BlueManifest
Member
What's the reason for arm and breaking all backwards compatibility again?
Ok, let me redefine the question. Can the high-tier ARM CPUs (the relative peers spec/die wise to modern mobile variant Zen CPUs) match the current zen mobile cores available for handelds in gaming performace?This question doesn't make sense, ARM CPUs from various vendors are wildly different. Apple CPUs can match or even beat AMD CPUs at many benchmarks (particularly front-end bound int/scalar workloads) while ARM CPUs from other vendors range from slightly behind to very far behind.
Different CPU architechtureWhat's the reason for arm and breaking all backwards compatibility again?
Apple's performance cores can, Qualcomm's are close but not quite on the same level, other ARM cores are not there yet.Ok, let me redefine the question. Can the high-tier ARM CPUs (the relative peers spec/die wise to modern mobile variant Zen CPUs) match the current zen mobile cores available for handelds in gaming performace?
Basically, I'm trying to figure out if ARM CPUs can match the mobile versions of the current Zen CPUs in real-world gaming performance, and in case not currently can future ARM CPUs catch up or surpass Zen 6 in gaming performance in both a handheld power envelope and home game console like the Xbox next?
Apple's been working on their chip's R&D since 2010. MS isn't going to have anything like that soon.Apple's performance cores can, Qualcomm's are close but not quite on the same level, other ARM cores are not there yet.
It doesn't make sense to me either.What's the reason for arm and breaking all backwards compatibility again?
Not a joke, any Windows gaming device is considered an Xbox now. There will be "Xbox" devices using chips from AMD, Intel, Qualcomm and even NVIDIA, and they will be made by ASUS, MSI, Lenovo, etc.
Wasn't the next Xbox console meant to be the biggest leap in power we have seen? Or something along those lines? I didn't realise they were going to make that leap BACKWARDS with power and not a console with MORE power...
That's called the tipping point, and that'll be up to Microsoft's engineers. If translating ARM to x86 instructions for their hardware still provides enough of a gain, that'll likely be the reason.
One scenario I didn't consider in my original post is the speculated Steam integration: it might be a big-boy console only feature. If their handheld is ARM and their home console is x86, and if their SDKs are actually up to spec, they'll be able to recompile easily enough to produce the different packages, minimising dev support issues. They could then use their Smart Delivery setup to dynamically deploy the correct package to whatever hardware you're using - like when you put an Xbone disc into an XSX and you get the XSX download. In this scenario, there would be no translation layer. The handheld can only play Xbox games, and the home console can integrate with Steam, GOG, and/or Epic.
I can't help but think MS has always been miles ahead of everyone. So ahead that every move seems crazy. (Bad execution in short term strategy doesn't count)
MS and Nintendo are the ones trying to innovate, Sony on the other hand has brand name and experience.
Only possible to survive if Playstation does the Same. If ps6 is x64 and Xbox Series next is arm, They will get way less Games ported to their console.
They have a custom low power APU design with AMD for the "real" Xbox handheld, but the Windows "Xbox" handhelds will just use whatever APUs are available to OEMs (Z2E from AMD, Lunar/Panther Lake from Intel, X Elite 2 from Qualcomm and N1 from NVIDIA).Mmm...that is certainly an approach. Makes sense, and hopefully we hear more specifics soon, officially or leaked, whichever ends up happening.
I had some small thought maybe they'd design a specific APU or chip package with a specific group of components, make that a blueprint, then license it out to OEMs to build devices out of with some room for customization (i.e enabled shaders, higher clocks etc.).
But that is probably too much an investment on MS's side for devices they probably aren't that interested in, and don't feel will sell large enough volumes to justify the R&D.
They have a custom low power APU design with AMD for the "real" Xbox handheld, but the Windows "Xbox" handhelds will just use whatever APUs are available to OEMs (Z2E from AMD, Lunar/Panther Lake from Intel, X Elite 2 from Qualcomm and N1 from NVIDIA).
Well yeah Microsoft doesn't really have a vision they're just throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks.This all sounds confusing as hell from a consumer point of view.
Apple's been working on their chip's R&D since 2010. MS isn't going to have anything like that soon.
What MS will get without real R&D and real time is going to be something a lot like what Nintendo got.
It would appear that MS is banking on a lower resolution future for gaming.
You just made that up and lied.Well yeah Microsoft doesn't really have a vision they're just throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks.
An ARM windows PC? Not a big fan, I think it's too soon.
You just made that up and lied.
Stopping everyone else from making money.Microsoft's vision: Make all the money.
but not games, these are software written in ARM binary.IIRC, all Microsoft Store apps can run on both x86 and ARM.
It does allow Arm games (always has but were mobile only long ago), the current MS Store now fully supports Win32 Arm software, doesn't matter what kind work/game.but not games, these are software written in ARM binary.
There is an emulation layer but is not very efficient then again, awful for gaming.
PowerPC on ARM. I bet that's not been done before.
Considering most house don't even have any box under the TV, or even a place to put one, maybe it's time to look ahead.The handheld or a box under the tv?