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[twilo99]

I’m skeptical but perhaps as they optimize the emulation further this could work.

What I’m most interested in is handheld machines based in this SoC

Qualcomm says most Windows games should “just work” on its unannounced Arm laptops

How well will they run, though?

www.theverge.com

 

[twilo99]

 

[Skelterz]

The old suck it and see approach..

 

[LordOfChaos]

Game Porting Toolkit (and Whiskey) on macOS is pretty good, better than the current Windows x86 emulation for sure. Hopefully this new chip gets at least there.

 

[twilo99]

Game Porting Toolkit (and Whiskey) on macOS is pretty good, better than the current Windows x86 emulation for sure. Hopefully this new chip gets at least there.

Right, Apple have done an outstanding job with Rosetta as well, but Microsoft have been struggling with this for a while now and I’m starting to think that it could be a limitation with Windows that they can’t fix..

Also, as far as I know Qualcomm’s own drivers haven’t been great historically.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Right, Apple have done an outstanding job with Rosetta as well, but Microsoft have been struggling with this for a while now and I’m starting to think that it could be a limitation with Windows that they can’t fix..

Also, as far as I know Qualcomm’s own drivers haven’t been great historically.

I don't think it's a fundamental Windows limit, it's more that Apple has an advantage in designing its own hardware and software together, the chip they made can and does accelerate emulation functions such as flipping its memory model to match when emulating x86 for better performance, so they were able to get there first and set the high target. We'll have to see if the X Elite gets to this level.

 

[Haint]

LOLNO. Even Intel GPUs on actual x86 systems don't "just work", ain't no way Failcom is going to produce both working drivers AND a fucking ARM translation layer on top of each other.

 

[twilo99]

LOLNO. Even Intel GPUs on actual x86 systems don't "just work", ain't no way Failcom is going to produce both working drivers AND a fucking ARM translation layer on top of each other.

Overly optimistic indeed, but I do hope that gaming on ARM becomes a thing because they are ideal for handhelds..

 

[mrBarrelNut]

LOLNO. Even Intel GPUs on actual x86 systems don't "just work", ain't no way Failcom is going to produce both working drivers AND a fucking ARM translation layer on top of each other.

I'm not sure what you mean?

Windows on ARM has been able to run x86 programs for quite some time. And official Windows on ARM devices all use Qualcomm chips for now. For example, here is a video containing some gameplay from a year ago on lower powered Microsoft / Qualcomm SQ3 processor:



The new Snapdragon X Elite is much more powerful chip.

 

[Haint]

I'm not sure what you mean?

Windows on ARM has been able to run x86 programs for quite some time. And official Windows on ARM devices all use Qualcomm chips for now. For example, here is a video containing some gameplay from a year ago on lower powered Microsoft / Qualcomm SQ3 processor:



The new Snapdragon X Elite is much more powerful chip.

I mean 2 variables is much worse than 1. There's going to be a compounding effect of bad drivers and ARM translation layer issues either sitting on top of each other, or alternating which is at fault from game to game. As I said, Intel's struggling to deal with 1 variable and has infinitely more Windows driver experience than Qualcomm by virtue of their multiple decades of iGPU work.

 

[Dazraell]

This statement gave me Todd Howard "it just works" vibes

 

[RaySoft]

The Snapdragon X Elite lies somewhere close to Apple's M3 chip i benchmarks. The Elite should be better at raytracing.

 

[64bitmodels]

Most Windows games also "just work" on a functional x86 laptop too. Maybe get one of those instead...

 

[Dirk Benedict]

This statement gave me Todd Howard "it just works" vibes

 

[Hugare]

They said they were working on a x86 emulator some time ago, but nothing came out of it.

We with ARM devices are waiting

 

[Melon Husk]

I would very much like a hybrid arm/x86 laptop.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I would very much like a hybrid arm/x86 laptop.

In what way exactly? Even within fully x86 laptops, they had to do things like disable AVX-512 on big cores on certain processors because the little cores didn't support it and they had to keep the ISA identical for thread switching

But they are making x86 laptops that essentially have an ARM tablet as a screen, but the two sides aren't really talking to each other apart from using both sets of speakers

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

famous last words

 

[Melon Husk]

In what way exactly? Even within fully x86 laptops, they had to do things like disable AVX-512 on big cores on certain processors because the little cores didn't support it and they had to keep the ISA identical for thread switching

But they are making x86 laptops that essentially have an ARM tablet as a screen, but the two sides aren't really talking to each other apart from using both sets of speakers

"One that works" I should have added. Arm and x86 on the same SoC. I want my operating system and office programs to use arm cores. For occasional higher performance the x86 cores should be available for short term bursts.

 

[LordOfChaos]

"One that works" I should have added. Arm and x86 on the same SoC. I want my operating system and office programs to use arm cores. For occasional higher performance the x86 cores should be available for short term bursts.

Yeah that would be interesting, but again given how fragile it currently is to where they can't even add x86 extensions to the big cores if there's a big/little mix that's going to be a complicated implementation

 

[Syphon Filter]

It's most likely ghetto emulation instead of the real native version.

 

[M1chl]

I'm not sure what you mean?

Windows on ARM has been able to run x86 programs for quite some time. And official Windows on ARM devices all use Qualcomm chips for now. For example, here is a video containing some gameplay from a year ago on lower powered Microsoft / Qualcomm SQ3 processor:



The new Snapdragon X Elite is much more powerful chip.

That shit running Control is actually really impressive

 

[64bitmodels]

It's most likely ghetto emulation instead of the real native version.

you're gonna need emulation to make this x86 to arm shift work at all, x86 has 30+ years of software being made for it, and not everyone who made that software is willing to port to arm/is even with us today...

 

[MarkMe2525]

Big talk from Qualcomm. Let's see how this plays out.

 

[Syphon Filter]

you're gonna need emulation to make this x86 to arm shift work at all, x86 has 30+ years of software being made for it, and not everyone who made that software is willing to port to arm/is even with us today...

yea i know, which is why x86 is better.

 

[64bitmodels]

yea i know, which is why x86 is better.

Well yes I agree. I won't be jumping on this until compat gets to 90% which will take forever. And this still doesn't mention how the shift will occur on the desktop side which is the one I care more about.

 

[Fbh]

So out of pure ignorance.
As a consumer what would be the benefit of an ARM laptop? What would the main benefit be over a x86 laptop?

 

[64bitmodels]

So out of pure ignorance.
As a consumer what would be the benefit of an ARM laptop? What would the main benefit be over a x86 laptop?

Better battery life and less heat due to arm supposedly being more efficient.

 

[lefty1117]

So what, the chips will have a built in emulation layer to handle x86 instruction set? It's some sort of "proton on other processor" (POOP) tech? I guess we can put up with POOP for a couple of years until we see direct hardware support. Linux gamers have been putting up with poop for a while now

 

[twilo99]

I would very much like a hybrid arm/x86 laptop.

What does that look like?

 

[twilo99]

Better battery life and less heat due to arm supposedly being more efficient.

It’s say it’s rather factual at this point since we have the ARM based Apple notebooks and no x86 based machine can come close them in term of efficiency, at least with what we have on the market currently, I’m sure Intel is not siting idle either.

 

[Kazekage1981]

 

[Crayon]

I've been looking forward to arm translation in general ever since proton came out. The definition of "PC" is incredibly specific when the acronym suggests just a multipurpose personal computing device. Go ahead and write the software for "PC" and let the alternative hardware, os, and form factors to diversify and compete.

 

[Ozriel]

Most Windows games also "just work" on a functional x86 laptop too. Maybe get one of those instead...

nobody is excited about this purely for gaming laptops

 

[twilo99]

nobody is excited about this purely for gaming laptops

In terms of gaming and ARM the only exciting thing for me is handhelds..

Gaming laptops can have dedicated GPUs and can afford much higher power draw.

15-20W power draw gaming is where things get interesting.

Of course everyone here hates the xss, but it does deliver very good performance at around 70-80W but that’s still too high for a mobile device.

If we can get xss performance at ~25W … that’s a big win

 

[Porticus]

Give it some years and that win is gonna come, ARM is not a solution, time is.

 

[Ozriel]

Give it some years and that win is gonna come, ARM is not a solution, time is.

It was certainly a solution for Apple.

 

[Drew1440]

How long will it be before we get native AAA ARM games on Windows?

 

[Porticus]

It was certainly a solution for Apple.

To my knowledge Apple doesn't have an x86 license.

Plus, we are talking about a totally different market and situation.

 

[Kazekage1981]

How long will it be before we get native AAA ARM games on Windows?

Triple AAA native ARM games most likely in 2-3 years. This may be accelerated if AMD and NVIDIA make their own ARM based CPU/GPU/NPU/APU to compete with Qualcomm because they want to see their hardware shine, along with advancements in AI, DirectX12Ultimate, Visual Studio and game engines that convert x86 to native ARM.

 

[existensmaximum]

To my knowledge Apple doesn't have an x86 license.

Plus, we are talking about a totally different market and situation.

And totally different prices..

 

[twilo99]

How long will it be before we get native AAA ARM games on Windows?

Probably a while unless Microsoft’s first party studios get tasked with making that happen sooner.

We could argue that it already happened with Resident Evil on Apples’s M2 chip, but I’m not sure if that’s considered a AAA title

 

[Pedro Motta]

ARM future is coming, wether you want it or not

 

[WitchHunter]

Qualcomm, another Nvidia like company tries to rise. Oh man.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

Unless the initiative is gaming-driven, don’t buy the hype of a chipmaker whose main focus is on something else.

 

[twilo99]

Snapdragon X Elite laptops can play hit games without issue | Digital Trends

Qualcomm has showcased Baldur’s Gate 3 running at perfectly playable frame rates on a reference Snapdragon X Elite laptop

www.digitaltrends.com

 

[Ozriel]

Unless the initiative is gaming-driven, don’t buy the hype of a chipmaker whose main focus is on something else.

Their main focus is on being the chipmaker powering tens of millions of Windows laptops and desktops. And that includes powering some of the most popular use cases for the OS.

Anyone who thinks they aren’t serious about support for Steam/PC gaming seriously has to be in La La land.
Whether or not they stick the landing is a different discussion entirely.

 

[RoboFu]

pcs and mobile device sprinting toward each other now.

 

[twilo99]

It’s a problem.

 

[Gojiira]

Sounds too much like Todd Howard talk…Pass