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[mrklaw]

Hands down the best stand I saw at CES was Sony's. And in particular one pod showing their home network stuff.

They had a Set top box/HDD recorder with a DNLA compliant network server built in. Next to it they had a Vaio, also running a media server. And they had an LCD TV as a media player.

But they also had a PSP with some early new software which was being used as a media renderer. You could access both media servers and see all their content - combined into one list. They only had video working, but you could click on a video and it would start playing on the PSP. That was really good to see.


Then the guy on the stand asked me to flick the analog nub up. When I did this, the PSP 'threw' the video onto the TV. The TV immediately started playing back the video from where I'd left off. The PSP was then my remote control for play/pause etc. Flicking down on the nub pulled the video back down to my PSP.

It really was amazing to experience, and made a change from the other 'simple' server/client models going around.



I also asked the guy there if the PS3 would be DLNA compliant and he said yes. Of course, thats no confirmation, but Sony seem to be pushing hard this open home networking so I'm confident the PS3 will be a DLNA/UPnP media renderer.

That means it won't need MCE, just a UPnP server. Lots of software out there to do that, including being preloaded on NAS devices

 

[Lil' Dice]

Sure, but at this point i'll believe whatever Sony spits my way when i actually see it....

 

[monkeymagic]

Good news - now I won't have to rush out and buy MCE 2005 :lol

 

[[Nintex]]

its sounds like a very expensive setup. Something like the Nintendo connectivity idea , 4GBA's a cube and a game.
Sony thinks of something like this: PS3 > PSP > Walkman > Vaio > HDTV

 

[Mashing]

There's waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many acronyms in that post

 

[mckmas8808]

Hands down the best stand I saw at CES was Sony's. And in particular one pod showing their home network stuff.

They had a Set top box/HDD recorder with a DNLA compliant network server built in. Next to it they had a Vaio, also running a media server. And they had an LCD TV as a media player.

But they also had a PSP with some early new software which was being used as a media renderer. You could access both media servers and see all their content - combined into one list. They only had video working, but you could click on a video and it would start playing on the PSP. That was really good to see.


Then the guy on the stand asked me to flick the analog nub up. When I did this, the PSP 'threw' the video onto the TV. The TV immediately started playing back the video from where I'd left off. The PSP was then my remote control for play/pause etc. Flicking down on the nub pulled the video back down to my PSP.

It really was amazing to experience, and made a change from the other 'simple' server/client models going around.



I also asked the guy there if the PS3 would be DLNA compliant and he said yes. Of course, thats no confirmation, but Sony seem to be pushing hard this open home networking so I'm confident the PS3 will be a DLNA/UPnP media renderer.

That means it won't need MCE, just a UPnP server. Lots of software out there to do that, including being preloaded on NAS devices

Sounds nice.

 

[Suikoguy]

Sure, but at this point i'll believe whatever Sony spits my way when i actually see it....

After seeing the Interview on CBS with the new Sony CEO, i'd belive it.

 

[mckmas8808]

So okay what's really going on in human speak? And is there any links to this wonder stuff?

 

[mckmas8808]

After seeing the Interview on CBS with the new Sony CEO, i'd belive it.

FUCK!! I knew that was Stringer. Freaking girlfriend wanted to talk about her problems (Blah, blah, blah) and I seen a guy that I thought looked like Stringer but the TV was on mute.

I never turned it up. FUCK! What did Stringer say.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Sounds absolutley great. So Sony IS setting up their own MCE type of networking with their own products.

*mckmass: It was just talking about Sony financial troubles and how Howard Stringer was set in place to help Sony. Also gave backstory on Stringer and where he came from and what hes doing now (for Sony). Nothing about the PS3, interesting nonetheless

 

[gofreak]

Not really sure what all that means, except that another selling point of that $1800 Pioneer Blu-ray player was that it was DLNA compliant

Does this mean PSP is?

 

[BlueTsunami]

Not really sure what all that means, except that another selling point of that $1800 Pioneer Blu-ray player was that it was DLNA compliant

Does this mean PSP is?

Seems like it. The connectivity that Sony was talking about between the PSP and PS3 was probably really DLNA compliancy or something. That would rock

 

[Quartet]

can't wait to learn more about the PS3 root kit, it's gonna rock to have a nextgen root kit!

 

[mrklaw]

that setup was just an example - it doesn't need to cost a lot


If you have a PSP, you can stream stuff to it from your PC and watch. If you also have a PS3 or other media streaming device connected to your TV, you can use the PSP as a control point to let you choose what to watch before you put it on the big screen.

Perfect to watch Lost while someone else is using the TV, then when its free just 'throw' it to the big screen.

If you buy a PS3 and connect it to your TV. That will most likely also stream stuff over a network from any DLNA device (a home network standard). The only other thing you need is a PC running some server software - there are plenty to choose from.


The PSP isn't yet DLNA compliant - the software I saw was early demo code - but I'm certain it'll be out this year in Japan - Sony have DLNA TVs out there that they want to leverage.

If you choose, future TVs from Sony, Toshiba etc will have this network streaming stuff built in, so you can stream to your TV from your PC with nothing else needed.

Also, future HDD recorders etc will have the servers built in, so you don't even need a PC if you don't want one.

 

[BlueTsunami]

If you choose, future TVs from Sony, Toshiba etc will have this network streaming stuff built in, so you can stream to your TV from your PC with nothing else needed.

hmmmm....possibly a reason for Cell in TVs?

 

[Ponn]

This is the stuff i'm waiting to hear for PS3. A big reason why i'm sure they are not going to have a HDD is because they are really talking up this home network stuff and virtual hard drives. From the sounds of this OP this is what's going to happen. The PSP connectivity/remote/media viewer is just awesome icing on the cake. Can't wait till we hear more. As long as they don't fuck it up and require some stupid shit like MCE XP 2005 this will rock.

Like I said before, this is going to be fucking hilarious if Sony does the whole home media hub shit right from the get go since originally that was MS whole scheme they wanted.

 

[Vince]

good post

Welcome to... nevermind, I gave up. But, FWIW, Sony has been working on NAS; both stand-alone and virtual|over-IP, a PC will not be necessary. Cell Inside of course.

And much [most] of the planning for this broadband aware, IPv6-esque lifestyle was done pre-Stringer; although he'll get the nod if it works out.

 

[mrklaw]

Welcome to... nevermind, I gave up. But, FWIW, Sony has been working on NAS; both stand-alone and virtual|over-IP, a PC will not be necessary. Cell Inside of course.

? You've confused me.


If there's been speculation about it in the past, fine. But I'm actually happy to see Sony delivering on some of the potential, and especially using the PSP to move beyond the simple two-box solution.

If they do this right, they could make Xbox 360's home entertainment hub look crap. (note: I'm no Sony fanboy, but I am disappointed that MS hasn't properly delivered on the home media front)


of course a PC won't be necessary - My buffalo linkstation can already run Twonky medias UPnP server. But its there if you want it. Its also interesting to see all the HDD recorders with media servers in (Toshiba and Sony both had units on the floor)

 

[Vince]

? You've confused me.

I'm sorry, I (along with Panajev among others) have been talking about a Cell-based network topology like this which extends much further than the simple server/client paradigm that Microsoft is pushing for several years. It was just lost in debate to pretty pathetic counterarguments at B3D.

Microsoft is somewhat impeded in their home networking due to the fact that they are relient on the PC as a source of profit and revenue; they wouldn't want to make their primary revenue stream superfluous. CE companies, such as Sony, don't have such legacy and can explore more interesting networking concepts and topologies.

 

[BlueTsunami]

It was just lost in debate to pretty pathetic counterarguments at B3D.

Thats why i'm not really posting over there anymore. It seems that any interesting information thats brought up now has be be countered with counterarguments. This is great to hear though.

I've also been wanting to get a NAS drive myself. I hate having to have a PC on just to share out files. A NAS drive would be so beneficial (you can get a 200GB one now for about $200 or so).

 

[qirex]

They'll get a lot of goodwill from all us Mac weenies if they follow established standards for this stuff. Plus we're used to buying overpriced hardware. Although a free Mac UPnP server would be nice as well.

 

[p_xavier]

I just bought the most recent RoomLink, and it is DLNA compliant. This bodes well for the same thing in the Playstation3.

 

[BlueTsunami]

I pulled this from the DLNA site (FYI, DLNA stand for Digital Living Network Alliance)

01: What are the digital home and digital living?

The digital home is an evolution of the idea that PCs, consumer electronics (CE) and mobile devices should work together seamlessly through a wired or wireless network to share digital media within a home environment. Digital living extends that idea to reach beyond the home and to include sharing content while traveling, from the office, or any other possible scenario outside of the home.

02: What is Digital Living Network Alliance’s (DLNA’s) vision/charter?

Consumers are acquiring, viewing, and managing an increasing variety of digital media on devices in the CE, PC and mobile domains. In addition, they want to easily and conveniently enjoy this content using any electronic devices located anywhere in the home. The digital living vision will help realize this world through the goal of a seamless, interoperable network, which will deliver the applications that consumers desire, while providing an opportunity for manufacturers to innovate and differentiate their products.

03: How will the consumer benefit from digital living?

The goal of digital living is to provide consumers with seamless interoperability between devices over the network, regardless of manufacturer, resulting in an easy, out-of-the-box experience using any device. Consumers will benefit from the convenience and the flexibility associated with being able to select products from a range of different manufacturers.

07: What is the foundation for networking and interoperability in the digital home?

The IP family of protocols has been selected as the means to provide the foundation for the networking and connectivity of CE, mobile devices and PCs in the digital home. IP is also the basic means for establishing communications among all devices on the Internet.

08: How will media management, distribution and control work in the digital home?

Media management and control will enable devices and applications to identify, manage and distribute media content across the home network. UPnP™ Audio/Video (AV) technology addresses all of these needs and is the media management and control solution for products based on DLNA guidelines.

09: How does DLNA differ from existing organizations like the UPnP™ Forum and the Internet Home Alliance, which have similar visions?

The UPnP Forum is an industry initiative aimed at connectivity between stand-alone devices and PCs from different vendors. UPnP technology is a key standard required for an interoperable network in the digital home. On the other hand, the Internet Home Alliance, a cross-industry network of leading companies advancing the home technology market, explores new uses and conducts field trials to validate consumer needs. Both organizations are complementary to the vision of DLNA, which is focused on developing and promoting an interoperable network through a specific framework.

10: How will DLNA assure interoperability among PCs, CE devices and mobile devices?

Similar to other consortiums such as the USB Implementers Forum and the PCI Special Interest Group, DLNA facilitates interoperability and compatibility testing through its Certification Program, DLNA Plugfests and other means. "Plugfests" are compliance workshops at which DLNA members can test products with other products and DLNA testing tools for effective interoperability. DLNA frequently hosts plugfests around the globe.

12: How was DLNA formed, and when do meetings take place?

DLNA was introduced in June 2003 as the Digital Home Working Group (DHWG), and was renamed DLNA in June 2004. Today, DLNA is led by 21 promoter member companies which include Fujitsu, HP, Huawei, Intel, IBM, Kenwood, Lenovo, Microsoft, Motorola, NEC Personal Products, Nokia, Panasonic (Matsushita Electric Industrial), Philips, Pioneer, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, STMicroelectronics, Texas Instruments, Thomson and Toshiba. The first meeting of the DLNA board of directors was held in May 2003. Annual meetings are held for the entire membership, as well as quarterly meetings for promoter members. Committees driving each DLNA initiative also meet regularly. Exact dates and locations are determined prior

Source: http://www.dlna.org/home

 

[Fusebox]

Then the guy on the stand asked me to flick the analog nub up. When I did this, the PSP 'threw' the video onto the TV. The TV immediately started playing back the video from where I'd left off. The PSP was then my remote control for play/pause etc. Flicking down on the nub pulled the video back down to my PSP.

That's freaking amazing! I cant wait to get this tech home.

 

[Suikoguy]

*mckmass: It was just talking about Sony financial troubles and how Howard Stringer was set in place to help Sony. Also gave backstory on Stringer and where he came from and what hes doing now (for Sony). Nothing about the PS3, interesting nonetheless

But he also admited that they fucked up when it came to being so uptight about preventing piracy that it cost them. How this will effect future devices is uncertain, but the future in that respect certainly looks brighter.

 

[BlueTsunami]

But he also admited that they fucked up when it came to being so uptight about preventing piracy that it cost them. How this will effect future devices is uncertain, but the future in that respect certainly looks brighter.

Yep. I only hope Sony has learned from this and starts to get on the ball.

 

[Pimpwerx]

I'm sorry, I (along with Panajev among others) have been talking about a Cell-based network topology like this which extends much further than the simple server/client paradigm that Microsoft is pushing for several years. It was just lost in debate to pretty pathetic counterarguments at B3D.

Microsoft is somewhat impeded in their home networking due to the fact that they are relient on the PC as a source of profit and revenue; they wouldn't want to make their primary revenue stream superfluous. CE companies, such as Sony, don't have such legacy and can explore more interesting networking concepts and topologies.

I was thinking about the portability of code, and the ease of writing stuff like server clients that can run on Cell blades. I assume it should open up some more networking doors for the PS3. But I don't really know how current devs write server clients, or what hardware they use, so I'm not sure. I just thought it was an interesting concept considering Cell should be used in servers as well as the consoles.

Connectivity with home appliances should also be cool, but I'll admit that I'm much less interested in that end of things. I don't plan on buying many Sony products other than Playstations, so it'll have to uPnP or nothing. PEACE.

 

[gofreak]

But they also had a PSP with some early new software which was being used as a media renderer. You could access both media servers and see all their content - combined into one list. They only had video working, but you could click on a video and it would start playing on the PSP. That was really good to see.

A question about this. Did the PSP only display video that it could play natively?

Reading the DLNA website, they describe scenarios where one device shares media with another, which it cannot play, and it gets converted on-the-fly to be playable on the other device. Thinking of PS3, here, imagine having a bunch of video on your PS3 HDD. Your PSP accesses it, goes to play one of them - will Cell then automatically format the video for PSP, and send it over?

I wonder if the set-top box was doing this? For instance, when you "pushed" the video onto the TV, did it look like it was at an appropriate resolution for the TV? Or was it PSP's resolution?

 

[Vashu]

That would be awesome, imagine sitting in a train, for about 2 or 3 hours and you get bored. You recall you had some movies or episodes on your system and decide to watch them on your PSP (or other media handheld device) while far away from home. I really like the sound of it.

 

[Ghost]

Sounds cool but the more i think about it the more i think it'll probably be a couple of years at least before they properly sort everything out so its not more hassle than its worth. I'll save my excitement till then.

 

[Ghost]

That would be awesome, imagine sitting in a train, for about 2 or 3 hours and you get bored. You recall you had some movies or episodes on your system and decide to watch them on your PSP (or other media handheld device) while far away from home. I really like the sound of it.

....(broadband) internet connection required.

 

[Sirolf]

Then the guy on the stand asked me to flick the analog nub up. When I did this, the PSP 'threw' the video onto the TV. The TV immediately started playing back the video from where I'd left off. The PSP was then my remote control for play/pause etc. Flicking down on the nub pulled the video back down to my PSP.

Good to see this tech again!!
I've seen it at the Sony Dreamworld in 2004 (Paris,France) and it really looked incredible then with a dedicated remote control and a big plasma.As incredible as the Blu Ray tech which was demontrasted for the first time in public back then !

 

[BudokaiMR2]

This could make the PS3 a lot more interesting. Please let all this be true, so many good ideas. I want better networking capabilities in my house.

And I'm tired of M$, please do something sony so I have more options besides their Media center.

Damn M$, they have just been holding back innovation in these various fields.

 

[Vashu]

....(broadband) internet connection required.

No problem, by the time the tech comes out speeds will have gone up, and already wifi and other internet connections are being set up everywhere. A few weeks ago I even read about an experiment here in The Netherlands where they incorporated a WiFi station into a train.

Could be a standard within 2 years time, that's what I hope at least.

 

[gofreak]

That would be awesome, imagine sitting in a train, for about 2 or 3 hours and you get bored. You recall you had some movies or episodes on your system and decide to watch them on your PSP (or other media handheld device) while far away from home. I really like the sound of it.

As long as your train has wifi access

Of course, you could always download stuff to your PSP before leaving the house.

Sounds cool but the more i think about it the more i think it'll probably be a couple of years at least before they properly sort everything out so its not more hassle than its worth. I'll save my excitement till then.

Yeah, I worry it'd be a while before we see this all functioning as the theory describes...prove me wrong, Sony.

That said, if PS3 is to be DLNA-compliant at some point, I'm not sure how much effort it would take on their part to have PS3 at least being capable as a UPnP renderer out of the box. At the very least, that'd let you set up a UPnP media server on your PC that your PS3 could access media from, if you don't have any other media servers. Then later on, I'd expect both PS3 and PSP to be capable as servers and renderers.

 

[Jerkface]

This could make the PS3 a lot more interesting. Please let all this be true, so many good ideas. I want better networking capabilities in my house.

And I'm tired of M$, please do something sony so I have more options besides their Media center.

Damn M$, they have just been holding back innovation in these various fields.

:lol

They are part of the DLNA, they have the playsforsure standard, Media Center is a hugely viable option for legitimate content and will be included in Vista. What more do you want?

 

[Blimblim]

I don't know much about all the Upnp / DNLA, would such a setup allow me to stream any type of video to the PS3, or only supported formats?

 

[Jerkface]

I don't know much about all the Upnp / DNLA, would such a setup allow me to stream any type of video to the PS3, or only supported formats?

That remains to be seen, I would guess the legitimate formats supported by the PSP currently would give a good indication.

 

[gofreak]

I don't know much about all the Upnp / DNLA, would such a setup allow me to stream any type of video to the PS3, or only supported formats?

I'm wondering the same thing. The use-cases I read on the DLNA site suggest that a server would convert media on the fly to a format that the renderer can accept. That may be a best case scenario though. It suggests a need for some power, especially if you don't want the renderer waiting too long for the media it requested. That's where something like PS3 could be very useful, though - Cell could do that kind of thing in its sleep (and may be another reason for reserving an entire SPE for the OS as rumoured).

In other words - I think it depends on whether your media server, whatever it may be, supports media conversion.

I'm wondering if for the demo mrklaw describes, if the set-top box was formatting the video for PSP upon demand, or what. It would be trivial for demo purposes to have two different files on the server - one for playback on the TV, one for the PSP - but possibly less trivial to have such a seamless connection between the two when you throw the video onto the tv and back again.

 

[gofreak]

Here's a good article on UPnP/DLNA, actually, with an answer to Blim's question, and my own:

http://www.digitalhomemag.com/featu...=37803&subsectionid=1300&subsubsectionid=1597

The intelligence of the control point is key. As Andrew Liu, former Business Development Manager for Intel’s Network Architecture Lab, now Senior Product Manager at Pure Networks, points out: “In UPnP AV, the control point discovers audio/visual devices on the network, locates the content selected by the user, determines a common transfer protocol and media format, and initiates and controls the transfer to the renderer, including instructions on how the content is to be rendered (brightness, contrast, colour levels, volume, and so on) and how the content should flow (play, stop, pause, seek, next, previous).”

This means that a PC acting as a media server won’t enable, say, a Philips SLA 5500 wireless audio player (the media renderer) to see photos or video files, because these files will be unplayable on the Philips hardware.

All audio files will, however, be accessible, even those that aren’t directly supported by the media renderer. Some UPnP AV control points, such as Nero’s MediaHome Server, are capable of transcoding media on the fly. Such a control point would be able to convert a WMA file into an MP3 file if a media renderer didn’t natively support the WMA format.

So it depends on the software you're using in your server.

 

[Blimblim]

Here's a good article on UPnP/DLNA, actually, with an answer to Blim's question, and my own:

http://www.digitalhomemag.com/featu...=37803&subsectionid=1300&subsubsectionid=1597



So it depends on the software you're using in your server.

Thanks for that, that was I was hoping it would do. Just like VideoLan/VLC does. Nifty stuff, even if it requires a big PC it's still better than having a HTPC near the TV.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

This isn't exactly new though. In fact, we all have most, if not all the needed components. At this point we're just waiting on the software (while things like XBMC hold us down in the interim). My concern is the licensing needed to be able to be codec friendly. Current devices on the market that do this are very restricted in this regard.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

I'm sorry, I (along with Panajev among others) have been talking about a Cell-based network topology like this which extends much further than the simple server/client paradigm that Microsoft is pushing for several years. It was just lost in debate to pretty pathetic counterarguments at B3D.

Microsoft is somewhat impeded in their home networking due to the fact that they are relient on the PC as a source of profit and revenue; they wouldn't want to make their primary revenue stream superfluous. CE companies, such as Sony, don't have such legacy and can explore more interesting networking concepts and topologies.

This is what I am talking about jerkface(sorry )

I was just talking in pretty general terms, because M$ makes so much money for doing so little. I mean they have some of the best talent in the industry, but seriously look at XP and then look back at Wndowns 95. A good 10 years ago and almost nothing has changed.

Although Vistas does look promising, still not innovative. I just expect more from the company that owns the OS market.

 

[Deg]

Yeah the exciting thing about Pioneer's Blu ray player was it could do all this stuff and they did say it had special sound features that enthusiasts would love. I think in the future having a player with networking features makes more sense than dumping a pc under your tv.


Also bear in mind portables are also going to cater to this market. Nokia have a phone coming in March that will be used for connecting media.

 

[gofreak]

Also bear in mind portables are also going to cater to this market. Nokia have a phone coming in March that will be used for connecting media.

I believe the n Series is UPnP compliant, or some of it at least. The n92 is for sure (is that the one coming in March?)

 

[Ghost]

Yeah the exciting thing about Pioneer's Blu ray player was it could do all this stuff and they did say it had special sound features that enthusiasts would love. I think in the future having a player with networking features makes more sense than dumping a pc under your tv.

Id say it makes much more sense to have your media stored on a PC where its much easier to manage & add to. Leave the living room & portable devices to concentrate on displaying the content.

 

[mrklaw]

N80 is UPnP compliant and was at the DLNA stand at CES. You can use it in a similar way to the PSP - eg view photos on your phone, then press a button to view the slideshow on the TV - the phone then becomes the controller (also giving you a preview of the next photo)


And this isn't far away - there are plenty of DLNA devices out now, and more to come. Intel's VIIV (pronouned like Five) branding is basically a pretty consumer umbrella to cover DLNA home networking for media (also some other stuff that you need a fancy new pentium for

Id say it makes much more sense to have your media stored on a PC where its much easier to manage & add to. Leave the living room & portable devices to concentrate on displaying the content.

For transcoding stuff, yes. But if you have stuff in the right format, you just need a NAS with a simple media server on it. Like a buffalo linkstation or Terastation.