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Really really REALLY late to the party: ICO.

V

Vlad

Member
While I'm pretty sure that I'm nowhere near finished with the game yet (so no spoilers, please), I just had to bring up how much I'm loving the game so far. I just got past the part where you get the reflector to shine light on the big orb on one side of that huge gate, and I'm constantly amazed at how good some of these environments look. I love how even though most of the areas use pretty similar colors, it's still wonderful to look at due to the lighting, or just the way the room's laid out.

One thing that I'm amazed at and haven't seen mentioned at all before is how awesome the camera system is. I've always hated the fact that ever since the advent of 3d gaming, we've often had to spend quite a lot of time adjusting the camera. While I'm sure it's a lot harder to have a camera in a 3d game keep up than it is in a 2d one, I'm always disappointed that recent games often require you to be constantly babysitting the camera in order to see where you're going. In Ico, however, the only time I have ever messed with the camera has been to just admire the surrounding area. I've never had to tweak it to see where I was going or find the platform I had to jump to. Sometimes it even gives you subtle clues as to what you're supposed to be doing next. For example, when I got to the part with the windmill, I spent a little time trying to figure out how to get to the top of it, then I realized that the camera was swinging around at a certain point not only to give me a bit of a neat view of the spinning windmill blades, but to also say "hey, maybe you want to try jumping on those".

The one thing that's bugging me a bit so far is the fighting. While it's not hard or anything, it tends to drag on a bit long. What's really funny is that I've seen POP nailed more for the fighting segments, and while there are similarities, at least you can kill the monsters in one hit in PoP. In ICO, you've got to spend a bunch of time whacking them with a stick before they finally go down. The sword I just got does seem to be helping that out quite a bit, though....

Gotta get back to playing now... I need to figure out what I'm supposed to do with this waterfall....
 
G

ge-man

Member
Vlad--I feel you on the fighting. That was low point for me. I can understand that making an ultra sophisticated system would seem out of place in a story about a young boy, but even thing I couldn't completely get over it. I especially hated being knocked down by shadow creature and watching the boy reeling on the ground for what seemed like an eternity.
 
W

Wellington

BAAAALLLINNN'
Bregor said:
ICO gets my vote for best game of this generation (thus far).
Click to expand...

Agreed. I have been kicking around the idea of playing through it again, but now with the GA ESPN games going on I don't know how much time I can set aside for it.
 
P

Pug

Member
ICO is a game with great atmosphere which not many games manage to get within even 10% of. Problem for me with the game was the puzzles which had all be done a million times before and meant I flew through the game in no time. There was very little challenge in the game and thus it felt a bit flat. The fighting was okay as it used the sense of saving another character to great effect. Its a good game but its far from being the best game this gen by a long shot for me.
 
L

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
I must say that I thought puzzles in Ico were quite imaginative, and since they've often been based on character interaction, I don't remember them being used in a game before (Maybe Zelda? I've never rally played it too much...) and I've really played tons and tons of adventure games of all kinds. Really, what are those 'millions' of games that had puzzles like that?

Oh, and Vlad, what dark10x said is correct :)
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Pug said:
ICO is a game with great atmosphere which not many games manage to get within even 10% of. Problem for me with the game was the puzzles which had all be done a million times before and meant I flew through the game in no time. There was very little challenge in the game and thus it felt a bit flat. The fighting was okay as it used the sense of saving another character to great effect. Its a good game but its far from being the best game this gen by a long shot for me.
Click to expand...

What are those games that have done it a million times before? Unlike Marco, I HAVE played most of the Zelda games...and those puzzles are all quite different (even when you have a partner with you during the last two Wind Waker dungeons). If it was just you that needed to navigate the world, it would be different...but the addition of Yorda (helping someone through the world) really changed it up. The puzzles were not difficult, but they were interesting and unique.
 
F

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
I absolutely loved the puzzles in ICO - particularly because not a single one felt out of place. In stark contrast to experiences with vast majority of game puzzles I have, where puzzles you encounter are so obviously nothing but plot or game devices that make little or no real sense from the perspective of the world you're supposed to be immersed in.

There's so very few games that take this to the level of ICO (Another World was one), that anytime one comes along I'm charmed by it all over again.

And ICO is probably the only game where I still find myself just stopping and looking around the scenery a lot of the time while playing, as if I was wandering around in a real magical place like that...

Btw Vlad,
two tips about making fights shorter - kill the small crawling spiders first, they are one hit kills, but if you let them run around they will eventually grow into big enemies that take longer to kill.
And second, most fights can be bypassed by running with Yorda to to the door she opens which kills all enemies instantly.
 
P

Pug

Member
Dark, Vlad state one very obvious been there done that puzzle in his little synopsis, the reflection puzzle. Turn the dishes etc,etc. There was the Bomb puzzle the bridge/lift puzzle, all been done. As I said it doesn't detract to much from a game which is still very atmospheric and original.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Pug said:
Dark, Vlad state one very obvious been there done that puzzle in his little synopsis, the reflection puzzle. Turn the dishes etc,etc. There was the Bomb puzzle the bridge/lift puzzle, all been done. As I said it doesn't detract to much from a game which is still very atmospheric and original.
Click to expand...

SOME puzzles maybe, but not all...and really, they haven't been done THAT often.
 
P

P90

Member
Ico is the equivalent of DOA3: VERY pretty and boring. Ico gets thumbs up for art and atmosphere. Thumbs down for game play.
 
V

Vlad

Member
Chugging right along in the game... just got to the part where you get seperated from Yorda after leaving the castle.

As far as the puzzles go, I haven't found any of them to be all that difficult, probably because they all are pretty logical. One of my favorite puzzles so far was where you had to swing on the chain to knock the bridge down in the area with the water tower. I spent a good amount of time wandering around the area trying to figure out how to lower the bridge. I tried different camera angles to see if there was a switch nearby, even though the bridge didn't look mechanically operated or anything. I tried tossing bombs at anything that looked signifigant, etc etc.

The funny thing was, the whole time I was doing that, I knew that I wouldn't be successful, because the puzzles in the game have (so far) been the kind where once you realize what the correct course of action is, you're 100% sure of it because it just makes perfect sense.

As soon as I realized that the chain that I had seen almost half an hour ago was situated right by the non-mechanical bridge, it all made sense.

Now, I just need to figure out where to go now....
 
M

MassiveAttack

Banned
P90 said:
Ico is the equivalent of DOA3: VERY pretty and boring. Ico gets thumbs up for art and atmosphere. Thumbs down for game play.
Click to expand...
P90 - back on the ICO-hatin' tip. But you're consistent and I respect that. Really.

Here's a thought:

ICO & Panzer Dragoon Saga = Connection?

I met with Manabu Kusunoki at Artoon (director of the PD series at Team Andromeda) a year ago and asked him if ICO (which he loves) reminded him of Panzer Dragoon Saga. He looked at me a little strangely and then smiled. He said, "Yes, the atmosphere of both games feels similar to me and so does the ending."

Something to think about even though they are entirely different genres.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
P90 said:
Ico is the equivalent of DOA3: VERY pretty and boring. Ico gets thumbs up for art and atmosphere. Thumbs down for game play.
Click to expand...

Good lord, what is wrong with the gameplay? Must there be dialog trees, menus, and complex huds in every game these days to be in the running for "good gameplay"?

What exactly is wrong with the gameplay. It is simple and pure, yet works beautifully.
 
A

Ar_

Member
ico08.jpg


Simple gameplay on purpose.

Combat took a little too long, puzzles didnt shock fir their cleverness, and there was definitely toom to improve the gameplay. But overall I found it good enough and nicely fitting, considered the main purpose was to experience the world.

Also, it never became positively annoying, for me. Cant say the same of many other highly rated adventure games of this gen (Zelda WW stealth dungeon, PoP's spectacular but poorly playable puzzles, list goes on).
 
D

Dilbert

Member
I've never played ICO, but I'd like to give it a try at some point.

However, I seem to remember hearing that playing it on a DLP (converts everything to 720p) would ruin the visual effects because of how they were drawn. Is that true?
 
V

Vlad

Member
Well, just finished the game. I gotta say that it was a bit on the short side. The clock on my last save reads around 4 hours, 40 minutes. There was probably about 20-30 minutes of gametime between that and when I beat the game.

That said, it may have only been a little over five hours, but they were a good five hours. While I would have liked for the game to be a bit harder, I still felt satisfied, probably mainly due to the fact that the final boss battle, while a bit easy, looked absolutely wonderful. I loved the effects, and actually having background music after a whole game of none really made it stand out.

Another great thing about the last battle was what I mentioned earlier about the game making the situation known to you without hitting you over the head with it...
From the first time she attacks you, you can see that A) your sword will block the attack and B) so will the two statues in the room. Also, once you hit her once and lose your sword, you just know from the way it was all set up that you're gonna be screwed if she hits you without it (a fact I found out for myself when I was too slow picking it up on my first try :)). If this were any other game there'd be some sort of narrative like "Hey, it looks like the queen's attack might be stopped by those statues!"

Another thing I noticed...
Did the monsters always turn into the forms of a humanoid with horns when you beat them and I just notice it at the end because of the room that last fight with them took place in, or was it special for that room?
.

That reminds me, that's another thing that I really dug about Ico. I loved the fact that the game managed to tell a story without resorting to listening to characters drone on and on. The story was told mostly through actions and details, with just a hint of dialog at the end.
 
L

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
thing I noticed...Did the monsters always turn into the forms of a humanoid with horns when you beat them and I just notice it at the end because of the room that last fight with them took place in, or was it special for that room?.
Click to expand...

In that last room they are coming out of sarcophages, just like the one you fell out off when you started the game (that room is actually the same room where you started the game) As you can see now, they are the shadows of children who were caged there once, just like you were. They come out of their cells, run around and play (they wouldn't even hurt you in that room) Other shadowy monsters that have attacked you over the course of the game are likely those same children, just somehow mutated over the ages of confinement and influence of whatever evil got them there. I must say I felt really bad when, at the middle of the 'fight' in that last room with shadows, I realized what was that that I was so happily smashing just moments ago...
 
T

totoro'd

Member
Awesome game, one of my all-time faves. Only gripes: too short and no replayability. But amazing experience, and I agree with the Panzer Dragoon Saga similiarities. ICO looks like Edge, Yorda looks a bit like Azel, and the whole atmosphere thing.

I even thought the game covers (American) look similiar.
 
P

P90

Member
Massive: I consider it the voice of reason. ;) I praise Ico for its art, but darn, playing the game was a chore.

dark10x: the gameplay was a chore, like mowing the lawn. The pace was poor. Control was rather sloppy. The entire game was a drone for me.
 
V

Vlad

Member
Marconelly said:
In that last room they are coming out of sarcophages, just like the one you fell out off when you started the game (that room is actually the same room where you started the game) As you can see now, they are the shadows of children who were caged there once, just like you were. They come out of their cells, run around and play (they wouldn't even hurt you in that room) Other shadowy monsters that have attacked you over the course of the game are likely those same children, just somehow mutated over the ages of confinement and influence of whatever evil got them there. I must say I felt really bad when, at the middle of the 'fight' in that last room with shadows, I realized what was that that I was so happily smashing just moments ago...
Click to expand...

I figured that out on my own, actually...
Do they not even bother attacking you, though? I never gave them the chance, and I figured that they were always jumping away because of my new one-hit-kill sword. I did notice that they spent a lot of time just dancing in random circles sometimes. I guess I chalked it up to weird AI out of habit or something.

I'll have to check later on tonight to see if the monsters always showed their true forms when they died....

TGS 2004 = NICO
Click to expand...

They're making a sequel?? Awesome!
 
R

RiZ III

Member
SCEE mentioned that they do not plan to release a sequel to ICO in 2004. According to Amazon.com, the ICO sequel NICO was originally scheduled for a November 2004 release in Europe.
 
N

nitewulf

Member
He said, "Yes, the atmosphere of both games feels similar to me and so does the ending."
Click to expand...

yeah, i mentioned this before. one of the reasons why i like ico. its a wonderful little game, would have been one of my best this gen had it contained a deeper combat system.
 
L

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Hate to tell you this, but that made no sense...
Click to expand...
PAL version has several nice easter eggs that USA version doesn't. One of them is the secret weapon that looks like a light saber from Star Wars.
 
L

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
I have also heard (didn't have a chance to check yet) that they have polished out the framerate completely (used to dip a bit in 1-2 places in US version) and introduced some more detail in graphics here and there (apparently, the fabric on the windmill's wings flatters in the wind while it's static in US version (and it is static, in US version, that I can confirm)) and one puzzle has been changed even on first playthrough. Also, there's a watermelon easter egg at the very end of the game (during the scene past the credits)
 
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