PS5 Die Shot has been revealed

SenjutsuSage said:
I'm sorry your feelings are hurt, but the PS5 is a less advanced console than the Xbox Series X based on the facts as we have them. It, to me, has no meaningful advantage outside of the faster SSD. Boost clock? plz. Take it how you want, but Sony has explained what kind of console they built, and Microsoft has done the same.

If you think the early games are evidence that I'm wrong, then explain the much hyped PS5 SSD not doing at all what it was claimed to in those same early titles that are shared between both? You'll say that Sony's devs will use the tech better right? Guess what? You would be correct. I've seen examples of that! Same goes for Microsoft's devs, such as what Coalition is doing on the system early on. If the PS5 SSD so far isn't smoking Series X's like it was suppose to, and that "takes time" then certainly Xbox Series X's more advanced GPU with newer features should also reasonably get some time too. Fair? Get mad and take it however you want, if the PS5 were the one with Series X's specs and Xbox had the PS5 specs, not a single person in here would be claiming that the Xbox is more advanced and we all know it.
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Don't call them facts, it's more advanced in your opinion. 45 pages in and you still have no clue what you're talking about.
 
DJ12 said:
You sir, really have no clue what you're talking about. Rumour had it, Sony and AMD basically collaborated on RDNA from the start. Kind of backed up by this quote from Cerny.

"After confirming that Sony's PS5 will house "a custom AMD GPU based on their RDNA 2 technology," Cerny added, "if you see a similar discrete GPU available as a PC card at roughly the same time as we release our console, that means our collaboration with AMD succeeded in producing technology useful in both worlds. It doesn't mean that we at Sony simply incorporated the PC part into our console.

Hmm, whats coming out soon? Oh yeah, a 40 CU high clocked AMD desktop part....
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Eh let's see what sony custom works there are in 6700?

Seems kinda straight forward there will be a 67xxx series. In fact, the 6800 do not seem to have anything resembling the cache scrubbers and GE?
 
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Panajev2001a said:
Again, can you appreciate one HW without shitting on the other? Are you seriously trying to just stir up cheap console warring / fishing for hit takes?
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No not like this.
Im just setting down my foot with all the info coming out.

It was more a informed gut feel reply to this earlier opinion, which imo is on loose footings.
The PS5 has a more intelligently and gracefully designed chip. It's not just brute power and teraflops and other marketing names that are already dazzling in the eyes. Not tired of fighting, buddy? The games themselves will demonstrate clearly which console offers the most interesting hardware solution. After all, it was created for games. From all that marketing list of features that makes you wet, only SFS is really interesting and unlike the PS5, which lacks it, because it allows to reduce the footprint memory and this is really cool. And finally, you are also mistaken about the lack of acceleration of ML inference in PS5. This is it, take it or leave it. If you need to warring, go on.
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longdi said:
No not like this.
Im just setting down my foot with all the info coming out.

It was more a informed gut feel reply to this earlier opinion, which imo is on loose footings.
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Let's look at real information - Road to PS5, MS Hotchips presentation and benchmarks.

PS5: RDNA2 based chip with customisations to GE (hardware or only software?) and I/O. Culling and shader optimisation is customised rather than AMD's RDNA2 off-the-shelf solutions. Lower CU count. Higher frequencies.
XSX: RDNA2 based with AMD RDNA2 solutions for culling and shader optimisation (mesh and VRS). Some I/O customisation but more reliant on the software based Velocity Architecture. Higher CU count and lower frequencies. Memory bandwidth both higher and lower (split bandwidth) than PS5. APU also designed to serve as server blade APU.

Benchmarks: Parity so far with minor edge to PS5.

That is the real information we have. When you read the Xbox crowd's comments in this thread that is not really apparent.
 
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Obviously, Microsoft wants to keep Xbox as close to the PC standard DX implementation as possible. Which is a good for development between platforms, as the Series X is closer to a PC than ever and essentially an extension of that space. The sub rdna2 monikers thrown around for either box is fanboy dick measuring at best.
 
FatKingBallman said:
Cerny doesn't need to tell you shit if there are patents, which is enough.

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PS5 GPU clock isn't boosted. It is capped at 2.23 Ghz. Boost clock you say. So, you straight up implied that PS5 is a 9 TF console.

No wonder why you defending Blueisviolet. Shit, man!
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How that PS5 cooling patent work out? Remember that special heatsink? Patents don't mean a damn thing if it isn't proven to be in the silicon. Next.
 
Elog said:
Let's look at real information - Road to PS5, MS Hotchips presentation and benchmarks.

PS5: RDNA2 based chip with customisations to GE (hardware or only software?) and I/O. Culling and shader optimisation is customised rather than AMD's RDNA2 off-the-shelf solutions. Lower CU count. Higher frequencies.
XSX: RDNA2 based with AMD RDNA2 solutions for culling and shader optimisation (mesh and VRS). Some I/O customisation but more reliant on the software based Velocity Architecture. Higher CU count and lower frequencies. Memory bandwidth both higher and lower (split bandwidth) than PS5. APU also designed to serve as server blade APU.

Benchmarks: Parity so far with minor edge to PS5.

That is the real information we have. When you read the Xbox crowd's comments in this thread that is not really apparent.
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Minor edge to PS5? Hardly my friend. Games with glaring issues on Xbox Series X have all been patched to fix obvious bugs/issues, same will happen for any others. Many titles seem more or less equal. Show me a single title on either console released so far where the PS5 has the level of advantage over the Series X as the Series X holds over the PS5 in Hitman 3? There isn't one. And guess what? You'll never see one because the Series X is the clearly more powerful console and more games will eventually show it. The best you can hope for is parity or minor issues that eventually get patched for Series X bringing it in line with the PS5 version.
 
oldergamer said:
Who the hell says you can "see" vrs in that shot. You have no idea that what you see has any direct relationship to vrs. Some of you keep going back to the well on that stupid argument without any evidence to back it up.
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Not my problem that you have no idea what vrs does pal.
 
Garani said:
You keep on talking about stuff that you know nothing about, making statements while you didn't even work on the PS5. You are simply slandering and spreading rumors to win an argument that, at the end of the day, boils down to: does it run the games?

Short answer: yes, the PS5 runs games with stable and high frame rate, with more details than the competition and when code is decently written, it can push RT at 60FPS. Meanwhile, on the other side of the fence, we have Craig.

You should invest your energy in supporting and pushing MS' developers to provide quality products, because better games for the XSX mean a good challenge for the PS5. Instead you are wasting our time, running around and screaming nonsense, trying to win an argument that isn't even there. Move on and play games on your preferred plastic toy.
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You're busy stating the obvious, both consoles run games great. We are discussing the implications for the future of these consoles and what might be capable of more from a pure hardware capability standpoint. Some of you guys keep making the mistake of assuming I'm the same as some of the rest of you who really take this stuff personal and avoid games. I support, buy and own everything, right down to a high end PC, switch etc. I may have my favorite, but I make sure to get everything.

I'm just talking about the hardware. I don't doubt it's going to have amazing games. I've actually bought 4-5 of these things up to now, not all for me obviously.

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3liteDragon said:
Don't call them facts, it's more advanced in your opinion. 45 pages in and you still have no clue what you're talking about.
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Wait a minute, was it me who spent months thinking the PS5 was RDNA 3, had unified L3 cache CPU like Zen 3 and Infinity Cache? Let's not try to shift the real reason this thread blew up. It's because you guys were made to look like fools so some dudes could laugh at it up as they upped their views, likes and subscribers. Someone in this thread definitely doesn't know what they're talking about, but it's surely not the guys who could smell the bs from a mile and knew you all were being taken for a ride by RGT and Moores law.
 
alabtrosMyster said:
Wait until Phil deliver the performance we shall see, until then the conversation we should have is analytical and it explains what we know so far (I.E. they perform pretty close to one another, and one did it one way, the other company attained its goals in a different manner).

The day we see AI powered games (assuming this is not all cloud level BS)... and it breaks the PS5 all this is non sense.
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Series X won't need ML to outperform PS5 in an obvious way. ML actually being viable and as useful as DLSS will only make it a bloodbath.
 
Some folks have bitten the bait massively. Dude literally told you pages back he doesn't care whether he's right or wrong, and what you may think or how he's perceived. No matter what you say or what you prove... it won't change a thing. Piling on him is the same exercise as with VFX, Ricky and others. There is no point other than thread derails - effective in effect. If you're letting him bother you with his words, you got a bigger problem yourself.
 
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StreetsofBeige said:
Hold onto your hats console warrioring fans.

We've reached patch size comparisons.
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If we take Oodle Kraken in consideration (if it's in use, I have my doubts) then it's relevant discussion: lower space occupation is a definite important point, given that space is a premium comodity.

SenjutsuSage said:
Minor edge to PS5? Hardly my friend. Games with glaring issues on Xbox Series X have all been patched to fix obvious bugs/issues, same will happen for any others. Many titles seem more or less equal. Show me a single title on either console released so far where the PS5 has the level of advantage over the Series X as the Series X holds over the PS5 in Hitman 3? There isn't one. And guess what? You'll never see one because the Series X is the clearly more powerful console and more games will eventually show it. The best you can hope for is parity or minor issues that eventually get patched for Series X bringing it in line with the PS5 version.
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SenjutsuSage said:
You're busy stating the obvious, both consoles run games great. We are discussing the implications for the future of these consoles and what might be capable of more from a pure hardware capability standpoint. Some of you guys keep making the mistake of assuming I'm the same as some of the rest of you who really take this stuff personal and avoid games. I support, buy and own everything, right down to a high end PC, switch etc. I may have my favorite, but I make sure to get everything.

I'm just talking about the hardware. I don't doubt it's going to have amazing games. I've actually bought 4-5 of these things up to now, not all for me obviously.

0SvbqAx.jpg
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SenjutsuSage said:
Wait a minute, was it me who spent months thinking the PS5 was RDNA 3, had unified L3 cache CPU like Zen 3 and Infinity Cache? Let's not try to shift the real reason this thread blew up. It's because you guys were made to look like fools so some dudes could laugh at it up as they upped their views, likes and subscribers. Someone in this thread definitely doesn't know what they're talking about, but it's surely not the guys who could smell the bs from a mile and knew you all were being taken for a ride by RGT and Moores law.
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SenjutsuSage said:
Series X won't need ML to outperform PS5 in an obvious way. ML actually being viable and as useful as DLSS will only make it a bloodbath.
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And we are back to console warring based on nothing: there is no indication that you work in any IT related function, let alone building CHIPs for consoles, and you speak as yours are the only truths known to mankind. The wish list is so long that it's embarrassing: VRR, VRS, Mesh Shading, ML, the goal post keeps on moving forward, but in the end it's still the same tune: games are pretty much on par, with a minuscule advantage for the PS5. You say that XSX versions have bugs? Based on what? On the fact that you are not getting your expected results? Pretty self centered.

No one, other than youtubers with need for views, talked about BS like RDNA3. We had an interest if there was or not IC, and it's now clear that it's a feature missing from both consoles. You have taken rumors, that were fuelled by a clear parity, and you took some kind of personal offence. Well, in the end it's clear that a 10TF machine is more powerful than a 12TF one, or is it? Maybe TF isn't the correct metric for these consoles, just like Cerny said, and in the end I don't even care if it ends up with the XSX on top, just as long as I have the games that I care for with the quality that has always been delivered.

Keep your console warring to yourself: we had a die shot, we got a lot of answers and even more questions. Point is that you don't have the faintest idea of what you saw, together with the 99.98% of the people here on GAF, and from there you pretend to speculate, based on your bias and the rumors spread by some delusional twitter user that shall forever remain nameless.
 
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SenjutsuSage said:
Series X won't need ML to outperform PS5 in an obvious way. ML actually being viable and as useful as DLSS will only make it a bloodbath.
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Show me the bloodbath.
crickets GIF

SenjutsuSage said:
Wait a minute, was it me who spent months thinking the PS5 was RDNA 3, had unified L3 cache CPU like Zen 3 and Infinity Cache? Let's not try to shift the real reason this thread blew up. It's because you guys were made to look like fools so some dudes could laugh at it up as they upped their views, likes and subscribers. Someone in this thread definitely doesn't know what they're talking about, but it's surely not the guys who could smell the bs from a mile and knew you all were being taken for a ride by RGT and Moores law.
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I have not seen much rhetoric about RDNA is version X on the PS side, this is a fixation of the xbox side, what's interesting is the denial about the relative performance of these machines and people like you who keep going on about "bloodbath", do you still post in the xbox power meme thread while you are at it? Like, put up or shut up. (with actual results)
 
SenjutsuSage said:
Minor edge to PS5? Hardly my friend. Games with glaring issues on Xbox Series X have all been patched to fix obvious bugs/issues, same will happen for any others. Many titles seem more or less equal. Show me a single title on either console released so far where the PS5 has the level of advantage over the Series X as the Series X holds over the PS5 in Hitman 3? There isn't one. And guess what? You'll never see one because the Series X is the clearly more powerful console and more games will eventually show it. The best you can hope for is parity or minor issues that eventually get patched for Series X bringing it in line with the PS5 version.
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A game reaching graphical parity or being slightly better than PS5, considering the extra 2 TFLOPS + sustained clocks + 2-3x memory multipliers from SFS + extra RAM bandwidth + etc... etc... is an even better compliment for the PS5 architects and engineers than the ones Sony fans give them :LOL:.
 
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SenjutsuSage said:
Minor edge to PS5? Hardly my friend. Games with glaring issues on Xbox Series X have all been patched to fix obvious bugs/issues, same will happen for any others. Many titles seem more or less equal. Show me a single title on either console released so far where the PS5 has the level of advantage over the Series X as the Series X holds over the PS5 in Hitman 3? There isn't one. And guess what? You'll never see one because the Series X is the clearly more powerful console and more games will eventually show it. The best you can hope for is parity or minor issues that eventually get patched for Series X bringing it in line with the PS5 version.
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Hitman 3: Mendoza mission - XSX would have to reduce the resolution of the game to or below the level of PS5, which there comfortably holds the framerate above 60 fps. It is highly likely that in order for XSX to achieve the same fps stability as the PS5, the whole game should run in resolution as on the PS5.
 
SenjutsuSage said:
Minor edge to PS5? Hardly my friend. Games with glaring issues on Xbox Series X have all been patched to fix obvious bugs/issues, same will happen for any others. Many titles seem more or less equal. Show me a single title on either console released so far where the PS5 has the level of advantage over the Series X as the Series X holds over the PS5 in Hitman 3? There isn't one. And guess what? You'll never see one because the Series X is the clearly more powerful console and more games will eventually show it. The best you can hope for is parity or minor issues that eventually get patched for Series X bringing it in line with the PS5 version.
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Pretty much, people still clinging to those launch comparisons, must seem like the good old days to them. Hitman 3 blows the narrative apart as the only game with a clear constant advantage, more to come.
 
Riky said:
Pretty much, people still clinging to those launch comparisons, must seem like the good old days to them. Hitman 3 blows the narrative apart as the only game with a clear constant advantage, more to come.
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Pre launch "nah, spreading FUD, it is ok they are only showing Gears 5 and BC titles, you will see at launch, minimum of 18% difference... you will see".

Post launch "nah, spreading FUD, it is ok there were cases of parity and Xbox faking behind the much weaker and clearly worse designed PS5, you will see post launch, minimum of 18% difference... you will see"

[...]

"nah, spreading FUD..."
 
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Panajev2001a said:
A game reaching graphical parity or being slightly better than PS5, considering the extra 2 TFLOPS + sustained clocks + 2-3x memory multipliers from SFS + extra RAM bandwidth + etc... etc... is an even better compliment for the PS5 architects and engineers than the ones Sony fans give them :LOL:.
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The only next generation game we have so far is demon souls.

You seem like a smart guy do you really believe that games like dirt 5, Hitman 3, Assassin's Creed Valhalla etc all last generation games with last generation engines have tapped into either console?

I understand console wars is serious business for some but really the war hasn't even started.
 
Night.Ninja said:
The only next generation game we have so far is demon souls.

You seem like a smart guy do you really believe that games like dirt 5, Hitman 3, Assassin's Creed Valhalla etc all last generation games with last generation engines have tapped into either console?

I understand console wars is serious business for some but really the war hasn't even started.
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I would add Astro's Play Room to that list and soon Ratchet & Clank.

Still, I agree with you I do not think either console has been tapped and I think we can praise each design without crapping on the other, but yeah, console warring is definitely the most important thing for some people.
 
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SenjutsuSage said:
How that PS5 cooling patent work out? Remember that special heatsink? Patents don't mean a damn thing if it isn't proven to be in the silicon. Next.
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Cernys patents are GNMX and GPU related and therefore, GNMX always is updating with new stuff. This is different to hardware components like cooling patent. So, cut the crap.
 
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Riky said:
Pretty much, people still clinging to those launch comparisons, must seem like the good old days to them. Hitman 3 blows the narrative apart as the only game with a clear constant advantage, more to come.
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What about the micro stutters? If Hitman 3 must be the benchmark for a "better" performing" console compared to the PS5, then it looks really sad for the XSX, knowing how hard Xbox was trying to convince you how much more better 12TF and all the buzz around was.
 
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Snake29 said:
What about the micro stutters? If Hitman 3 must be the benchmark for a "better" performing" console compared to the PS5, then it looks really sad for the XSX.
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I haven't experienced any, the framerate drops are on the outskirts in a field of one level, you really have little reason to go there anyway.
Plus I have VRR so wouldn't see them.
 
Riky said:
I haven't experienced any, the framerate drops are on the outskirts in a field of one level, you really have little reason to go there anyway.
Plus I have VRR so wouldn't see them.
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The problem is still there. People without VRR and those are more then 95% of the people (or even more), have all these issues, like framedrops and microstutters. Microstuttes are even worse then only drops.

You only come up with a lot of excuses after both consoles launched, it's funny to see you guys now and before launch.
 
SenjutsuSage said:
Wait a minute, was it me who spent months thinking the PS5 was RDNA 3, had unified L3 cache CPU like Zen 3 and Infinity Cache? Let's not try to shift the real reason this thread blew up. It's because you guys were made to look like fools so some dudes could laugh at it up as they upped their views, likes and subscribers. Someone in this thread definitely doesn't know what they're talking about, but it's surely not the guys who could smell the bs from a mile and knew you all were being taken for a ride by RGT and Moores law.
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The speculation was that certain features like the GE on the PS5 would be adapted and used by AMD for RDNA 3, the unified L3 cache thing from RGT was also speculation. No one here was 100% sure that was gonna be the case, and even the guy who talked about it (RGT) says to take this stuff with "a massive grain of salt" before he even starts talking about any leaks every single video. And I've seen some people call the guy a fanboy lol, he's mainly a PC guy just like MLiD, he barely plays on consoles.

If there were any leaks from these guys talking about Xbox having RDNA 3 features or RDNA 3 taking features from Xbox, we know how you would be posting right now. You were one of the fanboys hyping the SX up after the specs reveal, talking about how we're all gonna see a huge difference on third-party titles favouring the Xbox. How well did that turn out for you? If those launch games did end up running at a higher resolution and frame rate on SX while the PS5 was struggling, we all know the type of conversations that would be taking place right now. So idk, who really was the one that looked like a fool in the end?

I knew you were a diehard warrior already but after seeing garbo like this, I know that I shouldn't be taking the stuff you post seriously anymore (as if anyone was before).

PAv2fsu.jpg
 
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Riky said:
I haven't experienced any, the framerate drops are on the outskirts in a field of one level, you really have little reason to go there anyway.
Plus I have VRR so wouldn't see them.
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Cool, you spent 5k on top of 500 to be able to give FPS stability to XSX. WOW! What a bargain! :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
SenjutsuSage said:
Minor edge to PS5? Hardly my friend. Games with glaring issues on Xbox Series X have all been patched to fix obvious bugs/issues, same will happen for any others. Many titles seem more or less equal. Show me a single title on either console released so far where the PS5 has the level of advantage over the Series X as the Series X holds over the PS5 in Hitman 3? There isn't one. And guess what? You'll never see one because the Series X is the clearly more powerful console and more games will eventually show it. The best you can hope for is parity or minor issues that eventually get patched for Series X bringing it in line with the PS5 version.
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Not to derail this thread about the PS5's die shot further, but since you keep repeating this nonsense: How can you judge the performance of the PS5 in Hitman 3 if it never drops a frame?
 
FatKingBallman said:
Well, surely it's not a 15 hours analysis to measure whole game. If analysis has a scene or more of them where PS5 performs better, well, it performs better. I have right to say that if analysis provides that, which it does
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Just one thing which is for sure, on PS5 you see 44% less pixels at all the time. The end
 
Riky said:
I haven't experienced any, the framerate drops are on the outskirts in a field of one level, you really have little reason to go there anyway.
Plus I have VRR so wouldn't see them.
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half of this level was dense foliage so good try but not true ;)
 
StreetsofBeige said:
Corporate figurehead's purpose are to promote and exaggerate to create hype. Like that old Sony guy from the PS3 days sayin PS3 will do 1080p games and 120 fps. A ton of hyperbolic crap. Out of all games, you could probably count on your fingers the number of games that achieved this out of the 1,000s of games released.

That same time line, Sony also presented PS3 has 2 TF of GPU power. I don't think even any PC video cards were that good in 2006.

Cerny was also the guy promoting Knack as a great game. Game gets released, gets grilled and then disappeared.

Spencer, Mattrick and Greenburg would do the same shilling.
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Except Mark Cerny isn't a corporate figurehead. He's the last person to talk hyperbole. Try a bit harder next time
 
longdi said:
I believe the cache scrubbers are the custom I/O block i mentioned.
As for the GE, so far, they are said to be close to primitive shaders than mesh shaders.
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It's funny when longdi attempts to give the impression he knows what he's on about or he's technical. When in fact he makes himself look foolish, out of his depth and fangirl to boot.
 
SenjutsuSage said:
Sony's greatest weapon has always been their first party studios, and the best things they pump out will stand up very favorably next to anything that is released on Xbox and even PC, but they simply do not appear to have the more advanced or more powerful console of the two.
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Is it really necessary to be so ridiculous in your expressions to not understand that the PS5 was created in that way it is precisely because Sony has such internal studios? You really just get yourself into a dead end every time.
SenjutsuSage said:
You'll never see one because the Series X is the clearly more powerful console and more games will eventually show it. The best you can hope for is parity or minor issues that eventually get patched for Series X bringing it in line with the PS5 version.
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I don't understand, the Xbox is so powerful that the whole generation will have "just parity" and problems in the multi-platform because of its power? Seems legit. In general, do you know that rough mathematical performance for games no longer matters as it did before? Do you know why? Probably not. All this pathos of yours because of the 18% in teraflops for the GPU? It's not even funny, it's sad.
 
longdi said:
actually how do you determind ps5 HS has much lesser copper?
From the looks of both, ps5 HS seems more complex to manufacture and unlikely be cheaper than sx solid block? when you add in liquid metal....

308mm² vs 360mm² is too close to call imo.
For instance, the die size between 3080 v 3070 is 628mm2 v 392mm2
6800 v 6700 is 519mm2 v 335mm2 (rumor)

I dont think ps5 is cheaper or that much cheaper as their $399 pricing may looks. Dont get confused with an aggressive marketing push rather than an engineering win.
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Spot on my friend. In silicon a smaller die is always more expensive than a larger one. Even with Sony able to get more chips per wafer. The SX will be cheaper BOM. The 320bit bus and faster memory chips helps MS cut the price even further. How can MS lose with fangirl nonsense
 
John Wick said:
Spot on my friend. In silicon a smaller die is always more expensive than a larger one. Even with Sony able to get more chips per wafer. The SX will be cheaper BOM. The 320bit bus and faster memory chips helps MS cut the price even further. How can MS lose with fangirl nonsense
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People has no ideia what they are talking about lol
 
Leyasu said:
I have a VRR set that cost me 1300 (55Q80T samsung).You don't need to spend 5k to get it
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Happy for you. I don't plan to spend a penny, because I still have a 4k TV, and cheaper TVs don't support VRR. But it seems that the only way to get stable framerates on the XSX is by using VRR. it's sad, really.
 
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