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Question for UK GAFers........

G

Gaybrush Threepio

Member
.........would very much like your opinions on why GameCube has finished third out of the current generation of consoles in the UK.....please consider the product itself, the software that came out (3rd and 1st party), the marketing campaigns behind it........am very interested to hear the feedback from gamers as planning for Revolution begins........we don't want to make any mistakes twice!!

Thanks
 
Gaybrush Threepio said:
.........would very much like your opinions on why GameCube has finished third out of the current generation of consoles in the UK.....please consider the product itself, the software that came out (3rd and 1st party), the marketing campaigns behind it........am very interested to hear the feedback from gamers as planning for Revolution begins........we don't want to make any mistakes twice!!

Thanks
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Or 3 times if you count the 64.

Because of the lack of third party games that the other machines were blessed with. No GTA. No DVD player. It's seen as uncool. The massmarket not knowing anything about it. Lacked any must have games for the mass market. Rubbish advertising. Lack of customer and retailer confidence in Nintendo. Only appealed to the traditional Nintendo fans.
 
JackFrost2012 said:
"we"?
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yes, he works for Nintendo, or so we're told.

anyway, to answer the OP.

Gaybrush Threepio said:
.........would very much like your opinions on why GameCube has finished third out of the current generation of consoles in the UK.....please consider the product itself, the software that came out (3rd and 1st party), the marketing campaigns behind it........am very interested to hear the feedback from gamers as planning for Revolution begins........we don't want to make any mistakes twice!!

Thanks
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really it comes down to appealing to the masses with sports and racing trash, in the same league to the sorts of games EA churns out.
 
Not as 'cool' as Xbox & PS2 (in terms of everything from the name to the shape/colour of the console itself to the marketing), no first party titles to change that perception (bar Metroid prime).

And in general MS had the superior power (and demonstrations of it in multiplatform games), Sony had the superior selection of games, Nintendo didnt give anyone a reason to buy a Gamecube.
 
Its not something that a little bit of PR can solve. The Gamecube was a complete failure for me. Its completely dead in the water right now (higest seller being Shadow, christ!).

Delays are definitely a factor, especially when Nintendo rolled out the same usual shit about "really going to try with europe this time".

Perhaps the biggest reason I fell out of liking Nintendo were GBA game prices, which were fucking absurd. They should have been HALF of what console games were, not almost the same price!!

One thing Nintendo could do, if it wants to impress, is revolutionise how games are translated for different regions. It seems absurd that a game is first made and after its finished and released in one region, then translated for the next. In an age where communication across the entire planet is instantaneous, it should definitely be possible for a translation team to be working parallel to the original developers to ensure a worldwide launch.

No amount of PR bullshit is going to improve Nintendo in my eyes, so its out of your hands really Threepio!
 
I wouldn't say it was the software as much as it was a lack of enthusiasm with the product from NOE.

For a product to do well commercially, your marketing department has to believe in the product. they have to believe they can do well with it. NOE seemed a bit sheepish in their approach. almost conceeding that they were behind the others from only a year after launch.

it's a shame because GameCubes Euro launch was bloody EXCELLENT.
 
This is stupid. How can someone not know why Nintendo have been doing bad?

Nintendo = going the way of the dinosaur.
 
Nintendo simply aren't agressive enough in europe.. ps2 was already the cool machine to own a year before it even launched and the poor old purple lunchbox gamecube didnt stand a chance. It didnt help that most of the people that i know (self included) had already imported from japan or the US months before it launched here...

What else? Shelf space?

It still saddens me to see so little shelf space devoted to the DS in games stores - are you guys not fighting tooth and nail for that space? seems like the PSP is winning ground in the perception stakes just from that.. you need to push harder than sony to win ground back.

Nintendo need to launch fast and hard with revolution, tell people why their machine kicks everyone else's ass and come with as much 3rd party support as possible.

That said, the revolution is going to be a whole different beast. Its new and exciting and different. If i were nintendo i'd be hitting that hard. Really slap the PS3 and xbx360 down and make out that the rev is seen as the only way forward. It might not be true, it might be particularly childish but you cant win over the casuals (read - chavs) with anything less than saying you are the best. They don't understand anything else really.
 
Not taking your franchises into a more mature market like now with the DS was a big mistake I think. The new Mario Kart DS cover for instance is really good as it looks so clean and not kiddy at all, very nicely done. This way the game appeals to kids and adults alike, no one is going to be embarassed taking it to the counter.

Don't get me started on the color the gamecube got released with.

Nintendo's marketing here in germany is a joke as it is exclusively geared towards kids. Without exception. Even reading nintendo.de is painful since the writers apparently assume all their readers to be 8 year olds using the internet for the first time. There is clearely balance missing here.

Staggering game releases like with Kirby DS recently is painful to consumers that are aware what's going on outside their territory. Not everything has to be Q4.

I like how you could buy PAL version of gamecube games in it's later time and be sure you'd get a 60hz mode. That is seriously a big issue. Often I find myself in stores looking at ps2 games and not buying anything because I can't be sure the pal conversion is some shitty rush job. Then I end up importing everything from the states.

Not sure there's much else that was wrong that NoE could do anything about though. It was mostly screwups in japan I think.

Oh, go with regular DVD cases please. Everything else is bad. Especially if the cases are smaller so that stores end up putting them in extra containers to protect them from theft. That's no good.

Definately pack in the extra analog stick controller.

Make japan add HD support. Make it so. Don't let them get away with the same kind of mistake another time. HDTVs will be everywhere really quickly.

Name it R-NES or RNES.

No PSP style 4 icon adds ;)

Get some erupopean development studios up. (think singstar)

Use that promo video from TGS. It's genius.

Offer top notch developer support and make the dev kits cheap. Only know about NoA, but their gba kits were too expensive for instance.

By the way, when will the nintendowifi sites for europe be up? :)
 
These are more general issues than specific Gamecube ones, but they apply to strategy.

- Better/more advertising. The DS advertising is decent and well placed. Gamecube advertising was mostly terrible. Poorly placed, lack of diversity, little frequency compared to rivals.

- Increased/stronger brand awareness. Everyone knows what a Game Boy and PlayStation is from built brand strength. A solid, memorable name will help water down parental confusion that occurs. The amount of time I've had to correct someone that there's no such thing as a Playcube, Xstation or such (and from all those times, they always wanted to say Xbox/PlayStation, NEVER Gamecube) is insane. Put the name of the console on everyone's lips before it hits here. Which leads me to...

- ...make sure the public knows what it is before it launches. They have to understand the product otherwise you'll get lumped with the other next gen consoles automatically and lose the potential uniqueness of Revolution. Hardcore gamers have had plenty of time to adjust to the idea, casual gamers spoon fed on Need for Speed, standard controllers and such will look down on something so different without an easy and identifiable explanation to it.

- Market to adults before children. May seem like a stupid idea, but the problem GC had was it didnt reach both demographics like PS2 or Xbox. A cute Cube box was loved by the kids, hated by adults who had no idea of the games on the system. A gaming system these days is automatically on a child's radar. They're an aware market. Kids can and will want what adults want, but it rarely works the other way around. Thankfully, Revolution's looks are already angling for a wider user-base across age ranges, so this shouldnt be too difficult -- as long as a typical adult has a good understanding of the machine. Promo tours, heavy cross medium ads, etc.

- Better treatment of partners and press. I've had certain companies tell me how much Nintendo treats them with disdain and disinterest. High prices, unreasonable negotiations for rates, poor distribution and so on.
And I've personally experienced this as a potential (and very very large) partner and a member of the press. The latter of which is not an uncommon thing; why do we have to jump through hoops just to get press code for games we're trying to put in our publications? Why do we have to wait for box copy so close to release so the reviews are late/rushed? Why were there so few debug units available? You would not (or maybe you would) believe the amount of issues there are here. MS and Sony are so much more proficient in helping the press and their partners than Nintendo in the UK/Europe that it's not even funny. Show us you care and maybe we can actually reach the public a little better; because with the lack of advertising, awareness and perception, we've all you've got 3/4 of the time.

- Better scheduling. The DS suffered all through summer because of inexplicable delays on software that was out in the US months before. Then several good games get released AT THE SAME TIME. Not only is that rushed, but hell, it dilutes your audience who have gone from famine to feast.

- Dont break your promises and market to the territory. I'm very cautious of the supposed simultaneous worldwide launch. I'm seeing too much N64 in this, with a UK/Euro launch slipping into March 2007, followed by overpricing. We're used to being on the low end of the totem pole, but it often gets rubbed into our faces too much. If you're going to have us wait over everyone else at least have it launch with software that will sell to us specifically. Obviously a new Mario would be a potential killer app, but have a football game lined up. Or something to make it stand out to the territory at least.

I'm sure there's other things that stick out, but this is big enough as it is...

C.
 
ninge said:
Nintendo simply aren't agressive enough in europe.. ps2 was already the cool machine to own a year before it even launched and the poor old purple lunchbox gamecube didnt stand a chance. It didnt help that most of the people that i know (self included) had already imported from japan or the US months before it launched here...

What else? Shelf space?

It still saddens me to see so little shelf space devoted to the DS in games stores - are you guys not fighting tooth and nail for that space? seems like the PSP is winning ground in the perception stakes just from that.. you need to push harder than sony to win ground back.

Nintendo need to launch fast and hard with revolution, tell people why their machine kicks everyone else's ass and come with as much 3rd party support as possible.

That said, the revolution is going to be a whole different beast. Its new and exciting and different. If i were nintendo i'd be hitting that hard. Really slap the PS3 and xbx360 down and make out that the rev is seen as the only way forward. It might not be true, it might be particularly childish but you cant win over the casuals (read - chavs) with anything less than saying you are the best. They don't understand anything else really.
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Yes, Nintendo's non-aggressiveness about retail promotion and marketing has always been puzzling for me, it's been this way since the N64 actually. It almost seems like they're always resigned to the fact that their console will be a failure.
 
you can't have Resident Evil exclusive on a purple console

this is why GC is 3rd.. Nintendo must know first what it really want to do :)
 
Nintendo's crappy launch dates was the reason the GC was my first ever import console and it was probably the best gaming decision I've ever made. No stupid waits for games, plus by mixing in a few JPN games you could pretty much get a steady flow of games throughout the year instead of the usual 'everything in March or November' crap PAL regions have to deal with .
 
WHY I THINK NINTENDO GAMECUBE IS THIRD IN THE UK

I think its down to a number of factors. They came at once, they came one after the other, they were plain, downright damaging to the Gamecube image.


GAMES

I can't explain Sony's runaway success in the UK... other than by saying maybe they had the games people wanted, and they had them first. Those games were Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, proper EA support (which Dreamcast lacked) and various editions of Pro Evolution Soccer.

Some of those PS2 games were games Microsoft got on Xbox later on down the line, note Nintendo didn't get them at all.

Both Sony and Microsoft kept Britsoft "on-side". Codemasters, EIDOS, Rockstar etc were courted by both. Nintendo didn't get the Club Football games (which were team specific ie. versions for Liverpool, Chelsea, Manchester Utd... these were high visibility in UK stores), they didn't get Tomb Raider, they got Hitman 2 far too late, outside of that EIDOS support was non-existant (something I believe the new guy at SCi says he's gonna fix). Rockstar support was even worse.

Halo was the new goldeneye. GTA was the generation's own phenomenon (see Mario 64, Zelda, Tomb Raider, FF / MGS). Nintendo had neither, and didn't make too much of a fuss about games that could have caught on imo (Monkey Ball, Wario Ware)

It was preferable to buy third party (multiplatform) games on other systems because they were online or had better graphics. If the Revolution version of a multiplatform game is worth getting, Nintendo should communicate why. Nintendo needlessly lost the Burnout franchise for example, which was actually performing well on Gamecube. Games like Timesplitters 3 were automatically inferior.


IN STORE PRESENCE

The demo kiosks in stores are never wired to pads, demos of games are rarely updated. It might be preferable if Nintendo let people choose the games to promote with the kiosks (the stores may know their local customers better than Nintendo!), and maybe even use the full game disks rather than demos too.

Every indipendant store I have ever been in complains about how difficult it is to get things from Nintendo. There is a Indipendant store representative body in the UK IIRC. Nintendo should maybe work even more closely with them.

Things should never have been allowed to degenerate with Dixons group. Gamecube presence (or lack of) in Dixons, Currys, Comet and PC World sent out the wrong message. Gamers don't shop in Toys R Us as much anymore, they shop in consumer electronics stores, big media stores like HMV and specialists like GAME.


HARDWARE PRICING INSANITY

It made no sense to have the GBA at a slightly lower price than Gamecube, which it has been for most of the generation. Either the GBA should have been cheaper, or the cube should have been dearer. GB Micro and DS being so close in price can't be good either imo.

Why was there never a console + handheld bundle?


THE EA ADS ARE GOOD

Whatever exclusive deal Nintendo has in place with EA is a good idea. Basically every EA ad I've seen on TV seems to suggest that the EA games in question are only out on Nintendo DS or Gamecube. Nice.


RESIDENT EVIL 4 WAS A GOOD EXCLUSIVE... BUT

But I didn't see one advert on TV. This was Nintendos best ace before Zelda, and they let it go by silently. Likewise Metal Gear Twin Snakes and other potentials...


POSITIVE THINGS ABOUT REVOLUTION

I personally wanna see Revolution called Nintendo Entertainment System. I don't mind if Revolution is the final name, but I just think that'd be awesome. Its so many Nintendo systems in one, I just think its quite suitable.

The aesthetic of the machine is brilliant. It looks nice (possibly the nicest looking of the three?)... Nintendo tended to go with oddball campaigns in the UK. The initial rotating "cube" ads were stylish, but they showed little of the system. The presentation clip from E3 with the remote emerging from the white liquid was slick, seeing people play but only have the suggestion of what they were playing? That was both smart and tantalising. I like that kind of direction... tease with style

Nintendo Wifi connection is brilliant, and has potential to be better.. that needs pimping. Gaybrush, wheres the European wifi site incidentally? That being late kinda took the shine off the launch of it for me.


COPY OFF JAPAN?

Would it really be so bad to see some of the Japanese ads on TV? I know Nintendo has seperate advertising deals per region and stuff, but having seen some of the Japanese ads over the years, they're mad to not at least use some of them:

"Schools Out" was a great ad. Sure its full of Japanese people, but do Nintendo of Europe honestly believe people don't want to admit Nintendo is from Japan? They probably already know it. The scale of the ad was great, schoolkids rushing to the stores displaying all kinds of videogame-inspired powers, the shopkeeper turning around to see Mario clones everywhere... the racetrack logo. It wasnt even platform specific... and thats another thing Nintendo should consider. They're gonna have 3+ platforms to market next year, do they necessarily need 3 seperate campaigns?

The GB Micro 20th anniversary ads are chock full of nostalgia. The packaging of the Famicom Micro matches the theme. This is something the other guys can't do. Nintendo have 20 years of heritage to draw on, and they barely ever do it. Even the simple touches like the 'coin' sound when the Nintendo logo appears... brand reinforcing.
 
Bigfonzie said:
Quite simply, the xbox became the prefferd 2nd console, rather than the gamecube.
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well duh. the question is why?

anyway, i should clarify my earlier statement.

Scrow said:
really it comes down to appealing to the masses with sports and racing trash, in the same league to the sorts of games EA churns out.
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what i mean by that is nintendo needs to market their console to appear that way. i know nintendo did have sports and racing trash of the same caliber as EA's titles in those genres, but Nintendo didn't make any effort to make the Gamecube stand out as a console home to those games.

it's really all in the marketing as far as I'm concerned. Nintendo may have had those titles, but no one knew. people can't buy what they don't know about, so they didn't sell... and then third party support starts dropping off... which can sometimes be a good thing given the amount of shovelware out there, but overall it's to nintendo's detriment.

communication :P
 
1.having the GC sitting at the back of GAME certainly did not help anything, Nintendo need to make more of an effort to make sure stores push the platform.

2. IMAGE IS ALL WRONG

gamecube.jpg
ps2-scph-70000.jpg


If I was a father shopping for my son I know what Console he would want before I even looked at the games......
 
I don't think this is just a UK-only problem. But that aside, I still think most people don't even care about what system they buy, as long as everybody else is buying the same system. As long as clerks at the local gamestore are trying to sell PS2's instead of Gamecubes to a mother that is buying her kids a gift, for whatever reason, there isn't much going that is going change.

The Gamecube is a "family-computer" in a time where the whole family doesn't participate in playing computer games -yet-. The PS2 and Xbox are brute gaming machines targeted at a target audience who are very open to playing video games (say 15 to 20 year olds), and they took lots of other people with them just by offering the right games (sing-star, eye-toy play, rayman etc). I'm not saying Nintendo should turn around it's entire philosophy about making games and the people they offer it to, but they should make a LOT more effort to appeal to the "casual-cool gamer", the same guy or girl who play GTA because you get to "blow stuff up", and "everyone of my friends plays the game". But there just weren't, and aren't any games for the cube around that do such things.

I'm not from the UK but I think the rest of Nintendo Europe (and perhaps even NOA) have the same problem. Let Nintendo make the games they make now and made before, and make sure to bring every other game to the Revolution that makes people want to play the Xbox 360 and PS3 too. (it gets a little hard with exclusives, but GTA made it to Xbox, so why didn't it made the Gamecube?) Now, I don't know too much about commercials and public exposure, but it seems obvious that Nintendo should hype the shit out of the Revolution, no matter what medium.

ps, English isn't my first language, so I hope my post doesn't come across too awkward.
 
Gamecube Marketing

i think the marketing of the console was okay, but it was too kid centric and what you had to market was the problem. nintendo's image in the uk amongst the majority of gamers is a joke. nintendo is something people used to play, usually the snes, or something gamers haven't experienced and gained a negative opinion about from hearsay. many gamers would genuinely love nintendo games if they gave them a chance, this is the biggest hurdle.

the other huge issue is 3rd party support. nintendo concentrated too much on its own library in the beginning, resulting in many gamers not associating gamecube with 3rd party software, at all! more emphasis needs to be made on nintendo hardware being a source for great third party games. success will be if you can genuinely love a nintendo console without necessarily liking nintendo software or at least nintendo type software (i.e. mario, pokemon, kirby, etc are typically nintendo but metroid prime isn't).

nintendo also needs to make a bigger in-store presence of all its products.



Gamecube Hardware

the first thing that springs to mind is the look of the machine. it will be forever known as a purple lunchbox.

the memory card was another mistake. it was far too small. launching with a 251 block card would've been okay, basically the bigger the better.



Gamecube Software

1st party - bottom line, for the first half of its life it wasn't good enough. the big thing going for the n64 was an astounding 1st party line-up. if gamecube had pikmin 2, paper mario 2, dk jungle beat, donkey konga, fire emblem and twilight princess in the first 2 years, in addition to smash bros and metroid prime, gamecube would've been a much bigger success everywhere and nintendo would've had a much better reputation.

also wind waker. love it or hate it, the visually style sealed gamecube's fate and caused huge damage to the console and the zelda franchise.

another huge mistake was under valuing the fps game, this gens biggest growth genre. n64 was the console last gen for the fps. even though xbox had a great fps line-up nintendo should've had worthy replies. metroid prime is a phenomenal series, the best fps this gen imo, but it wasn't enough and should've had at least the option for more traditional controls. nintendo should expand retro, an amazingly talented studio, so they have several teams with at least one full team working on a stunning, innovative, more traditional, first person 'all out guns blazing' shooter. also nstc, which i know has been recently improved, should be working on a top of the range AAA fps. since playstation doesn't have a killer exclusive fps franchise (at the moment) nintendo should be preparing to define revolution, and its controller, with amazing internally developed fps games to convince the current gamers why revolution will be the primary console of choice for this genre. it will go a long way to re-establishing nintendo outside japan.

3rd party - more deals for exclusives or at least timed exclusives and a bigger marketing push to associate 3rd party software with nintendo (as above).

nintendo has done well in japan making good relations with so many developers a similar attitude to form close relationships with developers outside japan is necessary.
 
Let me quote these points to strengthen them :P

Nintendo Wifi connection is brilliant, and has potential to be better.. that needs pimping. Gaybrush, wheres the European wifi site incidentally? That being late kinda took the shine off the launch of it for me.
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Yes. Need that site :(

Would it really be so bad to see some of the Japanese ads on TV? I know Nintendo has seperate advertising deals per region and stuff, but having seen some of the Japanese ads over the years, they're mad to not at least use some of them.
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Recent favorites include the japanese animal crossing adds. I'd like to see them here even though they only have japanese people in them.

I personally wanna see Revolution called Nintendo Entertainment System. I don't mind if Revolution is the final name, but I just think that'd be awesome. Its so many Nintendo systems in one, I just think its quite suitable.
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Yes, that would be awesome. However, how you get around the NES/Famicom issue I don't know.

The GB Micro 20th anniversary ads are chock full of nostalgia. The packaging of the Famicom Micro matches the theme. This is something the other guys can't do. Nintendo have 20 years of heritage to draw on, and they barely ever do it. Even the simple touches like the 'coin' sound when the Nintendo logo appears... brand reinforcing.
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Yes, you wouldn't believe how big retro gaming really is. There are a lot of people out there that grew up with nintendo but have completely given up on videogames. I actually see them go out and buy DSes for Mario Kart, so I guess nintendo is on the right track here.

really it comes down to appealing to the masses with sports and racing trash, in the same league to the sorts of games EA churns out.
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I disagree a bit on this one. Being swamped by this sort of game made many people quit gaming alltogether. I actually think there is a large market of ex-gamers waiting for alternatives (as outlined above).
 
By and large, Nintendo's games weren't as good as previous generations. If it wasn't for Resident Evil and Phantasy Star Online I wouldnt have played my Gamecube half as much as I have.

Nintendo have no idea how to sell to massmarket idiots like Sony does.

Bad to non-existant advertising.

Console design (which I loved, handle and all) left people cold, and a ned/ chav wouldn't be seen dead with a purple console.

Didn't have a system seller title through out its life. N64 had GoldenEye, Mario and Zelda. PS2 had GTA and GT3/4. Xbox had Halo.

No DVD playback hurt them.

Needed more generic crap that sells.

Store position.
 
Great thread by the way, A thing I forgot but other users didn't is the shelf space.

for example, the VERY DAY the PSP launched over here in Holland, two of the largest audio & electronics stores (Free Record Shop & Media Markt) literary cut the DS's shelf space in HALF and used it all for nothing more than 200 copies of Ridge Racers, this is just something that hurts sales directly.

It hasn't changed since by the way, even UMD movies have more shelf space than gamecube & ds games have COMBINED in most stores nowadays.
 
so many good replies all saying the things i really wanted to say in my reply but failed to due to this stupid cold i have causing my head to feel like its full of cotton wool...

One thing i would add is that the DS seems to be doing well inspite of the lack of retail support / shelf space / location in the back of every damn game shop you care to mention!

This should be quite gratifying to you guys as it clearly means people like the machine and what you are doing with it.. but really you should be asking how much BETTER it could be doing if you pushed it harder at retail. Get ya thumbs out!
 
I thought the marketing at launch was very good for the Gamecube with some excellent ads but most of the marketing after launch was pretty poor.

The colour/design was a problem,

the fact that 3rd party multiformat games nearly always came to the GC last,

very long waits for certain games (or games not released in Europe at all),

the lack of dvd playback was a problem with some consumers,

the lack of demo pods when compared to its rivals was and still is a problem,

lack of retail support and shelf space was and is a problem (some retailers actively discouraging people from buying the GC and you would barely think any games were availble for the system going by shelf space)

(lack of shelfspace is also a major problem with the DS IMO, most of the retailers I go to have around 20 to 30 PSP games + movies on top of that, compared with 10 or less DS games and once again a severe lack of demo pods, it's no wonder software fails to chart when few stores a decent selection of games. If you walked into most retailers you would think the DS was a major flop considering the lack of games there appear to be)

lack of advertising for big games (I barely saw any ads for Zelda at all)

lack of GTA, which (right or wrongly) is pretty much the biggest game there is at the moment (at least see if you cn get them to make Grand Theft Wario for the Revolution).


In short spend more money on retail space/support and when you have a good game advertise it.

Oh..and make sure Revolution is launched in 2006 in Europe (as opposed to March 2007) :D
 
Some really good points in here (some that I hadn't thought of/realised either) that will be included in the presentation - thanks to everyone that's replied, any further thoughts are welcome. We are still at a stage where we can feedback to NCL and potentially affect their product planning, and believe me their attitude toward Europe has changed dramatically recently, especially given the success of DS here.

FYI the European Nintendo WiFi Connection website will go up at some point this afternoon or tomorrow - certainly by close of play
 
1) No GTA

2) No Pro Evo

3) Understated marketing... Children and long-time gamers noticed the Gamecube. PS2/Xbox's target casual 20 somethings probably didn't. If Cube had been advertised in same way as DS, ie sponsoring a large proportion of late-night Channel 4 comedy-typ-e-stuff, I reckon it could have captured more of that lucrative market.

4) Super Mario Sunshine was a significant dampener on fanboys expectations right from the early days. The same goes for Wave Race Blue Storm being almost the same game as Wave Race 64...

5) GC exclusives, however good, didn't appeal to the heart of the typical Max Payne playing PS2 owner. Metroid, Pikmin etc are relatively sophisticated concepts that you can't sell easily via the blurb on the back of a box. But TBH, if Nintendo had strayed too far from these original ideas, it may have alienated its hardcore fanbase; and fared even less well in the long term.

6) No DVD Playback. That must have had a big effect earlier in the gen. If you're not willing to spend all your disposable income on stacks of hardware, the choice was simple. The GC has never competed for the substantial market that believes one box under the telly is sufficient (ie normal people, and geeky children's normal parents).

7) Nintendo was directly competing against Microsoft and Sony. Even if it had a product that was indisputably superior in every way, it would still have been a struggle to come out on top. I'd imagine Nintendo couldn't afford to match either of those two's marketing budgets, and cetainly couldn't recoup that expense when selling a distinctly less mainstream product.

8) Resident Evil 4 was too late, and not exclusive enough. As I saw it, that was the final opportunity for hardware sales, and it wasn't pushed hard enough. Legendary franchise. Superbly crafted game. That was definitely the shot to penetrate the mainstream, but by that point, most interested parties had bonded with their PS2/Xbox, or were eyeing up and budgeting for PSP/DS/Xbox360 etc...
 
Gaybrush Threepio said:
Some really good points in here (some that I hadn't thought of/realised either) that will be included in the presentation - thanks to everyone that's replied, any further thoughts are welcome. We are still at a stage where we can feedback to NCL and potentially affect their product planning, and believe me their attitude toward Europe has changed dramatically recently, especially given the success of DS here.

FYI the European Nintendo WiFi Connection website will go up at some point this afternoon or tomorrow - certainly by close of play
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Great news. Make 'em do HD, make 'em embrace the 2nd party model even more and make 'em buy more developers with all that cash :)

Glad to hear that the communication has improved that way, I heard that NoA oftentimes learns things from NCL press releases which, really, is no good at all.
 
Restocking popular titles is a major problem that NOE's got which has got to affect sales to a small degree.

Often, something sells out and it takes weeks and weeks and weeks for a reprint to happen. It's happened with all sorts of "hot" titles at launch that I can remember (MGS:TT, FF:CC, RE4, Harvest Moon), and I know people who have been put off and bought other games because they just couldn't buy what they wanted on the launch weekend and by the time it was back in stock again, they had moved on.

And once again it seems we're in the same boat with the USB wifi dongle (had an Amazon UK order placed for weeks and did they manage to ship me one on day one? Of course not). Sort that out next-gen please as it's REALLY annoying.
 
Nathan Barley said:
8) Resident Evil 4 was too late, and not exclusive enough. As I saw it, that was the final opportunity for hardware sales, and it wasn't pushed hard enough. Legendary franchise. Superbly crafted game. That was definitely the shot to penetrate the mainstream, but by that point, most interested parties had bonded with their PS2/Xbox, or were eyeing up and budgeting for PSP/DS/Xbox360 etc...
Click to expand...
I think RE0 killed RE4 on the gamecube. It was not that good of a game and it gave the series a bit of a viewtiful joe syndrom. Too many too quickly.
 
Threepio,

what exactly are you in charge of changing for the next generation? (or; what do you do at Nintendo) I've been wondering since before the revolution unveiling but never got to know what you do over there.
 
Gaybrush Threepio said:
Some really good points in here (some that I hadn't thought of/realised either) that will be included in the presentation - thanks to everyone that's replied, any further thoughts are welcome. We are still at a stage where we can feedback to NCL and potentially affect their product planning, and believe me their attitude toward Europe has changed dramatically recently, especially given the success of DS here.

FYI the European Nintendo WiFi Connection website will go up at some point this afternoon or tomorrow - certainly by close of play
Click to expand...


cool.

i'll also agree with the fact that nintendo have ZERO appealing third party exclusives as mentioned. Not even exclsuives, but major games like GTA and pro evo are only seeing the light of day on Sony and microsoft machines.

i mean, there's a reason many major retailers have stopped providing floor space for the gamecube.

most casuals will want one console to play all their favourite games. the xbox and ps2 are the closest to that. short of adding nintendo games they get everything. nintendo needs to work on that aspect.

you guys say its all about that games but your major console struggles to see more than 5 decent games in every two months here. you can only sell a console on it's software at the end of the day.

so as much as you guys may believ the revo will take over, it won't happen unless you get a consistant release of games that take advantage of the hardware presented.

makes it easier for lowly retail guys like me to sell your box. :P
 
Three problems, IMO

Image and complete lack of presence on the high street

Variety of games. A lot of Nintendo games are universal but they are all far too similar in style - I'm bored of the same cartoony, super cute graphical style of Nintendo games

Advertising...complete lack of advertising. I'm a big fan of the GC but there's been so many releases that I didn't know about because they just weren't advertised. If a gamer like me doesn't know about big releases, then how will the mass market?
 
elostyle said:
I think RE0 killed RE4 on the gamecube. It was not that good of a game and it gave the series a bit of a viewtiful joe syndrom. Too many too quickly.
Click to expand...

You can't blame RE0. It was a leftover from the N64 era that just so happened to get carried over to the GC.

RE4's lower sales can be directly contributed to the PS2 announcement before the GC release.
 
You seem to advertise the system in its early months and then forget about it. Hell, I saw multiple adverts for Eternal Darkness but not a single ad for Wind Waker, Metroid Prime 2 or RE4. Also, Nintendo's lack of effort to really push the little cube to its limits. Where as MS really showed off the systems power through a bunch of 1st party games Nintendo left it to others and thats not good enough.

But the biggest problem was not one exclusive FPS or driving game. MS has Forza, PGR3 and Halo. Sony has Gran Turismo. Nintendo has diddly squat in this area.
 
There are quality games (RE4, Fire Emblem), but no quantity (a handful of titles each month and sometimes not even that) and definitely not as varied as the PS2 lineup (though imo more than xbox). Need more games to choose from - get some 3rd party support.

Perceived kiddy image - the average gamer is NOT 14, but well into their 20s. Target the people with actual disposable income. Older gamers prefer something which looks cool, even if it doesn't affect gameplay at all. GBA Micro is a step in the right direction but not nearly enough.

Online - Nintendo's online multiple support for the gamecube is an utter joke. The DS efforts so far could be better as well (What, no lobby or game search?). Take a good look at XBOX Live.
 
DSN2K said:
1.having the GC sitting at the back of GAME certainly did not help anything, Nintendo need to make more of an effort to make sure stores push the platform.
Click to expand...

That's open to a bidding process, believe it or not. Sony/MS/Nintendo buy the rights to certain positions in stores. I think for a short while Nintendo had a front corner in my local GAME.

To answer the original question: image, image, image, image. Sony's marketing just walks all over Nintendo's too. It's a bit of an extreme, but I never see local marketing for Nintendo stuff here in Ireland, whereas Sony goes out of its way to do so. Obviously the range of games needs to be better. GC seemed to be better from that perspective than the N64, but quantity also counts.
 
A big facet of the Xbox that can't be underestimated is it's modability and stuff like XBMC.

Other Xbox factors that I would point to:-

Halo
GTA Double pack
Pro Evo series

Generally speaking Xbox gets far more shelf space in the UK than Gamecube, it has more advertising also.
 
elostyle said:
2 names. Can't call it famicom here, can't call it NES there. Can't have 2 names in the internet days anymore.
Click to expand...
just call it Nintendo Entertainment System worldwide as far as I'm concerned.
 
Gaybrush Threepio said:
Some really good points in here (some that I hadn't thought of/realised either) that will be included in the presentation - thanks to everyone that's replied, any further thoughts are welcome. We are still at a stage where we can feedback to NCL and potentially affect their product planning, and believe me their attitude toward Europe has changed dramatically recently, especially given the success of DS here.

FYI the European Nintendo WiFi Connection website will go up at some point this afternoon or tomorrow - certainly by close of play
Click to expand...

Great news.
Can you say anything more about your presentation? You'll have to let us know how it goes :p
 
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