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Really early Rhapsodia/Suikoden Tactics thoughts

Bebpo

Banned
B000A6CIHM.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg


Played a couple of hours so far and yeah, it's sad but true that this Suikoden RPG is probably a better 'game' than the last two real Suikoden titles ^^;

The main thing that's really looking good is the overall depth of the battle system. Considering that the main Suikoden titles have always had really cookie-cutter battle systems I was kinda afraid this would be a simple SRPG with attack/defend/move and nothing else. But it's actually pretty cool.

Basically the main change is the elementals. Each character has an element that they are aligned to and when standing on a tile with their element they get beefed up atk/def and regain HP every turn! When standing on an opposing elemental tile they have downgraded atk/def and lose hp every turn! Now what makes this fun is EVERYONE has tile changing spells and items and they sure love using them. Even the little enemies will run at you and throw down a set of fire tiles (Assuming they are fire element) near you so that they'll be buffed up and regain hp per round. Attack spells often change the ground tiles after the attack too and these tile changes can be done through cheap items as well. If you cast a different element over an existing one it'll replace it so the system becomes a battle of controlling the elements.

There's also a nice Fire Emblem style talk option where if you move next to a unit and it shows a mouth you can talk to them and raise your friendship level. Raising it earns you dual-techs (and I think there are triple or quad ones later). These are really really powerful but can only be used once a map like team attacks in the previous Suikodens.

Magic is handled with the usual Suikoden system of x/x/x/x for lvl 1/2/3/4 magic. So you're limited to the amount of spells you can cast.

There's also a pretty good skill system where you can buy skills with skill points you get from battle and can increase their effective-ness over time.

One nice thing is the battle system tends to show you nice little help/user-friendly icons. For instance when you move a guy onto an elemental tile if it's a favorable elemental you'll get a smiling face icon and if it's an oppositional elemental it'll be a frown. You can also see which enemies will be able to attack you on there next turn if you move to that specific position. This stuff is pretty nice and saves a lot of time. Only non-userfriendly thing I've found so far is I can't figure out how to check what spells come with a rune in the rune shop when you buy them.

Another nice thing is that you gain exp when you attack and not just on kills. This is really useful in rpgs for bringing up low-level characters who aren't strong enough to kill enemies . I also hear that (haven't gotten far enough for it to appear yet) you can change party members during battle! So I'd guess you can sub in your low-level guys and have them level up a bit again easy enemies, then switch them out and bring in your high guys. This would also help alliviate the spell # restrictions.

In towns it has the traditional Suikoden feel. You can forge your weapons, attach runes, by items, or talk to people and hear rumors. You can also camp out to move forward the plot and your characters will all chat with each other.

The game seems fully-voiced in chapters so far (towns and camps are not voiced) which is more voice acting than the previous two games for sure.

Music is pretty good! The tunes tend to be remixes/arrangements of Suikoden classic songs (from I & II) and various songs from Suikoden IV. Not terrible amazing or anything, but it might be better sounding than III/IV.

Graphics are ummmmmm....odd. The 2d aspects (the character portraits) are really really nice. The 3d lego people are .......really really bad ^^; It works fine for battles when the camera is zoomed out (you can change the camera level with triangle) to normal or far positions because the animation is fine for an srpg. But in the cutscenes...wow it looks like crap. Buuuuut, during the cutscenes you tend to be looking at the boxes of dialogue which have the great 2d art faces accompanying them so I don't really even notice the 3d guys much so it's not a big deal. The voices and 2d art along with the text are enough to make it enjoyable.

The main plot seems interesting so I definitely think there could be potential but I'm too early to say if it meets it or not. One thing though, the game shows how forgettable the plot and characters of Suikoden IV are. Besides the main few from SIV I haven't recognized almost anyone, yet it seems the majority of people in this game are from SIV. Like I looked on the front cover of SIV after playing some Rhapsodia and I was like "oh, wow that guy I just met was in SIV!" but I don't remember them at all. For people who actually remember all the characters of SIV, they'll probably enjoy the game a lot more.

Only downside I see so far is the potential for unbalanced maps. Straight from the start strong boss characters can kill your average character in a single hit which is a bit annoying since the map sizes seem pretty big (about 45mins to an hour). You just gotta play really careful if you don't want deaths.

Anyhow, the game seems like a neat SRPG with an interesting original battle system and some good battle and customization depth. So maybe it won't be another average or worse Suikoden ^^;
 
yeah I remember when you said that rhapsodia could turn out to be better than both Suikoden III/IV, something about a recently graduate being in charge of the game something like that don't remeber it very well. Anyway seems you were right great impressions.

is this game coming to US?
 
Why is not called Genso Suikoden _________ (Tactics?) in Japan. Why Rhapsodia?

Thanks for the impressions!
 
Mejilan said:
Why is not called Genso Suikoden _________ (Tactics?) in Japan. Why Rhapsodia?

Thanks for the impressions!

From Ferricide's interview at gamespy.

GameSpy: I was curious why the Japanese title is Rhapsodia and not Suikoden Tactics?

Matsukawa: It comes from the nature of each market. When you say "Tactics" in Japanese as is, it gives a very difficult impression. It gives the impression of a full-scale war game. But when you say "Tactics" in North America or Europe, it's pretty much accepted as a tactical game.

As for the title, it could be either way, but if it could have been one title for worldwide, it would be better. The ideal situation is Suikoden: Rhapsodia because even though it's a tactical game it still carries the Suikoden personality and characteristics.
 
Mejilan said:
Why is not called Genso Suikoden _________ (Tactics?) in Japan. Why Rhapsodia?

Thanks for the impressions!

Because Suiko 4 bombed like a motherfucker and they don't want to run people away with the name. Nice spin on Matsukawa's part, though
 
well, damn you
now I'm gonna have to buy it :lol
 
I was gonna buy it regardless. I dunno, it just kinda irks me that it's not called Suikoden. I dunno why.
 
Greenpanda said:
Is this pretty linear like Fire Emblem, or is it something more like Tactics Ogre where there's a map? Just curious.

Very linear like FE. In fact the game feels a lot like FE GC meets FFT.
 
i didn't buy it.. but I want it so bad.. looks hot.. I just want an English version so I can play it all the way through..
 
Oh dear, this actually turned out well? I haven't liked an SRPG since FFT, maybe this will be "the one"
 
djtiesto said:
Is this game like Fire Emblem where once a guy is dead, they're gone for good?

Main story characters "retreat" and are still alive after battle. Only negative is your battle rank will lower. Other characters can die for good so you gotta be careful with them.

Himuro said:
How much characterization do they add really?

Don't know yet. I just gave it a couple hours and then went back to Grandia 3 which I'm in the middle of. After I finish G3 I'll play through Rhapsodia and will be able to give more comments.
 
Oh, and save importing? If so, do stats carry over or do you just unlock scenes or characters or something? (don't tell me, but I'm assuming hero and snowe)
 
Junko Kawano...is she pretty much in charge of everything Suikoden nowadays? Is she directing the fifth "main" Suikoden, for example?
 
Tabris said:
What?! No headquarters.

What about recruiting/108 characters?

I know there's not 108 stars (I don't think this is considered a Suikoden game proper, could be wrong about that though). I'm pretty sure there's something like 52 or 54 people you can get.
 
Kiriku said:
Junko Kawano...is she pretty much in charge of everything Suikoden nowadays? Is she directing the fifth "main" Suikoden, for example?


I'm pretty sure she has nothing to do with part 5. Atleast I'm praying so because she sucks ass.
 
Brian Fellows said:
I'm pretty sure she has nothing to do with part 5. Atleast I'm praying so because she sucks ass.

She made Shadow of Destiny. She does not 'suck ass'. Just because Suikoden IV was plagued by newbie programmers who didn't know how to code collision detection does not mean she's some terrible director. Suikoden IV also had the budget of like a resturaunt dinner.

I'm sure she'll shine again when she gets some decent staff.
 
SIV actually did some things right in some regards though. It knew how to incorporate lots of characters into the story without making it unwieldy, it had a very nice atmosphere that remained true to SI and SII but had its own flavor, and it had some great characters. I also liked the idea of a mobile headquarters. It's just a shame Lazlo ran like he crapped his pants.
 
Thanks Himuro!

I'm mad mastering my Suikoden 4 game for this.

Getting all my characters to 60+ with amazing equipment and such.

I'll have to check the suikosource forums to read bluemoon's impressions.
 
Cool. Thanks.

By the way, does save importing bring along character stats also or just for unlocking whatever 108 stars brings you (assuming hero)?
 
Bebpo said:
She made Shadow of Destiny. She does not 'suck ass'. Just because Suikoden IV was plagued by newbie programmers who didn't know how to code collision detection does not mean she's some terrible director. Suikoden IV also had the budget of like a resturaunt dinner.

I'm sure she'll shine again when she gets some decent staff.



Forgive me if I'm not impressed.
 
I don't understand why Suikoden IV is so reviled. It didn't seem too promising at first, but it overcame its slow opening hours and started to become a really impressive experience about
when you are wrongly accused of murder and cast from the kingdom
. The encounter rate during sailing is irritating, but the battles are very quick.
 
Regarding Suikoden IV...

The problem is, the "liberation" sub-plot (every Suikoden has it) was very dull. Almost seemed to have been missing half the story. It would jump between liberating islands without anything connecting them in terms of plot. The "rune" plot was very interesting, but the player (or at least me) was very disconnected to the main character.

Combine that with annoying sailing aspects, only 4 characters in battle, short game length (shorter than Suikoden 1), high encounter rate and a generally bad 3d art style (the 2d was great) and you got a pretty poor game.

The saving grace of Suikoden 4 is Snowe, but again, like the "liberation" sub-plot, it just jumped between scenes without anything connecting them. They really should have went more into the Hero/Snowe story. Filled out that story along with more scenes connecting the liberation and we would have a good plot, as this would also fill out the main character more.

The "suikoden aspects" (headquarters, recruiting, etc) were pretty strong, but again, weaker than the other games.
 
Rhapsodia does such a great job of capturing what makes up Suikoden. After a half day of bash-my-head-on-the-wall-fuck-you-square-enix Code Age Commanders I spent like 8 hours straight relaxing to the music, art, and wonderful gameplay of Rhapsodia once again.

One thing that always made Suikoden special was the world. All the entries had this feel of being in a big world with hundreds of characters, various races, and multiple kingdoms. Rhapsodia gets this perfectly. I love how every town has their own unique items for sale and the feeling of sailing around looking for new allies to join your party. Even though it doesn't have the usual 108, it's still just as satisfying each time you get a new member. And the game really makes you want to use them all because of their slight differences.

Best thing is the mid-battle conversations that affect friendship level between characters and give birth to new group attacks. Rhapsodia really makes me appriciate the cast of Suikoden IV. Sure IV might've had some weak gameplay, but the 108 characters this time around actually contained dozens of really likeable fun characters.

Rhapsodia will do a good job at getting every Suikoden fan to start anticipating V whether they liked 3/4 or not.
 
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