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[LiquidSolid]

Microsoft literally has nothing to stop the Pro until Scorpio arrives. Their entire plan was to unveil Scorpio, proclaim it as the most powerful system ever with maybe 3-4 technical bulletpoints that range from vague (6TF, "true 4k," "VR capable") to silly ("the most beautiful pixels"), and play that up from now until release. Find me an interview with Phil that has any actual details about Scorpio compared to any Cerny interview about Pro. You can't. Obviously that's because one is releasing in a few weeks, another is still in early production. Phil has nothing but words to sell, and he sells them fairly well.

All devs are rushing to not only meet holiday deadlines but Pro compatibility as well for launch. I don't think Sony even knows what's going to be 100% ready for Pro launch. Since October all games are Pro-compatible so this is only a launch problem, but is it really asking a lot to not buy a Pro at launch and see what's going to be available?

Agreed, though I'd also point out that even some of the vague details Microsoft have given have still resulted in a lot of mixed messaging. Remember how their execs would continually contradict each other over whether the Scorpio would receive exclusives or not? Then the final line was "there will be no exclusive games but VR games will be exclusive", as if VR games aren't games.

 

[Bold One]

Actually all three were spaced out pretty well across 2 months almost.

8 weeks is not a long time to launch three major pieces of hardware

 

[icespide]

8 weeks is not a long time to launch three major pieces of hardware

or is it

 

[gtj1092]

It almost sounds like those worried about the ps4 pro have never purchased a console before. Considering they can't make a purchase decision without knowing how every single game is going to run because as we all know before the pro game performance was standardized across the board.

 

[The Beard]

It almost sounds like those worried about the ps4 pro have never purchased a console before. Considering they can't make a purchase decision without knowing how every single game is going to run because as we all know before the pro game performance was standardized across the board.

At least when you bought a new console in the past, you'd get to play some unique games. This is completely unknown and up to the developers discretion.

 

[PBY]

It almost sounds like those worried about the ps4 pro have never purchased a console before. Considering they can't make a purchase decision without knowing how every single game is going to run because as we all know before the pro game performance was standardized across the board.

This isn't really analogous to whats happening here.

 

[DjRalford]

Agreed, though I'd also point out that even some of the vague details Microsoft have given have still resulted in a lot of mixed messaging. Remember how their execs would continually contradict each other over whether the Scorpio would receive exclusives or not? Then the final line was "there will be no exclusive games but VR games will be exclusive", as if VR games aren't games.

After seeing what a bog standard PS4 is capable of in VR it'd be a shame if MS couldn't get some level of VR onto XBONE.

 

[Bsigg12]

After seeing what a bog standard PS4 is capable of in VR it'd be a shame if MS couldn't get some level of VR onto XBONE.

Depends on what they do for a headset. If they decide to just ultimately partner with Valve/HTC and Oculus to support the Vive and Rift, they would need to hit 90fps on any of the content being played because those devices both require 90fps. I think this is the exact reason why they had said the Scorpio will support VR. I doubt they release their own headset.

 

[DjRalford]

Depends on what they do for a headset. If they decide to just ultimately partner with Valve/HTC and Oculus to support the Vive and Rift, they would need to hit 90fps on any of the content being played because those devices both require 90fps. I think this is the exact reason why they had said the Scorpio will support VR. I doubt they release their own headset.

I forgot about the reprojection thing on PSVR, so potentially VR stuff in Scorpio may only just look as good as stuff on PSVR from the Pro? as Devs can run at 60fps and reproject on PSVR leaving wiggle room for details, for Rift / Vive they would have to find a 50% framerate boost for VR stuff on Scorpio.

 

[gtj1092]

At least when you bought a new console in the past, you'd get to play some unique games. This is completely unknown and up to the developers discretion.

How is it different when you are still making a decision to purchase a console on a game by game basis. Whether that be for exclusives or better performance in certain games. I just think instead claiming to be confused most are simply don't feel a pro is worth purchasing. I just don't get the demand to know how each game is going to perform. How would sony know. If improved performance doesn't interest you then the pro isn't for you. But it's nonsensical to expect Sony to detail how every game will run at launch and in the future. No console has every game run at the same settings or quality so why would that be the expectation now? It's not like sony guaranteed how every game would look and run when the ps4 launched.

 

[Bsigg12]

I forgot about the reprojection thing on PSVR, so potentially VR stuff in Scorpio may only just look as good as stuff on PSVR from the Pro? as Devs can run at 60fps and reproject on PSVR leaving wiggle room for details, for Rift / Vive they would have to find a 50% framerate boost for VR stuff on Scorpio.

Neither the Rift nor Vive support a 120hz refresh rate. They're locked in at 90hz. Oculus did just announce asynchronous spacewarp which is apparently allowing them to lower the minimum requirement on PC so that might play a part. Again that's speculating that the Rift is coming to the Scorpio, nothing official has been said.

 

[DjRalford]

Neither the Rift nor Vive support a 120hz refresh rate. They're locked in at 90hz. Oculus did just announce asynchronous spacewarp which is apparently allowing them to lower the minimum requirement on PC so that might play a part. Again that's speculating that the Rift is coming to the Scorpio, nothing official has been said.

Yeah, which is why i said they would need to find a 50% framerate boost over the performance needed on PSVR

PSVR - 60fps reprojected to 120fps
Vive / Rift - 90fps

I am assuming the spacewarp is similar to the Custom VR stuff outlined in the Pro, something to do with less resources needed for the scene outside the users viewpoint allowing more to be done in game.

Yeah, nothing concrete on a MS VR solution yet.

 

[Crayon]

The pro does only needs to gradually take over from the regular ps4 in terms of sales. The information about it so far seems more than adequate.

The dedicated enthusiasts who are considering trading up from ps4 to pro are certainly the minority of projected sales. The bulk should be the same demographic that buys the ps4 now. The price points to this.

 

[Sniffynose]

what the heck are you talking about? we have lots of real information, including several posts and links in this very thread

Ya we have some vague ass details on a select few games... but hey hop on the speculation train...

 

[Lady Gaia]

Ya we have some vague ass details on a select few games... but hey hop on the speculation train...

Do we normally get more technical details on unreleased titles? Much of the time it's only post-release analysis that confirms resolution and frame rate. I understand that finding out more might be critical to your purchasing decision, and that's absolutely your prerogative. The console will still be available for sale long after concrete details become available.

 

[Saberus]

1. Well, few threads today have been interesting read when it comes to the Pro, seems what I'm getting from some is the Pro is a bastard child of the PS4 and the big GPU is nothing than a paper weight and its a 4k wannabe.

2. Has no games ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

3. Mark Cerny is a Lying dummy.



I'm looking forward to playing this Bastard.

 

[kyser73]

1. Well, few threads today have been interesting read when it comes to the Pro, seems what I'm getting from some is the Pro is a bastard child of the PS4 and the big GPU is nothing than a paper weight and its a 4k wannabe.

2. Has no games ¯_(&#12484_/¯

3. Mark Cerny is a Lying dummy.

4. Buy a Switch/Scorpio, it's awesome

I'm looking forward to playing this Bastard.

FTFY

 

[Sniffynose]

Do we normally get more technical details on unreleased titles? Much of the time it's only post-release analysis that confirms resolution and frame rate. I understand that finding out more might be critical to your purchasing decision, and that's absolutely your prerogative. The console will still be available for sale long after concrete details become available.

All I am saying is people need to stop sugar coating the shit out of things because either way right or wrong for or against there is little in the way of an argument in either direction.

I still have one on pre-order, hell I even have a 850 evo waiting to put in it.

Everyone going on like it's Jesus' return though need a reality check because we have zero actual technical proof of anything other than a few promised revisions which might not even happen at the launch of some games not to mention the fact developers literally need to do the bare possible minimum to add a "Pro Mode" which in itself leads to more questions, making every game a case by case basis.

We've heard from a few people now that there's likely an NDA until November so hopefully once that hits we can get a full view of expectations.

People have every right to wonder what will happen and shouldn't be pissed on for being skeptical instead of just gobbling up their "PR Stew" lol.

TLDR: This could go very bad if developers don't give a shit (zero vs 40+ million install base) and with no (as far as we've been told) benefit to the massive past and current as in this month's library of games expectations need to be held in check, and misinformation and PR need to be taken with a shovel of salt until technical tests prove otherwise.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Oh no, sniffynose is going to start shouting and swearing and preorder cancelling at Sony again.

 

[icespide]

is sniffynose okay?

 

[Always-honest]

TLDR: This could go very bad if developers don't give a shit (zero vs 40+ million install base) and with no (as far as we've been told) benefit to the massive past and current as in this month's library of games expectations need to be held in check, and misinformation and PR need to be taken with a shovel of salt until technical tests prove otherwise.

Pre-release stress?

 

[Crayon]

Why do you have this thing you don't know enough about on preorder?

 

[Verendus]

Oh no, sniffynose is going to start shouting and swearing and preorder cancelling at Sony again.

is sniffynose okay?

What does Donald Trump have to do with this?

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

It's funny, because if no developers give a shit about Pro, we'll all still be getting PS4 games anyway. If you don't buy in, you lose nothing, so just wait and see.

You don't have to be there for day one.

 

[Sniffynose]

Why do you have this thing you don't know enough about on preorder?

I'm very dissapointed that the entire library aside from a select few will see no benefit at all. That being said the few games I am really looking forward to supposedly have benefits but it's a huge wait and see approach.

So I mean ya, the real reason I have it pre-ordered is I am impatient and my luck come the week of release we will get a good flow of info and promises.. hell maybe even something regarding the games we already own like Dragon Quest Builders getting an FPS bump, and with my luck it would be sold out until March or something lol.

I can tell I am pissing people off by the mocking, I just thought maybe sometimes it might be better if people read some truthful honest opinions instead of constantly repeating PR and marketing /shrug

 

[Always-honest]

I'm very dissapointed that the entire library aside from a select few will see no benefit at all. That being said the few games I am really looking forward to supposedly have benefits but it's a huge wait and see approach.

So I mean ya, the real reason I have it pre-ordered is I am impatient and my luck come the week of release we will get a good flow of info and promises.. hell maybe even something regarding the games we already own like Dragon Quest Builders getting an FPS bump, and with my luck it would be sold out until March or something lol.

I can tell I am pissing people off by the mocking, I just thought maybe sometimes it might be better if people read some truthful honest opinions instead of constantly repeating PR and marketing /shrug

Oh right.
You are rational and the rest of us a sheep.

I agree that, especially when it comes to older games, we're not sure yet what the pro will bring. But people have seen Pro versions of upcoming games first hand. It's not just blind faith.

 

[GinoFelino]

Oh right.
You are rational and the rest of us a sheep.

I agree that, especially when it comes to older games, we're not sure yet what the pro will bring. But people have seen Pro versions of upcoming games first hand. It's not just blind faith.

It is with me. The Pro is Jesus' return, after all.

In any case, and this is a minor point; many TV brands have a soft and underwhelming upscaler from 1080p to 4K. Sony's upscalers (in their TVs and players at least) are the best in the business alongside Samsung. You may still see a noticeable PQ difference in non-patched games because the PS4P will likely handle upscaling instead of your TV.

But of course, that's certainly no reason in itself to buy a 400,- device.

 

[Sniffynose]

Oh right.
You are rational and the rest of us a sheep.

I agree that, especially when it comes to older games, we're not sure yet what the pro will bring. But people have seen Pro versions of upcoming games first hand. It's not just blind faith.

But it is to a degree, since every single game has different support, some might be next to nothing vs OG.

And no nobody else is "a sheep" I am just over-reacting in the opposite direction of most. I'm excited, anxious and impatient like the rest of us. I just want to see the proof before preaching it as fact sorta thing, it's a really weird situation because normally blanket statements apply but with the PS4 Pro we can't really assume anything at all.

I just hope it gets the Dev support it needs and it would be a much needed boost to it's perceived value if there was a way to improve older titles without needing individual patches. I still have a slight hope that the difference in architecture and bandwidth might push things even on equal clock speeds but who knows.

 

[Sony]

PS4Pro will sell really well. Historically, the Playstation brand is the go-to brand as a thing to have. People will buy it because it's PS and apparently that's what you should have.

A lot of the people I know bought a PS4 because it's the latest, it sits in the living room almost as a decoration.

 

[Marty Chinn]

PS4Pro will sell really well. Historically, the Playstation brand is the go-to brand as a thing to have. People will buy it because it's PS and apparently that's what you should have.

A lot of the people I know bought a PS4 because it's the latest, it sits in the living room almost as a decoration.

Yet we just came off a generation where the Xbox 360 was the leading platform in the US and Xbox Live was the go to online community. People sure jumped from that quickly. Not to mention Nintendo used to be the go to brand as well. The reasons you supply here aren't reasons to make such a bold claim that the Pro is going to sell well.

 

[T_Exige]

Same thing with the PSVR, haven't seen much about that either. At least not in Belgium.
Potential customers that don't visit game related websites don't even know it exists.
I know Gamemania did a tryout on saturday and a 1 min newsitem on local news.

 

[Tailzo]

I've preordered a PS4 pro.

Why?

Well I bought my ps4 at launch. With some games, I was able to get a very nice price for it (sold it a month or two ago), so I thought "why not?". It didn't cost me much extra to make the upgrade. Since I never upgraded my HDD in my old ps4, I am also getting the bigger HDD with the pro.

+ I am getting psvr, and hopefully the ps4 pro will help a bit with the IQ in some of the games.

I don't feel the ps4 pro needs to bea real beast when it's not that much more expensive. But if I didn't already sell my old ps4, no I would not have preordered the pro.

The Scorpio might be interesting, but I don't know enough about it yet.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

Yet we just came off a generation where the Xbox 360 was the leading platform in the US and Xbox Live was the go to online community. People sure jumped from that quickly. Not to mention Nintendo used to be the go to brand as well. The reasons you supply here aren't reasons to make such a bold claim that the Pro is going to sell well.

Fairly certain the PS3 still outsold it in the end. Just saying.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Fairly certain the PS3 still outsold it in the end. Just saying.

Not in the US. Sony never came close in the US. It took the rest of the world to pick up the slack and even then it just barely surpassed them. Microsoft made huge gains in the last generation despite the PlayStation 2 being huge. So this notion of a go to brand doesn't guarantee success given the history of consoles over the last 30 years.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

Not in the US. Sony never came close in the US. It took the rest of the world to pick up the slack and even then it just barely surpassed them. Microsoft made huge gains in the last generation despite the PlayStation 2 being huge. So this notion of a go to brand doesn't guarantee success given the history of consoles over the last 30 years.

But I mean, to a degree, it does. Sony have consistently outperformed Microsoft in overall sales, despite having less money to throw around and coming out of the gate lethargically slow last gen. Behind Nintendo, they have that gaming brand power, and it's certainly helped them over the years, regardless of if their product truly offered the best value for gamers or not. Arguably, their products always have, with PS Plus offering extraordinary value last gen and their less restrictive and cheaper platform allowing them to take a massive lead early on this gen. However, it's really no different to how Apple operate - regardless of the quality of their products, they'll sell, because they're Apple. Sony have that brand power, and Microsoft were getting there too. Sadly, they've damaged that brand considerably since the 360.

 

[Sony]

Yet we just came off a generation where the Xbox 360 was the leading platform in the US and Xbox Live was the go to online community. People sure jumped from that quickly. Not to mention Nintendo used to be the go to brand as well. The reasons you supply here aren't reasons to make such a bold claim that the Pro is going to sell well.

The Xbox 360 launched a full year before the PS3 and in some areas more than a year before the PS3. It has a behemoth of a marketing budget and was even mentioned in mainstream media.

The PS3 launched a year later with a significantly higher price, with significantly less games and with significantly inferior ports of multiplatform games (until 2009-ish), with a significantly less capable OS (no in-game XMB) and a significantly inferior online infrastructure. Yet, it outsold the 360 worldwide for every year it was on the market.

 

[boneyjangles]

Because for Sony PS5 will be a clean break tech wise.

Nah, it's not. It's going to be another x86 machine that will run most, if not all PS4 games.

They days of giving up your game collection because of a generational shift are gone, and only existed in the first place because of radically different architectures.

We are reaching 'peak silicon'. There is only so much smaller it can be made and we are already wrestling with transistors being just a few atoms across. Those mega PC's pulling 4K resolutions have physically massive GPUs with big fans, that draw a lot of watts.

We are also reaching a point were artistry and budget are more important than FLOPS and processing power. All that power needs great artists and attention to take advantage, that's why we see PS4 games that look not much better than PS3, then others that are quite spectacular.

PS4 pro might be 50% more powerful, but it's only going to make games look 'a bit better'. Everyone in here who's arguing that it's not a big upgrade is exactly right, but 100% wrong when they say the Scorpio WILL be a much more noticeable upgrade, it just isn't. Same way the difference between the Xbox One and standard PS4 is perceptually much smaller than their power difference. VS Scorpio, the PS4 Pro is going to be the same shit with minor differences in resolution/sharpness.

But for me this upgrade is 100% worth it and I'll be getting a pro day 1.

 

[Trup1aya]

Agreed, though I'd also point out that even some of the vague details Microsoft have given have still resulted in a lot of mixed messaging. Remember how their execs would continually contradict each other over whether the Scorpio would receive exclusives or not? Then the final line was "there will be no exclusive games but VR games will be exclusive", as if VR games aren't games.

I'm still not sure why this confuses people. Its pretty clear that the OG Xbox One can't support VR, which the industry treats as a platform in and of itself.

Why would the Scorpio supporting VR retroactively give the Xbox One VR support?

 

[Sony]

Agreed, though I'd also point out that even some of the vague details Microsoft have given have still resulted in a lot of mixed messaging. Remember how their execs would continually contradict each other over whether the Scorpio would receive exclusives or not? Then the final line was "there will be no exclusive games but VR games will be exclusive", as if VR games aren't games.

Constant mixed messaging is a bit of a strech. There was a tweet that contradicted something that was said, and another tweet set that straight.

VR games are games, on a VR platform. Xbox One doesn't support that as it has no proprietary solution for VR and it does not meet the requirements for off the shelve VR solutions. Why is that such a scandal?

Microsoft even said in a recent interview tha the aim of Scorpio is to provide Xbox One quality games in native 4k, which is a realistic expectation given the 6TF capability of the machine. How is that not providing clarity?

Microsoft also said that all of your Xbox One games will work on Scorpio and visa versa, except for VR because of the reason above. The only thing that is uncertain at this point is what advantage Scorpio will give to 1080p tv/monitor users. But seeing as this advantages isn't even properly communicated to consumers by a platformholder that wil launch their 4k solution in the very near future, I think Microsoft can be excused not have this clear yet more than a year before their 4k platform launches :/

 

[Inuhanyou]

So, now that the thread has calmed down a bit, what specifically are people who are disappointed with the PR want to see most? More commercials? More demonstrations? More information from specific devs about what their games will aim for?

 

[Always-honest]

So, now that the thread has calmed down a bit, what specifically are people who are disappointed with the PR want to see most? More commercials? More demonstrations? More information from specific devs about what their games will aim for?

From what i understand i think more direct comparisons from devs and Sony. Showing the differences and detailing the differences.

 

[Ammogeddon]

I feel that I was informed enough and I'll pick a Pro up day one.

I am am lucky enough to have a 4K tv and PSVR.

If you don't have either of those things there's probably no point.

 

[J_ToSaveTheDay]

So, now that the thread has calmed down a bit, what specifically are people who are disappointed with the PR want to see most? More commercials? More demonstrations? More information from specific devs about what their games will aim for?

1080p demonstrations. Sony Meeting had a bunch of cool checkerboard+HDR stuff that people could not see properly through the release media because most people still don't have 4K+HDR. I absolutely believe the reports that this footage was remarkable, but I can't see it because I don't have a 4K+HDR screen.

Best I feel I've gotten so far is two reports from Digital Foundry about Rise of the Tomb Raider visibly having multiple selectable Pro Modes based on user preference and their theoretical supersample of Horizon: Zero Dawn 4K screenshots, which were intended more to demonstrate how the checkerboard effect would look on a 4K display, not exactly a confirmation that the supersample technique would be implemented.

Still, I'm optimistic it'll be a worthy upgrade to anyone that has one. I am just eager to actually see it more frequently in media.

 

[Always-honest]

I feel that I was informed enough and I'll pick a Pro up day one.

I am am lucky enough to have a 4K tv and PSVR.

If you don't have either of those things there's probably no point.

You were not informed enough.

 

[vivekTO]

what the heck are you talking about? we have lots of real information, including several posts and links in this very thread

Leave him Alone!!

 

[Ammogeddon]

You were not informed enough.

Sorry who are you?

I know what I'm doing thanks.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I wish someone could just say things and people would understand what they mean.

Every game with a higher internal resolution on PRO be it checkerboard, 4K or anything in between will be downsampled to 1080p screens, giving you significally better image quality than 1080p would give you, in addition to whatever improvements they have to the game graphically or performance wise. 1080p enhanced titles are also a thing.

I don't know how many times people have to say 1080p TV gamers will benefit from Pro(arguably even more than 4K owners) before it sinks in.

You don't have to have a 4K screen, period.

 

[Always-honest]

Sorry who are you?

I know what I'm doing thanks.

No you do not:

I wish someone could just say things and people would understand what they mean.

Every game with a higher internal resolution on PRO be it checkerboard, 4K or anything in between will be downsampled to 1080p screens, giving you significally better image quality than 1080p would give you, in addition to whatever improvements they have to the game graphically or performance wise. 1080p enhanced titles are also a thing.

I don't know how many times people have to say 1080p TV gamers will benefit from Pro(arguably even more than 4K owners) before it sinks in.

 

[spannicus]

Where are all the trade up deals?

 

[GinoFelino]

You were not informed enough.

Sorry who are you?

I know what I'm doing thanks.

Haha, sass for days!

This thing should release already so we can have the media do the work.

This shit keeps going around in circles re: 1080p prowess.