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Redfall developer working on U-turn for single-player always online restriction: "We listen."

Eddie-Griffin

Eddie-Griffin

Banned
https://www.eurogamer.net/redfall-d...rn-on-single-player-always-online-restriction
Redfall developer Arkane is "working actively" to remove the game's always-online requirement when playing strictly in single-player mode.

The vampire shooter's always-online restriction raised eyebrows when it was spotted last month.

Now, speaking to Eurogamer, game director Harvey Smith has revealed his team are now working to change how the game worked to make offline single-player possible.

As part of a lengthy interview which featured a deep discussion of Redfall's politics, I asked Smith his reaction to those who want to play fully offline in a world where most people's devices are typically connected to the internet.

"There are two ways developers could react to that, right?" Smith began. "They could say: 'Oh, my God, you're always online. If you get on your Steam, and it's not online, you freak out. If you get on your Xbox, and you can't get the latest patch, or see what your friends are doing, you freak out. You want to be always online!' But that response, I think, lacks empathy.

"There are people who live in places where there are outages or their broadband is shitty, or they're competing with their family members, because their mum's streaming a movie or their brother's on another device. And so I think it is a legitimate critique."

The other response, Smith continued, was to accept the reaction and find out if things can - at a late stage in development - be changed.

"We do take it with a lot of empathy," Smith said. "We listen. And we have already started work to address this in the future. We have to do some things like encrypt your save games and do a bunch of UI work to support it. And so we are looking into - I'm not supposed to promise anything - but we're looking into and working actively toward fixing that in the future."

Smith also went into more detail on why Redfall had been designed to be online in the first place - and it's not for the reason you might suspect.

"There's no store in the game, and there's no microtransactions," Smith told me, pre-empting any suspicion the game was always online so it could simply always be ready to sell you more stuff.

"You can find costumes and things like that in the world, those are yours. We do have a DLC plan - a couple of times we'll sell a bundle of stuff like guns, costumes, characters, you know, whatever. We're very excited about those things but it'll just be like DLC that you buy through Xbox or whatever. And there's the "Bite Back" Edition [of the base game] where you get some of that stuff for free. We had that plan with Dishonoured, we have that with every game we make."

So why be online if you're not with other people? Smith said the game was designed that way to better help Arkane understand how people were playing it, and when they got into difficulty.

"It allows us to do some accessibility stuff," Smith said. "It allows us for telemetry, like - if everybody's falling off ladders and dying, holy shit that shows up. And so we can go and tweak the ladder code. There are reasons we set out to do that that are not insidious."
Click to expand...

Looks like they want to avoid Xbox One pre-launch 2.0 it seems. I'm curious that if Microsoft didn't control the studio if they would have done this.

It's a very different tone from "You don't understand the complexities, it's not like flipping a switch" and "why would you live there?" or "We have a product for you" of yesteryear.

It's good to see that the devs are taking the complaints seriously. Also if they do it before print then that disc may not be 100% useless once the server goes down years from now. Which is probably the biggest issue with forcing the SP to be always online.

He doesn't promise anything though and mentions encryption and difficulties late-stage in doing so, but they are actively looking to see what can be changed.

I think gamers should appreciate that even if they aren't fans of the game or the developers (Arkane) because it's good to have clear non-evasive ring around the rosy PR answers, and having a truthful to the point statement.
 
DGrayson

DGrayson

Mod Team and Bat Team
Staff Member
I think his reply still doesn't address the real issue. It's not that we have spotty internet or we live somewhere with no connection. We don't want always online forced on us for single player only content. It's that simple. Why is it there? 🤔 to harvest our data and sell it? Give me a compelling reason why it even exists.
 
GHG

GHG

Gold Member
DGrayson said:
I think his reply still doesn't address the real issue. It's not that we have spotty internet or we live somewhere with no connection. We don't want always online forced on us for single player only content. It's that simple. Why is it there? 🤔 to harvest our data and sell it? Give me a compelling reason why it even exists.
Click to expand...

There was a post in the preview thread stating its for collecting player data to "improve the experience" but I can't help but think that's 100% bullshit considering most games do this exact thing now while both allowing it to be opt-in and for the game to be fully functional offline.
 
Eddie-Griffin

Eddie-Griffin

Banned
DGrayson said:
I think his reply still doesn't address the real issue. It's not that we have spotty internet or we live somewhere with no connection. We don't want always online forced on us for single player only content. It's that simple. Why is it there? 🤔 to harvest our data and sell it? Give me a compelling reason why it even exists.
Click to expand...

How companies usually answer this is "we thought it would be for the benefit of gamers" and then when asked how they tell you to look at that squirrel climb that tree, and when you look back they are gone.

In other words, I don't expect him to ever reveal the reason why the idea was ever implemented. But at the very least, it seems like they maybe, possibly, are genuinely looking into turning it off so that's something. Assuming they are being truthful.
 
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Kvally

Kvally

Member
"It allows us to do some accessibility stuff," Smith said. "It allows us for telemetry, like - if everybody's falling off ladders and dying, holy shit that shows up. And so we can go and tweak the ladder code. There are reasons we set out to do that that are not insidious."
 
feynoob

feynoob

Banned
DGrayson said:
I think his reply still doesn't address the real issue. It's not that we have spotty internet or we live somewhere with no connection. We don't want always online forced on us for single player only content. It's that simple. Why is it there? 🤔 to harvest our data and sell it? Give me a compelling reason why it even exists.
Click to expand...
Harvesting data, devs being out of touch from reality, etc.
 
Coloress_Kafka

Coloress_Kafka

Member
It’s weird that they can’t just record telemetry and get that data uploaded at a later date. It’s not like many people play offline games NEVER connected online they just don’t like to be forced to do it every time.
 
Kvally

Kvally

Member
Coloress_Kafka said:
It’s weird that they can’t just record telemetry and get that data uploaded at a later date. It’s not like many people play offline games NEVER connected online they just don’t like to be forced to do it every time.
Click to expand...
True, but maybe they wanted it real time so they didn't have to wait to address it. But they could have just decided from the start to have "opt out" as an option when you start up the game. If I want to fall of a ladder endlessly, I should be able to fall off a ladder endlessly :)
 
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DarkMage619

DarkMage619

$MSFT
DGrayson said:
I think his reply still doesn't address the real issue. It's not that we have spotty internet or we live somewhere with no connection. We don't want always online forced on us for single player only content. It's that simple. Why is it there? 🤔 to harvest our data and sell it? Give me a compelling reason why it even exists.
Click to expand...
I always thought that the game supports a drop in drop out multiplayer. If that is true how does that work if your system is disconnected from the internet? In addition how could item duping be stopped unless a specific mode is created that could never be used online? Perhaps they'll make a mode similar to how Diablo 2 Resurrected offline mode works. I had no idea such a large group of players did not want to play this with friends. I wonder how those numbers compare to people who do want multiplayer.
 
Lunarorbit

Lunarorbit

Gold Member
Kvally said:
"It allows us to do some accessibility stuff," Smith said. "It allows us for telemetry, like - if everybody's falling off ladders and dying, holy shit that shows up. And so we can go and tweak the ladder code. There are reasons we set out to do that that are not insidious."
Click to expand...
It's not that I don't care if my info is sold but.... honestly at this point with almost 7 billion people on the earth I don't give a shit.

I love getting my ps report at the end of the year from Sony showing what I played and how long. I like the gow and elden ring tweets that they drop showing the most used weapon or spells.

It's only annoying when EA or ubisoft sets up a barrier to sign in at the beginning of a game. Their UI for it is just so intrusive. But at the end of the day I still logged in to ass creed odyssey thru ubisoft.
 
Puscifer

Puscifer

Member
DGrayson said:
I think his reply still doesn't address the real issue. It's not that we have spotty internet or we live somewhere with no connection. We don't want always online forced on us for single player only content. It's that simple. Why is it there? 🤔 to harvest our data and sell it? Give me a compelling reason why it even exists.
Click to expand...
Let's also talk about Diablo 3, which has some serious components tied to always online like enemy spawning. To this day there's parts of diablo 3 that'll cripple the most powerful systems because it tries to load in a ton of enemies in the game as fast the server can get it to you, that's some deeply embedded non-sense!
 
F

Feel Like I'm On 42

Member
DGrayson said:
I think his reply still doesn't address the real issue. It's not that we have spotty internet or we live somewhere with no connection. We don't want always online forced on us for single player only content. It's that simple. Why is it there? 🤔 to harvest our data and sell it? Give me a compelling reason why it even exists.
Click to expand...

THIS
 
Eddie-Griffin

Eddie-Griffin

Banned
Liamario said:
We listen? Why was it there in the first place!
Does Microsoft not remember the Xbox One launch!
Click to expand...

Red Falls was in development before the acquisition. I would say the reason why they are considering removing it is because Xbox does remember the PRE launch.
 
digital_ghost

digital_ghost

Member
Rush2112 said:
These guys made Prey and Dishonored. Rocksteady made Arkham city. now look at ‘em. because money that’s why. Let’s make some Fortnite lookin shit guys because kids like it.
Click to expand...
I'd say a remake of Arkham Asylum and city in unreal engine 5 would be sweet. Though I don't trust rocksteady to not fuck it up after Suicide squad.
 
ShadyAcshuns

ShadyAcshuns

Member
Whoever gave the go ahead to move forward with their original idea should be fired. Makes much more sense to provide an optional online mode that gives incentives to connect, while allowing the game to be played offline. Doesn't take rocket science to figure that stuff out.
 
Last edited:
NickFire

NickFire

Member
DGrayson said:
I think his reply still doesn't address the real issue. It's not that we have spotty internet or we live somewhere with no connection. We don't want always online forced on us for single player only content. It's that simple. Why is it there? 🤔 to harvest our data and sell it? Give me a compelling reason why it even exists.
Click to expand...
If the success metric involves MAU's, playtime, etc., don't they need an online connection to track people who play as secondary accounts on the home console of the GP subscriber who initially downloads it?
 
clarky

clarky

Gold Member
DGrayson said:
I think his reply still doesn't address the real issue. It's not that we have spotty internet or we live somewhere with no connection. We don't want always online forced on us for single player only content. It's that simple. Why is it there? 🤔 to harvest our data and sell it? Give me a compelling reason why it even exists.
Click to expand...
I thought it was because its a game like Destiny, world events, matchmaking, loot handled server side etc etc. Sounds like thats not the case so yeah, its bollocks then
Take it out.

Looking forward to the game though looks really fun.
 
O

OZ9000

Banned
DGrayson said:
I think his reply still doesn't address the real issue. It's not that we have spotty internet or we live somewhere with no connection. We don't want always online forced on us for single player only content. It's that simple. Why is it there? 🤔 to harvest our data and sell it? Give me a compelling reason why it even exists.
Click to expand...
My internet occasionally loses connection, forcing me to reset my router before I can get back on. Online only is the worst trend to embrace modern day gaming.
 
oji-san

oji-san

Banned
I don't like being online on single player but i respect their response not being hardheaded, better to fix it then ignoring what players want.
 
Flutta

Flutta

Banned
DGrayson said:
I think his reply still doesn't address the real issue. It's not that we have spotty internet or we live somewhere with no connection. We don't want always online forced on us for single player only content. It's that simple. Why is it there? 🤔 to harvest our data and sell it? Give me a compelling reason why it even exists.
Click to expand...
Think you already have the answer you seek and that's why they don't outright say it :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Also from what i can tell there isn't much enthusiasm surrounding this game so any "good will" attempt at making gamers interested in this game is a plus for them.
 
nemiroff

nemiroff

Gold Member
I for one don't give a fuck if my games send telemetry data to the mothership. With that said, "always online" should be a "connect if possible" and it shouldn't prevent you from playing the game if it can't connect.
 
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ZoukGalaxy

ZoukGalaxy

Member
They listen my ass and this answer is pure bullshit.

May The Fourth Be With You Do It GIF by Star Wars


No SP should have "always online" requirement ever.
 
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j0hnnix

j0hnnix

Member
Kvally said:
"It allows us to do some accessibility stuff," Smith said. "It allows us for telemetry, like - if everybody's falling off ladders and dying, holy shit that shows up. And so we can go and tweak the ladder code. There are reasons we set out to do that that are not insidious."
Click to expand...
fucking ladders. so tired of their OP abilities. Get rid of them. lol
 
BbMajor7th

BbMajor7th

Member
Devs always 'listening' but never bloody learning. You hear the same thing about shady MTX, missing features, bugs, etc. as though these companies had no idea it would piss people off. More likely it's: "Honestly, we thought we'd try our luck. We've seen other games get away with it and we took a gamble. It's a calculated risk and this time it didn't pay off; we'll walk it back for now and figure out how to sneak it into the next game."
 
M

Moriarty1889

Member
Good they are actually worki;g on this. It was a mistake and utterly stupid to force an internet connection for a single player mode. No game should require this shite. Hopefully devs are seeing the pushback against this and go back to making proper offline single player game modes.
 
Shifty1897

Shifty1897

Member
Kvally said:
"It allows us to do some accessibility stuff," Smith said. "It allows us for telemetry, like - if everybody's falling off ladders and dying, holy shit that shows up. And so we can go and tweak the ladder code. There are reasons we set out to do that that are not insidious."
Click to expand...
It's a small portion of users who won't play while connected to the internet. Let me write three lines of code for Arkane's telemetry that will solve his problem for them vs how they do it now:

If (Test-Connection backend.arkane.com) {
sendTelemetry($gameplayData)
}
 
Fuz

Fuz

Banned
BbMajor7th said:
Devs always 'listening' but never bloody learning. You hear the same thing about shady MTX, missing features, bugs, etc. as though these companies had no idea it would piss people off. More likely it's: "Honestly, we thought we'd try our luck. We've seen other games get away with it and we took a gamble. It's a calculated risk and this time it didn't pay off; we'll walk it back for now and figure out how to sneak it into the next game."
Click to expand...

*​

 
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