otherwise, it's just feel good fantasy.

 

[Bremsstrahlung]

The crowd around them immediately reacted and when Courtney pressed him again, asking “Why do you hate me?” Furniss finally answered, “I don’t know.”

Surely he meant to say "I don't care".

 

[Always-honest]

I'd like to think this helps. .

It does. Being kind to people is devastating for hate, i've noticed.
But it's not enough. White people should condemn every racist movement.
We all should do that. All the time.

 

[theCalamity]

Were the Nazis outnumbered this time? It looks like he was surrounded by a bunch of people. I imagine if it was one black guy surrounded by a bunch of Nazis and he tried to hug them, he'd be lynched.

Well. this guy WAS at the recieving end of the hate from white supremacist, and he still decided to stand against violence.

That's his decision. However, not every one of us is going to do that. Why make ourselves vulnerable like that? Why take that risk?

 

[DonShula]

Don't worry, he got fist hugs too.

The hug was for crimes against humanity.

The fist was for crimes against fashion.

 

[Anung]

I can't believe some of you have found a way to shit on this.

Toxic as all fuck.

Sure it isn't the cure, but let's revel in some small humanitarian victories for a few minutes.

I don't even see a victory here. That guy didn't say "I don't know" highlighting this sweeping revelation of his ignorance. The guy knows why he's a nazi, you don't enter into that ideology blindly, it has baggage and these people aren't operating in a vacuum. The real reason he said he doesn't know is because when confronted with what he hates he was too much of a pussy to own that shit.

I don't know man, saying the targets of this stuff should only bridge the gap with peace and love seems down right disrespectful to me. Dude wants to try change his heart with understanding then cool, if he wants to stomp his Nazi ass? That's cool too.

 

[Buckle]

"god told me i changed a life"

Cut to one week later where the nazi is online using the N word.

God ain't going to stop white supremacy.

 

[The Technomancer]

I don't even see a victory here. That guy didn't say "I don't know" highlighting this sweeping revelation of his ignorance. The guy knows why he's a nazi, you don't enter into that ideology blindly, it has baggage and these people aren't operating in a vacuum. The real reason he said he doesn't know is because when comfronted with what he hates he was too much of a pussy to own that shit.

Yup I think some folks are misreading that "I don't know". You know why you attend a Richard Spencer rally

 

[theignoramus]

It can't work as a larger strategy, but it can work on a case-by-case basis.

Nobody is stopping you from doing you.
If a man hates me, I will not break down in tears and plead with him to accept my humanity. If it's fuck me, then it's fuck him.

 

[zelas]

Yeah this is meaningless to me. That dude isn’t going to stop being a nazi because a person he hates hugged him.

This is nothing more than a feel good story for all of those moderates that keep telling us to meet racists halfway.

This doesn't hurt anything. Why are you reacting like that? You extremists are out of control.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Dylan Roof had a church full of loving black people pray with him. Didn't stop him from gunning them down.

This doesn't hurt anything. Why are you reacting like that? You extremists are out of control.

So now anyone that doesn't tow the line on this fluff piece is an extremist?

Nobody is stopping you from doing you.
If a man hates me, I will not break down in tears and plead with him to accept my humanity. If it's fuck me, then it's fuck him.

This. Fuck them days of pleading with pieces of bigoted shit to recognize my humanity. And shame on moderates for coddling this shit for so long. Pick a god damned side. Either racial hatred and advocating for genocide is wrong or its not. Stop dancing around it.

 

[the_darkness]

I mean, maybe it worked for him, but that sort of attitude (he just needs God's love) has gotten many people fucking beaten or killed.
Dont try and police people's reactions to this.

I'm not policing anything. I'm expressing an opinion. It's what we're all here for.

I said pretty clearly that's not my style and I'm not suggesting you hug a Nazi because I wouldn't.

But I think it's shitty that some people's first reaction to this is to call the guy a chump.

 

[theignoramus]

This doesn't hurt anything. Why are you reacting like that? You extremists are out of control.

I UTTERLY reject your insinuation that refusing to make an emotional appeal to the inner humanity of a Nazi is an "extremist" stance.

 

[Enzom21]

This doesn't hurt anything. Why are you reacting like that? You extremists are out of control.

In a thread about a nazi, I’m the extremist? Some of you are real transparent.
That hug did nothing, that nazi will still hate me and every other black person he sees.

 

[NoName999]

This doesn't hurt anything. Why are you reacting like that? You extremists are out of control.

Nice to know that not wanting anything to do with people wants you eradicated makes you an extremist.

 

[excelsiorlef]

This doesn't hurt anything. Why are you reacting like that? You extremists are out of control.

I'm sorry extremist?

 

[the_darkness]

Ok fuck it, I'm out after that other reply. I don't want what I'm saying conflated or associated with that.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

In a thread about a nazi, I’m the extremist? Some of you are real transparent.
That hug did nothing, that nazi will still hate me and every other black person he sees.

This. I ain't got no more tears to cry nor hugs to give.

It's not my responsibility to love you. That's your parents job. My job is to not advocate for your extermination and to not hate you because of your ethnicity.

 

[T.O.P]

Takes more to do something like this than to throw a random punch, cool guy hope he got the message through to at least this one person

 

[D1renegade]

Now this is cringe worthy

 

[Enzom21]

I'm not policing anything. I'm expressing an opinion. It's what we're all here for.

I said pretty clearly that's not my style and I'm not suggesting you hug a Nazi because I wouldn't.

But I think it's shitty that some people's first reaction to this is to call the guy a chump.

Who called the guy a chump? Some of us just recognize that this really isn't going to change anything and will most likely be used as a cudgel to silence people much like MLK or most recently Daryl Davis.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Ok fuck it, I'm out after that other reply. I don't want what I'm saying conflated or associated with that.

Nah don't go. Own and defend the validity of your position. Unless of course you finally realizing it's not much of a valid position.

Who calls the guy a chump? Some of us just recognize that this really isn’t going to change anything and will most likely be used as a cudgel to silence people much like MLK or most recently Daryl Davis.

 

[Heckler456]

Yup.

Stuff like this always reminds me of that lady probation officer that turned one of her charges from a nazi by basically treating that person like a human being. Or that black musician, I think, that turned like a whole bunch of KKK members by befriending them.

And then I come over here, and I see people claiming that the only way to change people is through violence or treating those people like shit. It's cathartic, I'll grant you that, but I'm personally starting to doubt if that even works at all. When I think about someone trying change my opinion about something, not even remotely as deep-seated as I imagine racism to be, I don't think shouting at me or treating me like shit will ever manage to change my mind.

Maybe it works on a population-scale, with stuff like marches or even riots, to get the conversation kickstarted. In fact, I definitely think it works to get the conversation started. But when that conversation's kickstarted, I think it's far more productive and long-lasting to treat the individual like a person, and try to change their mind through kindness, even if that's really difficult to do. It's definitely not for everyone, so thank god we have people like the one in the OP doing it for us.

 

[Beartruck]

I get the sentiment, but this comes off as naive and corny to me. They are Nazis bruh. You think a black man hugging them will change their minds? If hugs are their opposition you are basically bringing a rubber chicken to the Vietnam War. His actions are really underselling the dangers of Nazis. Also will be used as "black role model for protesting" by conservatives.

There are multiple stories of black men openly befriending members of the KKK and changing their perspective. As weird as it is to say, some people are like this because their social circle is like this and thats all they know. Getting them to question their place in that is important.

 

[SolarPowered]

I can't believe some of you have found a way to shit on this.

Toxic as all fuck.

Sure it isn't the cure, but let's revel in some small humanitarian victories for a few minutes.

Nazis are gonna Nazi no matter what, but it was nice seeing the illusion even if it was just momentary.

 

[Khaz]

Rehabilitation only works on a case by case basis. By insulating the person completely, cutting them from their old influences, and working on them for months, if not years. It's completely impossible to do on a large scale. On a large scale, punching to silence is good enough, it stops them from further spreading the hate to easily influenced people.

 

[Always-honest]

Who calls the guy a chump? Some of us just recognize that this really isn't going to change anything and will most likely be used as a cudgel to silence people much like MLK or most recently Daryl Davis.

You don't know that. We simply can't tell yet. From what i've seen over the years of my life, sometimes it's as easy as that.

It's not the responsibility of the victims though. You don't have to go show a hater like that some love. But some do. And in a lot of cases, it changes a person. Sometimes a little bit. Sometimes a lot.

Nazis are gonna Nazi no matter what, but it was nice seeing the illusion even if it was just momentary.

Well, let's give up then. Us white people don't need to stand up to them nazis either. Since it won't help.

 

[the_darkness]

Nah don't go. Own and defend the validity of your position. Unless of course you finally realizing it's not much of a valid position.

The guy did something that to him was immensely powerful and difficult.

Making fun of him for invoking god and calling him corny and a tool for moderates is a shitty thing to do. That's my position and I'm pretty confident in its validity.

I'm not saying that's the "right" way to protest. I'm not saying he'll change anything. I'm not saying you shouldn't punch Nazis in the face.

I'm just saying this dude deserves a bit of respect.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Yup.

Stuff like this always reminds me of that lady probation officer that turned one of her charges from a nazi by basically treating that person like a human being. Or that black musician, I think, that turned like a whole bunch of KKK members by befriending them.

And then I come over here, and I see people claiming that the only way to change people is through violence or treating those people like shit. It's cathartic, I'll grant you that, but I'm personally starting to doubt if that even works at all. When I think about someone trying change my opinion about something, not even remotely as deep-seated as I imagine racism to be, I don't think shouting at me or treating me like shit will ever manage to change my mind.

Maybe it works on a population-scale, with stuff like marches or even riots, to get the conversation kickstarted. But when that conversation's kickstarted, I think it's far more productive and long-lasting to treat the individual like a person, and try to change their mind through kindness, even if that's really difficult to do. It's definitely not for everyone, so thank god we have people like the one in the OP doing it for us.

I'm not interested in having a conversation with people that wouldn't hesitate to drag my wife and child out of our home and shoot them dead like dogs in the street.

Sorry if that's not productive to you but I reject the bullshit that it's black people's responsibility to love the hate out the bigot while white moderates sit back and wipe tears from their eyes.

 

[Hubbl3]

I'm not interested in having a conversation with people that wouldn't hesitate to drag my wife and child out of our home and shoot them dead like dogs in the street.

Sorry if that's not productive to you but I reject the bullshit that it's black people's responsibility to love the hate out the bigot while white moderates sit back and wipe tears from their eyes.

Agreed.

 

[Heckler456]

Rehabilitation only works on a case by case basis. By insulating the person completely, cutting them from their old influences, and working on them for months, if not years. It's completely impossible to do on a large scale. On a large scale, punching to silence is good enough, it stops them from further spreading the hate to easily influenced people.

I definitely think it works better if you completely isolate that person, but I don't think that's the only factor at play here. Like I said, the people Daryl Davis converted were still active klan members apparently. Just takes the right type of person, I suppose.

I'm not interested in having a conversation with people that wouldn't hesitate to drag my wife and child out of our home and shoot them dead like dogs in the street.

Sorry if that's not productive to you but I reject the bullshit that it's black people's responsibility to love the hate out the bigot while white moderates sit back and wipe tears from their eyes.

It's not your responsibility. It's not any one person's responsibility. Like I said, it's very difficult to do, which is why we're lucky to have these kinds of people.

And frankly, thinking about it, it'd even be dangerous for any random person to "love the hate away". You need to right kind of circumstance. The lady I spoke about had explicit power over that guy. That musician was a christian, so they probably connected over that first. And the person in the OP was probably safe due to the crowd surrounding him. So, with that I mean, I really don't expect you to walk up to these people tomorrow, and engage them in friendly conversation. Or protect your family any way that's necessary if it comes to that, you know.

What I am saying though, that pragmatically speaking, the kindness thing seems to have best success rate. Outside of terminating all these people in whatever way, of course. But we can't do that, so yeah...

 

[Mammoth Jones]

The guy did something that to him was immensely powerful and difficult.

Making fun of him for invoking god and calling him corny is a shitty thing to do. That's my position and I'm pretty confident in its validity.

I'm not making fun of him. I'm saying I reject the argument that we will solve this problem having black people go out and hug bigots. It's a poor position because it puts the responsibility on people of color to confront and love the same people that what to exterminate us.

 

[NoName999]

Yup.

Stuff like this always reminds me of that lady probation officer that turned one of her charges from a nazi by basically treating that person like a human being. Or that black musician, I think, that turned like a whole bunch of KKK members by befriending them.

In both of those stories you mentioned, the racist didn't change. They just think they found one of the "good ones"

 

[Always-honest]

I'm not interested in having a conversation with people that wouldn't hesitate to drag my wife and child out of our home and shoot them dead like dogs in the street.

Sorry if that's not productive to you but I reject the bullshit that it's black people's responsibility to love the hate out the bigot while white moderates sit back and wipe tears from their eyes.

Of course. It's certainly not your task to give people like that a hug.
That doesn't mean that showing people the way to love doesn't help though.
It's up to every person.

Personally, i would probably be more like you in this situation.

 

[Khaz]

There are multiple stories of black men openly befriending members of the KKK and changing their perspective. As weird as it is to say, some people are like this because their social circle is like this and thats all they know. Getting them to question their place in that is important.

No, there is like one story, and Nazis are happily using Daryl Davis to subvert moderate discourse and encourage people not to punch them.

 

[BajiBoxer]

It's kind of pathetic and horribly offensive that you're willing to erase this guy's agency and diminish what he's doing to a "feel good story for moderates".

That's what it is until you actually know his life was changed.

 

[the_darkness]

I'm not making fun of him. I'm saying I reject the argument that we will solve this problem having black people go out and hug bigots. It's a poor position because it puts the responsibility on people of color to confront and love the same people that what to exterminate us.

I'm not making that argument so we can stop talking now.

 

[Veelk]

I feel like people get too obsessed with the idea of changing individual peoples ideology through love instead of violence. Let's say that this person does stop being a Nazi permanently and its happy fun times all around.

So what? There are still hundreds of thousands of Nazis that aren't gonna be turned around because of a hug. Or even if they were, how would you organize that sort of mass change? An army of huggers?

What physical violence does is not stop Nazis from being Nazis, but it stops their self expression. Nazis are cowards at heart and won't push forward in public if they don't think they're protected by higher powers. That's why they've come out during the trump era. Violence is fantastic for that.

I wish Nazism would go away, but rendering it impotent is much more practical and effective. Worry about stopping their actions before you worry about eliminating their beliefs.

Also, there's no reason we can't offer both hugs AND violence.

 

[rjinaz]

Cool story. Maybe he reached the guy. Maybe ten years down the road the hate starts to slip out of some of the hate. Who knows. But, same can be said about a punch too, we've seen these people scurry a way like a scared rat after facing some harsh reality.

Also I don't recommend hugging nazis. They are possibly armed with a knife or worse, and are full of hate. That and you are ruining their reputation, which is especially going to make them angry after the fact.

There are definitely different approaches people can take, they can deal with nazis how they see fit. This guy wants to hug him, another wants to punch him. Both emotions are correct in my mind.

 

[Heckler456]

In both of those stories you mentioned, the racist didn't change. They just think they found one of the "good ones"

Huh? They definitely changed. That probation guy got his tattoos removed. All those people that befriended Daryl Davis renounced the klan. It definitely worked.