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[Xyphie]

My bet would be that most differences will be fairly moot in the grand scheme of things. PS4 version will obviously on net be preferable though unless there are considerations beside graphics (OS, graphics, community). The worst case scenario for a XO port will probably be something like 2MP vs ~1.5MP (1600*900, 1920*800) or dynamic resolution and PPAA vs MSAA.

 

[i-Lo]

PS4:
1080p
60fps
MSAAx8
AFx16
high-res alpha blending
real-time global illumination
high res shadows

Xbone
720p
30fps
no AA or some cheap FXAA
no AF
low res alpha blending
rudimentary lighting
shadows turned off

Looks like you got people to take this post seriously. Hehe.

 

[mrklaw]

It's not 50% anymore. It's 40%. MS have announced a speed bump. And driver maturity can make a big difference.

MS is basing on directX which has never been that lean. Sony are continuing with their openGL/LibGCM which should be plenty efficient

 

[uncledonnie]

Any reason why it's going to take Sony's 1st party devs any extra year to put out those amazing games?

Yeah this is the part I'm having trouble following, especially since it's coming from insiders like thuway. The architecture is so much simpler this time around and if it really is such a linear power advantage (and I do think that's the case), then I expect to see the results fairly soon out of the gate, not 2-3 years down the road.

 

[FranXico]

Here is a curveball... I predict some MPs will look and/or run better on X1 due to the drivers and other software things.

Yes, because SCE R&D are just sitting on their thumbs.

 

[googleplex]

Both roughly equal I think, with the PC version being far superior.

Who's PC? Certainly not mine! And I'd bet certainly not most gaf'ers

 

[Papacheeks]

Any reason why it's going to take Sony's 1st party devs any extra year to put out those amazing games?

Driver maturity from AMD, and OS tweaks. But we will see great games within First year of the Consoles release.

Have you see this video for Infamous Second Son?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlm-AFVzDcc

Lots of awesome looking effects, and awesome character model.

 

[Spongebob]

PS4
1080p
30fps locked
MSAA (Or MSAA + FXAA)
Effects on "high"

Xbone
~1080p
~30fps
FXAA
Effects on "medium"

Also, lol at OP's driver statement. Multiple devs have said that Sony's tools are more mature atm.

 

[Plinko]

I've got a crazy prediction: Multiplats are nearly identical in most cases, just like this generation, because third-parties won't take the time to optimize them.

 

[cyberheater]

MS is basing on directX which has never been that lean. Sony are continuing with their openGL/LibGCM which should be plenty efficient

If that's the case then why are 80% or more of multiplatform games better looking on Xbox 360 then?

 

[op_ivy]

i think we'll see basically what we saw this gen, only reversed with x1 getting slightly inferior ports. it will make for a lot of show boating and internet bragging rights, lots of big digital foundry threads about how broken such and such port is, but the end user likely would never notice a difference themselves (in most cases) unless they saw them side by side.

i expect x1 multplats to generally have one or occasionally more of the following:
- less stable framerate.
- lower, or variable resolution where the ps4 game is 1080p
- lower quality shadows/particles/other effects. but nothing mind blowing.

i also expect 1st party ps4 games to look noticably better then all but the very best x1 games. this again is like this gen where ps3's best definitely have an edge over nearly all 360 games.

 

[mrklaw]

Yea, I did the same calculations as well and inevitably reached the same conclusion. That said we don't know what amount of computational power of GPU is reserved by PS4's OS but I can't think it can be worse than what Xb1 reserves. Then again, if the ram malarkey has shown something it's the Sony can still raise plenty of eyebrows for the wrong reasons.

GPu reservation for PS4 will almost certainly be a lot lower than Xbox 1. Xbox needs to reserve GPU for when you're using snap mode, to drive the 2nd UI while still playing games. PS4 won't need to do that, only the usual minor notification pop-ups.

I'd expect the difference to still be around 50% even with the latest bump

If that's the case then why are 80% or more of multiplatform games better looking on Xbox 360 then?

X360 is easier to get good results from. Has no bearing on the drivers or graphics interfaces used.

 

[googleplex]

It's not 50% anymore. It's 40%. MS have announced a speed bump. And driver maturity can make a big difference.

A small clock speed increase is not going to make much of a difference! Don't get your hopes up.

 

[iceatcs]

Thanks.

I don't understand why MS would go through the loops of slightly increasing GPU clock speed if they are going to squander 10% for the OS. At this point. I don't believe that this figure of 10% is true anymore. Certainly not while the game is full screen.

I also think that to gain an advantage (or remain in shouting distance of parity). It would make sense to free up an additional cpu core for gaming performance.

I think you may need to have some GPU reserve if you want full multitasks, Other game pause in background or webcam, picture in picture features etc..

I betting PS4 also will have to reserve their GPU for other things too.

 

[Spongebob]

I've got a crazy prediction: Multiplats are nearly identical in most cases, just like this generation, because third-parties won't take the time to optimize them.

How many times does this have to be explained...

This gen the 360 and PS3 were very different architecturally. In this coming gen PS4 and Xbone are very similar architecturally. It's going to be relatively trivial for devs to turn up the AA and a few effects for PS4 versions.

 

[Chobel]

If that's the case then why are 80% or more of multiplatform games better looking on Xbox 360 then?

Because X360 GPU was better and had more RAM, to improve PS3 graphics Devs had to use CELL which was hard, so not everybody did it.

 

[goonergaz]

X360 is easier to get good results from. Has no bearing on the drivers or graphics interfaces used.

yup, and next gen will see a clearly more powerful machine also easier to program for...I expect the face-offs to be clearly in PS4 favor but much like this gen (livable differences 99% of the time)

 

[PanicFreak]

PS4 exclusives will probably look much better than Xbone exclusives, especially first party, similar to current gen. Multiplats will probably look similar.

This

 

[GrizzledGrump]

My prediction:

With the cost of game development as it is, I think the majority of third parties are going to pick a target and port it across PC, XONE and PS4.

If you really want to see your favorite box shine, it will be the first party talent, mainly because they're working on an exclusive platform and they will be given an "incentive" to make the box shine.

 

[cyberheater]

X360 is easier to get good results from. Has no bearing on the drivers or graphics interfaces used.

In this case you don't know what you're talking about. I've programmed in Direct3D (DirectX) and OpenGL. They both can be pretty lean and both have there advantages.

 

[goonergaz]

It's going to be relatively trivial for devs to turn up the AA and a few effects for PS4 versions.

indeed, getting it running nice on xbone then add some gloss on PS4

 

[Plinko]

How many times does this have to be explained...

This gen the 360 and PS3 were very different architecturally. In this coming gen PS4 and Xbone are very similar architecturally. It's going to be relatively trivial for devs to turn up the AA and a few effects for PS4 versions.

I've heard the explanation 100 times on this board.

I'll believe it when I see it. When third parties are rushing to get a game out the door, I really, really doubt the majority of them are going to turn up the AA and a few effects.

 

[iceatcs]

I've got a crazy prediction: Multiplats are nearly identical in most cases, just like this generation, because third-parties won't take the time to optimize them.

I suspect those graphics filters, such as AA, won't take too long to optimise.

If we are talking about adding more things like soldiers, bush or whatever, it might taking longer to tweak because it seem manual to add or remove.

 

[FranXico]

If that's the case then why are 80% or more of multiplatform games better looking on Xbox 360 then?

Because Cell.

 

[goonergaz]

In this case you don't know what you're talking about. I've programmed in Direct3D (DirectX) and OpenGL. They both can be pretty lean and both have there advantages.

but the main problem was hardware setup (2 memory pools and cell) - I think that's his point

 

[IN&OUT]

If that's the case then why are 80% or more of multiplatform games better looking on Xbox 360 then?

looks like this needs to be explained for the 187646328 time:

X360 achieved better multiplatform performance although it was slightly less powerful than PS3 because it was much easier to develop for + the better memory setup than PS3. PS3 in the other hand had more raw power but it was such a headache to extract this extra power.

PS4/X1 share almost the same structure BUT PS4 has more of everything (More shaders, more ROPs, more CU cores) + a much better memory setup 2.5 the bandwidth . also PS4 has a true unified memory system that makes developing for the platform even easier than X1 or 360.

 

[sleepykyo]

Aren't they going to end up fairly similar?

Carmack seems to think they're about the same. And the x1 is simply too important to publishers for stuff like Bayonetta or Skyrim to happen. I'd still be more wary of defective PS4 software than X1 software due to the PS3 era and Ubisoft's continuation of that era with the awful AC4 showing.

 

[goonergaz]

I've heard the explanation 100 times on this board.

I'll believe it when I see it. When third parties are rushing to get a game out the door, I really, really doubt the majority of them are going to turn up the AA and a few effects.

did you forget most of the effects are already there for PC and they will be removing them to shoe-horn the game onto xbone?

 

[Spongebob]

Aren't they going to end up fairly similar?

Carmack seems to think they're about the same. And the x1 is simply too important to publishers for stuff like Bayonetta or Skyrim to happen. I'd still be more wary of defective PS4 software than X1 software due to the PS3 era and Ubisoft's continuation of that era with the awful AC4 showing.

You can't be serious.

I've heard the explanation 100 times on this board.

I'll believe it when I see it. When third parties are rushing to get a game out the door, I really, really doubt the majority of them are going to turn up the AA and a few effects.

lol

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Can the average human tell the difference between locked 30fps and locked 30 fps? Or 47 and 54 fps? I doubt it.

It still means a lot for one console to claim superiority over another in regards to multiplatform games. Even if it's just an "on paper" superiority that in the real world most people wouldn't be able to tell apart to begin with, at least to the uninformed gamer.

A lot of the multiplatform games looked better on 360 than on ps3. Even if marginally. But the problem was that people caught wind that one version was better than the other. It doesn't matter by how much - only that it was 'better.' You have multiple websites doing comparisons, which hits multiple forums with hardcore gamers, these hardcore gamer than even if casually pass on that information to their non-hardcore gamer friends, and soon it becomes video game store idle chatter, "hey man, I heard Super Awesome Shooter X game runs better on the 360 version." "really?" "yeah, really - a friend who's really into this shit told me."

It literally became common knowledge and automatic assumption to assume the 360 version of multiplatform games looked better than the ps3 versions, even later down the life cycle when the parity was much less, and at times favored the ps3 version (LA Noire). That's a very powerful advantage for a console, because nobody wants an inferior product on consoles. Even if it's just a matter of 720p 30 versus 720p 45.

 

[goonergaz]

Aren't they going to end up fairly similar?

Carmack seems to think they're about the same. And the x1 is simply too important to publishers for stuff like Bayonetta or Skyrim to happen. I'd still be more wary of defective PS4 software than X1 software due to the PS3 era and Ubisoft's continuation of that era with the awful AC4 showing.

he said they were architecturally the same and very close in performance (which is true - DF said games were ~20% more frames so fairly close compared to 50%)

 

[SwiftDeath]

Thanks.

I don't understand why MS would go through the loops of slightly increasing GPU clock speed if they are going to squander 10% for the OS. At this point. I don't believe that this figure of 10% is true anymore. Certainly not while the game is full screen.

I also think that to gain an advantage (or remain in shouting distance of parity). It would make sense to free up an additional cpu core for gaming performance.

I imagine the 10% figure is quite similar to the PS4 Ram allotment numbers

It is future-proofing to some extent or there is some buffer built-in

I expect it will be less than 10% reserved at some future point personally

Still dislike the idea but I guess some of the OS features are okay

 

[cyberheater]

but the main problem was hardware setup (2 memory pools and cell) - I think that's his point

Hiya mate.

He was trying to say that DirectX was inherently less efficient then OpenGL. That's simply not the case.

 

[IcyEyes]

I love the predictions thread !

No doubt, PS4 is more powerful than the X1, so I can't wait to see what will happen with the 3rd party games and what the devs/publisher will choose do to...

 

[Insane Metal]

My opinion is that if devs want, the multiplats will be identical on both consoles. It will be up to them. It might happen something along the lines of what happens on PCs (some games being optimized to one specific hardware).

 

[goonergaz]

Hiya mate.

He was trying to say that DirectX was inherently less efficient then OpenGL. That's simply not the case.

hiya mate

oh right, sorry - got a mate at work that recons DX will mean XB>PS4 lol don't think PS4 will be that bad thins gen!!

 

[cyberheater]

looks like this needs to be explained for the 187646328 time:

X360 achieved better multiplatform performance although it was slightly less powerful than PS3 because it was much easier to develop for + the better memory setup than PS3. PS3 in the other hand had more raw power but it was such a headache to extract this extra power..

I agree but I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that DirectX is not less efficient then OpenGL.

 

[Plinko]

did you forget most of the effects are already there for PC and they will be removing them to shoe-horn the game onto xbone?

lol

Guess we'll see. Will be fun to look back on this thread a year from now to see who's right.

 

[poopninjamvc3mk]

I'm guessing the ports will be almost equal with a few differences here and there between the system right out the gate.

It won't be like this gen though where for the first couple years PS3 got the short end of the stick until like late08-early 09 that they starting getting decent ports with only minor differences.

 

[Spongebob]

Someone should do some tests where they have a 7770 and a 7850 and mess with the settings for games until both cards have the games running fairly consistently at 30fps (or 60fps) and compare the visuals.

 

[Piggus]

Here is a curveball... I predict some MPs will look and/or run better on X1 due to the drivers and other software things.

Keep dreaming.

Devs have the same opportunity to "code to the metal" on PS4. Drivers? Again, the PS4 has apparently had very good APIs for some time. Decent drivers do not suddenly make up for the lower specced GPU, low memory bandwidth and the complexity of effectively programming logic for the eSRAM. The APIs devs use for PS4 games would have to be UTTER SHIT (which we know they aren't) for multiplatform games to have any kind of advantage. A developer would have to fuck up pretty badly (or be paid a lot of money) to somehow get less performance out a more powerful system based on essentially the same architecture. That's like a game running better on a Radeon 7770 than a 7850. Not gonna happen.

 

[DagnastyEp]

XBO version

Vs.

PS4 version

That 40% difference will show a lot more than the 5% difference this gen showed in multiplatform games. I can't believe UbiSoft released that XBO version looking the way it did. lol

j/k

Even though PS4 has better specs, and will be getting an hour of exclusive content, the Xbox one might be the best version of the game. Watch_Dogs producer Dominic Guay has said that the Xbox one version of the game will have a more more dynamic world compared to the versions on other platforms:
http://www.gamingtarget.com/article.php?artid=13270

For example, we’re able to simulate the water in full 3D, if you go on a boat the waves that form will affect other boats. We’re also able to spend more time giving brains to the other people on the streets so that they can basically be smarter, and there can be more of them. It’s what I call dynamism; basically, the way the city reacts to you, we are able to push further on the Xbox One.

 

[cyberheater]

hiya mate

oh right, sorry - got a mate at work that recons DX will mean XB>PS4 lol don't think PS4 will be that bad thins gen!!

There is no inherent advantage of one over the other.

 

[goonergaz]

Guess we'll see. Will be fun to look back on this thread a year from now to see who's right.

??

I'm serious, top PCs will have more effects than the consoles...especially after a year or so

 

[goonergaz]

There is no inherent advantage of one over the other.

yeah, I know that...you know that...but Mr MS specs at work...

 

[IN&OUT]

I agree but I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that DirectX is not less efficient then OpenGL.

it all about allowing more low level access to the hardware, seems like OpenGL is more flexible than DirectX in this area.

 

[cyberheater]

it all about allowing more low level access to the hardware, seems like OpenGL is more flexible than DirectX in this area.

It really isn't.

 

[Spongebob]

Even though PS4 has better specs, and will be getting an hour of exclusive content, the Xbox one might be the best version of the game. Watch_Dogs producer Dominic Guay has said that the Xbox one version of the game will have a more more dynamic world compared to the versions on other platforms:
http://www.gamingtarget.com/article.php?artid=13270

LOL

We've had a thread for this on GAF before, he was referring to the Xbone version versus the current-gen versions.

 

[Can Crusher]

If that's the case then why are 80% or more of multiplatform games better looking on Xbox 360 then?

More ram and unified memory, the gpu is better and the architectural differences benefited the development environment on the 360.

It's not rocket science, we don't need to get sherlock holmes on the phone so we can understand the context.

 

[mrklaw]

but the main problem was hardware setup (2 memory pools and cell) - I think that's his point

Yes

Hiya mate.

He was trying to say that DirectX was inherently less efficient then OpenGL. That's simply not the case.

I may have badly worded that. I meant that the implementations that AMD/NVidia have shouldn't be used as an argument for how the Xbox will suddenly be better than Ps4 as in the OP.

Sony's libraries are not heavy and bloated, so there is simply not the fat there that MS could cut out to bridge that gap in the way described in the OP