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[CassiusLonginus]

If the technology was that advanced, you'd think Microsoft would have showcased it by now in a first-party title. I suspect Kinect 2.0 will mainly be used for UI interaction.

Totally agree,

I found it really disappointing and highly suspect that MS showed NOTHING at E3 to justify Kinect 2.0

I've never been opposed to motion gaming as much of the gaming community seems to be (I don't think it is something that should be the norm, but it can provide some interesting experiences). For that reason I was really interested to see what MS would do to showcase Kinect 2.0, but we saw nothing but "Xbox On" and "TV"...

When Ryse was moved from 360 to X1 I thought that they were going to use it to prove Kinect 2 would deliver more than the original Kinect did. Sadly they seem to have reworked Ryse for gamepad use without actually making it more interesting than a Kinect game for the 360.

All I see in Ryse right now is left overs of concepts based on motion just adapted to buttons last minute.

Anyway, the lack of any actually convincing Kinect 2.0 software really makes it seem like MS just wanted to get the Kinect in houses for the voice and occasional motion control of the OS. While using it for some data mining for advertisement and whatnot.

 

[Iknos]

Wow. Kinect 2 costs that much? What was MS thinking?

Still surprised people are confused about this.

It's about how a person interacts with their television screen.

Kinect is a replacement for the keyboard and mouse. It replaces a remote control and it replaces the controller.

The PS4 is for hardcore gamers...it doesn't need something like the Kinect.

The One is for everyone else including hardcore gamers. It needs both the controller and the Kinect.

It's like questioning Apple or Nintendo when they decided to make their portable machines touch screen. It jacked up the cost of their products but they have a very good reason for it.

How do you interact with a tablet...touch. How do you interact with a computer...keyboard and mouse. How do you interact with your TV...well controllers have been crappy for browsing the web and using apps...this is where Kinect comes in.

Can't believe I'm the first person to explain it in this thread...figured there are many more on this forum who knows a bit about this stuff.

 

[Meia]

Still surprised people are confused about this.

It's about how a person interacts with their television screen.

Kinect is a replacement for the keyboard and mouse. It replaces a remote control and it replaces the controller.

The PS4 is for hardcore gamers...it doesn't need something like the Kinect.

The One is for everyone else including hardcore gamers. It needs both the controller and the Kinect.

It's like questioning Apple or Nintendo when they decided to make their portable machines touch screen. It jacked up the cost of their products but they have a very good reason for it.

How do you interact with a tablet...touch. How do you interact with a computer...keyboard and mouse. How do you interact with your TV...well controllers have been crappy for browsing the web and using apps...this is where Kinect comes in.

Can't believe I'm the first person to explain it in this thread...figured there are many more on this forum who knows a bit about this stuff.

The problem is if this is their goal, they have done absolutely *nothing* to assuage my concerns about the device. Controllers are only "crappy" for browsing the web and using apps because they refuse to let us use the tried and true keyboard/mouse on the system. That's working around a problem they themselves created with a solution that so far, not only has little to no actual gaming value from what we've seen, but now we know also made the system cost more than it should have.


This isn't like a touch device and how intuitive it can be to get what you want, which is a direct parallel to a mouse click: We don't know how kinect is supposed to do anything, and I haven't seen one thing that makes me think it's better than what's currently out there. That's a very real problem.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Still surprised people are confused about this.

It's about how a person interacts with their television screen.

Kinect is a replacement for the keyboard and mouse. It replaces a remote control and it replaces the controller.

Hey I remember you. Weren't you the "Microsoft invented everything first" guy?

That said this isn't anything like a mouse replacement with touch. It's not a 1:1 update. Until it can mimic every feature of the controller perfectly its not a replacement.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Still surprised people are confused about this.

It's about how a person interacts with their television screen.

Kinect is a replacement for the keyboard and mouse. It replaces a remote control and it replaces the controller.

The PS4 is for hardcore gamers...it doesn't need something like the Kinect.

The One is for everyone else including hardcore gamers. It needs both the controller and the Kinect.

It's like questioning Apple or Nintendo when they decided to make their portable machines touch screen. It jacked up the cost of their products but they have a very good reason for it.

How do you interact with a tablet...touch. How do you interact with a computer...keyboard and mouse. How do you interact with your TV...well controllers have been crappy for browsing the web and using apps...this is where Kinect comes in.

Can't believe I'm the first person to explain it in this thread...figured there are many more on this forum who knows a bit about this stuff.

The gamble is whether or not people will care, however.

I don't think gesture control or voice control is ultimately a worthwhile method of interface in front of the TV, nor does it really make things substantially easier than simply using a controller.

I see a lot more utility in something like the DS4's touchpad for interface than Kinect.

Ultimately I see Kinect 2.0 being forced into the Xbox One and hardly ever used for the vast majority of people.

 

[Steelyuhas]

What the hell? Jesus man. 90 percent of people look at a video game console as being just that, a box that plays games. Why are you so fired up? People can vote with their wallets and decide for themselves without being insulted. "Petulant whiny little baby" Fucking nice.

Well that's not true, more time is spend on entertainment than gaming on online Xbox 360's.

 

[Ishan]

No I agree the technology is not advanced enough. To put it in perspective that would be a good research prospect for someone in academia to explore how we can leverage it . And from experience it's atleast 10 years from research to products . But I'm not into what ms has developed now . And in say in 5 years tech moves fast . Ms made a call for the future ... Before the time but it does have potential .... I want to put it out that I started on the snes went to the ps (gt and MSG sold me) didn't buy ps2 moved to ps3 cause of uncharted . But as a student of tech ms is doing some very exciting things .

 

[BruiserBear]

Q: Was the family sharing how everyone imagined it to be like (sharing games with 10 people only 2 game play one at the same time) or was it glorified demos ?
A: It was for full games. Can't comment too much on this but its purpose was to eliminate the need to ever have to physically hand someone a game that you bought to share with them.

Knew it was fake right about there.

 

[wizzbang]

Seriously. Most unorganized garbage that millions of people just love.

^^^^^^ Yep, I've hostfiled the site, I detest it.
Thank fuck other websites just take the good stuff from it and share it elsewhere for me.

Also for the OP - the guy admitting PS4 has superior specs, wow. Is he looking to be fired? That's not the correct marketing speak to handle such an 'issue'

 

[Klocker]

Still surprised people are confused about this.

It's about how a person interacts with their television screen.

Kinect is a replacement for the keyboard and mouse. It replaces a remote control and it replaces the controller.

The PS4 is for hardcore gamers...it doesn't need something like the Kinect.

The One is for everyone else including hardcore gamers. It needs both the controller and the Kinect.

It's like questioning Apple or Nintendo when they decided to make their portable machines touch screen. It jacked up the cost of their products but they have a very good reason for it.

How do you interact with a tablet...touch. How do you interact with a computer...keyboard and mouse. How do you interact with your TV...well controllers have been crappy for browsing the web and using apps...this is where Kinect comes in.

Can't believe I'm the first person to explain it in this thread...figured there are many more on this forum who knows a bit about this stuff.

exactly

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Hey I remember you. Weren't you the "Microsoft invented everything first" guy?

That said this isn't anything like a mouse replacement with touch. It's not a 1:1 update. Until it can mimic every feature of the controller perfectly its not a replacement.

I think there was a reason he was juniored

Nothing against the guy but I seen some of his posts.

This thread has ran around the circles that I expected as well.

 

[ElTorro]

The gamble is whether or not people will care, however.

The main problem of the X1 is that I can do literally everything it does apart from games on my iPad. And I still can't see how browsing the web on my TV using my body/voice to scroll pages and "click" on links can be more comfortable and efficient than using my iPad.

In this respect, the Wii U might be even better positioned. But people don't seem to care. Why would I buy yet another device that can do internet/communication/TVGuide/etc. if my iPad (or any other tablet/smartphone) does all of this (and more) brilliantly?

 

[stryke]

Hey I remember you. Weren't you the "Microsoft invented everything first" guy?

Oh that thread was rich...

 

[opticalmace]

Oh that thread was rich...

Link?

 

[B.O.O.M]

Link?

I think it's this one

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=528726&highlight=

 

[rdrr gnr]

I think it's this one

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=528726&highlight=

That first page is a graveyard.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

I still don't buy the family sharing plan. DRM is designed to go against used games and then you could share a game with up to ten people? Bullshit.

Not sure why it's so hard to understand. DRM was built because MS was creating a system where you didn't need the physical disk after the first install. Now without DRM, one disk could go around to hundreds of houses without causing anyone any inconvenience if all it required was a one-time install without ever needing the disk again. It would be easier than pirating. But knowing that there is a sharing culture in the community, they decided on creating a family sharing plan, which was a nice way to circumvent physical disk sharing while maintaining their one-time install system without losing the concept of sharing completely.

Alas, I think the problem is that I've just explained it a whole lot better than MS has done yet.

 

[Demon Ice]

It was quite moot. One of our execs had mentioned a Sony dev came up to him at E3 and told him you won the games, we won the gamers.

Looooooooool I bet.


This didn't happen. This didn't happen harder than anything has ever not happened.

 

[Eyemus Lutt]

Alas, I think the problem is that I've just explained it a whole lot better than MS has done yet.

I stlll don't get what you're trying to say. Why would publishers agree for their games to be used by 10 different people when they complained when the PS3 let you do a similar thing with 5 people but had to reduce it down to 2; The sales of single player games would go down so fast it's not even funny.

 

[BigDug13]

Not sure why it's so hard to understand. DRM was built because MS was creating a system where you didn't need the physical disk after the first install. Now without DRM, one disk could go around to hundreds of houses without causing anyone any inconvenience. It would be easier than pirating. But knowing that there is a sharing culture in the community, they decided on creating a family sharing plan, which was a nice way to circumvent physical disk sharing while maintaining their one-time install system without losing the concept of sharing completely.

Alas, I think the problem is that I've just explained it a whole lot better than MS has done yet.

The fucked up thing that nobody has ever explained to me is why when Sony had a sharing plan which allowed 5 consoles to have the same content 7 years ago, publishers threw a fit until Sony reduced the total consoles to 2, yet 7 years later when Microsoft attempts to have this "really innovative sharing system that nobody has ever tried" and they tell us they were going to allow 10 people to have access to the entire game purchase with no time limit, people believed them and that they believed that suddenly publishers were cool with the same thing Sony tried 7 years prior.

None of it makes sense.

 

[Joco]

So if this is true (and I'm quite skeptical of the source), Kinect 2.0 cost nearly as much as the rest of the X1? Microsoft must be really

Spoiler

over-

confident that Kinect will make the console a success.

I'm still holding out hope for a Kinect-less model. Won't be purchasing the X1 unless I have the option to not use it at all.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

I stlll don't get what you're trying to say. Why would publishers agree for their games to be used by 10 different people when they complained when the PS3 let you do a similar thing with 5 people but had to reduce it down to 2; The sales of single player games would go down so fast it's not even funny.

The fucked up thing that nobody has ever explained to me is why when Sony had a sharing plan which allowed 5 consoles to have the same content 7 years ago, publishers threw a fit until Sony reduced the total consoles to 2, yet 7 years later when Microsoft attempts to have this "really innovative sharing system that nobody has ever tried" and they tell us they were going to allow 10 people to have access to the entire game purchase with no time limit, people believed them and that they believed that suddenly publishers were cool with the same thing Sony tried 7 years prior.

None of it makes sense.

Because on the One system, only one person apart from the game owner could play the game at any one time. Sony tried for 5 but was allowed 2.

 

[Eyemus Lutt]

Because on the One system, only one person apart from the game owner could play the game at any one time. Sony tried for 5 but was allowed 2.

But that would still mean that 10 people can play Bioshock Infinite one after another having only one person paying for the game.

 

[DonfatherBrooks]

I think a big part of the reason for kinect is Microsoft's plan to unify their products more closely like they started to with windows 8. Im almost certain after Build that MS is going to have the same App Store that windows 8 has on the xbox and instead of a touch interface use kinect instead. This will encourage more developers to write apps for windows 8 and gives the xbox a USP. VLC on your xbox etc.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

But that would still mean that 10 people can play Bioshock Infinite one after another having only one person paying for the game.

And disk sharing would allow more. Sony had both disk sharing and digital sharing which obviously pissed off publishers.

 

[danielcw]

But that would still mean that 10 people can play Bioshock Infinite one after another having only one person paying for the game.

Couldn't publishers opt out?



I also expected the list of 10 people to be static, as in the same 10 people are in your family, and you can't have 10 different people per game.
But that was, as far as i read never clarified.



In real live, as of right now, 10 people could play the same copy one after another too.

 

[MCD]

Don't have a reddit account so can someone ask him if X1 is really full region free?

Or is it up to the publishers like X360?

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

I'm glad to see a dev give such sensible and tempered impressions, rather than the usual salivating all over the console you get in most of these interviews.

Well done!

 

[RedAssedApe]

The example about the noise is weird. If its quiet why not just say its quiet and you can barely hear it when it's the only device on.

Saying three xbones are drowned out by a pc doesn't mean much to me since I've always equated pc gaming with loud gpus and psus. Granted I haven't been a pc gamer in years so maybe noise has been resolved with larger fans and different methods of passive cooling?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Q: Do you know anything about the rumor that Microsoft is upping the clock speed on the retail version? If you can't answer that, do you think that the Xbox One is at disadvantage with it's current specs compared to the PS4?

A: Can't comment on the rumor. The facts are on paper, the PS4 has better specs and the most you can debate is by how much. What I can tell you is I have played Forza, Killer instinct, and Ryse on the Xbox One. They look as good as the games I play on a high end PC. Ryse reminded me of darksiders II.

Always good to see some honesty.

As for Ryse being like Darksiders 2, damning with faint praise much? That's not a good comparison to make.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Actually, NM.

 

[opticalmace]

I think it's this one

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=528726&highlight=

...wow.

Also just noticed he got juniored for that thread.

 

[Jomjom]

Because on the One system, only one person apart from the game owner could play the game at any one time. Sony tried for 5 but was allowed 2.

You also left out that with the Sony gamesharing thing you had to essentially let people access your account, which makes it much tougher to do except with family or extremely good friends who have your absolute trust.

The Xbox One system allows you to pick any 10 people with no risk of having your account stolen, which makes it much easier to share.

 

[GoofsterStud]

The Xbox One system allows you to pick any 10 people with no risk of having your account stolen, which makes it much easier to share.

That was never confirmed.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Because on the One system, only one person apart from the game owner could play the game at any one time. Sony tried for 5 but was allowed 2.

Unofficially. Sony's 'game sharing' was, at least in my opinion, an unintended side effect, of a quickly put together and not very well thought out online account system.

 

[YouEnjoyMySelf]

Still surprised people are confused about this.

It's about how a person interacts with their television screen.

Kinect is a replacement for the keyboard and mouse. It replaces a remote control and it replaces the controller.

The PS4 is for hardcore gamers...it doesn't need something like the Kinect.

The One is for everyone else including hardcore gamers. It needs both the controller and the Kinect.

It's like questioning Apple or Nintendo when they decided to make their portable machines touch screen. It jacked up the cost of their products but they have a very good reason for it.

How do you interact with a tablet...touch. How do you interact with a computer...keyboard and mouse. How do you interact with your TV...well controllers have been crappy for browsing the web and using apps...this is where Kinect comes in.

Can't believe I'm the first person to explain it in this thread...figured there are many more on this forum who knows a bit about this stuff.

I never want to talk to my TV.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

Just saw this after watching EVO all day. Wow.

Admits PS4 is stronger.
Says everyone is working on something Kinect related.
Says the sensors for Kinect 2.0 cost almost as much as the console itself.

Well there goes the dream of people desperately hoping for a Kinect-less Xbone for $100 cheaper. That shit isn't going anywhere.

 

[Jomjom]

That was never confirmed.

I should have been more clear, I'm saying if it's how the Family Share supporters believe it would have been, that's how it would be.

Basically I'm saying that the PS3 gameshare and the supposed Xbone Family Share are two completely different things as gameshare was not even meant for you to share your games with your friends, but rather so you could play on two different consoles in case you had multiple in your home.

The Family Share plan has the blessing of MS for you to share your games with anybody you want around the world if MS is to be believed. That means the family share plan would have been much more accessible and more easily exploited than the PS3 gameshare ever was. So if gameshare already pissed off the publishers, imagine what the Family Share plan would have done.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I'm curious how this dev knows the relative cost of the Kinect vs. console, but has no knowledge of reported yield issues given the enormous impact of yields on cost (or knowledge of increased clock speeds, for that matter). That's a very odd set of data to have.

He might be a dev, but he's been coached by PR. It is pretty obvious.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Yeah, I think it's very likely this AMA is part of the same image rehab strategy that brought us the recent Whitten interview on IGN. The intent is obviously to humanize, pull back the grandiose claims and get people back on their side.

 

[Usobuko]

Yeah, I think it's very likely this AMA is part of the same image rehab strategy that brought us the recent Whitten interview on IGN. The intent is obviously to humanize, pull back the grandiose claims and get people back on their side.

If that's the case, their PR marketing finally took a turn for the good.

 

[Whiteshirt]

The main problem of the X1 is that I can do literally everything it does apart from games on my iPad. And I still can't see how browsing the web on my TV using my body/voice to scroll pages and "click" on links can be more comfortable and efficient than using my iPad.

In this respect, the Wii U might be even better positioned. But people don't seem to care. Why would I buy yet another device that can do internet/communication/TVGuide/etc. if my iPad (or any other tablet/smartphone) does all of this (and more) brilliantly?

Yep, that's exactly the problem. Any modern Android device can do the same shit the Xbox One can basically do through wireless streaming like Miracast. Ditto with any iOS device and AirPlay. And while you can't play Titanfall or Dance Central on either OS, these similarly priced devices have the benefit of portability and other basically essential functionality like being a telephone, decent camera or basic GPS system.

As "regressive" it may be, the PS4's touchpad seems to have more applicable OS functionality than the Kinect does simply because we know how well trackpads works in Mac OS. Outside of very simple commands (even then, things like Xbox On is barely useful), I can't see why I would use voice commands.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Yeah, I think it's very likely this AMA is part of the same image rehab strategy that brought us the recent Whitten interview on IGN. The intent is obviously to humanize, pull back the grandiose claims and get people back on their side.

I don't think you can call that IGN thing an interview, it reads as if Microsoft PR mailed the whole thing for IGN to copypasta into their website.

 

[Krilekk]

If Kinect 2 costs that much and still isn't able to recognize individual fingers something is off. If anything it should be cheaper because they don't have to buy the PrimeSense tech for Kinect 2 but developed their own solution. Having BOM that high for something that the core has shown absolutely zero interest in is setting themselfs up for disaster. Seems like X1 was developed when they were gloating over 18 million Kinect sold in three months. Too bad it didn't sell a lot after that aside from console bundles.

Also one of the reasons for 360 success was the two SKUs. Having one SKU at $299 has helped them a lot in getting a decent installed base. Yes it sucked for devs who wanted a mandatory HDD. But I've heard almost 1/3 of all 360 sold were "Arcade" models until the Slim launched. Going from $299 at the entry level to $499 is just a stupid stupid decision. Doing so when the opponent goes from $499 to $399 is even more stupid.

I guess they think they can do it. And maybe they can. Sony showed that a console can sell even at $599. They still managed to come out on top in worldwide numbers. Because of brand recognition. Xbox might be able to do exactly the same at least in the US. But they will fail even harder in Europe than with 360. And that's what I don't get. Instead of expanding their potential audience they are limiting it. All the while talking about a potential of 1 billion consoles next gen. Do they seriously believe people will buy a Skype box for $499 (powered by NSA)?

And already admitting limitations of the snap feature is ridiculous. With 3 GB of RAM for the OS the least I expect is that I can snap everything with everything. Well, they'll get rid of mandatory Kinect in early 2014 and sell X1 for $299. Might even take a little loss on the hardware and go to $249. But boy, how can they not see the massive bomba coming. Especially now with the NSA backlash.

 

[Alx]

The fucked up thing that nobody has ever explained to me is why when Sony had a sharing plan which allowed 5 consoles to have the same content 7 years ago, publishers threw a fit until Sony reduced the total consoles to 2, yet 7 years later when Microsoft attempts to have this "really innovative sharing system that nobody has ever tried" and they tell us they were going to allow 10 people to have access to the entire game purchase with no time limit, people believed them and that they believed that suddenly publishers were cool with the same thing Sony tried 7 years prior.

None of it makes sense.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original Sony system allowed 5 people to play the same game at the same time, without any restriction. And it was later reduced to 2 people.
From the few we know, the Microsoft system allowed 10 people to access a shared library, but a maximum of 2 people could play at the same time (the owner of the game, and a member of his "family"). In the end, it wouldn't hurt publishers any more than the current systems on PS3 and 360, where the limit is already at two simultaneous players.
Don't let the number 10 fool you, it always was sharing between 2 people, only not only the same 2.

I loved the idea of Steel Battalion, but without a controller it just flat out doesn't work. Kinect is too limited in it's requirements for me to even USE(room space, location, etc), and now I know their entire new system is based off of it!

Just to get a few things right :
- Steel Battalion did use a controller. Kinect was used for additional commands, only it wasn't very well thought (especially when the game designer tries to make you interact with levers and buttons, using a button-less sensor).
- The requirements for kinect2 are much less restrictive than those of kinect1. Unless you live in a cupboard, you should have enough room for it to work.

 

[shola]

When the poster says ps4 is more powerful, you call him an idiot for being straight forward When he says the kinect 2 is expensive and that family sharing was for full games he is then a liar.

 

[Alx]

The main problem of the X1 is that I can do literally everything it does apart from games on my iPad.

That's a funny example, because people had exactly the same objection against the iPad : "I can do everything it does (and much more actually) on my cheaper laptop, why would I need one ?".
It's all about convenience. If people find benefits to doing those things on a console+TV, they will buy it. If it's not better in any way, they won't.

I can see some benefits of doing a Skype call on the family screen (I remember as a kid the calls to Grandma where we had to take turn to grab the phone... would have been much better if she could have seen us, and all at the same time). If you're ordering a pizza, it's better to let everybody see the menu. On the other hand, I don't think there's such an appeal for generic internet browsing.
In the end it will depend on how people use it.

 

[Ushae]

Probably ended up with 2 pretty much identical machines with no defining features other than 1st party titles. Not sure if that is a good or bad thing in the long run.

Honestly I'm more than happy with the specs on both systems. The exclusives will look great and hopefully play great. I'm glad Kinect is in and differentiates the system from PS. And glad they both have such different controllers, so we can enjoy different high end experiences.

 

[Satchel]

Digital vs physical. How does that work?

Irrelevant.

You can lend a disc to as many people as you like and leave that game with them until completion. That means one less sale for the dev/pub. Lend it to 9 more over time and that's 10 potential sales gone. Hell, you can lend it to 50 people. You could only be in one family at a time with the sharing plan.

The only difference with the sharing plan was that the original user could play at all times along with one of the nominated 9.

Id say you would have also needed gold knowing Microsoft. They may have upped the price of gold and distributed some of that to the devs/pubs who nominated for the sharing plan. Similar to what Sony does with PS Plus fees? Or is that different?

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Personally I was a little surprised at the timeframe which we decided on the DRM reversal. I thought we didn't push on its benefits enough.The petition shows there are lots of people who want these benefits as much as I do and clearly our execs care or Marc Whitten wouldn't have referred to it in his IGN interview.

Fucking hell. The fact that he's even saying this shit anonymously makes me think he's actually speaking his mind and seriously believes this utter bullshit.

So basically it isn't a case of Microsoft's upper management trying to impose wildly anti-consumer shit on us, the fucking developers of the thing seem to be hitting that kool-aid too. This console is friggin' dangerous.