I think that's asking a lot, honestly. Few other CE products get the kind of scrutiny game platforms already do get during their design phase leading up to initial launch. We know enough about the design phase to know that its frantic, balls to the wall work leading right up to the very launch itself and the process is highly fluid up until that point. Demanding accurate, concrete answers too far in advance of launch is just looking to set these guys up for a fall. I'm not sure what purpose is served by trying to get these guys to commit to something one way or another until they're ready to commit on their own terms. We're not trying to figure out what the deal is with the missing WMDs here.DenogginizerOS said:
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PS3 spring release was 'attempt to distract from 360'?
- Thread starter Xrenity
- Start date
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Try this one on for size. If I were in Japan, and I heard, "The XBOX 360 was coming in November" on my TV or radio, I would believe that meant Japan. Did MS do this?
I guess it is fair to say that many of the stupid journalists will say the PS3 was delayed til ____ when/if the date of the North American release is announced to extend beyond the Spring.
I guess it is fair to say that many of the stupid journalists will say the PS3 was delayed til ____ when/if the date of the North American release is announced to extend beyond the Spring.
Animal
Banned
This doesnt make any sense. Blue Ray machines should be pretty much everywhere in japan if Sony is launching in spring over there. But that is not the case. Nobody has a bloody Blue Ray player and somehow there are going to be millions of ps3's around the world sold for lets suppose a reasonable 400$US. Who the hell is doing the math at sony? There is something they are hiding. I am strictly speaking in regards of having a widely adopted Blue Ray capable machine all over the world within 1 year. To me that looks impossible from all the information we are given. Sony is either about to take a huge kamikaze style move and blow all there money on getting everyone a ps3 for about 400$US or it's simply not happening.
What are they thinking really?
What are they thinking really?
PhatSaqs said:
PhatSaqs said:
PhatSaqs, I felt you did insinuate Game Sites made assumptions and reported falsely based on Sony's ambiguous "Spring" power point slide, much like the AP did in the artcile Denogginizer posted. If that's not what you meant, maybe choose your words more carefully. You know, so as to avoid any confusion.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
uuuuugh
Sony have talked about a Spring debut FOR JAPAN.
Behind the scenes, it sounds like there was _some_ discussion of a world wide launch, but that would push the launch back futher (unless Sony have magical production factories powered by megapixies that can churn out millions of units between whenever-production-starts and April). I don't think anyone went on record regarding _any_ date for US or Euro.
Most likely, Sony will have a limited release in April in Japan to get a couple of 100k units out and to get the PS3 into peoples minds and to start the buzz in earnest. Again, like MS, the buzz will be generated from the sell out. There'll be a slow release of machines whiles capacity is built up for US launch with JPN machine numbers steadily going up. etc etc...
re: Delay - if Sony don't hit Spring in Japan, i will personally consider it a delay. It not hitting EU/US in Spring isn't a delay because no launch date was ever set!
Sony have talked about a Spring debut FOR JAPAN.
Behind the scenes, it sounds like there was _some_ discussion of a world wide launch, but that would push the launch back futher (unless Sony have magical production factories powered by megapixies that can churn out millions of units between whenever-production-starts and April). I don't think anyone went on record regarding _any_ date for US or Euro.
Most likely, Sony will have a limited release in April in Japan to get a couple of 100k units out and to get the PS3 into peoples minds and to start the buzz in earnest. Again, like MS, the buzz will be generated from the sell out. There'll be a slow release of machines whiles capacity is built up for US launch with JPN machine numbers steadily going up. etc etc...
re: Delay - if Sony don't hit Spring in Japan, i will personally consider it a delay. It not hitting EU/US in Spring isn't a delay because no launch date was ever set!
PhatSaqs said:
Wait, are you suggesting that Sony's silence, which resulted in some dumb people spreading misinformation, is THEIR fault? Seriously, Saqs, this is one really low argument for you today.
Here are the facts:
- Sony said they will launch in 2006 definitely.
- Sony said that they are on target for Spring 2006 (didn't say if that's Japan, US, Europe or worldwide).
- Sony never said they would launch PS3 worldwide at once, or implied.
- Sony said they are still evaluating their options.
- A lot of dumb people interpreted "Spring 2006" to mean "worldwide", when in fact not only doesn't that imply that, but Sony said on several different occassions that they have not determined anything (look carefully here: that's the opposite of silence.)
- If people had read what Sony actually said, there would be no confusion.
- Some people didn't read what Sony actually said, therefore this IS confusion.
So who is at fault? Based on our facts, we can accurately conclude people who did not read are at fault.
Animal
Banned
Yeah ok thats all really nice but there is still the fact that Blu Ray alone wont be cheap enough to purchase for 400$US.
Now imagine a blue ray player that has a Cell processor and an Nvidia top of the line GPU to run it. Now add the fact that there is a mindblowing amount of system software developped to let you use the machine as a computer. That is a PS3 and there is no way they can pull that off and have a reasonable video game console price. As much as I can't wait to blow all my money on a PS3 I can't help but point out these facts.
It doesnt matter where they are lauching because it simply will cost way to much because its way to cutting edge.
Now imagine a blue ray player that has a Cell processor and an Nvidia top of the line GPU to run it. Now add the fact that there is a mindblowing amount of system software developped to let you use the machine as a computer. That is a PS3 and there is no way they can pull that off and have a reasonable video game console price. As much as I can't wait to blow all my money on a PS3 I can't help but point out these facts.
It doesnt matter where they are lauching because it simply will cost way to much because its way to cutting edge.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
true enough, but who says they are rushing to hit April?
if there are a couple of bits of software ready , if the movies are there, and they have a couple of hundred thousand machines ready to go, then they'll go for it
re: sony pricing
The PSP suggests a shift in sony pricing that i tried to explain a while back and was laughed at.
Sonys policy has shifted from having a relatively large launch price, then dropping aggressively to having a more reasonable price at launch but maintaining that price for much longer than usual.
So, as with PSP - rather than launching it at 35,000 yen, softening the loss whilst working on getting the price down, then dropping the price incrementally over the year, you put the machine in at 25,000 yen and keep it at that reasonable cost , take an initially much larger loss AND still work on getting your internal costs down. As your internal costs go down, you start losing less/gaining cash back. At the end of the day, the theory is that you wind up losing the same, but you can pick up more userbase because your not pricing too many people out of the market initially.
At least, that's how i'm seeing it. And that's why the PS3 will be 39980 yen - and it will be that price for a good few years (2-3 years i'd guess). When Kutaragi says it's "expensive" , i think he means in the long run - i think he's warning people that holding off and hoping to pick a machine up for 24,980 yen a year or two down the line isn't going to happen. Given the tech in the box, i don't see why PS3 isn't going to be equally (if not more so) of a hot machine 2,3,4 years down the line.
choplifter
Banned
I don't believe PS3 is QUITE as cutting edge as some people think.
*the Cell Processor was completed in 2004
*the RSX is, as far as we know and according to Nvidia, a specialized G70 GPU, the PC versions of which has been out since summer 2004, and is really not much more than an NV47
*Blu-ray spec was nailed down in 2002 and won't be very expensive for Sony, especially for the minimal amount of Blu-ray components for the PS3 version
(Cell and RSX handle the processing)
*Rambus XDR for PS3 is the minimum XDR spec, Rambus already has XDR2 in the pipeline.
*128-bit bus and GDDR3 memory not state of the art when 256-bit busses have been around in PC cards since 2002, and there is faster GDDR4 memory for PC also.
PS3 at $400 is not mind-bloggling in technology or cost for Sony, IMO
*the Cell Processor was completed in 2004
*the RSX is, as far as we know and according to Nvidia, a specialized G70 GPU, the PC versions of which has been out since summer 2004, and is really not much more than an NV47
*Blu-ray spec was nailed down in 2002 and won't be very expensive for Sony, especially for the minimal amount of Blu-ray components for the PS3 version
(Cell and RSX handle the processing)
*Rambus XDR for PS3 is the minimum XDR spec, Rambus already has XDR2 in the pipeline.
*128-bit bus and GDDR3 memory not state of the art when 256-bit busses have been around in PC cards since 2002, and there is faster GDDR4 memory for PC also.
PS3 at $400 is not mind-bloggling in technology or cost for Sony, IMO
MassiveAttack
Banned
The JP launch will be at the end of March as the PS Festival in February will finally make clear. The NA/EUR launch will closely mimic the PS2 launch if it isn't obvious already.
Source? Simple logic and a well-known software tools provider.
Source? Simple logic and a well-known software tools provider.
thank you.Goreomedy said:
where are you fucking going with this phatsaqs? AFAIK you are trying to say that Sony said Spring 2006 which some news reports interpreted as "USA in Spring 2006" and then accused sony for the news reports saying such. If this is wrong, by all means correct me with what you are actually trying to say. If this is indeed what you are trying to say, I don't see how you can possibly defend news agencies for making up their own specifics and then reporting them as fact and THEN blaming that misinformation on sony. It is the news agenicies' job to report the news ACCURATELY. Not make up the shit they want to sell the stories. If sony didn't give them specifics, too fucking bad. that is Sony's (or anyone's really) perogative. It is not then up to the news agencies to fabricate their own specifics in lieu of anything concrete from Sony.
choplifter - you are absolutely right and that is a fair point. I don't think that makes it any less cutting edge, but yes.. the technology has certainly been around long enough that it can come in reasonably. I am still betting on $399 w/o HDD, $499 w/HDD. Though to not downplay it too much, PC graphics are just STARTING to target a video generation behind in terms of current development. When the PS3 launches it will definitely still seem superior compared to the typical current PC game. It won't be until likely sometime next year when the PC again starts to pull away from consoles in terms of graphic quality, and even then you will need a brand new 2007 game with near top of the line hardware.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
i have this horrible feeling sony will launch on 8th April (4/8/6) which is the day of my wedding...
... at least it'll give me something to do
a) in the morning to calm nerves (go get machine)
b) at night.... what? i should be doing something else? man has to keep himself entertained!
... at least it'll give me something to do
a) in the morning to calm nerves (go get machine)
b) at night.... what? i should be doing something else? man has to keep himself entertained!
lachesis
Member
PS3 spring release was 'attempt to distract from 360'?
My personal take is, yes and no too.
I'm quite sure that they'd wanted to have some hype going on, probably starting around 360's launch as well - but there are a couple of senarios to it.
Case 1. PS3 is seriously not ready to be shown other than it's case design, and everything's falling behind the schedule. They honestly projected Spring launch for their homeland, Japan - and I do think there's still some chance that they might make it - but such lack-of screen shots, or even lack of any new news in this year's CES is making me a bit nervous that Sony's falling behind the schedule, and not ready for PS3 launch just yet - and since they are not saying that PS3 is behind the schedule even in slightest bit - we get this feeling of they've deceived us on actual launch date.
Or Case 2. the whole E3 PS3 schedule is very tactical diversion for X360's early launch and hoping others will "wait" for PS3's immenent launch - which could, really do back-fire if they delay the launch from projected spring launch - but I seriously doubt that - as the company's credibility is on the line, especially when you are talking to some industry related people at a event like E3.
I do think the former is the case right now - and I have to remind myself that there's still some time before April-June. Hope they'd wrap up the stuff and reveal the whole beans soon - as they've missed a good opportunity called CES - but don't they have TGS or they can do their own PS3 launch press event for them to show by themselves.
lachesis
My personal take is, yes and no too.
I'm quite sure that they'd wanted to have some hype going on, probably starting around 360's launch as well - but there are a couple of senarios to it.
Case 1. PS3 is seriously not ready to be shown other than it's case design, and everything's falling behind the schedule. They honestly projected Spring launch for their homeland, Japan - and I do think there's still some chance that they might make it - but such lack-of screen shots, or even lack of any new news in this year's CES is making me a bit nervous that Sony's falling behind the schedule, and not ready for PS3 launch just yet - and since they are not saying that PS3 is behind the schedule even in slightest bit - we get this feeling of they've deceived us on actual launch date.
Or Case 2. the whole E3 PS3 schedule is very tactical diversion for X360's early launch and hoping others will "wait" for PS3's immenent launch - which could, really do back-fire if they delay the launch from projected spring launch - but I seriously doubt that - as the company's credibility is on the line, especially when you are talking to some industry related people at a event like E3.
I do think the former is the case right now - and I have to remind myself that there's still some time before April-June. Hope they'd wrap up the stuff and reveal the whole beans soon - as they've missed a good opportunity called CES - but don't they have TGS or they can do their own PS3 launch press event for them to show by themselves.
lachesis
lachesis said:
Logic Flaw 1: PS3 was never scheduled to have a major presence at CES. The first major PS3 show in 2006 was scheduled for February, and always has been. Therefore, we can assume that unless they miss that or show shit there, they are perfectly on schedule with their public showings.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
back to my own line of thinking here, but - isn't the key to the pricing and maintaining it at this price (oddly enough) Bluray?
Lets not beat around the bush here, Bluray included in PS3 is a big thing. Adoption of bluray is a big thing, so the PS3 is obviously going to be a key factor. similarities to PS2 and DVD have been made, but there is one large difference : DVD was out already when PS2 launched, some people already had the machines to play the media. This time, Bluray is going to be something that people "grow into" _AFTER_ the PS3 comes out.
Now, initially THIS TIME it's going to be true that the players are going to come in at relatively high prices ($1000? $500?) - lets say 2-3 years time the bluray players fall in line with DVD player costs and they are 29980 or so... surely a 39980 PS3 at that time STILL looks like a no brainer as a first BR player AND _shit_ a sony console? It's almost like the PSX theory done correctly!
of course that makes "out of my ass" assumptions about Bluray players, but i don't think it's THAT much of a stretch.
I know this may be a crazy thought, but perhaps Sony wants developers to focus on finishing their titles for March/April launch instead of wasting a month to do a demo. Because from all accounts I've read making playable demos for games at shows like E3 takes time out of development.
It would be great to see the reaction if Kaz walked up to the mic at E3 2006 and said, "$299.", then walked off. I doubt this will happen, but who knows. I could see Sony launching at $299 and keeping this price point well into 2008. They held the PS2 pricepoint at $299 for a couple years. Why not the PS3? Want to take the wind out of the sails of the 360? Launch at 299. It would be game, set, match right there. With Sony onto selling another 100 million plus systems. Getting game revenue and also establishing Blu Ray as the dominant force in movies, gaining movie revenue at the same time.
It would be great to see the reaction if Kaz walked up to the mic at E3 2006 and said, "$299.", then walked off. I doubt this will happen, but who knows. I could see Sony launching at $299 and keeping this price point well into 2008. They held the PS2 pricepoint at $299 for a couple years. Why not the PS3? Want to take the wind out of the sails of the 360? Launch at 299. It would be game, set, match right there. With Sony onto selling another 100 million plus systems. Getting game revenue and also establishing Blu Ray as the dominant force in movies, gaining movie revenue at the same time.
there is more truth to this than you may know. demos are not just a cut and paste out of the game. there definitely is a ton of work into pulling the right parts of the code and the assets into a demo form and packaging it all up nicely. I think there is a very real chance that Sony knows the Playstation name itself is an easy enough marketing tool that demos are not entirely necessary. Get the games done, show the japanese launch titles a month or two before launch, show the american titles a month or two before launch, and let the playstation brand awareness market itself.Mrbob said:
This is one area where Sony easily has MS on the ropes. While I agree that XBox certainly has mindshare, it is a tenuous mindshare at best that hasn't always been prominent.. actually only has been prominent for maybe a year or so. Playstation has 10 FREAKING YEARS of mindshare. For all intents and purposes Playstation IS the modern day Nintendo from the 80's. the way I recall it Nintendo didn't need to do ANY whoring out of demos and whatnot for the respective SNES and N64 launches.. yousaw a little bit here and there but mostly it was the Nintendo name and quality of games that sold the systems.. not years of playable demos and target "renders".
Who knows, Sony may make many of us look like idiots and release summer 2006 in Japan and later in US.. but basing that they are behind in production because we haven't seen final demos running on final hardware is a naive thing.. especially in this day and age of gaming where seemingly every harrdware manufacturer except for MS is holding the cards relatively close to their chest until right before launch.
Since PS2 we have seen 5 system launches occur in Oct/Nov. I would say that is a safe bet.Mooreberg said:
MassiveAttack
Banned
Mooreberg said:
That's what I believe and it's also what Take Two stated in its conference call yesterday.
By the way, if history is any guide, the PS Festival should take place around the middle of February meaning 5-6 weeks from now.
The first playable PS2 units were unveiled on February 18th, 2000 at PS Festival in Makuhari Messe.
MassiveAttack
Banned
Elios83 said:
Nope. The PS2 unveiling started at TGS 1999 and then went like this:
2/18-2/20/2000: PS2 playable at PS Festival
3/4/2000: PS2 on sale in Japan
10/26/2000: NA release
11/24/2000: EUR release
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
SolidSnakex said:
They didn't play it on PS3. They might have played it on Alpha or Beta kits without RSX, or even on the PC, but they certainly did not play it on the PS3.
Sementics this maybe, but just having one single playable PS3 game that's also happening to shipping on PCs first is not what I was talking about. We need to see original PS3 games in demo state good enough to play through and get a sense of gameplay, visuals and such. Then we'd know that PS3 launch around the corner is real and tangible.
choplifter said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the G70 just been out since summer 2005? That's their latest line of GPU's right? If it was summer 2004, they would've already had a new line to replace it by now. Or am I missing something here? Also, isn't that 128 bit bus a different bus than those used in GPU's?
Also, I don't know what you mean by mind-boggling, but wasn't it revealed recently that X360 costs upwards of 750$ to produce? I could perfectly expect the PS3 costing something like that as well, if not more. Still, since MS launches at $400,- Sony could do so as well. They'd offer arguably more value for that price too, certainly with the BD player and HDMI outputs.
Anyway, I personally think PS3 has always been planned for a Spring 2006 launch. As Sony stated, if that means Japan, US, Europe or even worldwide, still needs to be decided. But PS3 @ Spring 2006 was already targeted at a couple of years ago I'd guess. Seems they kept on schedule with development really well. That they revealed the planned release as soon as E3 last year, could of course have had something to do with stealing X360's thunder but that's a different issue altogether. Spring 2006 was set in stone a very long time ago, when to reveal that schedule publically all depended on MS strategy. That's my theory.
RidgeCityFM
Banned
nintendo had 10 years of mindshare too and then launched with an off format and it brought em down real quick.
SolidSnakex
Member
RidgeCityFM said:
They launched with an inferior format, Sony's is superior to what others are using.
DenogginizerOS said:Ray Charles saw this shit coming and he is DEAD!
:lol
kaching said:
Lazy? Knee jerk? I've had that viewpoint for almost a year. :lol You show me the evidence that has PS3 launching in North America by the end of June (and then tell me why it makes sense), because so far I'm not seeing shit.
It's a hell of a lot more lazy to just take what some PR suit says at face value without reading between the lines, not to mention using some fucking common sense.
Arsynic said:
You should do what I'd do...tell 'em to shut the fuck up and eat a dick. :lol No one's gonna say shit to me, cause they know they'll get it back tenfold.
marc^o^ said:
So why show it at E3 last year? Kinda flies in the face of that point doesn't it?
And weren't people expecting a major PS3 showing at CES? I sure wasn't...maybe some tech demos sure, but certainly nothing playable. Of course if PS3 was coming out in a few months you'd think they would've had something more to show. As of now they haven't even officially confirmed the controller's shape yet. Christ, even Nintendo's got that part done. :lol
DarienA said:
You expected the gaming media to do it's job? Perish the thought...
borghe said:
And that in a nutshell is where we are. You can argue about the how's and why's, but you can't argue against the facts. And what borghe stated is exactly that.
bishoptl said:
:lol Leave it to Bish to put things in their proper perspective...