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[elcapitano]

no. it absolutely did. BUT underperforming ≠ flopping.

Part 2 underperformed by around 5 million

It should have had Ragnarok's performance.

Ragnarok played the story safe and also didn't leak and have a load of false narratives spread all over the internet.. That can't be forgotten.

Personally I don't want any Dev in the future to aim for sales over what they want to write. (Not saying Santa Monica did that btw).

Anyway the game has had great legs and will continue to do so. Also to this point hasn't really been Bundled and only has one SkU which are all very relevant factors.

 

[elcapitano]

Isn't this an effect of the TV show, not necessarally of the game?

It made the top sales on PSN for all of 2022 in the US and EU before the show even released. No other playstation game as old made the list.

 

[Luminoth-4545]

Great Sales in the UK for PS5, Xbox actually doing okay this month and Switch going to be around 25% down this year. As far as worldwide goes Sales analyst Ampere put out their sell through estimations last week, numbers are up to 31st December 2022.

Ampere Analysis Console sell-through EoY 2022: PS5 30m, XSX|S 18.5m, NSW 119.5m​

https://www.ampereanalysis.com/insi...iew-hampered-by-lack-of-hardware-availability

Worth pointing out that this means their sell through estimates for 2022 are PS5 13.5M, XBS 8M, Switch 19.8M. Sounds about right given what we know.
Official Shipments for 2022 were 14.8M for PS5 and 19.01M for Switch and a total of 32.1M for PS5 and 122.55M for Switch. If Xbox Series has sold through a total of 18.5M then total Shipments would be around 20.5M.

According to Ampere at the same point in their respective lifecycles (end of 2015) the sell through for PS4 was 35.9M and XB1 was ~19.5M.

 

[Woopah]

Excellent results for PS5, and its good to see Xbox Series is growing as well.

Switch needs to be replaced in the next 12 months. It probably has one good year left in it, but not much more than that.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

People (watching the show) probably want to know how the story after TLOU1 unfolds. Those poor souls they don't know what's going to hit them.

So shouldn’t that game’s sales increase after the season is over?

 

[Alex Scott]

We all know how secretive this industry can be. In the box office reports, there is a lot more data available, and companies themselves report their estimates for the opening week. People can also learn about budgets and how to interpret all these numbers to understand how much money a movie needs to make to break even, make a profit, or outright flop.

The second week drop is a huge metric for projecting the final number. It is clear that scores like Rotten Tomatoes and Cinema Score, alongside media discourse, repeat viewing, and word of mouth, affect the longevity of a movie.

the word "underperfomed/outperformed" are widely used in this context. but also words like "front loaded" or "long-tail"

Now, regarding Part 2 we can agree is a financial success no doubt about it.

but also, we can't ignore the context in which it released.

when you see the initials numbers of the game...it beat Spider-Man and God of War in the same period. then clearly sales plunged.

why? you could say the game was "front loaded". the word of month was not as strong, etcetera.

when you compared the first game original sales performance....NOW you see a disconnect:

in just one year TLoU 1 sold 8 million.

how is it possible that the sequel to the most successful PS3 game GOTY/Game of The Generation took 2 years to reach 10 million? especially when you compared the performance of Ragnarok? a game that was also a GOTY/Game of the generation?.

yep. Part 2 clearly underperformed.

Yeah I also think that TLoU part 2 underperformed. Initial sales were great, after that not so much.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Yeah I also think that TLoU part 2 underperformed.

hide.

 

[DForce]

We all know how secretive this industry can be. In the box office reports, there is a lot more data available, and companies themselves report their estimates for the opening week. People can also learn about budgets and how to interpret all these numbers to understand how much money a movie needs to make to break even, make a profit, or outright flop.

The second week drop is a huge metric for projecting the final number. It is clear that scores like Rotten Tomatoes and Cinema Score, alongside media discourse, repeat viewing, and word of mouth, affect the longevity of a movie.

the word "underperfomed/outperformed" are widely used in this context. but also words like "front loaded" or "long-tail"

Now, regarding Part 2 we can agree is a financial success no doubt about it.

but also, we can't ignore the context in which it released.

when you see the initials numbers of the game...it beat Spider-Man and God of War in the same period. then clearly sales plunged.

why? you could say the game was "front loaded". the word of month was not as strong, etcetera.

when you compared the first game original sales performance....NOW you see a disconnect:

in just one year TLoU 1 sold 8 million.

how is it possible that the sequel to the most successful PS3 game GOTY/Game of The Generation took 2 years to reach 10 million? especially when you compared the performance of Ragnarok? a game that was also a GOTY/Game of the generation?.

yep. Part 2 clearly underperformed.

The Last of Us surpassed 7 million copies sold in mid-July, just over a year after its release. Guardians of the Galaxy made $94 million in its opening weekend, which equates to an audience of 11.5 million.

God of War and Spider-man both sold around 3m in the first few days.

God of war reached 10 million in 13 months.
Spider-Man reached 13.5 million in just 10 months.

You're saying God of War underperformed.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

it did

no. it absolutely did. BUT underperforming ≠ flopping.

Part 2 underperformed by around 5 million

It should have had Ragnarok's performance.

This makes no sense whatsoever. Why would the first TLOU sequel have the same sales numbers as PlayStations longest running IP outside of Ratchet and GT?

The previous God of War sold faster than the first TLOU. There’s no reason to believe TLOU2 would have similar sales as Ragnarok.

Where’s the source that it underperformed?

 

[kazuyamishima]

As for the Whole thing about Part II underperforming, I think it was more a thing about the transition between the PS4 and the PS5, But also the leaks, the plot and a lot of youtube influencers played a big part.

But all in all, its good to see the game bouncing back, considering there is not a native PS5/PC version yet.

 

[EN250]

Damn, imagine how much it would have sold without the shortages, it'd be breaking records left and right

 

[Alex Scott]

God of War and Spider-man both sold around 3m in the first few days.

God of war reached 10 million in 13 months.
Spider-Man reached 13.5 million in just 10 months.

You're saying God of War underperformed.

Last of us part 2 sold 10 million in 2 years. It performed quite poorly when we are comparing it to GoW 2018 and Spiderman with the same time frame.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yeah I also think that TLoU part 2 underperformed. Initial sales were great, after that not so much.

I also think the game underperformed...

Not sure how you can really argue otherwise.

That being said, it will get a second lease on life and maybe even a 3rd.

 

[HotSauceEnema]

Reading the Era thread on this topic, some of them are malding sooooooo hard it's incredible. Can really tell the ones who played it vs havent played it, anyone whos played it is not surprised at it doing well at all lol

 

[Dick Jones]

Sure, let me help you out.

Only 20% of copies sold from Horizon were bundled in Europe. This was also during the time when we didn't see many consoles shipped in Europe.



He also acknowledges (which is my point) that bundles help boost sales.



God of War likely had more bundles shipped in comparison to Horizon Forbidden West.

The point: Bundles help boost sales and it doesn't get to a certain milestone without it. I never once said the majority or even half of the sales were due to bundles.

Most hotly anticipated AAA games are bundled. Thats how it works, they bundle them because they will move consoles. This isn't the gotcha you think you have champ. Just because there are bundles, it doesn't mean that the game wouldn't be bought otherwise. Who bought a PS5 and complained about having to play Ragnarok bundled

I bought the PSVR2 Horizon Bundle because... shock horror... I wanted to play that game day 1. If there was no bundle, I'd have bought the PSVR2 and get Horizon day 1.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Not sure how you can really argue otherwise.

Well, with statements like this made without any data to back up the claim, then yes, one can argue otherwise.

 

[X-Wing]

Fuck Jim Ryan.

Yes, fire that guy! He is killing PlayStation! /s

 

[Dr. Claus]

And because you stated that time and time again, this is now a law that applies to the general public? And you call other people children?

It is perfectly legitimate to use Metacritic and OpenCritic as a barometer for the quality of a game. Of course you have to look at such ratings in a differentiated way, but that really applies to all ratings that are made on the Internet.

Ultimately, only your own opinion is decisive. Because listening to any "fans" and "true buyers" in Internet forums is also nonsense. Who tells me these are normal people and not console warriors from the other camp?

I keep getting proven correct, time and time again. You are only bolstering that metric.

121 reviews that say it's great and then we have you that says TLOU2 sucks. Hmmmm......which one is the console warrior and acting as a child? People like you are sad. Just because you dislike a game that most love, doesn't mean anything to the rest of us.

Keep going Mckmas. You only further prove my point.

 

[DForce]

Most hotly anticipated AAA games are bundled. Thats how it works, they bundle them because they will move consoles. This isn't the gotcha you think you have champ. Just because there are bundles, it doesn't mean that the game wouldn't be bought otherwise. Who bought a PS5 and complained about having to play Ragnarok bundled

I bought the PSVR2 Horizon Bundle because... shock horror... I wanted to play that game day 1. If there was no bundle, I'd have bought the PSVR2 and get Horizon day 1.

I noticed you didn't disagree with the fact that it boosted sales.

The fact of the matter is, if a customer wants a PlayStation 5, then there's a good chance he's going to buy a bundle even if he doesn't want God of War.

Bundles help sales. That's the point.

NPD doesn't count bundles on their sales charts. The Last of Us Part II was third in revenue in the US, and it beat Uncharted 4, Last of Us Remastered, Days Gone, and Horizon Zero Dawn in less than 2 months (in two weeks outside of Horizon).

Guess what Mat Piscatella mentioned?

Bundles.

Maybe you paid attention to any sales thread over the past 10 years, then you would see bundles being mentioned a lot..

 

[Ronin_7]

Jim Ryan can't be stopped

BEST Business man in the gaming industry, only surpassed by Peter Moore as THE

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

TLOU2 still ruling the conversation in sales topic almost 3 years after its release.

The relevancy i swear

 

[lh032]

i guess playstation showcase getting nearer now.

 

[kazuyamishima]

TLOU2 still ruling the conversation in sales topic almost 2 years after its release.

The relevancy i swear

It will be 3 years in June this year.

CRAZY!!!

 

[Kacho]

I noticed you didn't disagree with the fact that it boosted sales.

The fact of the matter is, if a customer wants a PlayStation 5, then there's a good chance he's going to buy a bundle even if he doesn't want God of War.

Bundles help sales. That's the point.

NPD doesn't count bundles on their sales charts. The Last of Us Part II was third in revenue in the US, and it beat Uncharted 4, Last of Us Remastered, Days Gone, and Horizon Zero Dawn in less than 2 months (in two weeks outside of Horizon).

Guess what Mat Piscatella mentioned?

Bundles.

Maybe you paid attention to any sales thread over the past 10 years, then you would see bundles being mentioned a lot..

I think people are arguing with you for the sake of arguing. They haven't refuted a single point you made and they can't because you are correct.

 

[Alex Scott]

Well, with statements like this made without any data to back up the claim, then yes, one can argue otherwise.

But we have data. Last of us part 2 took 2 years to reach 10 million sold, while games like God of War 2018 took about a year to reach the same point.

 

[Dick Jones]

I noticed you didn't disagree with the fact that it boosted sales.

The fact of the matter is, if a customer wants a PlayStation 5, then there's a good chance he's going to buy a bundle even if he doesn't want God of War.

Bundles help sales. That's the point.

NPD doesn't count bundles on their sales charts. The Last of Us Part II was third in revenue in the US, and it beat Uncharted 4, Last of Us Remastered, Days Gone, and Horizon Zero Dawn in less than 2 months (in two weeks outside of Horizon).

Guess what Mat Piscatella mentioned?

Bundles.

Maybe you paid attention to any sales thread over the past 10 years, then you would see bundles being mentioned a lot..

One bundled console means that purchase helped sales for the game that's bundled. No shit sherlock. BOTW total sales now look shit now thanks to your great insight.

NPD is the US only. Playstation sells worldwide. America≠The World.

Also are you saying that a game in 2020 for a console that came out in 2013 should have sold more bundles or that there was the same supply and demand for PS4s when both TLOU:2 and Uncharted 4 released that TLOU:2 didnt push the same amount of consoles. Your point makes no logical sense. Could you provide evidence of what Mat said (link to tweet or interview he gave, not photos)?

Bundles pushing game sales was championed by Bernd Laurnt here (RIP to that dopey fuck's account) and that argument was blown out of the water by Christopher Dring (which I linked). Do you still believe Colt saying the XSX is the market leader or the PS5 should be kept horizontal due to leakage of liquid metal. It was FUD that trolls spread and idiots believed so which one are you?

 

[Bernardougf]

and again...you are keep ignoring the context in which the game came out.







if you think the leaks, the toxic conversation before and after plus the divisiveness of the game itself didn't affect sales...i dunno why to tell you. keep leaving inside your bubble i guess. more power to you.

I tried more them once to have this conversation... fanboys just cant accept the concept of sales vs expected/projected sales for a flagship product ... just let it go is not worth it

 

[Pedro Motta]

 

[yazenov]

Do we have the splits for Hogwarts Legacy?

 

[TLZ]

But the growth rate is shrinking fast

it seems like PS5 eats monsters for breakfast.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

But we have data. Last of us part 2 took 2 years to reach 10 million sold, while games like God of War 2018 took about a year to reach the same point.

This isn't even true. All we know is that TLOU2 surpassed 10M copies "early 2022". How is that 2 years?

I really can't think of any sequel from a Playstation property selling over 10M copies in a year and half. Can you?

Anyway...good for God of War for surpassing 10M with an entry for an almost 15 year old IP like 7 games and a reboot. TLOU is nowhere near an established franchise like God of War neither does it have the same history already.

God of War also didn't have the leak TLOU2 did.

It's interesting how TLOU2 did so bad yet Naughty Dog, Playstation's most premium studio is basically a TLOU factory at this point, lmao.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

That's not how regulation works.

No actually it is and its why it will go through. Reference this post when it does.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Reading the Era thread on this topic, some of them are malding sooooooo hard it's incredible. Can really tell the ones who played it vs havent played it, anyone whos played it is not surprised at it doing well at all lol

Link to any funny ones?

 

[HotSauceEnema]

Link to any funny ones?

not supposed to link them here, last time I did I was asked not to. Just best to read on your own but chuckle

 

[DForce]

One bundled console means that purchase helped sales for the game that's bundled. No shit sherlock. BOTW total sales now look shit now thanks to your great insight.

NPD is the US only. Playstation sells worldwide. America≠The World.

Also are you saying that a game in 2020 for a console that came out in 2013 should have sold more bundles or that there was the same supply and demand for PS4s when both TLOU:2 and Uncharted 4 released that TLOU:2 didnt push the same amount of consoles. Your point makes no logical sense. Could you provide evidence of what Mat said (link to tweet or interview he gave, not photos)?

Bundles pushing game sales was championed by Bernd Laurnt here (RIP to that dopey fuck's account) and that argument was blown out of the water by Christopher Dring (which I linked). Do you still believe Colt saying the XSX is the market leader or the PS5 should be kept horizontal due to leakage of liquid metal. It was FUD that trolls spread and idiots believed so which one are you?

I go by facts, dude.
Uncharted 4 sold 16 million. Guess how many copies of those in the US were due to bundles? Over 3 million.

You can't ignore bundles.

This is something you have to consider when looking at data.

Bernd Laurnt probably thought Horizon was only successful because of bundles, and he probably believed that half of the copies sold were due to bundles.

I never made any of those claims.

If Sony shipped over 7 million units within the past quarter and if you think either hundreds of thousands or at least a million of those units weren't God of War bundles, then you're only lying to yourself.

Last of us part 2 sold 10 million in 2 years. It performed quite poorly when we are comparing it to GoW 2018 and Spiderman with the same time frame.

Spider-Man and God of War sold 3 million in the first 3 days.
God of War sold 10 million in 13 months and Spider-Man sold 13.5 million in 10 months. Spider-Man wouldn't reach 13.5m in 10 months without the PS4 Slim bundle and God of War wouldn't reach 10 million in 13 months without 6 different bundles released in the same year. If you want to talk about performance, then make sure you factor in these things. Am I saying most or even 3 million are from bundles from God of war? No, but it would take longer than 13 months to reach 10 million for God of War without it.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

And I was reading how MS was 'closing the gap in comparison to last gen. Yeah, Sony's stock was really non-existent it seems. The surge is HUUUGE

They were, globally. They have been falling behind in the US and UK for some time now. That will become a very big problem if they can't turn things around in the US and UK, that last holiday season was much bigger for the PS5 than anticipated. Once that worldwide pillar shrinks and Xbox Series is no longer the fastest selling Xbox, that's going to be hard to recover from.

Some decent games this month and next for Xbox but the first huge game outside any surprises is in May. They need to make sure it's quality, give it marketing, and have Series X available.

I don't know what you're trying to prove but this only helps my point. lol

The tweet said around 80% of Horizon sales were NOT in a bundle, so that doesn't seem like the numbers are a result of a "massive" bundle, is what Dick Jones is arguing.

Of course it's only one region Dring talking about so we don't really know the overall bundle percentage.

 

[Dick Jones]

I go by facts, dude.
Uncharted 4 sold 16 million. Guess how many copies of those in the US were due to bundles? Over 3 million.

You can't ignore bundles.

This is something you have to consider when looking at data.

Bernd Laurnt probably thought Horizon was only successful because of bundles, and he probably believed that half of the copies sold were due to bundles.

I never made any of those claims.

If Sony shipped over 7 million units within the past quarter and if you think either hundreds of thousands or at least a million of those units weren't God of War bundles, then you're only lying to yourself.


Spider-Man and God of War sold 3 million in the first 3 days.
God of War sold 10 million in 13 months and Spider-Man sold 13.5 million in 10 months. Spider-Man wouldn't reach 13.5m in 10 months without the PS4 Slim bundle and God of War wouldn't reach 10 million in 13 months without 6 different bundles released in the same year. If you want to talk about performance, then make sure you factor in these things. Am I saying most or even 3 million are from bundles from God of war? No, but it would take longer than 13 months to reach 10 million for God of War without it.

Sorry is Mat Piscatella ZhugeEX? I never saw that coming.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

What does year-to-date mean?
Year-to-date (YTD) means the total of something from the first day of the year through the current date. It is a time-based measurement used in financial management and investment. Most North American companies take year-to-date to mean the calendar year, which is also aligned with their fiscal year (starting January 1).

Like I said, it's down in the same time frame vs last year. Down year-to-date by 5.3% like in the OP.

Dude.

Instead of being condescending learn to read.

He literally says "Up 15% from last February" are you not able to understand that basic statement?

The only person being confused and who keeps bringing up YTD is you, he says nothing about YTD in that part of his tweet, he literally says up 15% from LAST(2022) February in THIS(2023) report. You're reading poorly and skipping that middle section straight to the end where it says 5.3% down, you actually have to read the WHOLE tweet.

 

[onQ123]

I'm pretty sure The Last Of Us II has outperformed Halo Infinity + Gears Of War 5

Do we really want to talk about The Last Of Us II underperforming every time it's good PlayStation news?

I remember Crackdown 3 was supposed to set the world on fire

 

[Alex Scott]

This isn't even true. All we know is that TLOU2 surpassed 10M copies "early 2022". How is that 2 years?

On offical PS blog it said "as of spring" so it could be March, April, or May.

I really can't think of any sequel from a Playstation property selling over 10M copies in a year and half. Can you?

Well Spiderman 2018, God of war 2018 and Raganarok,

Anyway...good for God of War for surpassing 10M with an entry for an almost 15 year old IP like 7 games and a reboot. TLOU is nowhere near an established franchise like God of War neither does it have the same history already.

I think Last of us was much more special than God of War.

God of War also didn't have the leak TLOU2 did.

I do agree with that TLOU2 leaked affected the game sales.

It's interesting how TLOU2 did so bad yet Naughty Dog, Playstation's most premium studio is basically a TLOU factory at this point, lmao.

It was a profitable and successful game. I am just saying that Naughty dog and Sony expected a bit more.

 

[JaksGhost]

What's the end game regarding TLOU2's performance because I've yet to see a valid reason on why it's consistently brought up except for a GOTCHA moment to satiate your own opinion of the game. It's been almost 3 years, we're tired.

 

[DForce]

The tweet said around 80% of Horizon sales were NOT in a bundle, so that doesn't seem like the numbers are a result of a "massive" bundle, is what Dick Jones is arguing.

Of course it's only one region Dring talking about so we don't really know the overall bundle percentage.

I read the thread and put it into context.

Chris said Sony didn't ship many units in that region that year, which is different out here in the US. God of War saw a large number of bundles ever since it was released in November.

Sony has shipped A LOT of PlayStation 5 consoles within the past 5 months and they'll continue to ship more. A good amount of those units are God of War bundles.

Yes, God of War and Horizon sold well without the bundles, but they were in fact helped with bundle sales, even more so when it comes to God of War because we know they shipped a lot of units recently.


This data cannot be ignored and it's not even a 1 for 1 comparison.

 

[Raonak]

Good to see TLOU2 still beasting along, fantastic game with fantastic sales numbers.

Where's that PS5 version tho!

 

[Loxus]

Dude.

Instead of being condescending learn to read.

He literally says "Up 15% from last February" are you not able to understand that basic statement?

The only person being confused and who keeps bringing up YTD is you, he says nothing about YTD in that part of his tweet, he literally says up 15% from LAST(2022) February in THIS(2023) report. You're reading poorly and skipping that middle section straight to the end where it says 5.3% down, you actually have to read the WHOLE tweet.

It's you that doesn't understand.
If February was up and year-to-date was down, that means it's was down this January vs last January.

Meaning from January to now, it's down vs the same time frame last year.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Well Spiderman 2018, God of war 2018 and Raganarok,

Spiderman 2018 wasn't a sequel to anything. It was the first game from an IP that doesn't even belong to Sony. it sells on its own.
God of War 2018 is a reboot from a long lasting IP. Did God of War 2 back in 2007 sold over 10M copies in a year and half?

 

[Dick Jones]

Spiderman 2018 wasn't a sequel to anything. It was the first game from an IP that doesn't even belong to Sony. it sells on its own.
God of War 2018 is a reboot from a long lasting IP. Did God of War 2 back in 2007 sold over 10M copies in a year and half?

Spider-Man 2018 was the sequel to Spider-Man 2017

 

[Physiognomonics]

So shouldn’t that game’s sales increase after the season is over?

It probably will. People just want to be spoiled now!

 

[Kerotan]

All Jim's fault. FFS Jim worst guy ever.

 

[Brucey]

It's you that doesn't understand.
If February was up and year-to-date was down, that means it's was down this January vs last January.

Meaning from January to now, it's down vs the same time frame last year.

Yes, just to be absolutely clear, Jan sales for xb was low. Feb sales had a nice bump of 21% from January, and 15% from Feb 2022, but Jan and Feb 2023 combined was still 5.3% down from Jan and Feb 2022 combined.

 

[Robbinhood]

Unreal PS5 numbers, sales would be at 50 mil if it weren't for shortages. They left it open for PS6 to set records.

HL is fantastic, now someone make a LOTR game with this quality! Why don't people like money. LOTR would translate even better with its sword combat. I just wanna walk around The Shire and Rivendell is that too much to ask.