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[Alebrije]

Developer choice? Why would a developer choose to have it on the XB1 version and not on the PS4 version?

And saying we want to know why there are quite a few AAA games that don't have AF on PS4 but do on XB1 is not denying that there aren't a lot that DO have it. It's just weird enough that there ought to be a reason for it.

Do not know but PS4 is fully capable of do it , so we just few answers :

A) developers were lazy or choose not use it
B) it is hard to implement on Ps4
C) Microsoft influence ( foil hat theory)

So , since most of games uses it and few of them not the most obvious answer is A because if it were hard to implement on Ps4 most of games released did not have AF and not just few.

 

[Dictator93]

Well, it's a bit tricky as RSX could still access XDR.

At a cost that was really heavy. 7800 GT had much higher bandwidth.

 

[mejin]

Well, I'd like to see an explanation from Dying Light's and Evolve's developers.

 

[Freeman]

Does any PS4 exclusive has the same issue?

 

[miDnIghtEr20C]

dont take it personally some of us just want to know why.

LMAO that you even had to write that. Ha ha ha..


On topic with OP.. I never notice these little differences until threads like this.. where they still pause and have pics side by side. While in motion I don't notice this stuff.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I think the reason why people are taking the piss out of the thread topic is because the OP is apparently looking to Sony for answers when in reality the individual devs who are the ones who have to answer for their choices on the AF front. There are many more games that have a similar level AF on PS4 as XB1 or higher(as shown earlier in the thread) than don't have it.

All i know is that the ICE team devs have already stated its not a hardware issue or an SDK issue and things are working normally.

Remember, last gen there were no AF solutions in place at all, and 99% of games had hardly any AF at all if it was even there.

It may be something MS has in their SDK for Xbox One this gen that Sony never implemented because they never had to in the past, thus they are not the ones who are out of boundary, but MS for going that extra mile to secure AF in the SDK automatically. Something like that.

Again, i don't know if its the SDK, but it seems to be related to individual devs having to implement it versus it being an automatic process on XB1, thus it still coming down to being an individual dev issue.

 

[GutZ31]

Do not know but PS4 is fully capable of do it , so we just few answers :

A) developers were lazy or choose not use it
B) it is hard to implement on Ps4
C) Microsoft influence ( foil hat theory)

So , since most of games uses it and few of them not the most obvious answer is A because if it were hard to implement on Ps4 most of games released did not have AF and not just few.

If it means lower resolution, or a sharp drop in frame rate, AF is a small price to pay in a lot of these cases.
Would they have been better with AF? Better looking, but performance wise, they may have been hit rather hard.

Optimization can take a while to get a game running smoothly without all the effects.
Its common practice to leave effects out if it means added performance.

Does any PS4 exclusive has the same issue?

Can't think of any, but I know there are instances of the reverse, like Tomb Raider on PS4 vs XBox One.

 

[GutZ31]

double post shame...

 

[Saint of Killers]

I came for AF. Stayed for the hi-larious Molyneux bum pain.

 

[CozMick]

Going back through digital foundry's history of next gen is an eye opener..

All but the 7 games mentioned in favour of xbox one, including these 6 for PS4, have the same amount of AF.

Pro Evolution 2015.
Shadow Warrior
Tomb Raider: DF
Alien Isolation using 16x
Sniper Elite 3
Dragon Age Inquistion (although the wording is kinda strange, do they blame the resolution of the image?)

All the games featured in their articles either have no mention of texture filtering or are exactly the same with the former happening more often.

Quite an insight.

 

[Dictator93]

gif of TR

That gif is too low quality, not showing an ideal scenario to demonstrate AF differences, as well as appearing to show an asset difference and not an AF difference (the wave foam).

 

[BibiMaghoo]

ooops. This post went wrong.

 

[AlphaDump]

http://gamingbolt.com/ps4-ice-team-...16xaf-new-asm-for-faster-offline-asset-baking

Cort Stratton, a senior programmer on Sony’s ICE Team has revealed a few interesting tid-bits about the PlayStation 4’s graphics capabilities. First of all he revealed that the PlayStation 4 has no issues in supporting 16 X Anisotropic Filtering, a method by which in game textures look great even when viewed at an angle. But certain games like Thief use the less impressive Trilinear filtering which led some users to raises questions whether the PS4’s GPU is capable of supporting 16 X AF.
Cort stated that there are no hardware issues restricting 16 X AF that he is aware of. “No hardware/SDK issues that I’m aware of. Sounds like a question for the developer.”

sounds like this is something that needs to be looked into....

 

[Cornbread78]

sounds like this is something that needs to be looked into....

Tinfoil hat time, we're the devs tipped to under AF the PS4 versions? Lol


Really though, have we ever gotten a response from a dev when questioned about it? Would love to see a technical response. Start tweeting those 7 devs now..

 

[mangochutney]

Does any PS4 exclusive has the same issue?

DRIVECLUB has quite poor filtering. I've no idea how you can decipher if it has none, 4x, 8x or whatever - but regardless it isn't too great.

 

[CozMick]

sounds like this is something that needs to be looked into....

Isn't this now an open and shut case?

A member of ICE team denies any problems with the sdk. What else is there to know besides "lazy devs"?

 

[AlStrong]

At a cost that was really heavy. 7800 GT had much higher bandwidth.

Indeed.

 

[GutZ31]

That gif is too low quality, not showing an ideal scenario to demonstrate AF differences, as well as appearing to show an asset difference and not an AF difference (the wave foam).

Look at the plane wreck... don't need to look anywhere else. All the angles you need are there.

To be fair though, I think that particular part is a cut scene(?). If it is, that would mean its lower res on the Xbox One, and would look worse anyway.

 

[Vesper73]

Look at literally any other face-off except the games from the OP to see identical AF levels between platforms.

Here's the most recent face-offs:
BF:Hardline beta

The Crew

Dragon Age: Inquisition

Far Cry 4

GTAV

AC Unity

COD Advanced Warfare

Well I guess that about wraps it up.

 

[Freeman]

DRIVECLUB has quite poor filtering. I've no idea how you can decipher if it has none, 4x, 8x or whatever - but regardless it isn't too great.

Interesting, I'd really like to know the reason for this.

 

[Jawbreaker]

That gif is too low quality, not showing an ideal scenario to demonstrate AF differences, as well as appearing to show an asset difference and not an AF difference (the wave foam).

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...b-raider-definitive-edition-next-gen-face-off

For the most part the main graphical bells and whistles are lavished equally across both consoles, although intriguingly there are a few areas that do see Xbox One cutbacks. As demonstrated in our head-to-head video below (and in our vast Tomb Raider comparison gallery), alpha-based effects in certain areas give the appearance of rendering at half resolution - though other examples do look much cleaner. We also see a lower-quality depth of field in cut-scenes, and reduced levels of anisotropic filtering on artwork during gameplay. Curiously, there are also a few lower-resolution textures in places on Xbox One, but this seems to be down to a bug (perhaps on level of detail transitions) as opposed to a conscious downgrade.

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

That quote from the ICE team guy doesn't really answer the question though. "lazy devs" may be a basically true answer but the fact remains that some games have it on Xbox One, but not on PS4.

So if "lazy devs" is a partial answer, then the question becomes why is it more work to implement on the PS4 as opposed to the Xbox One? There's got to be some limiting factor, or some other reason.

 

[Dictator93]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...b-raider-definitive-edition-next-gen-face-off

I do not doubt that DF stated that, they did, but are their screen of this showing the ideal scenario? I cannot find any.

Not to say DF is bad, but they have made mistakes before and I am trying to just find the evidence myself.

 

[CozMick]

That quote from the ICE team guy doesn't really answer the question though. "lazy devs" may be a basically true answer but the fact remains that some games have it on Xbox One, but not on PS4.

So if "lazy devs" is a partial answer, then the question becomes why is it more work to implement on the PS4 as opposed to the Xbox One? There's got to be some limiting factor right?

Maybe the sdk on xbox one defaults at 4-8x?

 

[Bl@de]

It's weird considering the cost. 16xAF vs. Trilinear 0xAF has an performance hit of roughly 5% on a GTX580. Only in some cases of 16xHQ AF it's higher (don't know why but I had benchmarks somewhere). Must be a safety measure from some devs so there are less fps drops. At least it seems to work in most games so it's not a hardware problem.

 

[Jawbreaker]

I'm on mobile, but I'm pretty damn sure Sniper Elite 3 actually had better AF on PS4 than on the Bone. It was in the DF faceoff.

It did.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-sniper-elite-3-face-off

Certain texture assets are blurrier on Xbox One - which Rebellion says is down to lower anisotropic filtering, not lower quality assets...

 

[Backfoggen]

People seem to be confused about the purpose of this thread. We want to know why it happened in those cases posted in the OP and if it keeps happening. This isn't an attack on your console of choice.

 

[Pestilence11]

If enough people start asking different developers on Twitter, I'm sure we'll get some sort of answer.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

People seem to be confused about the purpose of this thread. We want to know why it happened in those cases posted in the OP and if it keeps happening. This isn't an attack on your console of choice.

Great, but obviously this is not a Sony issue. This is a developer issue. What console of choice championing do you see when everyone has literally posted receipts of other games that don't have it and ICE programmers already proving that it wasn't a system issue?

I've been following this thread and keep seeing this line passed around as if y'all are being ignorant to the obvious answer.

 

[GutZ31]

I do not doubt that DF stated that, they did, but are their screen of this showing the ideal scenario? I cannot find any.

Not to say DF is bad, but they have made mistakes before and I am trying to just find the evidence myself.

Why is it so hard to believe that its up to the developers to opt in for visual effects, regardless of console?

I admit, I should have found the article to backup the gif, but what gives?
The data is there, look up some videos yourself if you don't want to trust "us".

Every dev team has to juggle the pros and cons of visual effect efforts. If the game will suffer somehow because of an effect, they will turn it down, or off completely to save bandwidth to make sure data is moving without bottlenecking.

Ports are a good reason for some of these kinds of issues, but not limited to them.
What made these issues? Only the people who made the games can say.

 

[Jawbreaker]

I do not doubt that DF stated that, they did, but are their screen of this showing the ideal scenario? I cannot find any.

Not to say DF is bad, but they have made mistakes before and I am trying to just find the evidence myself.

Gotcha. Yeah, it'd be nice to have high quality screens showing the two side by side in areas where it can be easily determined.

 

[lefantome]

Not sure why it's happening but I hope we get rid ot it asap.

It's very annoying

 

[Jawbreaker]

If enough people start asking different developers on Twitter, I'm sure we'll get some sort of answer.

I believe that would be the better approach as we've been told by an ICE member that it's not an issue on their end and that it was up to the developers. If we can get a couple of devs to comment and they have similar reasons, it'll be easier to deduce what's going on.

 

[Vinc]

The Order 1886 has incredible AF. Other devs are probably just lazy. Lazy is the middle name of this gen, after all.

Really now?

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I'm so glad I play games with a controller and not a microscope.

I really miss the old times ...

It does need sorting out though for those that like to look that closely.

 

[eot]

Why is it so hard to believe that its up to the developers to opt in for visual effects, regardless of console?

He didn't say it was. The point was only that you posted a gif that didn't show off what you implied it was showing off.

 

[pixlexic]

Going back through digital foundry's history of next gen is an eye opener..

All but the 7 games mentioned in favour of xbox one, including these 6 for PS4, have the same amount of AF.

Pro Evolution 2015.
Shadow Warrior
Tomb Raider: DF
Alien Isolation using 16x
Sniper Elite 3
Dragon Age Inquistion (although the wording is kinda strange, do they blame the resolution of the image?)

All the games featured in their articles either have no mention of texture filtering or are exactly the same with the former happening more often.

Quite an insight.

i already answered you about this.

When they are the same we don't know if they are both good or both bad. It is only when they are different do we know that one is better than the other.

Like FarCry4 clearly has better overall texture resolution on PS4 than XBONE. but AC unity is the same.

That doesn't mean AC unity uses the best textures it can on both platforms. it just means they at least went with the lowest common denominator.

the games being the same doesn't really mean anything.

 

[pixlexic]

Well I guess that about wraps it up.

not at all. see my post above.

 

[GutZ31]

I believe that would be the better approach as we've been told by an ICE member that it's not an issue on their end and that it was up to the developers. If we can get a couple of devs to comment and they have similar reasons, it'll be easier to deduce what's going on.

Probably the only approach that makes sense.

I find lack of AF a small trifle compared to frame rates, but it is still something to question.

 

[CozMick]

i already answered you about this.



the games being the same doesn't really mean anything.

But we do agree that almost the same amount of confirmed games have better AF on PS4?

 

[Pop]

The Order 1886 has incredible AF. Other devs are probably just lazy. Lazy is the middle name of this gen, after all.

Look at literally any other face-off except the games from the OP to see identical AF levels between platforms.

Here's the most recent face-offs:
BF:Hardline beta

The Crew

Dragon Age: Inquisition

Far Cry 4

GTAV

AC Unity

COD Advanced Warfare

So this about solves it.

Go ask the devs of those games why.

 

[AlphaDump]

That quote from the ICE team guy doesn't really answer the question though. "lazy devs" may be a basically true answer but the fact remains that some games have it on Xbox One, but not on PS4.

So if "lazy devs" is a partial answer, then the question becomes why is it more work to implement on the PS4 as opposed to the Xbox One? There's got to be some limiting factor, or some other reason.

either the ICE guy is lying, it is a developer oversight, or there is a contractual agreement.

 

[mrklaw]

DRIVECLUB has quite poor filtering. I've no idea how you can decipher if it has none, 4x, 8x or whatever - but regardless it isn't too great.

Forza horizon 2 wasn't that great either - maybe it is more challenging when moving through a world at high speed like in a racing game?

 

[Jux]

I really wish the idea that AF has no performance impact would die because it DOES have an effect on performance.
The main ressource used by AF is texture bandwith. AF works by doing many more sampling than trilinear filtering so that's more bandwith and potential cache thrashing for bigger textures.
When a shader samples a texture, there is a latency before the shader can actually use the result. To avoid having the GPU doing nothing while waiting for a texture sample, shader compilers will fill the gap with arithmetic operations from independant code branches if there are any available.
What it means is that if there is no arithmetic operations to be processed in between texture samples, the GPU will have to wait for them. That's what you would call being "texture bound". In these cases, if you add more samples (like AF does), GPU time will increase.

What people have to understand is that this is highly engine/shader dependant. In an engine where most shaders are ALU bound, adding more texture samples won't impact performance at all because there will always be stuff to do during the wait, but in the case where you are texture bound, it will.
Another thing to note is that PC shader compilers are pretty shitty, resulting in much less ALU optimization, so that's also more arithmetic operations to hide latency with.

That being said, there is nothing magic with implementing AF on PS4. It's only a flag to setup on the samplers like on DirectX. So that's only a dev's decision/mistake if it's missing in a game.

 

[Kayant]

the games being the same doesn't really mean anything.

Which basically means the "trend" you speak of doesn't exactly exist.

 

[Duxxy3]

Is there any Xbox one title without any AF? Maybe the above is right, may there's a minimum default.

 

[7DollarHagane]

This would require someone with access to the people who have the answers knowing what AF is.

Where we are now the people who have access think you need a 60 inch tv to see 1080p so it'll be another few years.

 

[Mr Ed]

Dev 1: "hey hows our game running on Pc?"
Dev 2 : "It runs like a dream!"
Dev 1: "Xbox One version?"
Dev 2 : "Runs fine, had to go to 900p to hit the target though".
Dev 1: "They are used to that, so thats fine. And the Ps4 version?"
Dev 2: "Almost hitting the target at 1080p. But not quite."
Dev 1: "Drop it to 900p?"
Dev 2: "Nah that would be overkill."
Dev 1: "Lower or drop AF?"
Dev 2: "You know what? That might actually give us the little bit of room we needed."
Dev 1: "Awesome! Turn it off and ship it! Let grab a beer."
Dev 2: "Pub time! You're buying!"

 

[bj00rn_]

Well, that makes sense. Lack of AF is terrible. I think I've had it at forced 16xAF in the driver since I picked up a Radeon 9700 in 2003.

That's what I always assumed, and still think is the most likely. But they really should have fixed a tool issue by now.

But that doesn't explain why poor filtering is also an issue in Driveclub?

 

[Orayn]

either the ICE guy is lying, it is a developer oversight, or there is a contractual agreement.

While I do find the lack of AF in certain games confusing, please don't start that shit.

Unless you're talking about a more general agreement about how much they're allowed to say regarding the PS4 SDK.